Impeachment Inquiry

[formergothardite]

20 minutes ago, FundamentallyShocked said:

I do not believe that what has come out this week is sufficient.

I checked out the Trumpers FB pages I know and they still see him as a victim and that he did nothing wrong. I convinced that there could be proof he actually sold American secrets and it still wouldn't be enough. Nothing will be enough because this is a cult where they worship him. This isn't normal politics with a normal politician. He is a cult leader to them and he can do no wrong. 

[fraurosena]

@formergothardite, like you, I don't think there is anything that would convince a BT of Trump's criminality and treachery. But these diehard Trumper's are such a tiny minority, that their opinion becomes meaningless. It's all the supporters, the ones that unthinkinly voted for Trump because he has an R behind his name, and those voters who chose him because he isn't Hillary, that will actually count. Their opinion will matter. A lot. Because they are the majority of Republican supporters. When they eventually turn on Trump (an inevitability btw), he will be ousted faster than you can say Repugliklan.

@laPapessaGiovanna, would you agree it looks like Barr went to Italy to get instructions from a Russian handler?

 

[laPapessaGiovanna]

1 hour ago, fraurosena said:

@formergothardite

@laPapessaGiovanna, would you agree it looks like Barr went to Italy to get instructions from a Russian handler?

 

I don't know, this is circumstantial at best. I'd like to "see" more evidence than a couple of coincidences. There are claims that are much better corroborated and haven't done any damage to tRump or his lackeys

For sure it doesn't explain at all Abramson's claim that "Italy played such a substantial role in the Russia scandal".

[AmericanRose]

7 hours ago, formergothardite said:

I checked out the Trumpers FB pages I know and they still see him as a victim and that he did nothing wrong. I convinced that there could be proof he actually sold American secrets and it still wouldn't be enough. Nothing will be enough because this is a cult where they worship him. This isn't normal politics with a normal politician. He is a cult leader to them and he can do no wrong. 

Yep. They see Democrats as 'frantically grasping at straws' and think it's part of their 'obsession' with kicking Trump out of office.

[fraurosena]

Praise Rufus! One sheep is -- tentatively -- over the dam.*

Rep. Mark Amodei is not quite in favor of impeachment yet, but he supports the inquiry. 

First House Republican comes out in support of impeachment inquiry: report

[link to Fox News article]

Quote

Rep. Mark Amodei, R-Nev., on Friday became the first House Republican to express support for Congress' impeachment inquiry of President Trump.

“I’m a big fan of oversight, so let’s let the committees get to work and see where it goes,”  he said in a conference call with reporters, according to The Hill.

Amodei told reporters that at this point he wouldn’t vote to impeach Trump. But he said he was concerned about the July phone call with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky in which Trump asked him to investigate former Vice President Joe Biden and his son Hunter Biden’s activities in the country.

“Using government agencies to, if it’s proven, to put your finger on the scale of an election, I don’t think that’s right,” Amodei added. “If it turns out that it’s something along those lines, then there’s a problem.”

But he cautioned he was “in no way, shape, or form" indicating "support for impeachment," The Hill reported.

Trump’s phone call with Zelensky came under scrutiny after an unidentified whistleblower filed a complaint with the Inspector General, alleging Trump abused his office by pressuring a foreign country to investigate his political rival.

 

*Dutch saying: When one sheep has gone over the dam, the rest follow. 

[fraurosena]

2 hours ago, laPapessaGiovanna said:

For sure it doesn't explain at all Abramson's claim that "Italy played such a substantial role in the Russia scandal".

I think he's saying 'Italy played a role' not because Italy or any Italian actually did anything, but that Italy was a rendezvous location. I seem to remember him mentioning that in his mega-threads.

I agree, Barr and Rybolovlev both being in Italy at the same time could be purely coincidental. But it is suspicious...

