The Queen/Prince Philip

[Jackie3]

2 hours ago, tabitha2 said:

They both have the right technically as they served in the military and It’s flat out wrong and a very bad look to Deny Harry the honor. For once he should be rightfully upset here as  It should be both wear or neither wear it. 

I'll bet he doesn't care, though it's still unjust. His life is in California now. I imagine arcane rules don't matter much to him.

After all, there are royals wearing uniforms who never served at all, like Charles. They wear a chest full of meaningless metals. Harry has worked to support real combat veterans.

The vigil is about his grandmother, and nothing will bring her back no matter what he wears. So I doubt it matters much to him. He is there for his grandmother.

Edited September 13, 2022 by Jackie3

[Anna Bolinas]

1 hour ago, just_ordinary said:

I read he is only allowed to wear the medals on a suit at most? Because if you are not actively serving you can’t wear the uniform and he has no ceremonial role with them anymore. Same for H. And H has only one real medal through active service  iirc. The rest are those part of the family things the royals hand out occasionally. 

The tweets that I read simply said that Andrew has been given permission to wear his uniform "as a mark of respect," whereas Harry cannot wear his. That sounds to me like it goes beyond just the medals, but I guess we'll only really know when the actual funeral happens. Regardless, I think that giving Andrew any kind of special permission is stupid. 

1 hour ago, just_ordinary said:

On another note, I don’t get the fuss about comparing H to A. A’s actions were/are a disgrace and disgusting. H is just annoying and pathetic. BUT PAis her late Majesty’s son. Of course he might get treated differently than one of her many grandchildren?

I mean it isn't necessarily a surprise, but I just think that being a rapist should disqualify you from any kind of special treatment. I don't care if he was mommy's special little boy. He is a foul human being, and the fact that he continues to be coddled is reprehensible. And that's why I, at least, will keep harping on it. If the royals don't want to invite comparisons between the two, then maybe stop giving the one who engaged in criminal behavior special treatment. 

[Jackie3]

1 hour ago, Anna Bolinas said:

The tweets that I read simply said that Andrew has been given permission to wear his uniform "as a mark of respect," whereas Harry cannot wear his. That sounds to me like it goes beyond just the medals, but I guess we'll only really know when the actual funeral happens. Regardless, I think that giving Andrew any kind of special permission is stupid. 

2 hours ago, just_ordinary said:

Andrew has been given special permission to wear his entire uniform at the vigil, not just the medals. 

Harry did not get special permission. His crime is apparently far greater than Andrews, in the eyes of the Palace. The optics on this will be poor indeed. 

 

[just_ordinary]

@Anna Bolinas I don’t disagree. I just think that people get awfully invested in the inner workings of a family they only ever see on tv and the internet. 
People got up in arms about him wearing uniform for his father’s funeral and he didn’t. There is so much misinformation and speculation taking for a fact out there, we would do well to wait and see. I think this particular topic has, again been stirred up by the DailyFail, because it creates engagements and people love to hate on both of those men. We just as well might see the siblings in normal mourning attire. Or just the King in uniform. 
And is it really important who gets to wear what at her funeral? It’s f*****g clothes. If that is something PA or PH get their knickers in a twist at their beloved mothers/grandmothers funeral they need to check their priorities. Yes, it might be an unfairly distributed honour, but any of them should be grown up enough to say, Sod it, I won’t engage in this and just pay my respects and grieve.

Edited September 13, 2022 by just_ordinary

[louisa05]

11 hours ago, Jackie3 said:

Nope. Andrew the rapist will be allowed to wear his complete uniform at the Queen's special vigil.  Harry is not.

This is so tone-deaf that I think it will hurt the monarchy enormously.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/prince-harry-andrew-uniform-queen-vigil-edinburgh-b2165653.html

Perhaps some UK posters can tell us if this is accurate: I read on another site that UK vets who had a rank of major or higher--which Andrew did--can wear a uniform for certain occasions while those who were not ranked that high cannot. Harry was only a captain when he left the military. I suspect this is accurate because military rules for veterans in uniform would apply in their cases since their honorary military titles were removed. If so, no exceptions are being made for Andrew; the existing rules are being applied. 

[Loveday]

10 hours ago, Jackie3 said:

 

After all, there are royals wearing uniforms who never served at all, like Charles. They wear a chest full of meaningless metals. Harry has worked to support real combat veterans.

 

Oh, but Charles DID serve. He was in the Royal Navy from 1971 to 1977, his last tour of duty commanding the HMS Bronington. He also served on several other ships and qualified as a helicopter pilot. 

I thought you knew everything about the royals. Silly me. 😏

[viii]

Okay, but Edward and Anne didn’t serve. It’s ridiculous they get to wear full military garb. They should have stuck to the dress code for Prince Philip’s funeral. It made the whole affair a lot more intimate and made them look more like a family and less like an institution. 

[Coconut Flan]

They are also up against philip could have private funeral and this is a state occasion.

[EmCatlyn]

13 hours ago, tabitha2 said:

They both have the right technically as they served in the military and It’s flat out wrong and a very bad look to Deny Harry the honor. For once he should be rightfully upset here as  It should be both wear or neither wear it. 

