Fundie Women And Lust

[debrand]

Knight mentioned on the other thread that fundies are just beginning to realize that some women get turned on by men's physical attributes.

Really?

Fundies(and even some conservative Christians)have a lot invested in the fable that sexual response always differs according to whether a person is male or female. So in their minds, women always respond to emotional cues and men always respond to visual cues. That is why so much emphasis is put on women dressing to protect men from lust. The Rebelution Survey , for example, does not have a corresponding survey for women.

The dishonesty that must occur in a fundie women's heads to continue that lie is mind boggling. Even women who aren't turned on by a nice male body or a pretty pair of eyes, knows that other women are. I remember overhearing the mother of a former boyfriend discussing how good looking some football players looked in their tight pants.

Why do you think that fundie women perpetuate what they must know is a lie? If they really believed that sexual thoughts were sinful, it would seem that they would want to be honest in order to help other women.

Although to be honest, there really is nothing a man could do to prevent me from having any sexual thoughts. They just pop into my head. If all men wore heavy sacks that covered them from head to foot, I'd still notice voices or nice cologne. This leads me to believe that the lie is not only from woman to woman but man to woman. Men must know that nothing the woman does or wear is going to prevent him from having an occasional sexual thought.

[BravaAmica]

Knight mentioned on the other thread that fundies are just beginning to realize that some women get turned on by men's physical attributes.

Really?

Fundies(and even some conservative Christians)have a lot invested in the fable that sexual response always differs according to whether a person is male or female. So in their minds, women always respond to emotional cues and men always respond to visual cues. That is why so much emphasis is put on women dressing to protect men from lust. The Rebelution Survey , for example, does not have a corresponding survey for women.

The dishonesty that must occur in a fundie women's heads to continue that lie is mind boggling. Even women who aren't turned on by a nice male body or a pretty pair of eyes, knows that other women are. I remember overhearing the mother of a former boyfriend discussing how good looking some football players looked in their tight pants.

Why do you think that fundie women perpetuate what they must know is a lie? If they really believed that sexual thoughts were sinful, it would seem that they would want to be honest in order to help other women.

I think they care more about looking good in front of their church than helping other women.

[debrand]

I think they care more about looking good in front of their church than helping other women.

This is probably why some bloggers appear to want to one up one another in the modesty department.

"You wear skirts? Well, I wear long skirts and baggy shirts. I am the better Christian. Pbbt.. :snooty: "

[Extricated]

To admit that women lust over men would mean that they have sinful sexual thought lives. No Christian woman wants to admit that. It also means that men would have to dress more modestly and (the men) don't want women telling them how to dress. Especially with the things that turn some women on. Hello forearms! ;)

One upmanship is a major part of fundy blogging and really the lifestyle in general. It's all about appearance which is why you see so much frustration and hate. Christian fundamentalist womanhood is one giant competition with the ones that rise to the top being followed until they can be picked apart and another rises to the top. If they were really trying to make God happy it would all look much different and nobody would blog about it out of humility and respect for individuality.

p.s. I really hate the term fundamentalist. Fundamentalist Christianity is anything but someone following the fundamentals of the faith but I can't think of a better term.

[jenny_islander]

The mental balancing act of fundamentalism depends on perpetuating the weird delusion of women as sexless (yet instantly infinitely irresistibly tempting) angels of the house and men as helplessly sexually insatiable (yet more rational and thoughtful) protectors of women (but only if they stay covered up and quiet). Their interpretation of the Bible, their politics, marriage customs . . . everything that identifies fundamentalists as separate from us sinful goats would come crashing down if they let go of this delusion. So any stray thought that reality, that pesky object, doesn't agree with the model must be quashed.

People do walk away. But the longer you've spent in fundamentalism, the more you have invested in it, and the harder it is to let go. It can mean losing your whole identity. I'm sure that former fundamentalists posting here can give specifics.

[AnnoDomini]

This is something of a misconception that's easy to make if you're just looking cursorily. All the fundies that I grew up around (ok, mostly my family, but we did go to church for a while until the Camping end of the church age thing) understood that men were far more visually oriented than women, and women were less visually oriented. See the difference? It's hard to see if you're just taking a cursory look to snark (though I don't blame you if you do) but it's not 'men are always only turned on by visuals and women are never turned on by visuals'. It's simply, according to fundy belief, visuals are stronger for one gender than the other.