While we're on the topic of Bill Barr:

AG Bill Barr reportedly "surprised and angry" at Trump-Ukraine phone call

Quote

Attorney General Bill Barr was "surprised and angry" to find that President Trump had grouped him together with his personal lawyer Rudy Giuliani during a controversial July 25 phone call with the president of Ukraine, a source "familiar with Barr's thinking" tells the AP.

Between the lines: The anonymous leak to the AP suggests a possible effort by Barr to distance himself from the Ukraine scandal that ignited a formal impeachment inquiry into Trump last week. The whistleblower complaint at the heart of the scandal alleges that Trump solicited foreign interference in the 2020 election by asking Ukrainian President Volodymr Zelensky to investigate Joe Biden, and that both Giuliani and Barr appeared to be involved.

"I will have Mr. Giuliani give you a call and I am also going to have Attorney General Barr call and we will get to the bottom of it," Trump told Zelensky, according to a summary of the call released by the White House.

Justice Department officials say Barr was not aware of the phone call until mid-August. The acting director of national intelligence referred the whistleblower complaint as a possible violation of campaign finance law, but the Justice Department declined to open an investigation.

What to watch: Democrats have called on Barr to recuse himself from all matters related to the Ukraine investigation, since he is named in the whistleblower complaint and may have been involved in the administration's efforts to stop it from being turned over to Congress.

Giuliani and Barr are likely to face scrutiny from the House Intelligence Committee, which has already subpoenaed Secretary of State Mike Pompeo and scheduled a series of depositions and hearings next week as its impeachment investigation moves full steam ahead.

I don't think Barr will recuse. 

[GreyhoundFan]

 

[fraurosena]

It seems the presidunce is a little rattled. 

He still thinks he can bluff his way out of the trouble he’s in.

[fraurosena]

Another henchman who needs to be called (subpoenaed) to testify.

 

[fraurosena]

Pence tried to make a stand, but buckled. I suppose Mother wasn't there to bolster his resolve.

Pence Advised Against Releasing Rough Transcript of Ukraine Call

Quote

MIKE PENCE privately counselled President Trump against releasing the rough transcript of the president’s call with his Ukrainian counterpart, but eventually sided with others in the White House arguing in favor of its release. The vice president raised concerns about the precedent the release would set, but ultimately fell in line behind Trump, who felt he had no choice but to release it. Trump told aides he felt the messaging had gotten away from the White House and that releasing the document was his only option in the battle for public opinion.

Pence said Wednesday the document shows that Trump’s threat to withhold aid in return for investigating Joe Biden and his son “just never happened.” During their call, Trump reminded Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky about military aid before asking him to examine actions by Biden’s son Hunter, according to the document.

 

[fraurosena]

These are the Repugliklan talking points that got emailed by mistake to the Democrats too. And guess what? It's exactly, sometimes word for word, what the Repugs have been saying.

I would have thought that one would change the talking points somewhat once you found out the other party has them too, but they're persisting anyway. Just goes to show that they can't come up with any other excuses. Because there simply aren't any for blatant treason...

Edited September 29, 2019 by fraurosena
darned merged posts again!

[fraurosena]

Love the last person he calls...

[Howl]

Word. 

I've been reading tweets claiming that Ivanka, Jared, Pompeo, Barr are all in Italy, along with an odd convergence of Russian mobligarchs.  My goodness, it's sooooo lovely there at this time of year! Steve Bannon is in Italy as well, but nobody knows if he's a player.  Either Pompeo or Barr had a planned itinerary leaving for Italy on Oct. 1, but obvs left early. 

As for the Russkis, the ultra wealthy have private jets which can be easily tracked through their tail numbers.  There are also folks tracking mobligarch megayachts and their ports of call. 

Interesting times. 

Edited September 29, 2019 by Howl

[WiseGirl]

Seth is on top if it s usual 

[thoughtful]

10 hours ago, fraurosena said:

He still thinks he can bluff his way out of the trouble he’s in.

He still thinks liddle' is a word.

 

[fraurosena]

If you can stomach Jim Jordan's screaming his bogus talking points, then this is something worth watching. Jake Tapper puts him in his place continuously and Jordan attempts all kinds of twists and turns and tries to wriggle away from the facts... but never succeeds. 

