The Queen/Prince Philip

[louisa05]

8 minutes ago, tabitha2 said:

No. She is stating fact which are those things that only seem to have a passing familiarity to you:

Andrew served therefore he has the appropriate medals granted to him by the Service.  Britain says he entitled to wear them where lawful. 
 

Like wise if Harry has any medals he is entitled to wear he can wear them. 

 

Why is this even a thing we are still rehashing??
 

 

 

Because the entire family are horrible lying liars who lie except St Meghan and Blessed Harry of Montecito. C'mon, you knew that was the answer! 

The Sussex Squad was selling saint candles with their pictures on them. I'm guessing someone here has those lit in her house as we speak. 

Edited September 13, 2022 by louisa05

[Jackie3]

23 hours ago, tabitha2 said:

Andrew served therefore he has the appropriate medals granted to him by the Service.  Britain says he entitled to wear them where lawful. 

Yes, he served at the Battle of the Queen's Diamond Jubilee

Spoiler

The Battle of the Queen's Silver Jubilee

 

and the terrible Battle of the Golden Jubilee

 

 

Edited September 14, 2022 by Coconut Flan
Too many images.

[Loveday]

35 minutes ago, Jackie3 said:

No, I don't, I'm still learning. I should have checked. I didn't know Charles had seen combat. Where was that?

 

Google it.

[tabitha2]

53 minutes ago, Jackie3 said:

Yes, he served at the Battle of the Queen's Diamond Jubilee

/cdn-cgi/mirage/d120091129c104c5d6adfb3d4835f6091861863a-1663105802-1800/1280/https://www.freejinger.org/uploads/monthly_2022_09/download-27.jpg.0d4dd01f29ceae4cccb5a0fbbaee1216.jpg

The Battle of the Queen's Silver Jubilee

/cdn-cgi/mirage/d120091129c104c5d6adfb3d4835f6091861863a-1663105802-1800/1280/https://www.freejinger.org/uploads/monthly_2022_09/images-7.jpg.08a0733ce113f4dfb00dd353c0ed0468.jpg

 

and the terrible Battle of the Golden Jubilee

/cdn-cgi/mirage/d120091129c104c5d6adfb3d4835f6091861863a-1663105802-1800/1280/https://www.freejinger.org/uploads/monthly_2022_09/download-25.jpg.583a06c96f3cbe176e15a3fd041cfb10.jpg

 

 

 
WTF? What are you smoking today? Or you real just that stupid and Ignorant? 

 

Andrew flew in the Falkland’s war.

 

Per Wiki:

 

Andrew served in the Royal Navy as a helicopter pilot and instructor and as the captain of a warship. During the Falklands War, he flew on multiple missions including anti-surface warfare, casualty evacuation, and Exocet missile decoy.

 

To be Clear:Charles, William, Andrew, Harry and most other Royals males present will have served at some point. If they have medals not ceremonial they earned them. 
 

Edward: Tried to be a Marine but washed out. Everything he has is purely ceremonial. 
 

Anne: likewise granted by the Queen and ceremonial. 

Edited September 13, 2022 by tabitha2

[Jackie3]

Three of their medals were awarded for attending the Jubilees. It's a medal for sitting in the stands and clapping. 

These medals are as significant as those you'd find on a bottle of wine. It's like a child playing dressup. Take Princess Anne, for example. 

Quote

The Princess Royal did not serve in the military herself, but like many royals she holds a number of military honours and titles.

The uniform she has been pictured in is a Royal Navy ceremonial uniform – she was made a Rear Admiral in 1993, before being promoted to Vice Admiral in 2009 and finally Admiral in 2012.

In 2020 Anne was also made a General in the British Army and an Air Chief Marshal in the Royal Air Force.

Exactly why would she get a military honour if she never served? In the US, it's considered disrespectful to even wear a military uniform if you never served in that branch.

She's a General in the Army, a Chief Marshal in the Air Force, and an Admiral in the Navy? That is humorous.

Does she know how to fly a plane, navigate a boat, read a military map, or use an automatic weapon? 

 

 

Edited September 13, 2022 by Jackie3

[tabitha2]

Maybe not Significant in that sense but as they were granted by their mother they have sentimental value to her children. Let that be enough right now. 

[Jackie3]

57 minutes ago, Loveday said:

Google it.

I did, thank you. He never served in combat.

Quote

King Charles’ military uniform is emblazoned with all sorts of medals and other decorations, despite not seeing combat during his time in the military

 

5 minutes ago, tabitha2 said:

Maybe not Significant in that sense but as they were granted by their mother they have sentimental value to her children. Let that be enough right now. 

Their mother gave them a prize they had never earned. They should be ashamed to masquarade as military veterans.

[tabitha2]

They earned them by their service to her  and working for the monarchy. Anne Was not allowed or expected to serve like her eldest and next youngest brother did so contributed the best she could. Edward though he tried was not at suited to being A military man so contributed the best  he could.  They have nothing to be ashamed of .

