2020 Presidential Election 2: The Primaries are upon us

[church_of_dog]

On 3/4/2020 at 12:25 PM, Alisamer said:

I really think ranked choice is a better idea than no early voting. I voted early, because I was going to be out of state on Tuesday. I vote early in all elections, TBH, because the one time I didn't the line was hours long and outdoors where it was unexpectedly chilly. I waited, but I think a lot of people wouldn't. And if it's on a weekday? If I don't work, I don't get paid. Going after work is iffy, if traffic is bad I simply won't get there in time. Before work is a guarantee to be late for work. The easier it is to vote, the more people will vote.

But I also think voting day should be a holiday. 

I totally agree about ranked choice voting.  It would make so many things much better.

As for time off work to vote, why not sign up to vote by mail?  You can always drop your ballot off at your polling place (or surrender it for an on-site ballot if you prefer) if you are able to, but anytime the schedule doesn't allow that, you can mail it in.  I switched to vote-by-mail decades ago when I was still working full-time, because I sometimes traveled for work and didn't want to worry about discovering I would be out of town on election day.  Now I still get my mail-in ballot and just bring it with me to drop off (and I'm actually a pollworker).

Edited March 6, 2020 by church_of_dog
more word

[Rachel333]

 

It's really hard to imagine her endorsing Sanders after this.

[fraurosena]

Oh, please make this happen! Let the Dem candidate remark on Jared and Cadre constantly during the debates. And while he’s at it let him also mention Ivanka’s trademarks in China, and junior’s deals in India. And don’t forget Trump not divesting of his companies, profiting off his weekly golf trips, and do on, and so forth.

[fraurosena]

I love it when he’s confronted with questions he can’t answer.

 

[nausicaa]

1 hour ago, Rachel333 said:

 

It's really hard to imagine her endorsing Sanders after this.

None of this is going at all the way I thought. 

 

(Btw, BernieBro dude who I was fighting with slid into my DMs and sorta hit on me? I'm only more confused than ever by just about everything. I think I need to stick to FJ for the time being though. At least no one makes weird passes at me here.)

Edited March 6, 2020 by nausicaa

[Dandruff]

31 minutes ago, nausicaa said:

Btw, BernieBro dude who I was fighting with slid into my DMs and sorta hit on me?

Wait...what?  I'm older, so please forgive me, but what are these "DMs" you're referring to?  Hopefully something virtual.

I also wonder what Warren's next move will be.  Looks like she probably won't be backing Bernie, but I'm not sure what she'd accomplish by backing Biden...unless she's hoping for a counterbalancing role in his administration.  If so, I wonder how many Bernie supporters might vote for Biden vs. not at all if Warren was the VP pick, and how many votes Biden might lose from swing voters, accordingly.  If Biden can't anticipate a net gain then I don't think it would make sense for him to choose her as a running mate, though that wouldn't rule out him giving her another important position.

Meanwhile, I think the overt nastiness of some Sanders supporters - even if they're well in the minority - might start to really hurt Sanders' campaign.  Warren called it out.  It was brought up in the debates.  And while Sanders says he rejects it, a good question is whether he can control it.  If he can't, then how well could he be expected to direct public sentiment and curb outlier behavior if he were to become President?

 

[Smee]

I wonder if Warren will simply not endorse anyone, wait until the nomination is confirmed, then campaign hard on their behalf for November.

[fraurosena]

Why, oh why didn't more Americans vote for her? She is so intelligent and calming and empathetic. She has all the qualities a good president should have. No anger, no fumbles or gaffes. She exudes competence. Damn. What a loss for the country. 

 

[faraway]

I'm confused about these Bernie Bros. I have never seen them or come across them online. The people in my SM radius who endorsed Bernie are mostly women or just regular progressives who believe in him because he has such a long record in fighting for others and not being a corrupt corporate politician. What I do see is a lot of attacks on Bernie coming from the right and also from moderates. The thought of Bernie in the WH seems to make conservatives so uneasy they seem to be almost happy to trade in Trump for Biden just as long as it is no-one on Bernie's level. Funny.

