Harry & Meghan 10: Even Less Relevant to the BRF

[Coconut Flan]

Don't get me started on the early 70s.  We still have problems, but nothing like it was.  I had not one female professor my entire freshman year of college.  I had a professor retire rather than give a female student a grade in the class.  I was the one and only female student he ever taught.  My male lab partners did the work and didn't even tell me when the group meetings were or had them in the male dorms where I was not allowed entry until I went ahead and did them on my own and got a higher grade.  We had a curfew to be in the dorm and skirts or dresses were required in all classrooms and dining halls and dining rooms.  Shall I continue?

Even in the 80s I was the only woman in the room for technical discussions.  Then I was the only woman manager.  It was the nineties before there were two women managers in the meetings! 

My great fun was being the manager Mrs. X.  We had a technical lead Mr. X.  Men in suits would come to conduct business with me and ask for Mr. X.  I'd calmly direct them to him.  He'd laugh and laugh when he brought them back to me.   

Thankfully most of those things no longer happen.  Oh and my preferred college would not let me apply because they only took female students in certain areas.  My mother and I sued them over that and won.  

Meghan is the same age as one of my daughters and we all lived and still live in Southern California.  I know she did not face the same challenges.  She may have faced some commentary about being an aspiring performer, but since aspiring performers are a dime a dozen in Los Angeles almost all of them do.  That would not have been personal.

Are there still issues?  Of course, but times have changed while there are still hurdles.  Many of the hurdles are less blatant now and those can be more difficult to challenge.  I'm still the mouthy one calling them out and still convincing my daughters that they need to do the same.  

The good news is that are almost never the only women in the room/conference/courtroom/etc.  

Edited August 24, 2022 by Coconut Flan

[MamaJunebug]

I contest the claim that the young Duchess-to-be was taught that ambition was bad in women.  Her father encouraged her to write to VIP’s about the P&G ad and he even arranged a “TV interview” for her to talk about it. Not sure it ever aired on broadcast tv.
 

 I don’t know that the private school for girls she attended was progressive but it seems very unlikely that it was nothing more than a finishing school like Diana Spencer ( & her sisters? ) attended in the 1970s to prep them for traditional women’ stoles in aristocratic society.  In my middle-class Amurrican world, gurls’’ high schools have long been devoted to turning out achieving, ambitious young women. And I’m Prince Charles’ age.  

[louisa05]

17 hours ago, sableduck said:

I know leaving your baby to work sucks but it just sounds so tone deaf.  Many of us have had to do that, and unless I’m wrong, the baby traveled with her.

I had to go back to 24 shifts when my babies were six weeks old as a paramedic.  That sucked. Badly. But I had to buy formula and diapers and pay NICU bills.  Fortunately DH and I rotated 24 shifts so one of us was home and I could leave the babies with him, but it still sucked.  And I wasn’t out on a tree stump giving a speech.

They were staying at the British High Commissioner’s estate. Not a “housing unit “. (Photo below). I highly doubt there were no smoke alarms. The baby was not in the room and no one was injured. And it was summer in South Africa so highly unlikely there were space heaters anywhere.  Plus there was a massive pack of reporters following them but not one got the slightest clue of this story. 
This is all one of Meghan’s pity party stories. 
 

photo: 

Spoiler

 

[Coconut Flan]

2 hours ago, MamaJunebug said:

I don’t know that the private school for girls she attended was progressive but it seems very unlikely that it was nothing more than a finishing school like Diana Spencer ( & her sisters? ) attended in the 1970s to prep them for traditional women’ stoles in aristocratic society.  In my middle-class Amurrican world, gurls’’ high schools have long been devoted to turning out achieving, ambitious young women. And I’m Prince Charles’ age.  

Catholic girls' high schools in SoCal in the 90s were all about the stats of how highly ranked the colleges were that their graduates attended.  Their curriculum was college prep with extremely limited alternatives.  At least that was the diocese of San Diego and I very much doubt LA was any different.  

