Jinjer 59: Cooking with Prepared Spice Mix

[livinginthelight]

13 minutes ago, viii said:

Is it just me or does this sound shady to anybody else? Just the way she phrased it about "I'm sure they had the best intentions" makes me wonder. 

I think she's keeping wall up because she sees us as possibly wanting to take away her faith. Which she is very protective of. So she's a bit cautious about us.

[noseybutt]

6 hours ago, Coconut Flan said:

Jinger was directly asked about FJ in this interview:

https://pagesix.com/2023/01/30/jinger-duggar-on-freebritney-i-can-relate-to-pop-stars-pain/

No hard feelings.

It’s a very gracious response.

I am a zero point Calvinist with nothing but disdain for MacArthur’s theology. But I will repeat what I said earlier in this thread: Jinger looks good. She’s carrying herself well. 

[AprilQuilt]

22 minutes ago, livinginthelight said:

I think she's keeping wall up because she sees us as possibly wanting to take away her faith. Which she is very protective of. So she's a bit cautious about us.

this, and I think that some people can be quite narrow and prescriptive about what kind of life Jinger would have to lead before they approved of it.

Personally, I don't want these people to remain in a cult: I want them free from controlling headships, from financial, physical, emotional, and sexual abuse. If they retain their faith - which I totally support of course - I'd want them to practice it in a manner that causes no harm to anyone, including themselves. Beyond that I don't think I get to dictate too much - I don't have to like them, I don't need them to be in any way relatable to me. It's none of my business. But I think some people in the general snarkdom are really specific about how they think Jinger's life should be, making her as much 'their property' as her fans would. In that sense, they aren't really wishing her freedom. They're just prescribing something else. I see how that may not be of much value to her.

[sableduck]

I listened to the audiobook, or most of it, on a long drive today.

just a few things(I need to sit down and read it):

Gothard is evil. Jinger calls him such.

The title of the book is a riff on FreeJinger.  She does appreciate that people cared and has clearly read here.  She just feels that people were rooting for her to completely leave her faith and become a big city gal.  And it weirded her out a little. But she recognized that it came mostly from a place of concern and caring.

She danced around it a bit, but reading between the lines she blames some of Josh’s behavior on the way Gothard influenced their parents’ attitudes towards sex.  She is clear that it was not a healthy way to grow up.  Jinger hasn’t spoken to Josh in 2 years and basically says he is a liar and a hypocrite, only playing the Christian role for his own gain. She does not mention Anna.

She is careful to to not directly say anything against her parents but is critical of aspects of their raising, without saying it. For instance she talks about how they didn’t have friends growing up, or go anywhere without a sibling or parent, and she never learned how to talk to people or make friends.  She struggled with that greatly after marriage, and says that it was because she had been so isolated from more than superficial relationships by her parents.

She really, really does not like Bill Gothard. She spoke about the assault accusations, has read the websites, and is not at all surprised.  Also, did I mention she does not like him and basically thinks he’s nothing more than a charlatan who destroys lives.

Edited January 31, 2023 by sableduck

[AprilQuilt]

oh, one more thing! A great ambition of mine is for the Duggars and their ilk to stop using disposable plates at every meal. I'm begging! The planet is on fire! The oceans are all clogged up with polystyrene! And these megafamilies don't even recycle. It kills me, the selfishness. Whatever "freedom" looks like, I demand that it include a 24-piece dinner service.

Edited January 31, 2023 by AprilQuilt

[JermajestyDuggar]

I knew she would blame Gothard way more than her parents. But damn, I wish so much she would come out and say her parents really messed up her life. Not just Gothard. 

[noseybutt]

26 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I knew she would blame Gothard way more than her parents. But damn, I wish so much she would come out and say her parents really messed up her life. Not just Gothard. 

I think this is incredibly hard for religious people because of the honor your father and mother teaching. It may seem like hair splitting, but denouncing harmful and false teaching is one thing, denouncing your parents as people quite another.