I have to say I never thought Biden was a great choice, he was a cute sidekick to Obama but I don't think he's WH material, he just doesn't have the it-factor for me. ? Also as much as this whole Hunter Biden-Burisma thing was a scam from the right, I don't like the Bidens corporate enmeshments, I think the times for these types of presidents are over.

[danvillebelle]

46 minutes ago, faraway said:

I'm confused about these Bernie Bros. I have never seen them or come across them online. The people in my SM radius who endorsed Bernie are mostly women or just regular progressives who believe in him because he has such a long record in fighting for others and not being a corrupt corporate politician. What I do see is a lot of attacks on Bernie coming from the right and also from moderates. The thought of Bernie in the WH seems to make conservatives so uneasy they seem to be almost happy to trade in Trump for Biden just as long as it is no-one on Bernie's level. Funny.

I have to say I never thought Biden was a great choice, he was a cute sidekick to Obama but I don't think he's WH material, he just doesn't have the it-factor for me. ? Also as much as this whole Hunter Biden-Burisma thing was a scam from the right, I don't like the Bidens corporate enmeshments, I think the times for these types of presidents are over.

Cautiously dipping my toe into this thread to agree with you wholeheartedly.

The compilations that are circulating online of Biden's gaffes, memory lapses and quite frankly WORD SALADS are devastating.  To me, he comes across as addled as Trump, if not worse.   I don't think he has a snowball's chance in hell of beating him, and if he gets the nomination I'm resigned to four more years of the Orange Menace.  

Besides his obvious mental decline, his entire political record is AWFUL.  

[sableduck]

19 minutes ago, danvillebelle said:

Cautiously dipping my toe into this thread to agree with you wholeheartedly.

The compilations that are circulating online of Biden's gaffes, memory lapses and quite frankly WORD SALADS are devastating.  To me, he comes across as addled as Trump, if not worse.   I don't think he has a snowball's chance in hell of beating him, and if he gets the nomination I'm resigned to four more years of the Orange Menace.  

Besides his obvious mental decline, his entire political record is AWFUL.  

There were so many better choices than Biden and Sanders too.  It’s really disappointing that this is where we end up, and I’m not sure that either of them can beat Trump.

 

[danvillebelle]

7 minutes ago, sableduck said:

There were so many better choices than Biden and Sanders too.

I agree with you - but between those two, I'm 100% feelin' the Bern.

[fraurosena]

He does know it's not 2016 anymore, right?

 

[nausicaa]

7 hours ago, Dandruff said:

Wait...what?  I'm older, so please forgive me, but what are these "DMs" you're referring to?  Hopefully something virtual.

Heehee. We were on Twitter and it means he went from our public discussion into direct messaging (DM) me privately. Normally it means direct messaging someone to ask them out/hit on them. In this case he actually looked me up online (I tweet under my real name) and emailed me. Granted, his email was respectful, but it was still just... odd. 

[nausicaa]

2 hours ago, faraway said:

I'm confused about these Bernie Bros. I have never seen them or come across them online. The people in my SM radius who endorsed Bernie are mostly women or just regular progressives who believe in him because he has such a long record in fighting for others and not being a corrupt corporate politician. What I do see is a lot of attacks on Bernie coming from the right and also from moderates.

Just wondering if you use Twitter? That's where I encounter most of the Bernie Bro. stuff. Some of it is a result of running a campaign that appeals heavily to younger voters who can get too caught up in things (and tend to use Twitter more than other demographics). They start viral things like posting rat emojis on Buttigieg supporters' posts and flood the responses to Sanders-critical tweets from prominent accounts. 

The majority of Sanders supporters I know through Facebook (i.e., real life) aren't as nasty, but I do find there is more of reluctance to acknowledge his limitations than Warren/Buttigieg/Biden supporters do their own candidates (i.e., his health issues, his record). 