I was thinking more about this last night.  What I've read on her blog and her interviews, Meghan talked (and still does) of wanting to walk the red carpet and of being a role model.  Those are more the glamour and glitz and acclaim seeking roles.  Aspiration for that isn't always commendable.  If she'd said she wanted to be the best at her craft that she could be I doubt it would have gotten the same reaction.   My daughters were encouraged in school to achieve as much as their brother was and sometimes even more so.  It was similar in college.  What she may have encountered what was my son did.  He wanted to be a writer and like acting there are a lot more people who aspire to that than have great achievement in it as a career.  He got quite a bit of are you sure and what is your backup plan.  The aspiring research scientist never heard any of that.  

59 minutes ago, louisa05 said:

They were staying at the British High Commissioner’s estate. Not a “housing unit “. (Photo below). I highly doubt there were no smoke alarms. The baby was not in the room and no one was injured. And it was summer in South Africa so highly unlikely there were space heaters anywhere.  Plus there was a massive pack of reporters following them but not one got the slightest clue of this story. 
This is all one of Meghan’s pity party stories. 

May Rufus bless you richly.

[viii]

3 hours ago, MamaJunebug said:

I contest the claim that the young Duchess-to-be was taught that ambition was bad in women.  Her father encouraged her to write to VIP’s about the P&G ad and he even arranged a “TV interview” for her to talk about it. Not sure it ever aired on broadcast tv.

That was her point, though. She said she had never been told ambition was bad for women until she met Harry and everyone accused her of having an agenda and being a climber. She wasn’t talking about her childhood. 

[Coconut Flan]

So she says.  A few articles, not everyone, did suggest or outright say she used men to advance herself on occasion.  Thus the being a climber.  On the surface her history doesn't disprove that.  That isn't just ambition.  Again she's being disingenuous.  She's long been accused of using people and discarding them when they were no longer of help to her.  

I didn't and won't listen to the podcast so should probably bow out now.  

[adidas]

I didn’t listen either (and won’t) but I’m not bowing out 🤣

Others at the ‘housing complex’ at the time have spoken out and said that there was no fire. A heater was smoking and was unplugged. Meghan was outraged and moved to new accommodation. So … recollections may vary? Again?

[viii]

1 hour ago, Coconut Flan said:

She's long been accused of using people and discarding them when they were no longer of help to her.  

I didn't and won't listen to the podcast so should probably bow out now.  

This is true. Some of the people I don't fault her for, but when it's such a large amount of people, the reasonable actions get lost in the wave and it seems like patterns and habits have formed, even if a couple of them were justified. Once again, she's her own worst enemy. 

I haven't listened to it, nor will I (her voice is annoying) but I won't bow out, lol. We talk about a lot of things in the royalty section that we have little knowledge on - this isn't anything different haha. 

52 minutes ago, adidas said:

I didn’t listen either (and won’t) but I’m not bowing out 🤣

Others at the ‘housing complex’ at the time have spoken out and said that there was no fire. A heater was smoking and was unplugged. Meghan was outraged and moved to new accommodation. So … recollections may vary? Again?

Yeah, the fire story seemed like a huge stretch to me. If it was true the way she recounted it, then I feel like there would have been far more media attention regarding it. I'm glad people are debunking their falsehoods. The lies are tiresome. 

Edited August 24, 2022 by viii

[treehugger]

I find their negativity exhausting.  It is fine and dandy to bring awareness to causes, that’s usually a great way for the average person to support a cause.  But they are literally part of the 1% of the population of the world that holds all the wealth and power.  If they want to talk about issues they need to do more than complain.  They have the ability to be a force of positive good in the world (and an influential one at that, that is the responsibility of wealth and privilege), but right now they want the pity not usually given to the poorest of the poor. I wanted to like them so much at the beginning, but I am getting sick of it now.  

Edited August 24, 2022 by treehugger

[treehugger]

I want to add, when you have as much wealth and influence as those two do, complaining about how hard your life is comes across as wildly tone deaf.  Everyone struggles and has difficult moments but they have access to so many supports that most people couldn’t dream of.  A better way for them to bring awareness would be to find ways to make some of those supports more available to the common person.  Ironically Invictus was a good start.  Talking about an issue and following through with positive action. 

[EmCatlyn]

On 8/23/2022 at 4:21 PM, LilaMae said:

I can imagine that it must be stressful to have a fire break out in the nursery (though I'm guessing it must have been a small one that was easily put out if the press never knew about it). That said, Archie thankfully was not hurt, and if things have been scheduled and events planned on a royal tour, it would be quite difficult for it to be cancelled just before without a bit of a kerfuffle.