 

Thousands  of serves  men and women have never been near a battlefield but still earned medals and are honored veterans.
 

 

 

 

Edited September 13, 2022 by tabitha2

[treehugger]

I can’t see Jackie’s posts, but from the sounds of it, the obnoxious, Rah-Rah USA patriot!!! has entered the room.
 

All militaries are full of toxic men. Doesn’t matter which country.  The US military (like the Canadian one, and probably every other one in existence in the history of the world), is full of rapists, sadists, war criminals, and general assholes, as well as good, decent men and women who give a shit.  But get off on the honourable American Military trope. I grew up in Guatemala and have almost nothing good to say about them.  
 

* I acknowledge that there are good men and women who serve as well, but let’s not pretend the institution as a whole is a paragon of virtue. 
 

 

Edited September 13, 2022 by treehugger

[Loveday]

20 minutes ago, Jackie3 said:

I did, thank you. He never served in combat.

No, he didn't. YOU said, originally, that he had never served. Served. Period. I corrected you, and now, thanks to Google, you know his service record. Believe it or not, people often get medals for service only, regardless of whether they've seen actual combat. 

[treehugger]

It is possible my amusement at the fuss over who gets to wear a uniform is in no small part because people are complex. A person can be a rapist and a courageous soldier.  The two are not mutually exclusive. 

Also, our Canadian military is currently struggling with a rash of sexual assaults from some very high-profile people, and no one quite knows how to handle it.  

Edited September 13, 2022 by treehugger

[tabitha2]

Yeah. For all Recorded  history and before armies were expected and encouraged to be raping thieving pillaging  locusts to destroy the enemies land and civilians and demoralize them  into submission.  It’s only in the last hundred years they have been pretending to be noble, merciful or honorable.  

[Destiny]

FFS you guys, this thread is about the Queen and Philip. If you want to argue about who wears what medals and people’s military records, which is a ridiculous thing to do in a pomp and circumstance monarchy, do it in the thread devoted to that person. 

ETA: Also, don’t feed trolls. 

Edited September 14, 2022 by Destiny

[hoipolloi]

OT PSA: Trolls are tedious but you can put them on "ignore" if you wish.

Go to your FJ profile and click on the "ignored users" option as indicated by the arrow in the first screenshot. That will take you to another page (2nd screenshot) where you can list all the trolls whose drivel you never want to see again.

[EmCatlyn]

12 hours ago, louisa05 said:

Veterans are not allowed to wear uniforms in the UK. Except (possibly) those who left with higher ranks for certain occasions. Different protocols than the US 

I wasn’t talking about veterans.  I was thinking they made the exception because the vigil is semi-private and it involves the Queen’s children.

Since then I read somewhere that a veteran with a rank of major or higher may be allowed to wear his uniform in special situations.  Guessing wildly (too much to do to look it up) I would think that veteran’s events and funerals would be two such special situations.  (Say you’re a former major attend a military funeral and have some words to say for an old comrade, maybe you can wear the uniform?)  

In any case, I remember that Harry was given special permission by the Queen to keep his beard while in uniform.  Maybe King Charles can give permission for a major to wear uniform at his mother’s funeral?

In the Harry and Meghan thread I speculate that maybe Elizabeth’s plans for her funeral and so forth included mention of her four children in uniform for the vigil and this is why Andrew may be allowed to wear a uniform for the vigil.

Just guessing.

[47of74]

13 hours ago, hoipolloi said:

OT PSA: Trolls are tedious but you can put them on "ignore" if you wish.

Go to your FJ profile and click on the "ignored users" option as indicated by the arrow in the first screenshot. That will take you to another page (2nd screenshot) where you can list all the trolls whose drivel you never want to see again.

Yeah I thought about mentioning that myself yesterday.  Since the Queen's passing I've actually added a few people to my FJ ignore list.  Not worth the time or energy to argue with these people.

Kate Middleton shared what her son Louis said when he found out his grannie had passed.

Quote

At age 4, Prince Louis brought to mind a beautiful and heartbreaking scene following the loss of Queen Elizabeth.

While greeting supporters of the late monarch at Windsor Castle on Sept. 10, the boy's mother Kate Middleton, the new Princess of Wales (formerly Duchess of Cambridge), relayed her youngest son's words to her about his paternal great-grandmother.

One well-wisher, Banita Ranow, said Kate told a group of children, "Louis said at least Grannie is with great grandpa now," the Sunday Times reported. Banita said the princess was "welling up" as she spoke, according to the outlet. Footage of that moment has since made its way to social media after Nicole Gumienny captured Kate's moving words on camera.

I've just had so much stuff in my eyes these past few days.

[tabitha2]

Children are so wise and real till the world teaches them different. 