I don't think Sanders himself necessarily encourages trolling behaviors the same way Trump does, but I do think Sanders could have done more to stop it. A couple paid staff have  trolled people on Twitter and made other unprofessional posts from their official campaign accounts, and I do think he needed to fire those people. 

[SassyPants]

8 hours ago, Smee said:

I wonder if Warren will simply not endorse anyone, wait until the nomination is confirmed, then campaign hard on their behalf for November.

If 2016 is any indication, she will not. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

4 hours ago, faraway said:

I'm confused about these Bernie Bros. I have never seen them or come across them online.

They are all over Reddit.

[faraway]

1 hour ago, nausicaa said:

Just wondering if you use Twitter?

I don't participate but I do check certain pages like hardcore right-wingers, interesting stuff like George Conway and funny pages like the Nunes cow. ?

I honestly take issue with the term "Bernie Bros" to begin with, can anyone prove that these are actual white men trolling? These could also be immature people below voting age or foreigners. I honestly don't see Bernie in any way responsible for what is posted online. He can't influence it anyway. I wish there were any limitations for the internet but that's unfortunately what we have today. Bernie can be called out for his own behaviors and policies but I don't think he should be held accountable for others people's behaviors. 

Edited March 6, 2020 by faraway

[HerNameIsBuffy]

12 minutes ago, faraway said:

Bernie can be called out for his own behaviors and policies but I don't think he should be held accountable for others people's behaviors. 

As @nausicaa said above, he had some official campaign workers harassing people from official accounts.  Had he fired them it would have sent a message, but to my knowledge he did not.

I agree he can't be held responsible for things every person posts on his behalf, but if you read through Reddit it's overwhelmingly Bernie supporters who have the stance Bernie or don't vote at all.  It's also his supporters who refuse to acknowledged any faults or issues on his end and come out verbal guns ablazing no matter how civil anyone is. 

It's a bullying attitude with many (not all of course) that you don't see to the same degree with supporters of other candidates and Bernie absolutely should be addressing it publicly and disavowing himself from those actions.

There are plenty of normal, reasonable, Bernie supporters to be sure.  The bros are a faction, not the whole deal, but the bullying needs to stop. 

[faraway]

I find it hard to discuss this without any factual evidence, I tried googling for a bit and did not come up with much. At least one person involved with the Bernie campaign was fired. That guy's twitter account was private but he posted some awful stuff. 

https://www.thedailybeast.com/bernie-sanders-staffer-mocked-elizabeth-warrens-looks-pete-buttigiegs-sexuality-on-private-twitter-account

Bernie has condemned their actions and called them disgusting so what else should he do? One major problem of our time is that anyone can write anything online at any time. That's a huge issue when it comes to elections but this is the fault of Zuckerberg & Co.

Edited March 6, 2020 by faraway

[Cartmann99]

15 hours ago, church_of_dog said:

As for time off work to vote, why not sign up to vote by mail?  You can always drop your ballot off at your polling place (or surrender it for an on-site ballot if you prefer) if you are able to, but anytime the schedule doesn't allow that, you can mail it in.  I switched to vote-by-mail decades ago when I was still working full-time, because I sometimes traveled for work and didn't want to worry about discovering I would be out of town on election day.  Now I still get my mail-in ballot and just bring it with me to drop off (and I'm actually a pollworker).

 I envy you. I would happily give up early voting if everyone in Texas was eligible to vote by mail.

Quote

To be eligible to vote early by mail in Texas, you must:

• be 65 years or older;
• be disabled;
• be out of the county on election day and during the period for early voting by personal appearance; or
• be confined in jail, but otherwise eligible.

https://www.sos.state.tx.us/elections/voter/reqabbm.shtml

There's a separate process for voting by mail if you are living outside of the United States, are a member of the military stationed away from your home county, or are considered a dependent of that person.