I loved the part where Tapper says: I understand you want to change the subject, but [here's what we're really talking about.]

 

[fraurosena]

Mark Zaid is part of the whistleblowers attorney team.

[GreyhoundFan]

I wish the people of the fourth district in Ohio would stop foisting Jordan on us. He's such a tool.

[Dandruff]

54 minutes ago, fraurosena said:

Mark Zaid is part of the whistleblowers attorney team.

I wonder how equally they agree.

[GreyhoundFan]

"Intelligence panel has deal to hear whistleblower’s testimony"

Spoiler

House Intelligence Committee Chairman Adam B. Schiff said Sunday that his panel has reached an agreement to secure testimony from the anonymous whistleblower whose detailed complaint launched an impeachment investigation into President Trump.

The announcement from Schiff came on the same day that Tom Bossert, a former Trump homeland security adviser, delivered a rebuke of the president, saying in an interview on ABC’s “This Week” that he was “deeply disturbed” by the implications of Trump’s recently reported actions.

Those comments come as members of Congress return to their districts for a two-week recess, during which they will either have to make the case for Trump’s impeachment or defend him to voters amid mounting questions about his conduct.

In appearances over the weekend, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) offered a preview of the Democratic message, casting the impeachment inquiry as a somber task that she chose to endorse only as a last resort.

“I have handled this with great care, with great moderation, with great attention to what we knew was a fact or what was an allegation,” Pelosi said Saturday at the Texas Tribune Festival in Austin. “This is very bad news for our country, because if as it seems to be, our president engaged in something that is so far beyond what our founders had in mind.”

While privately favoring a rapid probe confined to the Ukraine allegations, Pelosi said Saturday that the investigation would last “as long as the Intelligence Committee follows the facts.”

On a conference call with House Democrats on Sunday afternoon, Pelosi told her colleagues that public sentiment — something she had frequently cited as an obstacle to pursuing impeachment — had begun to swing around.

“The polls have changed drastically about this,” she said, urging a careful approach, according to notes taken by a person on the call: “Our tone must be prayerful, respectful, solemn, worthy of the Constitution.”

In an appearance on ABC News’s “This Week,” Schiff (D-Calif.) echoed Pelosi’s message. He also said he expected the Intelligence Committee to hear from the whistleblower “very soon” pending a security clearance from acting director of national intelligence Joseph Maguire.

“We’ll get the unfiltered testimony of that whistleblower,” Schiff said, noting that Maguire said in a hearing Thursday that he would allow the whistleblower to testify privately without constraints.

One of the whistleblower’s attorneys, Mark Zaid, said in a statement that bipartisan negotiations in both chambers are ongoing “and we understand all agree that protecting whistleblower’s identity is paramount.” He added that no date or time for the testimony has been set.

Most Republican lawmakers and White House aides, meanwhile, continued to voice support for the president, even as they faced particularly tough grilling by hosts on the morning news shows over their efforts to discredit the unidentified whistleblower and keep the focus on former vice president Joe Biden and his son Hunter Biden.

Rep. Jim Jordan (R-Ohio) pointed to an initial finding by the intelligence community inspector general stating that while the complaint was credible, the whistleblower had an “arguable political bias.”

“He had no firsthand knowledge. . . . And, second, he has a political bias,’’ Jordan said on CNN’s “State of the Union.” “That should tell us something about this guy who came forward with this claim.’’

Host Jake Tapper repeatedly pushed back against Jordan’s assertions. “There is no evidence of that,” he said in response to Jordan’s claim of political bias, noting that the language used by the inspector general in describing the whistleblower “could mean that he interned for John McCain 20 years ago. We have no idea what it means.”

White House senior adviser Stephen Miller went even further in an at-times heated interview on “Fox News Sunday.”

