2020 Presidential Election 2: The Primaries are upon us

[Ticklish]

Since it's looking more and more like Biden will be the nominee, how do you recommend encouraging moderate friends who are not necessarily "blue no matter who" to vote for him? 

For context- there's a group of 3 friends and myself who are very close and can civilly discuss politics even if we don't always agree. I'm the most liberal and also the most politically aware/informed. 2 have husbands who voted for Trump, though one now regrets that choice. The other remains a Trumper. 2 of us didn't vote in the last election. We all despise Trump, but I'm the only self defined Democrat or Liberal. I convinced all of them to vote in the last midterm election (none ever had before).

One has said she will vote against Trump even if she has to vote for someone she's not wild about. One I'm not sure will vote at all, though I think she will because she hates Trump that much. However, one (the one coincidentally married to the Trumper) has said she really doesn't like Biden or Bernie, it's a really tough choice to vote for either of them, and that she's going to need to hear a lot of good about Biden to convince her. It took all my willpower not to say "...isn't it enough that he's not Trump?" But I generally try to actually hear out the concerns and present what information I can. She's still somewhat hung up on Burisma (though I think I got her past that today) and also said she believes he's a liar about his civil rights record (something her brother supposedly read?) She wouldn't vote for Trump, but I'm concerned that her (and others, since Biden isn't popular in my area) are going to sit out rather than vote. So...what do you say to someone who hates what is currently happening but isn't so convinced that they should vote for Biden?

[Alisamer]

4 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

That was my first example, but Idk if that's even a thing anymore here.  So I went with the next useless holiday.

It needs to be a major mandatory PAID holiday, even if it's just the every-four-years presidential election. I don't get president's day, columbus day, MLK Jr. Day, Easter Monday, any of those off work. I get Christmas Day, Thanksgiving day, New Year's Day, Fourth of July, and EITHER Memorial Day or Good Friday off paid (not both). Small businesses get away with a lot, when it comes to finding ways not to pay people. I love my bosses, but yeah. We get both Memorial Day and Good Friday off work - but only get paid for one of them. 

And Election Day would not be a paid holiday for us, even if it was a federal holiday. The boss would go vote, of course, because he can do what he wants. His wife (who watches Faux News 24/7) would as well. But the rest of us? Nope. We'd be working.

If I was in charge, I'd suggest moving the presidential election to Leap Day (it's already in the correct year) and making that a permanent mandatory paid holiday. It only happens every four years... I think it should be a holiday anyway!

[HerNameIsBuffy]

9 minutes ago, Ticklish said:

So...what do you say to someone who hates what is currently happening but isn't so convinced that they should vote for Biden?

I'd acknowledge he has areas of weakness, as does anyone running due to the scope of the job, and then focus on the one area he will surpass Trump in his sleep...foreign affairs.  

We've got bridged to mend with allies and his experience and yes, charm, will go a long way toward doing that.  He has an ability to connect with people that Trump doesn't even have with his own children.  

The other thing I would hit is while he doesn't have the most progressive platform, he's not the pile of oily rags and lit cigarette which will be Trumps second term.  He works within the system, has for 50+ years (good and bad with that) but Trump only knows how to go rouge.  Trump has no respect for the rule of law and the wheels will come off term 2 when he doesn't have re-election hanging over him to restrain him.  

He isn't perfect - but he isn't hateful and there is nothing in his long record to indicate that he would use the Presidency to line his own pockets.  How many hundreds of millions have we spent on Trump's golf outings?  

Burisma...I sure as hell wish his son was less sketchy, too.  But not like Trump's kids haven't been drinking from the poisoned well with the blessings of their dad.  

13 minutes ago, Alisamer said:

It needs to be a major mandatory PAID holiday

Totally agree!  I wouldn't even be opposed to making it mandatory if there was a system in place everywhere for people do that easily (by mail, early voting, etc.) IF we had a none-of-the-above option.  

If a certain percentage of voters hates both candidates for President and votes for none of the above then start over, parties.  Maybe they'll choose a little more carefully next time.  And if it were mandatory then they could stop with the voter suppression crap.  

 

[fraurosena]

8 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

I'd acknowledge he has areas of weakness, as does anyone running due to the scope of the job, and then focus on the one area he will surpass Trump in his sleep...foreign affairs.  

