Jinjer 59: Cooking with Prepared Spice Mix

[marmalade]

1 hour ago, Pecansforeveryone said:

 Jinger, Jessa, and maybe Jill almost certainly wouldn't be in the marriages they are. Jeremy wouldn't have put up with JB's nonsense for a non-famous Jinger of that I am certain.. They would be very poor indeed. 

Definitely include Jill here. She only met DWreck because he was a prayer partner with her disgusting father who set them up. And DWreck only knew of JIm Bob Duggar because he was a "Christian" on TV.

Edited January 20, 2023 by marmalade
added stuff

[Bluebirdbluebell]

On 1/19/2023 at 1:12 PM, Cam said:

So Jinger and Jill made bigger strides than their other sibs to distance themselves from their father’s stranglehold on them but none of the male Duggar siblings seem to want to step away from the fold.

Jeremy and Derick are the least fundie spouses. Derick wasn't raised fundie at all. All of the Duggar boys married women who are also fundie and most of them are IBLP.

[livinginthelight]

5 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

It makes me wonder where this whole family would be if they never got a show on TLC. So many of them would be so screwed. And very poor. 

I think there wouldn't be as many kids. The pregnancies became part of their shtick. I think JB is smart enough, and selfish enough, to have stopped having kids if it wasn't profitable for him to keep having Michelle pop them out.

[JermajestyDuggar]

Just now, livinginthelight said:

I think there wouldn't be as many kids. The pregnancies became part of their shtick. I think JB is smart enough, and selfish enough, to have stopped having kids if it wasn't profitable for him to keep having Michelle pop them out.

But the TLC special started when she was pregnant with 14 I think. So they already had a ton before the TLC special. I figure he would have found a way to make at least some money off of his huge family. Like a Christian book about their family or maybe some speaking engagements and singing in churches for donations. 

[Bluebirdbluebell]

MacArthur is a major step up from Gothard and still really bad. He's incredibly misogynistic, homophobic. He also opposes secular counciling and treating anxiety and depression.  Here's a link to one of the many sources on MacArthur's views on anxiety from his own website. Here's an excerpt from the post:

Quote

Even with its multitude of contradictory theories and questionable therapies, psychology has successfully altered how the world thinks about and responds to the problems of life. Tragically, setting aside its infinite spiritual resources, the church of Jesus Christ embraced this revolution of humanistic thinking.

As for Josh,  I watched a video of Jeremy's where he talked about Josh. Jeremy made it clear that he thought Josh was making Jesus look bad. He also thinks that a true Christian would confess and repent of his sin. Since Josh is not admitting his guilt, Jeremy think is unrepentant and therefore not a Christian.

[marmalade]

Jinger also said in the People video that Smuggar needed to repent. So, she's not buying it, either.

[Bluebirdbluebell]

26 minutes ago, marmalade said:

Jinger also said in the People video that Smuggar needed to repent. So, she's not buying it, either.

My point was that lines up with what Jeremy said. It's very possible they share beliefs, but she's also echoing what Jeremy said.

[marmalade]

3 minutes ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

My point was that lines up with what Jeremy said. It's very possible they share beliefs, but she's also echoing what Jeremy said.

I think it's a pretty standard response from ANY Christian. I imagine that if you asked various members of the Duggar family and spouses you'd largely get this response. 

Not Meech though. That's her prince. 

[Vivi_music]

On 1/19/2023 at 11:28 PM, purple_summer said:

I don’t expect Jinger or Jill to fully denounce Michelle. Speaking from personal experience, I know that my mom allowed me to be in situations where I was subject to spiritual/emotional abuse, but she was also in those situations herself. She was victimized by the same teachings and led to believe she was doing what was best for me. I don’t excuse her past mistakes, but I forgive her. For what it’s worth, my mother does have quite a bit of remorse. 
 

People are complicated.

I agree.

 

The relationship with one's parents is one of the hardest to confront and mend. A lot of people, even raised secular can't even do it. It's hard to have all those negative feelings inside you (disapointment, anger, etc.) yet still want their support and approval. It's a bit of a contradiction inside your head. Also, even if one grew up in an abusive household or abusive situation (physical, psychological or spiritual), well despite all that.... you can often feel affection for them despite it all. Feelings are weird and not easy to navigate.

All of this to day, I don't fault Jinger nor Jill to want to keep Michelle in their lives despite realizing she was part of this harmful cult.

Edited January 21, 2023 by Vivi_music
spelling

[Smee]

9 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

But the TLC special started when she was pregnant with 14 I think. So they already had a ton before the TLC special. I figure he would have found a way to make at least some money off of his huge family. Like a Christian book about their family or maybe some speaking engagements and singing in churches for donations. 