As for ambition, I can see that being considered a negative trait for a spouse in the Royal Family. For one thing, it's meant to be about service rather than personal ambition, and another, as the wife of the spare, she can only really go down in importance within the hierarchy unless something tragic happens to the Cambridges.

 

Edit to say I misunderstood.  According to someone who read more carefully, she was saying the RF told her it was wrong for a woman to be ambitious…

So — nevermind. 
 

Wasn’t she saying that she was raised to think women shouldn’t be ambitious?  She wasn’t just talking about the Royal Family’s response to her.

I have to say that I don’t believe for a moment that Meghan was raised to think she shouldn’t be ambitious because she is a woman.  She is a child of Hollywood, where no one gets ahead without ambition.

She may have been taught that women should not overtly display their ambition too much.  That’s different.

If she grew up thinking that “ambition” was necessary but that a woman shouldn’t be “caught” being ambitious, then her problem may be less that her “ambition” isn’t accepted but that she got caught— she can’t hide her ambition, she can’t disguise it as something else, she has “failed” in her own eyes and it is someone else’s fault because she can’t face having anything other than a perfect image.   Very sad.

Edited August 24, 2022 by EmCatlyn
Correct self.

[EmCatlyn]

On 8/18/2022 at 5:44 PM, tabitha2 said:

Presumably People in the entertainment business or those with very fat wallets whose good will they want to cultivate for the future. 

I am not in the entertainment business and I sure don’t have a fat wallet, but if I were invited to the “vow renewal” of two people who have been married less than 15 years, I would wonder (a) which one of them had cheated and (b) why was I being invited since I wasn’t related.

Seriously, the only vow renewals I’ve heard of that weren’t to celebrate a major anniversary were private ones in cases of infidelity and/or some major fight.

No, wait — I forgot the “vow renewals” the abusive Turpin parents (now in jail) had in Vegas a couple of times with their favorite Elvis impersonator.  I hope that is not what Meghan and Harry have in mind!😉

[EmCatlyn]

On 8/23/2022 at 4:21 PM, LilaMae said:

I can imagine that it must be stressful to have a fire break out in the nursery (though I'm guessing it must have been a small one that was easily put out if the press never knew about it). That said, Archie thankfully was not hurt, and if things have been scheduled and events planned on a royal tour, it would be quite difficult for it to be cancelled just before without a bit of a kerfuffle.

People with careers sometimes sacrifice personal feelings for professional obligation.  I missed the funeral of a beloved aunt because I was an invited speaker at a conference, and I felt it would be wrong to cancel at the last minute.

When my kids had minor school plays scheduled at a time when I had to be teaching, I remember having to miss it, because you can’t just reschedule a class.  For that matter, when I was a senior in high school and received an award, my father (busy executive) was able to attend the ceremony but my mother (university professor) could not.

Meghan’s “job” at that moment was to attend whatever her schedule said had been scheduled for her.  She could not take time off to indulge her feelings because other people were counting on her presence.

[Coconut Flan]

My Meghan grow up story is this one.  I was chairing the contract evaluation for a $3bn foreign military sales contract.  People were coming from around the world including company presidents and foreign government representatives.  About 40 minutes prior to kick off one of my kids set fire to the kitchen (Meghan dramatized version or the house if we really want to exaggerate.)  I did not run home.

What really happened is 40 minutes before the conference started the toaster oven seems to have set itself on fire.  My oldest child was legally by the state old enough to babysit.  Emotionally not so much.  The five years younger sister pulled the power plug on the toaster oven, poured a canister of flour over it to put out the fire, shoved her sister's mildly burned finger under cold running water, cut a piece of aloe plant and peeled it, applied it so her sister's finger, and finally called me.  

I asked if she was sure the fire was out?  Yes.  Is anyone hurt?  She said a less than half inch spot was slightly pink on her sister's finger.  Did they have something else to eat handy?  Yes.  I said if you need help with food call neighbor J.  I'll buy more flour and a new toaster oven on my way home.  Thanks I have to run.  

Mr. Flan had to do a small kitchen repair.  If you make everything into a drama as a parent, you can't get much else in life done.  Would I have rather driven home to verify all was well?  Of course.  Could I actually leave that conference?  My boss might have killed me.  He was absolutely not prepared and never trained in doing large contracts much less in handling the negotiations.  