Miller dodged several questions from host Chris Wallace about allegations surrounding the president’s actions, such as Trump’s decision to use not the federal government but rather his personal attorney, Rudolph W. Giuliani, to obtain information on the Bidens’ activities in Ukraine.

He also declined to answer when asked by Wallace to outline how, in his view, the Bidens broke any laws. And he disputed the use of the word “whistleblower” to describe the person who sounded the alarm about Trump’s actions, arguing that the complaint was a “partisan hit job” by a “deep-state operative” — even though Maguire said in congressional testimony last week that he thinks the whistleblower “is operating in good faith and has followed the law.”

As both sides sparred, Trump largely stayed out of public view. The president spent the weekend playing golf at his club in Sterling, Va., and occasionally attacking Democrats and the news media online. On Sunday morning, he sent more than 20 tweets and retweets slamming Fox News Channel host Ed Henry’s performance during a segment with conservative commentator Mark Levin.

Later Sunday, Trump tweeted that he wants Schiff “questioned at the highest level for Fraud & Treason” for his remarks at last week’s hearing where Maguire testified. And Trump demanded to meet the whistleblower as well as the person’s sources.

“In addition, I want to meet not only my accuser, who presented SECOND & THIRD HAND INFORMATION, but also the person who illegally gave this information, which was largely incorrect, to the ‘Whistleblower,’ ” Trump tweeted. “Was this person SPYING on the U.S. President? Big Consequences!”

House Democrats last week began an impeachment inquiry into Trump’s actions after the release of the whistleblower complaint as well as a rough transcript of a July phone call in which Trump repeatedly urged Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky to investigate Biden, who is leading in polls for the 2020 Democratic presidential nomination.

Hunter Biden served for nearly five years on the board of Burisma, Ukraine’s largest private gas company, whose owner came under scrutiny by Ukrainian prosecutors for possible abuse of power and unlawful enrichment. The former vice president’s son was not accused of any wrongdoing in the investigation.

As vice president, Biden pressured Ukraine to fire the top prosecutor, Viktor Shokin, who Biden and other Western officials said was not sufficiently pursuing corruption cases. At the time, the investigation into Burisma was dormant, according to former Ukrainian and U.S. officials.

Trump’s handling of the matter appears to have alarmed voters. An ABC News-Ipsos poll released Sunday showed that 63 percent of adults say it is a serious problem that Trump pushed Zelensky to look at Hunter Biden.

However, less than half of the public, 43 percent, said Trump’s action was “very serious.” And just about half of Americans said they are “not surprised at all” to hear of Trump’s actions.

Among those expressing concern Sunday was Bossert, a rare official with ties to Trump to take on the president.

Bossert said he was “deeply disturbed” by the implications of Trump’s call to Zelensky and strongly criticized the president for seemingly furthering an unfounded theory that cybersecurity firm CrowdStrike played a role in shielding emails sent by Trump’s 2016 Democratic opponent, Hillary Clinton, and circulating allegations of Russian hacking.

The U.S. intelligence community has concluded that the Russians did hack Democratic sources in an effort to swing the election to Trump.

“That conspiracy theory has got to go,” Bossert said on ABC News’s “This Week,” explaining that Trump was motivated to spread the “completely debunked” theory because he had “not gotten his pound of flesh yet” over accusations that he had Russian help in winning the 2016 election. “They have to stop with that. It cannot continue to be repeated in our discourse. . . . If he continues to focus on that white whale, it’s going to bring him down.”

But Bossert said he was not convinced that Trump had leveraged U.S. aid to Ukraine for political dirt, noting that the president had other potential legitimate reasons to withhold the aid.

Both sides continued to dig in as scrutiny of the president intensified.

Democrats argued that the documents released by the Trump administration last week reveal that the president was misusing his office.

Rep. Hakeem Jeffries (D-N.Y.) said the president’s call clearly showed an abuse of power that justified impeachment proceedings. In an appearance on “State of the Union,” he referenced “The Godfather,” saying Trump used a “high-pressure tactic’’ by asking for an investigation of the Bidens.