She was pregnant with #15 (special was “14 kids and pregnant again”) so I doubt TLC was the driving factor in the pregnancies. They would have lived in poverty with their 19 children but I doubt that would have motivated them to stop at 15 or 16 or whatever. At that point, the parentification of the older girls was in full swing and what’s one more mouth to feed?

I must say I’m pleasantly surprised by that video. Jinger was far more clear than I expected her to be about her childhood being damaging. And almost scoffing at the ridiculous levels of control in courtship, so it sounds like her daughters will at least be able to date and kiss and have proper conversations with their future partners. As with the Dillard boys when Israel started school, once again my hope is for the next generation.

On a personal note, I’m also interested to see where her 30s take her… when my ex-husband and I first met with our marriage counsellor she said something about how for a lot of women “your 20s are where you figure out who you are and your 30s are where you stop giving a fuck what other people think about that”. I don’t ordinarily buy into generalisations like that, but I also found in my own life that I’ve done more deconstructing and making tough choices (like leaving my husband) in the past couple of years than in the entire decade prior. And a LOT of shedding of internalised misogyny and feelings of “selfishness”, a lot of letting go of the possibility that someone will see me as the bad guy. From how Jinger talked about her conversations with her parents (about wearing pants), it sounded like she and Jeremy were both involved in those conversations, as a united front. But now that she knows she can disagree with JB&M without the world crumbling, will there be any niggling disagreement with Jeremy that she might have the courage to raise? 

[Cam]

19 hours ago, closetcagebaby said:

I have to say I really don’t mind that Jinger has chosen to monetize her public persona, especially given that she has decided to keep her kids out of it. Her image was monetized without her consent for basically her entire life and she wasn’t given the tools or education to make a career for herself. If she feels like she’s in control of it now, well, I’m okay with her securing the People magazine bag. 

I totally agree. I think one big reason Jinger keeps her kids’ lives private is to give the message to her dad that she would never exploit them the way he did with his kids. I have to wonder how JB feels about Jinger getting all this attention and cashing in on the Duggar brand and he doesn’t get a single say-so (or one red cent) in any of it. I bet Jinger feels some satisfaction about that.

 

18 hours ago, SassyPants said:

The only problem I have with that is she is monetizing her personal life because she doesn’t have any other way to make a living. She lacks choice and to sell one’s private moments and thoughts just seems so exploitative. She isn’t playing a role or using her expertise to make make money, she’s selling her private life experiences and thoughts. It’s just gross, particularly because she, at least at this point, can not make significant money in any other way. JB and Michelle Duggar are among the worst parents, ever.

I don’t have any problem with her choosing to write the book. I’ve read over 200 autobiographies, both by famous and average people and one thing many say is they want to tell their story and not have the media or another person tell it. They don’t want someone else’s version of who they are to be how the public defines them. I don’t really see Jinger’s motivation as only money. She wants to prove she’s separated herself from her father’s beliefs. She doesn’t want the only image of herself out there to be from 19KAC and CO. 

 Having read so many autobiographies, I can say there are quite a lot of incredibly private moments people share. Some are quite detailed, intimate and shocking. One is “Unspeakable: Surviving my Childhood and Finding My Voice” by Jessica Willis Fisher (of TLCs Willis Clan). Another extremely revealing book is the best selling “I’m Glad My Mom Died” by Jeannette McCurdy (of Disney’s iCarly fame). Jinger’s book will be tame in comparison.

 

Edited January 21, 2023 by Cam

[JermajestyDuggar]

I admit it will bother me if she paints her father as the bad guy and her mother as the good one. Because her mother was fully on board with everything. And she is the same sex parent. She would have the biggest influence on Jinger as to how to be a woman in their cult. Her mother is the one who explained away that Jinger didn’t want to live in a city. She just wanted to live by a Walmart. She was tamping down her dreams and growth from the start. 

Edited January 21, 2023 by JermajestyDuggar

[Cults-r-us]

12 hours ago, marmalade said:

I think it's a pretty standard response from ANY Christian. I imagine that if you asked various members of the Duggar family and spouses you'd largely get this response. 

Not Meech though. That's her prince. 

Although I remember reading (who knows what is true) Meech disgust with Josh put her at loggerheads with JB at His cheating scandal.

[JDuggs]

24 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Her mother is the one who explained away that Jinger didn’t want to live in a city. She just wanted to live by a Walmart. She was tamping down her dreams and growth from the start. 