I haven’t been following this.  I wonder if the reasoning is that the sons and daughter are the ones who are actually doing the vigil?

It makes no sense, otherwise.

[Loveday]

7 minutes ago, Coconut Flan said:

They are also up against philip could have private funeral and this is a state occasion.

Yes, I think that's the main difference here. And while no, Edward and Anne have never actively served in a branch of the military, I give them a pass (like they need ME to!) on wearing them at her funeral and at any vigils during the week, if they so desire, because the Queen bestowed those military honors on them. It's understood by everyone (I would think!) that it's all honorary, most everyone knows they wear those uniforms as figureheads and not actual officers in whatever unit those uniforms represent. I can totally understand, though, that their not having actually served might bother those who HAVE served. It's just one of those long-engrained traditions that I guess few have really questioned until now. 

As for Harry and Andrew, I would think they could wear the dress uniforms they wore while serving in the military, but with only the medals they actually earned therein. No medals bestowed by the Queen for any honorary military appointments, of course, since they've been removed. I don't know the UK rules for wearing one's dress uniform after one's service is complete, though, maybe they're not supposed to? I should read up on that. I only know that my husband, as a retired Navy commander in the US, can wear his dress uniform on appropriate formal occasions if he so wishes--and if it still fits! 😆

[tabitha2]

While his brothers and Anne have stayed fit and active with healthy habits  I seriously doubt Andrews luxurious debauched lifestyle still allows him to fit into his original Uniform of 40 years ago without some major let out. An old  lush playing soldier Prince again is what it’s going to look like at least to me  even though given the circumstances it’s not what I should feel. Just can’t help it. 

[Loveday]

16 minutes ago, Loveday said:

As for Harry and Andrew, I would think they could wear the dress uniforms they wore while serving in the military, but with only the medals they actually earned therein. No medals bestowed by the Queen for any honorary military appointments, of course, since they've been removed. I don't know the UK rules for wearing one's dress uniform after one's service is complete, though, maybe they're not supposed to? I should read up on that. I only know that my husband, as a retired Navy commander in the US, can wear his dress uniform on appropriate formal occasions if he so wishes--and if it still fits! 😆

Quoting myself to say that @Melbelle answered this for me in another thread--no, they cannot wear their uniforms after leaving the service. They can only wear their medals. Different rules in the UK to those in the US!

[Melbelle]

Okay, there is too much overlap between these threads right now, but I just did a post over in the Prince Andrew thread about this as well.  No, in the UK you are not allowed to wear your uniform after you have been discharged from service.  However, you are allowed to wear any medals you earned during your service on your clothing.  This is different than in the US where you can wear your uniform for formal events like weddings, funerals, etc.  

Edit: And I see @Loveday just mentioned this too!

Edited September 13, 2022 by Melbelle
.

[louisa05]

58 minutes ago, EmCatlyn said:

I haven’t been following this.  I wonder if the reasoning is that the sons and daughter are the ones who are actually doing the vigil?

It makes no sense, otherwise.

Veterans are not allowed to wear uniforms in the UK. Except (possibly) those who left with higher ranks for certain occasions. Different protocols than the US 

[Giraffe]

Thanks @Lovedayfor the clarification on why Anne & Edward were wearing uniforms. I was quite confused!

Edited September 13, 2022 by Giraffe

[louisa05]

So I just found on the Royal Navy site that discharged vets of that branch can wear the uniform for certain occasions. Andrew served in the Navy. So presuming he wears a navy uniform, he is allowed. 
 

Harry did not serve in that branch. 

[Anna Bolinas]

9 hours ago, just_ordinary said:

I just think that people get awfully invested in the inner workings of a family they only ever see on tv and the internet. 

Not to be glib, but perhaps they should dissolve the monarchy then to ensure people don’t get invested in their internecine family conflicts.

And when it comes to Andrew, it can’t just be “clothes.” It’s the principle of the thing. It’s the optics. Stop giving the rapist special treatment, and you’ll stop getting criticism. 

[tabitha2]

It’s not special treatment to be part of his mothers funeral procession and wear his service uniform if it’s lawful. It will only start getting truly upsetting if say he is included as Councillor of State and  Harry is not or he starts popping up at Official dinners, events and ceremony when he has no business and no role.

I imagine he will try to wheedle and push a little more out of his  lane to see how far he can get with Bro King. 

[QuiverFullofBooks]

We keep calling them “military medals,” but the Daily Mail (I know, not the highest journalistic standard) listed the medals each of them was wearing, and they’re mostly participation trophies from the Queen’s various jubilees, etc.

[noseybutt]

48 minutes ago, QuiverFullofBooks said:

We keep calling them “military medals,” but the Daily Mail (I know, not the highest journalistic standard) listed the medals each of them was wearing, and they’re mostly participation trophies from the Queen’s various jubilees, etc.

This made me laugh. Very much the difference between an honorary degree versus an earned one. 