[SassyPants]

The Vuolos really are putting distance between themselves and the Duggars’ beliefs. Funny, they’d be nowhere near where they are without the Duggar name.

[JermajestyDuggar]

9 minutes ago, noseybutt said:

I think this is incredibly hard for religious people because of the honor your father and mother teaching. It may seem like hair splitting, but denouncing harmful and false teaching is one thing, denouncing your parents as people quite another.

I know. I’m not even fundie but I can have a hard time with completely disagreeing with some of the ways I was raised. And I rarely ever bring this stuff up with my parents. 

[WatchingTheTireFireBurn]

If she hasn't talked to Josh in 2 years...

What does that line up with? Do any you have a sense of what was going on between 2-3yrs ago that would make her no longer tall to him?

Moving to CA?

When he got arrested? 

 

Seems like a curiously specific time frame. Rather than saying I hadn't talked to him in a long time or we drifted apart before everything came out or something along those lines.

[Coconut Flan]

Josh was arrested in April, 2021.  That's close to two years ago.  The Duggars apparently knew the arrest was coming so Jinger probably heard that, too.

[QuiverFullofBooks]

I read the book. TL, DR: Gothard is a creep and a false prophet. The one anecdote that I found surprising was that the older Duggar girls once were hanging around at the mall and they tried on a blond wig and said “You’re ready for headquarters!” meaning that Gothard would find it hot 🤢

[JermajestyDuggar]

26 minutes ago, QuiverFullofBooks said:

I read the book. TL, DR: Gothard is a creep and a false prophet. The one anecdote that I found surprising was that the older Duggar girls once were hanging around at the mall and they tried on a blond wig and said “You’re ready for headquarters!” meaning that Gothard would find it hot 🤢

The fact that literally everyone knew Gothard’s type and did fuck all about it is so typical but still so disturbing. 

[purple_summer]

4 hours ago, livinginthelight said:

I think she's keeping wall up because she sees us as possibly wanting to take away her faith. Which she is very protective of. So she's a bit cautious about us.

When I was first really starting my recovery/deprogramming there were a lot of people who wanted me to abandon faith altogether. Friends, a therapist, internet strangers. It didn’t matter that it ultimately wasn’t a solution for a number of reasons, it felt like an easy answer for people. There are plenty of reasons why people don’t believe, or choose to stop believing. I have my reasons for maintaining my faith. I don’t feel the need to advertise or “recruit” but there are some nonbelievers that use the same tactics they shame religious people for. 
 

I’ve gotten pretty used to ignoring certain topics/posters/discussions around here. But there are definitely moments that are really uncomfortable. Part of why I post so irregularly. 

[Kiki03910]

10 hours ago, SassyPants said:

The Vuolos really are putting distance between themselves and the Duggars’ beliefs. Funny, they’d be nowhere near where they are without the Duggar name.

I totally agree. But Jinger might have never been near Jeremy without the Duggar name either. I mean, he's a smarmy, insufferable fuckace, but quite possibly better than what she would've gotten otherwise. God, what a depressing thought.

7 hours ago, purple_summer said:

When I was first really starting my recovery/deprogramming there were a lot of people who wanted me to abandon faith altogether. Friends, a therapist, internet strangers. It didn’t matter that it ultimately wasn’t a solution for a number of reasons, it felt like an easy answer for people. There are plenty of reasons why people don’t believe, or choose to stop believing. I have my reasons for maintaining my faith. I don’t feel the need to advertise or “recruit” but there are some nonbelievers that use the same tactics they shame religious people for. 
 

I’ve gotten pretty used to ignoring certain topics/posters/discussions around here. But there are definitely moments that are really uncomfortable. Part of why I post so irregularly. 

I'm an atheist and a very opinionated person (though I strive mightily to be kinder and more understanding). I hope that you are in a comfortable and safe place and wish only the best for you, and for others like you.

[Smee]

10 hours ago, WatchingTheTireFireBurn said:

If she hasn't talked to Josh in 2 years...

What does that line up with? Do any you have a sense of what was going on between 2-3yrs ago that would make her no longer tall to him?

