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freethemall
2 hours ago, Pecansforeveryone said:

Yes and yes. People can talk about grandparents "spoiling" grandchildren all the time but even that is not an unlimited entity. I mean if someone were raising their children vegetarian, theywould be livid if your parents snuck them a bacon cheeseburger. I do think Kim and Barry are too strict. I despise threats of hellfire and shunning. It damaged me greatly. However, if on an overnight to their grandparents my young children were say allowed to watch an R rated movie that would be the end of overnights at grandparents for a minute. 

Agreed. My mother is a grandma I have to set firm boundaries with, and at this point I've never allowed an overnight but hes still only 4. She disregards not just food rules (not that we have any really but I prefer limited sugar) but safety rules, so I wouldn't be surprised if she'd put him in a car not in a car seat. Grandparents have to respect parental rules too, as do siblings. 

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Heck. My kids don’t know who the president is and that’s fine by me.  

Hell, I wish I didn't know who the president is!

How fucking sad is it that we live in a world where we have to shield children from the president. I completely understand why people do it; I'm not insulting the fact that you have to, just that damn

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feministxtian
19 minutes ago, freethemall said:

Grandparents have to respect parental rules too, as do siblings. 

YES!!!! I am not the parent anymore. Its no longer my rules. There are some compromises made under the guise of "only with Grandma" but for the most part it's like this...not MY kid, not MY rules. Fortunately we have a pretty open communication line so everyone stays on the same page. 

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Natalie22

I get the idea behind they both need to respect each other's boundaries, but just remember that Ethan and Olivia are like 22 and got married at 20.  Expecting two 20 year olds with that amount of trauma and sheltering and lack of life experience to be equal at setting boundaries with two people in their 40s is just unfair.  I often work with students who are about 10 years younger than I am, but they're all adults.  I still realize my life experience and understanding how to navigate work situations is usually much more advanced than theirs.  I try to be compassionate and patient and also explain to them explicitly how things usually work and ideas of how to navigate our relationship.  I do this not because I think they're dumb or not capable, but that I understand that I have a huge advantage over them and it is unfair to just expect them to figure it out on their own (especially if you want them to figure it out 'correctly' and/or quickly).  That two parents are unable to do the same for their child is silly.

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PurpleCats

Olivia posted yesterday-ish on her stories that she isn’t doing weddings the summer of 2022 because they “have something special planned” and I’m terrified that they’re going to have a baby.  From what we see on tv, they need to spend some more time maturing and getting past the trauma from the way they were raised.  
 

I am skeptical that their relationship will last long term, but I hope they are in a much better place relationship wise before adding a baby. Babies (especially newborns) bring a ton of stress in to even the best relationship.  I want the best for them, and I actually think they will be loving parents, but I hope their relationship is truly ready for the stresses of a child.

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JermajestyDuggar
44 minutes ago, PurpleCats said:

Olivia posted yesterday-ish on her stories that she isn’t doing weddings the summer of 2022 because they “have something special planned” and I’m terrified that they’re going to have a baby.  From what we see on tv, they need to spend some more time maturing and getting past the trauma from the way they were raised.  
 

I am skeptical that their relationship will last long term, but I hope they are in a much better place relationship wise before adding a baby. Babies (especially newborns) bring a ton of stress in to even the best relationship.  I want the best for them, and I actually think they will be loving parents, but I hope their relationship is truly ready for the stresses of a child.

She seems like she wants to hold off on having a baby for awhile. Plus she has to be smart enough to know you can’t always plan exactly when you’ll get pregnant and when you’ll give birth. So I’m gonna guess it’s something else. Like traveling through Europe during that summer. 

Edited by JermajestyDuggar
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freethemall
5 hours ago, PurpleCats said:

Olivia posted yesterday-ish on her stories that she isn’t doing weddings the summer of 2022 because they “have something special planned” and I’m terrified that they’re going to have a baby.  From what we see on tv, they need to spend some more time maturing and getting past the trauma from the way they were raised.  
 

I am skeptical that their relationship will last long term, but I hope they are in a much better place relationship wise before adding a baby. Babies (especially newborns) bring a ton of stress in to even the best relationship.  I want the best for them, and I actually think they will be loving parents, but I hope their relationship is truly ready for the stresses of a child.

They wouldn't know at this point if they were having a baby then and even if they were hoping to conceive I doubt she'd block off such specific months without blocking the immediate ones after. Seems more likely to be a travel plan.