[Antimony]

I have two (somewhat morbid) thoughts here but one is a question because I have a consistent interest in funeral practices and Death Studies. 

a) Can any UK FJers tell me their sense of the use of coffins vs caskets? I was a little surprised to see headlines say "coffin" so I just had to check that it was actually a coffin and it is, indeed, a coffin. (The make and design and history of this coffin is actually slightly interesting but that is besides the point here.) This is a little unusual to me as a USian because we've really had Caskets take over in popularity. In fact, I can't remember seeing a coffin used in a US funeral in my lifetime in my personal life and Reagan, Ford, H.W., Nixon, JFK, and LBJ were all buried in caskets rather than coffins. American funeral homes have really shifted incredibly heavily to caskets and coffins are not really showing up with any great frequency. I'm curious about the split in standard funerals and experiences, but it's not...easily Googable to find each countries numbers of sold caskets vs coffins. 

b) If Louis generated this sentiment by himself (instead of repeating what somebody had told him), he's a little developmentally ahead the standard curve of children's understandings of death. Age four is a little bit of an interesting time in children's understanding of mortality because they tend to know that "dead" and "alive" are different states but they usually haven't grasped the fact that dead is a permanent state until about 5 or 6 (sometimes as late as seven). 

[tabitha2]

Could be as simple as him asking where Great grandad went and them saying he went to heaven. Heaven is a nice place he will have learned. So to him it figures great granny  is there now as well so mama should not be sad. 
 

Or George or Charlotte tried to explain to him in  the best way they knew how. 

Edited September 14, 2022 by tabitha2

[viii]

I’m assuming Louis is merely parroting what he has said adults around him say. It’s a sweet sentiment but I agree that it’s unlikely he came up with it on his own. 

[rosamundi]

1 hour ago, Antimony said:

Can any UK FJers tell me their sense of the use of coffins vs caskets?

I'm going off the difference between the two as outlined in this wikipedia article, where a coffin is the tapered, hexagonal. vaguely anthropoidal shape and a casket is a rectangular box. I would say that we have more coffins than caskets at our burials. Looking at the Co-Op Funerals website, only four out of the 27 options on the page are caskets rather than coffins.

Edited September 14, 2022 by rosamundi
I can't count

[hoipolloi]

54 minutes ago, Antimony said:

Can any UK FJers tell me their sense of the use of coffins vs caskets?

Not from the UK but I worked for years with a former mortician and this alternative is part of the overall efforts of the American funeral industry to make themselves look more genteel. According to my co-worker, the word "casket" was nicer than "coffin," and "funeral director" should be used rather than "undertaker." The US funeral industry's obsession with niceties covers over its rapacious treatment of its customers when they are at their most vulnerable. This has been going on for a long time -- see, e.g., Jessica Mitford's The American Way of Death.

Speaking of funerals, this Canadian article on why the Queen's coffin is lead-lined is interesting if macabre. 

[adidas]

Not in the UK but I have only ever seen coffins at funerals here. I’ve never personally seen a casket.

[Seahorse Wrangler]

5 hours ago, 47of74 said:

 

I've just had so much stuff in my eyes these past few days.

My husband used to joke that it was a shame professional mourners had gone out of date.  

[Antimony]

8 minutes ago, hoipolloi said:

Not from the UK but I worked for years with a former mortician and this alternative is part of the overall efforts of the American funeral industry to make themselves look more genteel. According to my co-worker, the word "casket" was nicer than "coffin," and "funeral director" should be used rather than "undertaker." The US funeral industry's obsession with niceties covers over its rapacious treatment of its customers when they are at their most vulnerable. This has been going on for a long time -- see, e.g., Jessica Mitford's The American Way of Death.

Speaking of funerals, this Canadian article on why the Queen's coffin is lead-lined is interesting if macabre. 

I've read The American Way of Death (Revisited) and all of Caitlin Doughty's collection (and a number of other things because I designed a course on the chemistry of death and funeral practices) but I do mean the literally difference of four-sides vs six-sided boxes and the different between something that is anthropoid and something that is not. I agree there's a certain level of "politeness" in the words that differs but as with anything, at a certain point of use, casket will sound just as morbid as coffin and maybe we're switch to a new, fresher word. 

The efficacy of an air-tight seal on slowing decomposition is...questionable to me as a biochemist, honestly, since most of the decay is going to begin with our own microbes, many of which are facultative, and don't need oxygen access [at least, high concentrations] to thrive. Doughty also points out that if you've made a completely air-tight seal in a coffin, you've created a ticking time bomb and that improperly ventilated mausoleums have been known to explode because of this exact same problem. I feel like "sealed" anything is always over-sold and always over-advertised on this level. 

She has a very in-depth (read: gnarly) video on why mausoleums don't smell, and this feels relevant to me because it's a similar set of conditions as a "sealed" [either casket or coffin] and because Royals are crypt'd instead of buried.