We've got bridged to mend with allies and his experience and yes, charm, will go a long way toward doing that.  He has an ability to connect with people that Trump doesn't even have with his own children.  

I second what @HerNameIsBuffy said. Biden has a lot of experience, especially in foreign affairs. He is uniquely qualified to mend the bridges Trump burned, because America's allies already know him. They've dealt with him before and he's already respected and liked, based on his track record. That will go a looooong way to fix the ruins of Trump's Putin-inspired foreign... 'policies'. Getting foreign relations back on track is key to keeping the economy going, to minimise the fallout from Trump's idiotic trade wars. Biden was also one of the co-writers of the Paris accords, and he's already stated he will immediately rejoin once he's president. 

That Burisma thing will be bled to death in the coming months. 'Burisma!' in 2020 will be what 'But her emails!' was in 2016. Did Hunter Biden take that job to enrich himself with an overpaid cushy job that was offered to him because his daddy was VP at the time? There's no question in my mind that's what happened. Did he break the law, or was he corrupt himself? I honestly don't know, but I doubt it. Joe Biden went after the corruption in Ukraine; he was instrumental in the international push to get the corrupt Ukrainian AG out -- who refused to investigate Burisma's alleged corruption. Anyone saying anything else about the matter is simply pushing Russian propaganda. 

Like a lot of us here, I'm not a fan of Biden's candidacy. He's one of the geriatric guard, who should step aside already and make room for the next generation(s). Plus, he's way to moderate for my political tastes. But if he turns out to be the Democratic candidate for the presidency, he stands a very good chance of winning, and he won't  be a bad president either. Although... after Trump that's not such a high hurdle. 

 

[Marmion]

5 hours ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

This.  Because with the youngest guy in the race at 76 the VP is pretty damn important this time out.

My guesses based on absolutely nothing is that Joe will pick a woman.  Amy Klobachar, Stacy Abrams, or maybe even Elizabeth Warren.

It just so happens that you are right . https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/471810-biden-reveals-four-women-he-could-pick-as-his-running-mate  Out of these options , I would personally prefer for him to choose Stacy Abrams . I feel that this would help to balance the ticket quite nicely , as she's from a southern state , plus had been a Sanders supporter . So if anything were to bring about party unity , I feel that this would .  If indeed Biden does win the nomination , as he seems likely to do .  P.S. As an aside , I will mention that today I just got three more things in the mail from Mike Bloomberg . I don't know why he has been giving me so much attention , how he got my name , and address , or even why he'd expect I would ever vote for him , over any of the remaining candidates .  Like I posted before in this thread , as long as she doesn't suspend her campaign in the upcoming days before the March 17 primary election , in Ohio , I will be voting for the delegates pledged to Sen. Elizabeth Warren . And then , if Warren doesn't receive enough delegates to be the nominee , her delegates may vote for whomever they see fit . I really don't care that much whether Biden , or Sanders ends up being the nominee . There are things I like , and am concerned about , regarding them both .  Plus , I am the mirror opposite of my sister , politically . And even when John McCain had the nomination in the bag , by the time our state held its primary , she still voted for Huckabee , just because she wanted to show steadfast support . That's what it's like , for Democrats and Republicans alike , here in Ohio . In the primary we have to choose to either follow the crowd , or follow our hearts , when voting in the presidential primary election , because the eventual nominee is more often than not decided before we can get a chance to weigh in . This is why a number of people are advocating having a national primary election , held on the same day .  https://inthesetimes.com/article/19163/the-case-for-a-one-person-one-vote-national-primary-to-elect-our-presidenti

Edited March 4, 2020 by Marmion

[Ticklish]

Thank you @HerNameIsBuffy and @fraurosena for the help with talking points. Foreign policy actually comes up a lot in our discussions, so that would be a very strong point in his favor. 

I was legitimately shook today when she said that because we have spent literal years talking about Trump being a dumpster fire, so to hear that she wasn't going to vote for whoever ran against him...it really concerns me. Her husband will of course be supplying all the Russian propaganda ? I'm hoping that my rational points will help convince her, even though she says she basically knows her vote is just going to cancel out her husband's vote. 

[fraurosena]

9 minutes ago, Ticklish said:

even though she says she basically knows her vote is just going to cancel out her husband's vote. 

You should tell her that that is exactly the point! The more Trump votes are cancelled, the better. 

