Praying for Resurrection

[dripcurl]

This is so heartbreaking. I have had friends who were loosely associated with Bethel who firmly believed in resurrection. What is even more baffling is how big Christian names such as Darlene Zschech, Kari Job, and Phil Whickam are affirming this. I was never into Christian music and luckily my parents never forced it upon us, but I was deep enough into Evangelicalism to understand that the celebrity element calls for at least appearing level headed. I hope this family can heal. Such strange circumstances too.

[Cat Damon]

1 hour ago, Four is Enough said:

I can't see a GFM here except for medical bills. But according to what I've seen, there weren't any?

I see that it's categorized as "Accidents and Emergencies" - maybe to get around them not having medical bills? If it was categorized for medical bills and there weren't any, then GFM would consider that to be fraud, correct?

I'm not a parent, so I have no idea what they are going through, but I really hope they start to realize that their little girl isn't coming back so that they can start to heal and also focus on their still-living older daughter. That little girl is probably so lost and confused, it makes my heart hurt for the whole family.

[dripcurl]

Just now, Cat Damon said:

I see that it's categorized as "Accidents and Emergencies" - maybe to get around them not having medical bills? If it was categorized for medical bills and there weren't any, then GFM would consider that to be fraud, correct?

I'm not a parent, so I have no idea what they are going through, but I really hope they start to realize that their little girl isn't coming back so that they can start to heal and also focus on their still-living older daughter. That little girl is probably so lost and confused, it makes my heart hurt for the whole family.

I would almost say it’s to cover funeral expenses, but they are not planning for that, so I am very confused.

[Rachel333]

It does look like the person who set the GFM up might anticipate funeral expenses.

Quote

Along with the overwhelming shock and devastation of losing their daughter are the unforeseeable expenses the Heiligenthal family will incur, medical and otherwise.

 

[Giraffe]

How long do you wait to decide she’s dead-dead and not coming back? What a mindf* this is!

[dripcurl]

6 minutes ago, Giraffe said:

How long do you wait to decide she’s dead-dead and not coming back? What a mindf* this is!

Agreed, how long are they going to wait? Not to be morbid and I say the following with the utmost respect toward’s Baby Olive: It’s been over three days now, the deterioration should start to become visible. But if they believe and miraculous Resurrection then they definitely will believe in miraculous healing, so whatever deterioration incurs they probably think would be healed. How long will the coroner’s office keep her though?

[SassyPants]

Aside from the resurrection issue, I’d like to know more about the circumstances surrounding the catastrophic incident  that led to her death. Whose care was she in? It seems the parents traveled quite a bit without the kids ( recently in Paris and then SF). Didn’t they have any family near by or available to come if they, the parents, were far away? 

[mango_fandango]

I think she was found not breathing by a family friend. That sounds like it could’ve been some underlying medical issue that hadn’t been picked up. Maybe something like SIDS but applies to older children. I know there’s also SADS (sudden adult death syndrome). 

[Rachel333]

11 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

Aside from the resurrection issue, I’d like to know more about the circumstances surrounding the catastrophic incident  that led to her death. Whose care was she in? It seems the parents traveled quite a bit without the kids ( recently in Paris and then SF). Didn’t they have any family near by or available to come if they, the parents, were far away? 

There's not a lot we know, but it sounds like there was no catastrophic incident, she simply died suddenly.  The mother just says she "stopped breathing," while the friend says that she "lost her life suddenly in the early morning hours while with sitters." People have been saying it must be SUDC (sudden unexplained death in childhood), but I would imagine there would be an investigation to exclude other factors.

[SassyPants]

15 minutes ago, Rachel333 said:

There's not a lot we know, but it sounds like there was no catastrophic incident, she simply died suddenly.  The mother just says she "stopped breathing," while the friend says that she "lost her life suddenly in the early morning hours while with sitters." People have been saying it must be SUDC (sudden unexplained death in childhood), but I would imagine there would be an investigation to exclude other factors.

Down the rabbit hole on SUDC. Thankfully, it’s a very, very, very rare occurrence, and I agree, I do imagine there will be a full investigation.

[Beermeet]

I have been following this because I read a lot on Bethel. Since I made the topic above.  They are very weird, totally into resurrection and people or the church have been sued for not helping an injured person who fell down a cliff.  They prayed, danced and giggled instead.  They are heavy on acting silly  aka " drunk for Jesus".

This is nuts even for Bethel.  Poor Olive has been dead for 4 days and her mother leading resurrection services jumping around is heavily disturbing.  Poor Olives sister. Where is she in this mess.  It seems a lot of commentators think this is a coma type situation but it's not.  A "preacher" said she's at the morgue in a video.  This is really awful and I fail to see why people at Bethel are letting this go on. As many have said on Reddit,  they might have backed themselves into a corner here.  Resurrection belief + grief stricken Bethel leader= this.  

[emesbe]

I wonder if they killed this little girl and are making all this ruckus to assuage guilt.