[debrand]

p.s. I really hate the term fundamentalist. Fundamentalist Christianity is anything but someone following the fundamentals of the faith but I can't think of a better term.

I have the same feelings about the term but until someone comes up with a better term we are stuck with the word, fundamentalism.

[debrand]

This is something of a misconception that's easy to make if you're just looking cursorily. All the fundies that I grew up around (ok, mostly my family, but we did go to church for a while until the Camping end of the church age thing) understood that men were far more visually oriented than women, and women were less visually oriented. See the difference? It's hard to see if you're just taking a cursory look to snark (though I don't blame you if you do) but it's not 'men are always only turned on by visuals and women are never turned on by visuals'. It's simply, according to fundy belief, visuals are stronger for one gender than the other.

My point is that fundie women are lying. They have to be. There is no way that they can really believe that a large portion of women don't get turned on the same way that they stereotype men as doing.

I think that a lot more women than we realize have a reaction similar to my own. Perhaps I'm in a minority of women but if so, it is a LARGE minority. If the goal is to pretect people from lust, there are enough women who are get turned on by visuals for men to have to cover up also.

I used to be fundie and sometimes I think that the mindset temporarily drove me insane. Really, it was a dark, dark time for me. :cry:

edited to make the third sentence mean what I wanted it to do.

[keen23]

Debrand, I'm also very visual. And I'm a woman. And I can have very lusty thoughts about a man, based purely on a visual- be it a football player's butt, a drummers forearm, or a pair of Mormon Missionary boys in their adorable suits at my front door.

[Bookworm]

I'm not sure really what the deal is with the women don't care about looks thing. Having grown up that way, I used to be embarrased many times when church guys would sit around with their legs open, for example, and wonder if I was the only one who thought it was a little immodest. I did not really think of my thoughts as being lust, though, because I was not sitting there imagining doing the whole thing with them - whereas I think my brothers basically thought noticing a woman's breasts or lips or whatever meant they were lusting. This sort of belief system is really hell on guys.

[persuaded]

Wellll... maybe because many many women are not turned on visually, and many more are only minimally aroused? I know that's always been the case for me... to the point where I barely even notice when a guy is "hot" in the physical sense of the word. :oops: On the other hand, a man's more intangible qualities will sometimes really make me sit up and take notice.

Here's an example: several years ago I attended church with a couple. The woman was so lovely, gracious and sweet natured, annnd she was absolutely beautiful physically. I never could quite figure out what she saw in her husband- he was so coarse, egotistical and terribly unkind (after our beloved dog was suddenly killed he told my then 7yodd that she'd never see him again since dogs don't have souls and therefore won't be in heaven. ugh, I just hate that kind of thing.) Anyhoo, I was pondering this once when they were up in front of the church one Sunday and my girlfriend sitting next to me gave a little sigh and said, "They are just the perfect couple... they're both so gorgeous." I was so startled and it was like the scales fell from my eyes. I suddenly realized that he actually was very very handsome, very physically fit.. the whole nine yards. His personality was so repellent to me that it never even registered that he was sexually attractive. On the other hand the most sexually attractive man I ever knew was a skinny little bald guy with bad teeth, lol. For me it has everything to do with who a man is and virtually nothing to do with what he looks like.

Add to all that, the fact that whether someone is sexually attractive or not just isn't something that is discussed in most fundy circles. So, the women who are stimulated visually and the women who stimulated more by a man's personality or by relational factors aren't really going to be sharing notes on the subject. Obviously women are on a continuum on the matter and I do think most folks (fundies included) realize that. BTW, men's modesty is a subject that does get discussed and addressed- the whole collared shirts and no shorts is part of an attempt to set modesty standards for both genders.

[debrand]

Wellll... maybe because many many women are not turned on visually, and many more are only minimally aroused? I know that's always been the case for me... to the point where I barely even notice when a guy is "hot" in the physical sense of the word. :oops: On the other hand, a man's more intangible qualities will sometimes really make me sit up and take notice.

I don't think that many, many women aren't turned on visually. I think that quite a lot are. They might not be in the majority but they do make up a large minority. If that wasn't true, we wouldn't have defrauding threads with photos. :lol: But I don't want anyone to think that they are odd if they don't get turned on by the same things I do either.