I thought that was Jill or was Michelle part of it too?

[JermajestyDuggar]

9 minutes ago, JDuggs said:

I thought that was Jill or was Michelle part of it too?

I remember it as Michelle saying that. 
 

Here’s an old article quoting the 2012 episode where Michelle says it: 

https://www.inquisitr.com/5701448/jinger-duggar-michelle

Edited January 21, 2023 by JermajestyDuggar

[JDuggs]

I thought Jill was talking about Jinger working on her contentment and that she really didn’t want to live in a big city. I thought it was on a talking head on the show. I don’t think Michelle said that on the show. Radar was quoting her from an exclusive interview. Maybe the whole “big city means close to a Walmart” was the family story that was often repeated.

[freethemall]

I'm catching up all the news and discussion of this book, have we discussed her thoughts about FJ? Even the book title seems to allude to the community. From www.yahoo.com/amphtml/entertainment/jinger-duggar-becoming-free-indeed-173001176.html:

Free Jinger’ Movement

"The curators of the website saw in me a girl they assumed didn't have the good life because she didn't have unbridled freedom,” Jinger wrote. “They thought, 'If this girl could break free from her family's ultraconservative rules — if she could wear what she wanted, date who she wanted, pursue the career she wanted, and drink what she wanted — then she would be happy.'" At the end of the first chapter of Becoming Free Indeed, Jinger deemed the movement “wrong.”

And

"I've come to see that unfettered freedom does not produce the good life. In the end, it often leads to more bondage. Why? Because it puts me in charge of my life, and I am not the best judge of what is best for me,” the Matchbox Coffee collaborator wrote. “If given limitless options and the responsibility of figuring out what is going to make me truly happy, I struggle to commit to anything.”

Girl, we wanted you to have an education and choices to explore beyond being tied to a controlling man and popping out babies your whole life. To develop the judgement needed for choices beyond what you wear, rather than looking for figureheads who force a black and white view of the world. 

Let's hope she still has a lot of maturity ahead of her and not simply writing off people who thought she had more potential than so far she has ended up wasting.

[JermajestyDuggar]

32 minutes ago, JDuggs said:

I thought Jill was talking about Jinger working on her contentment and that she really didn’t want to live in a big city. I thought it was on a talking head on the show. I don’t think Michelle said that on the show. Radar was quoting her from an exclusive interview. Maybe the whole “big city means close to a Walmart” was the family story that was often repeated.

Well we could pretty much guarantee Jill was parroting her parents because then Michelle said something very similar in an interview. No matter when she said it, she tamped down Jinger’s want to move to a large city. 

[HeartsAFundie]

1 hour ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Well we could pretty much guarantee Jill was parroting her parents because then Michelle said something very similar in an interview. No matter when she said it, she tamped down Jinger’s want to move to a large city. 

I had a somewhat different take about Jill warning Jinger to work on her contentment, especially since we have all witnessed Jill's own evolvement.  I thought it to be more of a covert warning between sisters.  In other words: "Don't complain, honey, because nobody cares, it won't do any good anyway and for us this is as good as it gets. We're not allowed to want any more than this position in life God has given us. So just shut up and deal."     

Oh, the irony.  

Edited January 21, 2023 by HeartsAFundie

[freethemall]

On 1/18/2023 at 11:12 PM, GuineaPigCourtship said:

 She seems like she would be a pretty decent speaker if she had a larger vocabulary. 

I was thinking that too, you can see she's gotten better where she was and doesn't call everything "neat". However, she called things "sweet" maybe 5 times in a row. 

I'm guessing she collaborated with a ghostwriter on the book.

1 hour ago, HeartsAFundie said:

I had a somewhat different take about Jill warning Jinger to work on her contentment, especially since we have all witnessed Jill's own evolvement.  I thought it to be more of a covert warning between sisters.  In other words: "Don't complain, honey, because nobody cares, it won't do any good anyway and for us this is as good as it gets. We're not allowed to want any more than this position in life God has given us. So just shut up and deal."     

Oh, the irony.  

That or more like a reminder about the script they're supposed to be following, which at the time made her sound like the most committed to those ideals but in retrospect shows she was always careful and cognizant of saying the right thing.

[Cam]

36 minutes ago, freethemall said:

That or more like a reminder about the script they're supposed to be following, which at the time made her sound like the most committed to those ideals but in retrospect shows she was always careful and cognizant of saying the right thing.

This. And to add, Jill was careful and cognizant of saying the right thing *while the cameras were rolling*. She new the “Duggar brand” was her dad’s #1 priority and projecting that image was of utmost importance. Who knows, he may have scolded them off camera if they spoke about non-brand ideas. Jill might have made her comment as a way to protect Jinger from being corrected by JB later. It was all about looking pious and pure.