[ven]

I have a very difficult time with processing all this , what strikes me the most is that probably a few thousand little girls died in the last 4 days worldwide , why can this church even exploit  the first stage of grief this mother experiences like that ?  Aka * merits* a special treatment beyond being called home to the god they so much believe in. Is that not their ultimate goal to live forever in heaven with everyone they love ? And to trust in gods decisions about life and death? They are obviously in kubler -ross stage one of denial in the grieving process... what does this bethel church gains from putting a devastated mother on stage like that ? Moneys ? Social media fame ? There is so little respect for her loss that it irks me beyond words. Arff. I am closely following this disaster to see how they will cope with her not ressurecting ... a funeral can only be postponed for so many days 

 

[Fruitcake]

Day 4 is a really good day for resurrection too. Good enough to hold a huge event. Stop this madness! Thank Rufus there is no live-stream. Can't even.

 

[Wolf in Sheeples’ Clothing]

4 hours ago, dripcurl said:

Agreed, how long are they going to wait? Not to be morbid and I say the following with the utmost respect toward’s Baby Olive: It’s been over three days now, the deterioration should start to become visible. But if they believe and miraculous Resurrection then they definitely will believe in miraculous healing, so whatever deterioration incurs they probably think would be healed. How long will the coroner’s office keep her though?

Bolding mine:

This is what Pope John Paul II looked like at his funeral, which was held six days after his passing.

You can see some deterioration already happening. 

[Marmion]

This whole situation sort of reminds me of this scene from the movie  " Colonial" .  ( starting from 3:39 ) 

 Also coincidentally , both Bethel , Redding , and Colonia Dignidad had been based upon the teachings of William Branham . 

Quote

6. Bill Johnson & Kris Vallotton are both big fans of the creepy cult leader William Branham (1909-1965). Branham was so detached from Biblical Christianity that even Word of Faith founder Kenneth Hagin called him a false teacher and predicted he would die two years before it happened from a car accident in 1965. Although he died on Dec. 24, 1965, Branham's followers refused to bury his body since they believed he would rise from the dead. They finally gave up and buried him on April 11th of the next year. Branham didn't believe in the Trinity. Branham believed he was the end-time "Elijah." Branham taught that Eve and the serpent had sexual intercourse and Cain was born, and that consequently every woman potentially carried the literal seed of the devil, so he always believed women to be inferior and untrustworthy. Branham was a pathological liar who told many variations of stories for decades with conflicting details. Bill Johnson and Kris Vallotton have stated that they want the "mantle" of William Branham.

https://www.piratechristian.com/messedupchurch/2018/2/10-reasons-why-bethel-redding-is-a-false-church  

Quote

Reuters tied William Branham to Paul Schafer in a news report in 2012 which stated:

Schaefer followed the teachings of American preacher William M. Branham, one of the founders of the "faith healing" movement in the 1940s and ‘50s. Born in a log cabin in Kentucky, Branham said he had been visited by angels and attracted tens of thousands of followers with sermons that advocated a strict adherence to the Bible, a woman's duty to obey her husband and apocalyptic visions, such as Los Angeles sinking beneath the ocean.[1

William Branham knew Paul Schafer and said this about him:

And I heard a Baptist preacher say the other day, which is a good friend of mine, Dr. Schafer, a dear, godly, beloved brother. And I'm not just saying about the Baptist, the Methodists has got that kind, too. My associate pastor of my church is a Methodist from Asbury College. He's a godly, borned again, Holy Ghost filled man. Yes, sir. And old Mordecai F. Hamm, and many of those old Baptists was filled with the Holy Ghost.[2

http://en.believethesign.com/index.php?title=Paul_Schafer  

[adidas]

Support services of some kind need yo step in for those parents. This is not healthy. 

[Giraffe]

21 minutes ago, adidas said:

Support services of some kind need yo step in for those parents. This is not healthy. 

Agreed. It’s compounding the tragedy to have that “service” to raise her. The poor sister! What a confusing, painful time without all the expectation she’ll be resurrected. This must add so much trauma to the grief later on when they accept she’s permanently dead. I hope this opens up Bethel to new critics! 
 

Hey Mr Atheist, I’ve got a show idea for you! 

[Don'tlikekoolaid]

This is the saddest thing I’ve seen in a long time.  

[Carol]

I have great sympathy for this little girl, she died too soon.

While this is not a popular thing to say, I think the parents, the church and the congregation are dangerously deluded.  Why did they think she would rise again after death?  What solid, scientific evidence do they have that this happens?  Do they understand the heartache of this kind of a belief?  Do they understand that they believe a lie?  Clearly not.

Seriously, someone take these fools and shake them into consciousness.  I am very sorry for their other child, this is a travesty. 

[HeadshipRegent]

The fact that Lori Alexander had a reasonable take on this situation says a lot.  ?

I feel so awful saying this but is there any chance that this might be fabricated by Bethel? Has anything concrete been reported outside of christian websites?

[dripcurl]

16 minutes ago, HeadshipRegent said:

The fact that Lori Alexander had a reasonable take on this situation says a lot.  ?

I feel so awful saying this but is there any chance that this might be fabricated by Bethel? Has anything concrete been reported outside of christian websites?

I honestly would not put it past them.

[Howl]

Just came across this on twitter: 

 

[AmazonGrace]

If someone believes in an omnipotent deity of course he COULD resurrect a person. 

But if someone believes in reality they know he won't

 

[JermajestyDuggar]

This church needs to be investigated. This is disturbing.