[just_ordinary]

While it seems M has, again, a slightly different recalling of events as everyone else, that’s not even my biggest problem with the podcast episode.

Can’t she get anyone remotely interesting with valuable things to contribute than friends? Sorry, but Serena is not exactly contributing to the topic here. Which is surprising because her way should have given them several east talking points. I am also extremely tired of the negative angle. What I want to know is how to do it anyway. What drove her? Just inner motivation - especially interesting in light of the movie about the massive influence of her father. A good reflection on that would be so valuable instead of more platitudes. I am sure there were several moments where her ambitions were thrown into her face. How did she feel? What build her up again? How does she try to support the ambitions of her kid(s)? But honestly after the also very empty mental health support yada yada she did for H it seems she no real reflected insights whatsoever to contribute. 
I am sure we will get many of those little digs against the RF. It’s the only slightly interesting thing M has to offer at that point. That’s just sad. And it’s not sustainable. At least not if you want to build your own professional profile. At this point they are like a rich version of Uncle Garry.

[Chiari]

I'll start by saying that I have not listened to the podcast nor I intend to but as always I'm quite frustrated by the Sussexes. 

In regarding to the ambition comment, I can understand the difference between being used to the Hollywood way of dealing with ambition (you are expected to fight to emerge, to have the spotlight) and the Royal Family where everything is hierarchical and about service to the nation but, as with other problems Meghan had in the UK, she was the one that needed to adapt, rather than the institution. I'm still so angry at how much potential for good the Sussexes had that they never used because they always wanted more. 

I'm very sorry about the small fire, it must have been a scary moment for a mother despite its reduced dimensions, I'm glad no one was hurt but again, I don't understand why bring this up. Archie was fine, he was with his nanny and security (and very likely quite a few house staff) and Meghan had work to do, it's a situation so many people (particularly mothers) find themselves everyday and yet they are not in a position to complain. One example, I was born extremely pre term, the doctors weren't sure of my survival and I spent the first three months of my life in NICU, my parents were self employed, if they didn't work the money weren't coming in, they went back to work because they had no choice even though they probably would have preferred to stay with me. 

Meghan's situation looks to me a lot better that my parents' situation and yet they never complained. This is actually the problem with the Sussexes, they have soooo much privilege and power(they surely had hardships, not trying to deny that) and yet they are trying to pass as this poor underdog victims that the world should feel sorry for. 

[just_ordinary]

56 minutes ago, Chiari said:

I'll start by saying that I have not listened to the podcast nor I intend to but as always I'm quite frustrated by the Sussexes. 

In regarding to the ambition comment, I can understand the difference between being used to the Hollywood way of dealing with ambition (you are expected to fight to emerge, to have the spotlight) and the Royal Family where everything is hierarchical and about service to the nation but, as with other problems Meghan had in the UK, she was the one that needed to adapt, rather than the institution. I'm still so angry at how much potential for good the Sussexes had that they never used because they always wanted more. 

I'm very sorry about the small fire, it must have been a scary moment for a mother despite its reduced dimensions, I'm glad no one was hurt but again, I don't understand why bring this up. Archie was fine, he was with his nanny and security (and very likely quite a few house staff) and Meghan had work to do, it's a situation so many people (particularly mothers) find themselves everyday and yet they are not in a position to complain. One example, I was born extremely pre term, the doctors weren't sure of my survival and I spent the first three months of my life in NICU, my parents were self employed, if they didn't work the money weren't coming in, they went back to work because they had no choice even though they probably would have preferred to stay with me. 

Meghan's situation looks to me a lot better that my parents' situation and yet they never complained. This is actually the problem with the Sussexes, they have soooo much privilege and power(they surely had hardships, not trying to deny that) and yet they are trying to pass as this poor underdog victims that the world should feel sorry for. 

I don’t understand why she brought it up at all because it had absolutely nothing to with the topic. Like at all?

[rosamundi]

On 8/23/2022 at 10:21 PM, LilaMae said:

I can imagine that it must be stressful to have a fire break out in the nursery (though I'm guessing it must have been a small one that was easily put out if the press never knew about it). That said, Archie thankfully was not hurt, and if things have been scheduled and events planned on a royal tour, it would be quite difficult for it to be cancelled just before without a bit of a kerfuffle.