Moving to CA?

When he got arrested? 

 

Seems like a curiously specific time frame. Rather than saying I hadn't talked to him in a long time or we drifted apart before everything came out or something along those lines.

When was the car lot raid? That would be over 2 years ago now. It took a while for him to be arrested but if she was questioned at all during the investigation or even just heard through family what kind of arrest was coming that could have been the moment she realised she wanted nothing more to do with him, ever.

I expect if Jinger does still read here from time to time, or has in the past few years, she wouldn’t be impressed with our distaste for Jeremy. I think there are more of us (myself included) who find him a smarmy patronising patriarchal douche with a saviour complex who makes Jinger’s decisions for her and is probably abusive at least financially & spiritually, than there are users who consider atheism the only valid form of freedom. “Be free of IBLP” is something Jinger has come to agree with but “be free from the ‘headship’ of the guy you married and had kids with and presumably love” is different. So I can see why she’d say we had good intentions (wanting people out of fundamentalism) without ever suggesting we’re right about anything.

[AprilQuilt]

The car lot was raided in 2019, so she would have had quite a long window to discover and accept that something terrible really had gone on, and to be done with him by the time he was actually arrested.

I suspect that for all the sisters he abused, Josh's arrest was a really pivotal moment. It confirmed what he was capable of, and the nature of what had happened to them. If they were carrying trauma due to his treatment of them, which their parents minimised, this would have been the moment that validated them and might have given them more confidence to stand up for themselves. 

[Cam]

8 minutes ago, AprilQuilt said:

The car lot was raided in 2019, so she would have had quite a long window to discover and accept that something terrible really had gone on, and to be done with him by the time he was actually arrested.

I suspect that for all the sisters he abused, Josh's arrest was a really pivotal moment. It confirmed what he was capable of, and the nature of what had happened to them. If they were carrying trauma due to his treatment of them, which their parents minimised, this would have been the moment that validated them and might have given them more confidence to stand up for themselves. 

Well said. I agree with this 100%.

 

I just looked to see when I joined FJ. It was Oct 2019. So apparently it was Josh’s arrest that propelled me here. It was a very good feeling, a relief, like finding a waterfall in the desert, to finally find others who saw Duggars for what they were, because up till then, I’d only known people who were fans. 

Imo, I think FJ planted a seed in Jinger’s mind. She may say FJ was not the answer for her, but it definitely raised questions to make her wonder about the religious beliefs she was conditioned from birth to blindly believe. FreeJinger was a signal out in the world indicating other trains of thought existed. In a sea of 14, 16, 19 children, FJ singled Jinger out as having potential beyond being a fundieforlife. On some level, she had to ask herself, “Why me out of all of us?” Whether she wants to give credit to the site or not, FreeJinger was a catalyst in her life. 

 

[Bastet]

1 hour ago, Cam said:

Well said. I agree with this 100%.

 

I just looked to see when I joined FJ. It was Oct 2019. So apparently it was Josh’s arrest that propelled me here. It was a very good feeling, a relief, like finding a waterfall in the desert, to finally find others who saw Duggars for what they were, because up till then, I’d only known people who were fans. 

Imo, I think FJ planted a seed in Jinger’s mind. She may say FJ was not the answer for her, but it definitely raised questions to make her wonder about the religious beliefs she was conditioned from birth to blindly believe. FreeJinger was a signal out in the world indicating other trains of thought existed. In a sea of 14, 16, 19 children, FJ singled Jinger out as having potential beyond being a fundieforlife. On some level, she had to ask herself, “Why me out of all of us?” Whether she wants to give credit to the site or not, FreeJinger was a catalyst in her life. 

 

  Probably true, but other paths likely didn’t feel real until Jeremy made them so. One barrier to her development is that she may not have gotten to deeply know anyone who is not committed to patriarchy. For most of us possibilities are represented by people. 