She has talked about them deliberately waiting while they sort out their issues, mature, and explore.

Edited by freethemall
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llucie
5 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

She seems like she wants to hold off on having a baby for awhile. Plus she has to be smart enough to know you can’t always plan exactly when you’ll get pregnant and when you’ll give birth. So I’m gonna guess it’s something else. Like traveling through Europe during that summer. 

Travelling trough europe this summer? that seems rather optimistic.

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JermajestyDuggar
30 minutes ago, llucie said:

Travelling trough europe this summer? that seems rather optimistic.

What I quoted said summer 2022 not 2021. If it’s 2021 then it could be a pregnancy. But I still doubt it.

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llucie
10 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

What I quoted said summer 2022 not 2021. If it’s 2021 then it could be a pregnancy. But I still doubt it.

Oh my bad then, i didnt think they were already making plans for 2022. Then it must be something like that because planning a baby 2 years in advance seems too odd and for a work related project it seems a lot of time to wait.

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QuiverFullofBooks
1 hour ago, freethemall said:

She has talked about them deliberately waiting while they sort out their issues, mature, and explore.

Did she say that on social media? On the show she makes a lot of comments that suggest she plans babies pretty soon. She put the tantric teacher’s name on her baby name list. It’s odd, because they’ve been married way too long to have not used birth control; they would be talking about infertility now. But there also hasn’t been a “we’re trying to get pregnant and I don’t want Barry and Kim around my kids” storyline.

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freethemall
12 hours ago, QuiverFullofBooks said:

Did she say that on social media? On the show she makes a lot of comments that suggest she plans babies pretty soon. She put the tantric teacher’s name on her baby name list. It’s odd, because they’ve been married way too long to have not used birth control; they would be talking about infertility now. But there also hasn’t been a “we’re trying to get pregnant and I don’t want Barry and Kim around my kids” storyline.

Yes, here is the very first answer from the q&a she did on her stories (public, saved in her highlights).

Screenshot_20210120-080244_Instagram.jpg

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April83

Just started watching the new series now it's available in UK. Loving seeing the older ones grow and explore the 'world' more. I find watching Lydia heartbreaking tho. The religious guilt she carries and sense of responsibility she has for the rest of the family situation is so hard to watch. Also can't believe she has a actual prayer closet. 😂😂

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front hugs > duggs

I just watched what I think was the last episode of the season, where Ethan decides to confront his parents. I found it heartbreaking to watch as a child whose parent(s) did not define boundaries and tended to victimize themselves against their own daughter. 

1. I think Ethan really needed to do this for himself. I think he was really upset with himself for not sticking up for Olivia in the past and I hope this interaction brings both of them some closure in regards to the hurt that caused previously.

2. It absolutely pained me to hear Kim and Barry continue to vilify their son and his wife, acting innocently while doing so. Ethan at one point said something like, "and this is what you are saying to me on camera, I know what it's really like when you don't have everyone watching you". Then, it angered me to see them take zero responsibility for their actions and literally put all the blame back onto Ethan and Olivia. Even if E+O have hurt the parents, Kim claims that she was hurt but is able to talk to Olivia so Olivia should be able to do the same. She needs to understand that people heal at different times. This is why E+O are trying to set up boundaries, to protect themselves and allow this time to heal. At one point, Isaac (I think? The younger son?) implored Barry and Ethan to say something nice to each other. Barry said, "I love you, even with all the vitriol you've thrown at me" and even Isaac was like WTF dad can't you say "I love you" and end it there?

I was broken hearted that all the little kids had to see this playout. The exchange between Olivia and Ethan in the car while they were driving away seemed really genuine - I think she truly is sorry that he isn't able to see his siblings and acknowledges her role. But that also doesn't mean they should bend to Kim and Barry's will, especially if they are gaslighting manipulators, which they seem to be (based on an edited version of them, I understand). It was nice to see Micah and Moriah go over and give all the kids hugs from Ethan and Olivia and ensured them all that they are loved. I'm sad to think about what Kim and Barry may say to the kids though, I hope they aren't poisoning them. Also, Ethan basically confirmed that Kim runs the show and steers Barry's head.

Every time Lydia speaks I just feel so so sad. She seems incredibly devout, but really doesn't seem happy. I think all this family turmoil is really causing her a lot of emotional pain. If anyone is still reading this novel, I'd love to hear your thoughts when Lydia said something about admiring Ethan for standing by his wife, even as it negatively affects her by putting her (Lydia) as further down the list. 

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