[Marmion]

Plus , in my case , my vote for the eventual Democratic nominee will be canceled out , not only by the rest of my family , but also by the vast majority of voters in my polling precinct . But I still shall persist in voting my conscience , both out  of , and in season , if nothing else just to let my voice be heard . 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

3 minutes ago, Marmion said:

Plus , in my case , my vote for the eventual Democratic nominee will be canceled out , not only by the rest of my family , but also by the vast majority of voters in my polling precinct . But I still shall persist in voting my conscience , both out  of , and in season , if nothing else just to let my voice be heard . 

My whole family is voting blue, even my fundy sister who used to looooove Trump but now thinks he's the anti-Christ and a couple others who voted for him the first time around but are disgusted now.

Even though my state has been blue for the Presidential elections since 1988, there will be at least two jerks in MAGA hats talking loud smack at my polling place, I guarantee it.

One of my sons worked at the polling place last election (did you guys know they pay you $400 for a days work.  Not bad for a college kid) and he had to deal with the Trumpers all day.  

(Oh, there was an f'up with my registration which I got cleared up (I've moved so wrong addy on registration) so thanks for the reminder to check ahead of time.  

 

[fraurosena]

13 minutes ago, Marmion said:

Plus , in my case , my vote for the eventual Democratic nominee will be canceled out

Nah, your vote is cancelling out one of theirs. 

[Dandruff]

1 hour ago, nausicaa said:

I try to avoid anecdotes because I know the plural isn't data but I was really surprised to have two Trump-hating moderates, including one who I would have described as a firm Democrat, confide in me today that they were not only not going to be able to vote for Sanders, but would have voted Trump in November to avoid him.

Damn. Even my crazy ass would have left it blank before ever voting for Trump. We underestimated this.

I think a good part of why Trump "won" was due to Hillary-hate, which he stoked at every opportunity.  I expect the same this time around.  Hope the Dems can muster up a lot of Trump-hate...it shouldn't be hard to do.

I'll have a hard time voting for Sanders if he's the candidate.  I believe I'd do it, though, and there's no way I'd vote for Trump.  I know other moderate Democrats who would feel similarly challenged, but might vote for Trump.  We need a candidate who's palatable, at the least, to swing and potential swing voters.  My guess is there are a lot of folks out there who voted for Trump but are ambivalent about him now, and a moderate could help win some of them over.

 

[Rachel333]

2 hours ago, Alisamer said:

I really think ranked choice is a better idea than no early voting.

I don't think there should be no early voting! I just think that in the primaries it's probably better to wait if you can. A lot of people this time around were wishing they could change their votes because they voted early for someone who wasn't even in the race on election day.

[Rachel333]

15 hours ago, nausicaa said:

Damn. He might even get Maine. 

Called for him this afternoon!

 

[Marmion]

30 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

My whole family is voting blue, even my fundy sister who used to looooove Trump but now thinks he's the anti-Christ and a couple others who voted for him the first time around but are disgusted now.

Even though my state has been blue for the Presidential elections since 1988, there will be at least two jerks in MAGA hats talking loud smack at my polling place, I guarantee it.

One of my sons worked at the polling place last election (did you guys know they pay you $400 for a days work.  Not bad for a college kid) and he had to deal with the Trumpers all day.  

(Oh, there was an f'up with my registration which I got cleared up (I've moved so wrong addy on registration) so thanks for the reminder to check ahead of time.  

 

I don't think that by law Trump supporters you mentioned are allowed by law to do that .  If the authorities found out , they might have even been brought up on charges . { https://www.npr.org/2018/02/28/584606124/polling-place-battleground-freedom-of-speech-versus-freedom-from-intimidation , https://www.dailynews.com/2016/11/04/what-you-can-and-cant-do-at-polling-places-this-election-day/  , https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2016/10/what-constitutes-illegal-voter-intimidation.html }   And conversely it brings to mind this precedent setting case .  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Black_Panther_Party_voter_intimidation_case 

 

[nausicaa]

For Biden reluctant voters, I would point out how damaging what Trump is doing in the military is. Tom Nichols, a curmudgeonly Never Trumper, is a good resource of informed information for reluctant voters on why getting Trump out of office is so important. 