[louisa05]

4 hours ago, Anna Bolinas said:

Not to be glib, but perhaps they should dissolve the monarchy then to ensure people don’t get invested in their internecine family conflicts.

And when it comes to Andrew, it can’t just be “clothes.” It’s the principle of the thing. It’s the optics. Stop giving the rapist special treatment, and you’ll stop getting criticism. 

In the U.S convicted felons in jail can have compassionate supervised furlough to attend the burial of close family. I really don't think being allowed to participate in his mother's funeral and follow the protocols of the military while doing so is "special treatment". 

3 hours ago, QuiverFullofBooks said:

We keep calling them “military medals,” but the Daily Mail (I know, not the highest journalistic standard) listed the medals each of them was wearing, and they’re mostly participation trophies from the Queen’s various jubilees, etc.

The military gets those same medals. So technically it's true. 

And Andrew has service medals from the Falklands War and a "long service" medal from the Royal Navy. Harry may have something from his honorable duty of playing video games in Afghanistan because the unit would have received them, 

Edited September 13, 2022 by louisa05

[Jackie3]

7 hours ago, Loveday said:

Oh, but Charles DID serve. He was in the Royal Navy from 1971 to 1977, his last tour of duty commanding the HMS Bronington. He also served on several other ships and qualified as a helicopter pilot. 

I thought you knew everything about the royals. Silly me. 😏

No, I don't, I'm still learning. I should have checked. I didn't know Charles had seen combat. Where was that?

34 minutes ago, louisa05 said:

And Andrew has service medals from the Falklands War and a "long service" medal from the Royal Navy. Harry may have something from his honorable duty of playing video games in Afghanistan because the unit would have received them, 

 

Andrew impresses you, it seems. The guy needs someone on his side, besides his defense attorneys!  He actually doesn't have a lot of supporters, so he'll probably appreciate it.

You support the man who was stripped of his titles for associating with a sex trafficker. You minimize Harry's contribution to the war because. .. he did something even worse. He left a toxic family.

As for Harry. . . I wonder who has protected more people from the Taliban, you or him?  He did two tours, how many did you do?

 

These medals are often pretty meaningless when they are awarded to royals. Prince Edward has a bunch of  military honors and medals -- even though he dropped out of the Royal Marines after only four months! Basically, he completed 25% of basic training, then quit.

Quote

While he never actively served in the military, Edward holds a number of military honors and titles. He was made Commodore-in-Chief of the Royal Fleet Auxiliary in 2006, while his Royal Colonel of 2nd Battalion, The Rifles title came in 2007.

Additionally, he is a Royal Honorary Colonel of the London Regiment and is also an Honorary Air Commodore of Royal Air Force Waddington.

What a tough guy! He also got one for the Queen's jubilees, for no particular reason, really.

"I'm a brave military guy"

Quote

"Won all those medals in just 4 months. Fought at the Battles of the Queen's Silver Jubilee, Golden Jubilee and Diamond Jubilee. Wasn't the country lucky to have a stout defender on its side?"

 

Edited September 13, 2022 by Jackie3

[47of74]

On 9/10/2022 at 1:00 AM, rosamundi said:

The BBC is saying that all passports will remain valid until expiry, but new ones will now be issued in the name of His Majesty. Can you imagine the administrative nightmare if everyone's passports suddenly expired on the same day? It'd be carnage.

Yeah especially at the airports as UK citizens coming home from overseas suddenly find they can't get into the country because their passports expired mid flight. 

I watched some of the video around Charles approving ascension council matters and a few of the items he approved were to allow the continued use of state seals until new ones can be designed, approved, and then created.  I imagine it's all going to take a bit of time to get everything changed over to C III R and the like.

[louisa05]

18 minutes ago, Jackie3 said:

 

 

Andrew impresses you, it seems. The guy needs someone on his side, besides his defense attorneys!  He actually doesn't have a lot of supporters, so he'll probably appreciate it.

You support the man who was stripped of his titles for associating with a sex trafficker. You minimize Harry's contribution to the war because. .. he did something even worse. He left a toxic family.

As for Harry. . . I wonder who has protected more people from the Taliban, you or him?  He did two tours, how many did you do?

Oh, for FFS. Just pointing out that some of Andrew's medals were earned. That doesn't equal admiration. As for Harry, many people who served with him have come out and said that he was in a secure place behind the lines doing nothing the entire time. With other members of the unit protecting him from the Taliban. But do go on about how amazing he is for...whining endlessly about his family? Not following through on contracts? Revealing private conversations to Gayle King on the regular? Sitting around nodding while his wife lies to Oprah? Refusing to visit his 96 year old grandmother while in the country? Which of these amazing accomplishments won you over? Do tell. 

[tabitha2]

No. She is stating fact which are those things that only seem to have a passing familiarity to you:

Andrew served therefore he has the appropriate medals granted to him by the Service.  Britain says he entitled to wear them where lawful. 
 

Like wise if Harry has any medals he is entitled to wear he can wear them. 

 

Why is this even a thing we are still rehashing??
 

 

 

Edited September 13, 2022 by tabitha2