I suspect everyone's attitude was that nobody was hurt, everyone was waiting for them and it wouldn't be possible to reschedule everything at this late date. Very British, stiff upper lip, you have a job to do, this is how the Royal Family behaves in these situations.

If Archie had been hurt, it would have been a completely different story.

[Coconut Flan]

7 hours ago, just_ordinary said:

Can’t she get anyone remotely interesting with valuable things to contribute than friends? Sorry, but Serena is not exactly contributing to the topic here. Which is surprising because her way should have given them several east talking points. I am also extremely tired of the negative angle. What I want to know is how to do it anyway. What drove her? Just inner motivation - especially interesting in light of the movie about the massive influence of her father. A good reflection on that would be so valuable instead of more platitudes. I am sure there were several moments where her ambitions were thrown into her face. How did she feel? What build her up again? How does she try to support the ambitions of her kid(s)? But honestly after the also very empty mental health support yada yada she did for H it seems she no real reflected insights whatsoever to contribute. 

All she's been proving to me is that she and Harry are unutterably shallow.

[LilaMae]

8 hours ago, just_ordinary said:

I don’t understand why she brought it up at all because it had absolutely nothing to with the topic. Like at all?

There was an interview a couple of days ago in which Meghan said this: 

“People should expect the real me in this, and probably the me that they’ve never gotten to know — certainly not in the past few years, where everything is through the lens of the media as opposed to, ‘Hey, it’s me,'” the ex-royal said in a promo for her new “Archetypes” podcast, which premiered Tuesday.

“I’m just excited to be myself and talk and be unfiltered and…yeah, it’s fun,” she continued.

 

So, basically, the podcast is a way for Meghan to get out her "truth", that she is a martyr and the Royal Family and the press are meanies. So the fire story is very on topic.

 

[prayawaythefundie]

1 hour ago, LilaMae said:

“I’m just excited to be myself and talk and be unfiltered and…yeah, it’s fun,” she continued.

Meghan unfiltered. This could be interesting. Maybe I should bring myself to listen to it after all. Or maybe I just don‘t care enough. 🤔

Edited August 25, 2022 by prayawaythefundie

[louisa05]

11 hours ago, just_ordinary said:

While it seems M has, again, a slightly different recalling of events as everyone else, that’s not even my biggest problem with the podcast episode.

Can’t she get anyone remotely interesting with valuable things to contribute than friends? Sorry, but Serena is not exactly contributing to the topic here. Which is surprising because her way should have given them several east talking points. I am also extremely tired of the negative angle. What I want to know is how to do it anyway. What drove her? Just inner motivation - especially interesting in light of the movie about the massive influence of her father. A good reflection on that would be so valuable instead of more platitudes. I am sure there were several moments where her ambitions were thrown into her face. How did she feel? What build her up again? How does she try to support the ambitions of her kid(s)? But honestly after the also very empty mental health support yada yada she did for H it seems she no real reflected insights whatsoever to contribute. 
I am sure we will get many of those little digs against the RF. It’s the only slightly interesting thing M has to offer at that point. That’s just sad. And it’s not sustainable. At least not if you want to build your own professional profile. At this point they are like a rich version of Uncle Garry.

As I understand it from people who listened to it, Serena couldn’t really get a word in to share her experiences. 

[Baxter]

I agree that if Archie had been hurt it would have been a different story and then they should have canceled events. Maybe even if Archie was older and was upset about the fire then maybe you could understand them wanting to cancel events. But as it was, he was a small baby who didn't have a clue what was happening. He was with his nanny whom Meghan liked. He was ok. My family is all about talking about or feelings and being sensitive but on the flip side if something needs to get done then you just need to do it. 

Do you think if Meghan was almost in a car accident on her way to an important audition in the past, she would have decided not to go. I think not. This is the sort of situation where you call someone in your support network on the way to the event or after the event and talk through it and then move on with what else needs to be done. She just likes to complain. 

 

[viii]

38 minutes ago, Baxter said:

She just likes to complain. 

Ding ding ding. We have a winner!

[tabitha2]

Complain and play the eternal Victim who lives in a cruel cruel world … Expected to fulfill obligations and do things she doesn’t feel like doing! I mean It’s outrageous! And I bet nobody even asked the poor dear how she was doing.