Also keep in mind, the Republicans losing disastrously in 2020 sends the message that they need to abandon this racist, anti-democratic populist movement.  Campaigns like what works and avoid what doesn't. I'm not just doing this for Democrats. I'm doing this in the hopes of reforming a healthier Republican party.

Edited March 4, 2020 by nausicaa

[formergothardite]

5 minutes ago, nausicaa said:

Also keep in mind, the Republicans losing disastrously in 2020 sends the message that they need to abandon this racist, anti-democratic populist movement.  Campaigns like what works and avoid what doesn't. I'm not just doing this for Democrats. I'm doing this in the hopes of reforming a healthier Republican party.

Exactly. Before the election republicans were trying to back themselves away from Trump because they thought he was going to bring them down. When he won they realized hate works so they embraced it. If they are wiped out in the next election they will go back saying racism and hate is wrong. 

[Dandruff]

1 hour ago, nausicaa said:

For Biden reluctant voters, I would point out how damaging what Trump is doing in the military is.

This is one reason why I'm thinking Buttigieg might be a good idea for the VP pick.  He served and seems to have a really sensible head on his shoulders.  I expect that many in the military would vote for him.  I believe he'd be able to relate well to their needs and be able to effectively analyze situations they may encounter.

Meanwhile, during the time of the Vietnam war, so many were drafted and volunteered to fight for our country and many didn't return.  They exhibited courage, altruism, and honor... 

But Our Nasty Egotistical Sitting President Unfortunately Remained

[Cartmann99]

3 hours ago, Marmion said:

I will mention that today I just got three more things in the mail from Mike Bloomberg . I don't know why he has been giving me so much attention , how he got my name , and address , or even why he'd expect I would ever vote for him , over any of the remaining candidates .

Same. We got four different things from him one day last week.

[nausicaa]

Biden has raised seven million in two days. Damn. 

Also, this is probably more for a policy thread but I just learned that Sanders' Green Plan calls for banning nuclear power. And doesn't call for banning coal, oil, or natural gas. WTF? We would lose 50% of our emissions-free output. I thought we were past the hippie knee jerk "nuclear is bad" days.

It's frustrating that a guy who looks toward Europe for so much can't see the success of their nuclear programs. The more I learn of this guy's actual plans, the more turned off I am. 

Also, his comments today about not resonating with black voters because Biden is apparently exploiting his relationship with Obama is insulting and clearly false (he was doing terribly with black voters long before Biden surged in the polls and Biden won states he didn't even campaign in) and shows Sanders' inability to self-reflect and change course. He's also claiming Biden's campaign was supported by billionaires, which is demonstrably false. The Biden campaign was completely broke going into Super Tuesday and was about to make him start flying commercial. 

[anaandrade]

It's officially a 2-person race. Warren dropped out this morning.

[front hugs > duggs]

5 minutes ago, anaandrade said:

It's officially a 2-person race. Warren dropped out this morning.

3 person. Go Tulsi! 

*heavy sarcasm*

[Destiny]

It's officially a 2-person race. Warren dropped out this morning.

Damn. I knew it was hopeless but still I somehow had hope.

[nausicaa]

Just now, anaandrade said:

It's officially a 2-person race. Warren dropped out this morning.

It will be interesting to see where her votes go. Some people assume they're all going to Sanders, but trends and stats didn't seem to support that and it will be interesting to see how the past few days affect things. A poll showed 40% of Warren voters didn't have Sanders as their second choice. 

(I'm a little salty on this topic, because a Sanders supporting friend of mine claimed voting trends still show that Sanders would do better in the general. His calculations included assuming all of Warren's votes for Sanders but said we couldn't do the same for Bloomberg's votes in Biden's favor.)

[TuringMachine]

10 minutes ago, front hugs > duggs said:

3 person. Go Tulsi! 

I was joking (back when we had a few more candidates) that I had 3 categories for the nominees: Ones that I like, ones that I would vote for over Trump but still don't like, and ones I forget about immediately after being reminded they are running. Tulsi is in that last category. I forgot about her until I read your post, and I expect to forget about her again in like 10 minutes.

Edited March 5, 2020 by TuringMachine

[HerNameIsBuffy]

7 minutes ago, Destiny said:

Damn. I knew it was hopeless but still I somehow had hope.

Me too.  I was still planning on voting for her in a few weeks to make a point.  She made my decision for me.