 

[Rachel333]

The "Biden has dementia" narrative is another ugly attack that a lot of Bernie supporters have been boosting since they realized that Bernie is losing to Biden. There are a lot of clips that are taken completely out of context, and some are just examples of his stutter that they're mocking. It's really nasty stuff.

[church_of_dog]

8 minutes ago, Cartmann99 said:

 I envy you. I would happily give up early voting if everyone in Texas was eligible to vote by mail.

https://www.sos.state.tx.us/elections/voter/reqabbm.shtml

There's a separate process for voting by mail if you are living outside of the United States, are a member of the military stationed away from your home county, or are considered a dependent of that person.

 

I had no idea everyone didn't have the option of vote-by-mail.  

How are you asked to prove you will be out of the county?  I wonder if one could claim a trip or appointment even if it doesn't exist "got cancelled at the last minute"...

California doesn't have early voting (at least my area doesn't -- SMH -- how come I've been a pollworker for a decade and still don't know all this stuff?) so maybe that is the tradeoff like you say...

 

Also, I've been spending my time on the highly educational and fact-based coronavirus thread over at Websleuths, but there is no politics allowed there, so may I just say here, that one really nice side effect of the pandemic would be if the germophobe in the White House decided it was too scary and he didn't want to be the point person to deal with it in the US and decided to end his re-election campaign...

Why no, I don't have a fever, not to mention one high enough to induce delirium, why do you ask? 

[nausicaa]

Just now, faraway said:

I find it hard to discuss this without any factual evidence, I tried googling for a bit and did not come up with much. At least one person involved with the Bernie campaign was fired. That guy's twitter account was private but he posted some awful stuff. 

One quick google brought up dozens of articles from major outlets about this. I'm sorry, but I think you're indulging in some willful ignorance here. 

David Sirota worked for the campaign as a speechwriter while harassing other candidates and supporters online:

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2019/03/sanders-promised-civility-hired-twitter-attack-dog/585259/

Written guidance from the campaign encourages volunteers to dismiss the BernieBro narrative as manufactured by the media:

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/01/bernie-sanders-and-his-supporters-bro-y-reputation/605836/

A Nevade union complained of an onslaught of online and telephone harassment, including threats, after criticizing Medicare For All:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/rachelsandler/2020/02/12/nevada-union-says-sanders-supporters-harassed-members-over-medicare-for-all/#11be41333c97

In 2016, a speaker and activist railed against “corporate Democratic whores” at an official Sanders rally in Manhattan:

https://www.latimes.com/politics/story/2020-02-19/bernie-sanders-supporters-toxic-online-culture

 

Then there's the larger issue of Sanders' campaign taking on many of the shades of Trump's cult of personality and the cloak of secrecy and denial that accompanies such things. We dare not speak of the seriousness of his myocardial infarction (average life expectancy: three years). The older black voter backbone of the southern Democratic party is dismissed as the "establishment" and "low info voters." 

Even Sanders refuses to explain how to pay for many of his plans ("You don't know. Nobody knows. This is impossible.") Now he is suggesting to his supporters than any negative information is only the result of a corrupt media. Super Tuesday was unfair and the "establishment" (still can't get a definition of who exactly this is) tipped the scales (by...voting?). At this point, with the numbers of delegates Biden has won, Sanders supporters literally want to refuse to acknowledge basic arithmetic.

I've made it clear I don't agree with most of the Dem candidates on a host of issues. But this level of willful ignorance and refusal to acknowledge reality is found only among Sanders' campaign (and Trump's...).

[Rachel333]

59 minutes ago, Rachel333 said:

The "Biden has dementia" narrative is another ugly attack that a lot of Bernie supporters have been boosting since they realized that Bernie is losing to Biden. There are a lot of clips that are taken completely out of context, and some are just examples of his stutter that they're mocking. It's really nasty stuff.

I thought I'd add that this article about Biden's stutter is a good one to read before you mock Biden's speech patterns. A lot of the supposed lapses of memory are just him changing a word he's stuttering on, a common technique for stutterers.

And this clip from a town hall last month is good too.