[Vivi_music]

3 hours ago, Cam said:

This. And to add, Jill was careful and cognizant of saying the right thing *while the cameras were rolling*. She new the “Duggar brand” was her dad’s #1 priority and projecting that image was of utmost importance. Who knows, he may have scolded them off camera if they spoke about non-brand ideas. Jill might have made her comment as a way to protect Jinger from being corrected by JB later. It was all about looking pious and pure.

Personally, I think Jill was fully on board with her parents idead back then. Sure the family was conscious of their image. Jill repeating her parent's beliefs was part of the control and the image. But was she correcting Jinger to protect her or because she truly believed IBLP's teachings? Jill said herself in retrospect, that she was a people pleaser. And of course, being the good soldier was her way to make sure she was in her parents' good graces.

If everyone remembers correctly, Jill was not the favorite on this forum. She was perceived as a try-hard and deep in the kool-aid. No one likes a goody-two-shoes. Was she just saying the right script? Or was she really deep down in it? I don't know.... no one can truly know what was going through their mind back then. Maybe she was following a script, doesn't mean what she was parroting was disingenuous tho. People can repeat certain phrases and mantra over and over again while believing in them very strongly.

It's my own opinion of course, but I think she was deep in Gothardism and believed it 110%. Which explains (for me) why the fall was more brutal for her. She has been more public about her faith journey and distancing herself from the family. I think the disenchantment is more intense if a person was strongly committed to something, and comes to realize it's massive faults. 

All of this to say, no one can truly know, but I think we are kind of projecting our perception of Jill today, to the person she was back then. People changed. Just because she now sees the wrong in her upbringing, doesn't mean she didn't genuinely belived it back then.

[Lynn18]

My phone keeps showing me Jinger's story on People...with a pic of Lisa Marie Presley. I don't click though. Nope, not me!

[Smee]

1 hour ago, Vivi_music said:

Personally, I think Jill was fully on board with her parents idead back then. Sure the family was conscious of their image. Jill repeating her parent's beliefs was part of the control and the image. But was she correcting Jinger to protect her or because she truly believed IBLP's teachings? Jill said herself in retrospect, that she was a people pleaser. And of course, being the good soldier was her way to make sure she was in her parents' good graces.

If everyone remembers correctly, Jill was not the favorite on this forum. She was perceived as a try-hard and deep in the kool-aid. No one likes a goody-two-shoes. Was she just saying the right script? Or was she really deep down in it? I don't know.... no one can truly know what was going through their mind back then. Maybe she was following a script, doesn't mean what she was parroting was disingenuous tho. People can repeat certain phrases and mantra over and over again while believing in them very strongly.

It's my own opinion of course, but I think she was deep in Gothardism and believed it 110%. Which explains (for me) why the fall was more brutal for her. She has been more public about her faith journey and distancing herself from the family. I think the disenchantment is more intense if a person was strongly committed to something, and comes to realize it's massive faults. 

All of this to say, no one can truly know, but I think we are kind of projecting our perception of Jill today, to the person she was back then. People changed. Just because she now sees the wrong in her upbringing, doesn't mean she didn't genuinely belived it back then.

Yeah I remember at the start of Jill’s moves away from the family, and when she left CO, thinking “wow of all the kids to break free a bit she is NOT the one I would have picked”. And I very much thought pants were just pants, a nose ring was just a nose ring etc and people were reading too much into those small superficial shifts away from her parents’ lifestyle.

[Cam]

Jill was conditioned from birth to believe Gothard teaching so I cannot fault her views when she was growing up. As a female she was also taught submissiveness and people pleasing. Being the first Duggar daughter to marry, once she was Mrs. Dillard, she was learning new terrain as she went along. When you are constantly surrounded by a mass of people all your childhood years and then go to living in a household of one other person, you have room to grow and time to listen to your own thoughts and reasoning. My family was not as large as hers but big enough, and I could not experience growth while growing up in a dysfunctional home as I was simply surviving even tho I was unaware that’s what I was doing.

I didn’t closely follow 19KAC but I remember being surprised it was Jill who started breaking (somewhat) free. She and Derick had a meeting of the minds. Wasn’t it when JB would not help them pay hospital bills after Jill had her baby that the severing of ties truly began? The Dillards had begun operating on logic and fairness (all that time on 19KAC surely deserved monetary compensation) and no longer putting blind faith and trust in the almighty JB. And that piiiissed JB off.