Edited February 1, 2023 by Bastet

[Cam]

I read that Jinger says in her book she was/is closest to Jessa, partly due to age, I think she said they’re 13 mos. apart. That, to me, is a big reason Jessa was instrumental in fixing Jinj up with Jeremy. Jinger trusted Jessa, and Jessa saw couple potential between Jinj and Jer. With all the hang-ups Jinger had from growing up Duggar, she needed Jessa to nudge her along, and Jessa knew that. 
 

 

[SassyPants]

1 hour ago, Cam said:

I read that Jinger says in her book she was/is closest to Jessa, partly due to age, I think she said they’re 13 mos. apart. That, to me, is a big reason Jessa was instrumental in fixing Jinj up with Jeremy. Jinger trusted Jessa, and Jessa saw couple potential between Jinj and Jer. With all the hang-ups Jinger had from growing up Duggar, she needed Jessa to nudge her along, and Jessa knew that. 
 

 

I wonder what Jessa thinks about the trajectory of Jinger’s life vs her own current path?

[JermajestyDuggar]

28 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

I wonder what Jessa thinks about the trajectory of Jinger’s life vs her own current path?

I bet she’s jealous of all the attention and money Jinger’s  getting from a book. While Jessa stays at home in AR and toes the line for JB. 

[Jinder Roles]

Hey y'all long time no see. I popped in to discuss Jinger's book and press tour since it's everywhere. 

 I have no expectations or desires about Jinger expressing her faith but I'm still irked by how the media is covering this story. While I think it's good that Jinger has reflected on ILBP upbringing and is speaking her truth, it's annoying that the most media outlets won't do the research on her current beliefs and affiliations with MacArthur. It would be way more balanced coverage to also bring up those associations. I'm just worried the audience will see Jinger (and Jeremy) as folks with no more dangerous beliefs when that's not the case. It may be beating a dead horse but the "Statement on Social Justice" that Jeremy co-authored and signed, the GCC sexual abuse-coverup, the proud flouting of COVID restrictions - not to mention them hanging out with questionable people like Babylon Bee owner Kyle Mann - are evidence that they are dangerous folks who just blend it better.  

TL/DR: I wish there was more nuance in how the media is covering Jinger's book, especially since the topic revolves around harmful Christian organizations and beliefs. 

[JMO]

I've watched all the interviews and read all the articles.  I've sat with this a bit.  I think this is the closest that we are getting to a tell all and the daytime talk show circuit is definitely reacting to it as such.  I think that was hard for me, and probably most of us, to see it this way since it isn't salacious and she hasn't rejected everything, she's still very Jesus centered.  Some interesting things that have stuck out to me include:

1) She hasn't talked to Josh in 2 yrs.  Did she just ignore him at weddings, etc?  I can't remember if there were any celebrations from which they were markedly absent and we chalked it up to the distance. 

2) When she was a teen there were a lot of us that commented on her appearance and felt that she may have an eating disorder.  Guess we can pick a lot up from a scripted TV show. 

3) There was that whole episode after she got married when she was tearful and afraid to discuss her pants wearing with Mich.  It seemed weird at the time.  Now, it's obvious that not only she had previously believed that pants wearing was a terrible sin, but that there was probably more to the conversation that she had with her parents than put on the show (she talks about this extensively in the Tamron Hall interview). 

4) This makes the decision they made to not have her family visit in the year after they were married to be more and more of a calculated decision and not just about sexy time. 

5) I think that until her parents die we won't see a more extensive book/interview cycle from any of the kids.  They all talk about their love for their parents, but usually single out Mich on a regular basis.  For all her faults she seems like a mom who tried to parent with love for at least the older girls.  

6) Jinger deflects questions of who still follows Gothard, aside from her parents.  It seems to me that the older girls are the ones that have broken with his teachings, possibly due to their husbands but also, I wonder if Josh and his abuse of them and the subsequent fall out that they were all very much affected by influenced it. 

Just some thoughts. 

[SassyPants]

IMO, as long as there is no abuse of the participants involved, I am not anti-religion. I also think that if any of the Duggar offspring decide to outright reject religion, we will never hear about it.