Here's an example: several years ago I attended church with a couple. The woman was so lovely, gracious and sweet natured, annnd she was absolutely beautiful physically. I never could quite figure out what she saw in her husband- he was so coarse, egotistical and terribly unkind

Sometimes a person can be physically attractive and yet act in such an ugly manner that they are repulsive to me. Sometimes a person can become more attractive to me because they are so sweet and kind. Most people have something about them that is attractive. I really didn't think that my husband was attractive when I first met him, but the more he talked, the more I noticed his pretty blue eyes and his bright smile.

Add to all that, the fact that whether someone is sexually attractive or not just isn't something that is discussed in most fundy circles. So, the women who are stimulated visually and the women who stimulated more by a man's personality or by relational factors aren't really going to be sharing notes on the subject. Obviously women are on a continuum on the matter and I do think most folks (fundies included) realize that. BTW, men's modesty is a subject that does get discussed and addressed- the whole collared shirts and no shorts is part of an attempt to set modesty standards for both genders.

I think that fundies need to ask themselves is it really reasonable for anyone to be responsible for another person's desires. Honestly, if men covered their entire bodies, women would find something attractive. And the same is true of men. Sexual respone is natural. It happens. You can't really control it. You can control how you act on those responses, though. It is almost senseless to ask another person to help you in this matter.

[persuaded]

I think that fundies need to ask themselves is it really reasonable for anyone to be responsible for another person's desires. Honestly, if men covered their entire bodies, women would find something attractive. And the same is true of men. Sexual respone is natural. It happens. You can't really control it. You can control how you act on those responses, though. It is almost senseless to ask another person to help you in this matter.

I wholeheartedly agree with you here. Lust is part of the human condition... if it weren't, well there wouldn't be a human condition. It's kinda necessary for the propagation of the species :D From a fundy perspective I have heard fire used as an analogy for lust. Fire can cause terrible injury and destruction or it can be of great benefit and cause great pleasure.. all depending on where it is and if it is kept within certain boundaries. A rampant fire in the middle of a forest= bad. A robust fire in the fireplace= fantastic. Lust within marriage is viewed as a wonderful thing. That said, I don't really care for random strangers or other people's spouses to be lusting after me (not that that is a even a concern at this point in my life given my scraggly gray hair and rather Weeble-esque physique, lol.) At this point for me it has to do with self respect and personal boundaries... if that makes sense. This is basically the tack I have taken as I discussed the matter with my daughters as they have grown up. I would never place the burden of another person's lust on their backs. All of my girls have chosen to be dresses only, although they are generally very style conscious and avoid the whole frumper thing. My one daughter is quite modest in her clothing choices and my other one... not so much.

[GenerationCedarchip]

Knight mentioned on the other thread that fundies are just beginning to realize that some women get turned on by men's physical attributes.

Really?

Fundies(and even some conservative Christians)have a lot invested in the fable that sexual response always differs according to whether a person is male or female. So in their minds, women always respond to emotional cues and men always respond to visual cues. That is why so much emphasis is put on women dressing to protect men from lust. The Rebelution Survey , for example, does not have a corresponding survey for women.

The dishonesty that must occur in a fundie women's heads to continue that lie is mind boggling. Even women who aren't turned on by a nice male body or a pretty pair of eyes, knows that other women are. I remember overhearing the mother of a former boyfriend discussing how good looking some football players looked in their tight pants.

Why do you think that fundie women perpetuate what they must know is a lie? If they really believed that sexual thoughts were sinful, it would seem that they would want to be honest in order to help other women.

Although to be honest, there really is nothing a man could do to prevent me from having any sexual thoughts. They just pop into my head. If all men wore heavy sacks that covered them from head to foot, I'd still notice voices or nice cologne. This leads me to believe that the lie is not only from woman to woman but man to woman. Men must know that nothing the woman does or wear is going to prevent him from having an occasional sexual thought.

I would agree with Knight that fundy men are just starting to realize this. As someone who used to be on the fundie-farm, I can tell you it's a lot more complicated for women.

As some have mentioned, there is definitely an element of "fundier than thou" showing off that goes on there. However, keep in mind that while the reformed church at least seems to have the idea that sex and lust inside of marriage is fine and dandy, outside of marriage it is bad, bad, bad. When you grow up with that mindset, if you feel yourself getting turned on by the sight of some really gorgeous guy, that's not something a fundie woman is going to admit to. This is partly the fear of judgment by others, but there's also an element of self-doubt there and of wondering whether it's sinful to be thinking like this or even whether Satan is tempting one. For those reasons, most fundie girls and women probably wouldn't even admit these feelings to themselves, let alone voice them openly.

Some women in evangelical and fundy-lite circles are starting to talk about these things and that has begun to trickle down into private conversations at least my extended family's fundie church. However, I'd be surprised to see much of that discussion out in the open anytime soon.

[ChunkyBarbie]

Yeah, women aren't turned on visually. That is why Danny Devito is a considered a total hottie and Brad Pitt is meh. Puh-leeze!

ETA. I think more woman are turned on visually than they care to admit.

[Guest Anonymous]

I think the biggest sex organ on a human is their brain. Yes there are physical cues, olfactory and visual that may heighten lust, desire or attraction.

Many years ago I saw a man at a public meeting, a ginger, ya knew he was gonna get paunchy and balding as he aged, but there was a way he carried himself, what he expressed and how he expressed himself that added a frisson to the visual. All of that package made him a sexual object and the focus of some of my sexual fantasies. A decade later we became lovers, he did become paunchy and lost some hair, but his voice and his mind sealed the deal.

Admittedly as an elder I sit in sidewalk cafes ogling men and women with bad intent. I do strip men and women nekkid in my mind, and sometimes, they become the faceless objects of my sexual fantasies. Its so sad that a fundy female can't indulge or get in touch with her own lust, be she married or single.

I do wonder at times if these less than sexualized woman masturbate, with guilt, or practice an infantile frottage with their pillows in bed at night. Such a waste of lifeforce IMHO, and a sad way to live.

[Kishiria]

Women aren't turned on by the sight of men. Uh-huh. I guess that's why the lads in "True Blood" are so interchangeable. /sarcasm.

I am totally defrauded by Alexander Skarsgard (Eric Northman).

[slh12280]

Um I am a conservative Christian and I can "appreciate" a nice male form. Even when they are dressed modestly :o Well I am 21. But I don't think that noticing is the same thing as lusting.

[Guest Anonymous]

Um I am a conservative Christian and I can "appreciate" a nice male form. Even when they are dressed modestly :o Well I am 21. But I don't think that noticing is the same thing as lusting.

Is appreciate the same as wet? Sorry to be so crass, but lust should never be dry.

[titus2_4u]

Spend an hour on pinterest and the whole "women aren't visual creatures" argument goes up in flames.

[bananacat]

Here's the thing: Patriarchy only looks at things from a hetero male view. The male leaders cannot imagine being physically attracted to men (well the ones who aren't closet cases). So they absolutely cannot comprehend anyone being physically attracted to men. If they don't like something, then it is just generally unlikable. And this isn't restricted to fundies. Even a lot of mainstream men have trouble understanding how I could be attracted to them physically. I've actually heard homophobic comments that being gay for men is wrong, because it's so weird that a man would be attracted to another man, and this commenter never even considered that most hetero women are attracted to men.

I also think that because fundies fear so sex so much, they can't stand the thought of a woman having sexual thoughts. They're supposed to completely innocent. Within fundie-ism, girls are taught that they aren't supposed to have sexual desire for men in the same way that men desire women. So when adolescent girls actually have those thoughts about boys, they assume they are the only one, that are freaks, and that they will never admit to being this odd woman who physically lusts after men.

[slh12280]

So having a "crush" would be considered a purely emotional thing with no physical component if they believe women don't care about that. Oh yeah, good women don't have crushes. Oops :oops:

[galaxygirl]

I have all sorts of lusty thought about the guy in my avatar and my husband makes fun of me for it. I also really enjoy watching Olympic men's swimming, now that's a seriously defrauding sport.

[FireIsCatching89]

I have all sorts of lusty thought about the guy in my avatar and my husband makes fun of me for it. I also really enjoy watching Olympic men's swimming, now that's a seriously defrauding sport.

I prefer gymnastics, myself...oooooh!

[VintageJen1984]

I have all sorts of lusty thought about the guy in my avatar and my husband makes fun of me for it. I also really enjoy watching Olympic men's swimming, now that's a seriously defrauding sport.

Hahaha, just yesterday I was going to tell you that your icon was defraudalicious, but my computer was being freezey.