“It was an offer that the Ukrainian president could not refuse,’’ Jeffries said.

Republicans, meanwhile, escalated their attacks on the whistleblower and dismissed the individual’s claims as invalid.

“You can’t get a parking ticket conviction based on hearsay,” Sen. Lindsey O. Graham (R-S.C.) said Sunday in an interview on CBS’s “Face the Nation.” “Donald Trump is still an American. Every American deserves to confront their accuser. So this is a sham as far as I’m concerned.”

In a combative appearance on “This Week,” Giuliani was asked at one point whether he would cooperate with the House Intelligence Committee’s probe. Giuliani initially said he would not unless its leadership changed, calling Schiff “illegitimate” and accusing him of having “prejudged the case.”

But Giuliani then backtracked and said he would “consider it,” based on the direction of Trump. “If he decides that he wants me to testify, of course I’ll testify,” he said.

Schiff disputed Giuliani’s characterization of his role, telling host George Stephanopoulos: “My role here is to do the investigation, to make sure the facts come out. What we have seen already is damning.”

Giuliani was somewhat more subdued in a separate appearance on Fox News Channel’s “Sunday Morning Futures,” during which host Maria Bartiromo pressed him on criticism from some Republicans that his frequent television appearances were not helping the president.

“What am I supposed to do, keep silent?” Giuliani asked.

 

[Howl]

The WH has trotted out various mouth pieces to parrot talking points and they were uniformly called out. 

Chris Wallace schooled Stephen Miller.  The 60 Minutes guy wouldn't buy into the ridiculous BS spouted by an indignant House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy. 

The Republicans are in a state of high dudgeon that anyone would question the Republican party line that there's no there there in Trump's phone transcript.   

 

[fraurosena]

Trump is so scared of the consequences of impeachment that he's now retweeting incitements to Civil War. 

 

8 hours ago, GreyhoundFan said:

“In addition, I want to meet not only my accuser, who presented SECOND & THIRD HAND INFORMATION, but also the person who illegally gave this information, which was largely incorrect, to the ‘Whistleblower,’ ” Trump tweeted. “Was this person SPYING on the U.S. President? Big Consequences!”

Oh, he wants to meet with people who accuse him, does he? Well in that case, I believe there are about 20 women out there whom he'd have to meet too. Big consequences, indeed.

 

[fraurosena]

This article completely debunks the Federalist's smear campaign against IC IG Atkinson and the whistleblower.

GOP Shows Russian Trolls How It’s Done With Whistleblower Smear

Quote

From Donald Trump on down, prominent Republicans used part of their weekend to falsely accuse Trump’s hand-picked intelligence community inspector general (IC IG) of secretly changing the requirements for intelligence workers to submit whistleblower tips as part of a deep state plot to clear the way for the Aug. 12 complaint about Trump’s phone call to the president of Ukraine.

The smoking gun in the putative conspiracy is an obscure government form, IC IG ICWSP Form 401, also known as the Disclosure of Urgent Concern Form. The document is put out by the IC IG for intelligence workers who need to file urgent complaints that trigger special treatment under the Intelligence Community Whistleblower Protection Act. 

According to the GOP and an army of conservative commentators, the old version of the form prohibited workers from submitting urgent complaints based on secondhand information; only misconduct witnessed personally could be reported. That changed in early August, the false claim goes, when ICIG Michael Atkinson snuck through a hasty revision to the complaint form that reversed long-standing policy. 

“Whistleblowers were required to provide direct, first-hand knowledge of allegations,” reads a Saturday tweet by House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy. “But just days before the Ukraine whistleblower came forward, the IC secretly removed that requirement from the complaint form.”

“Records show that the intelligence community quietly revised the formal whistleblower complaint form in August 2019,” Rudy Giuliani tweeted on Sunday. “Eliminating the requirement to have direct, first-hand knowledge of perceived wrongdoing. Coincidence?”

“That was on the form literally until apparently very recently,” said Trump’s other lawyer, Jay Sukulow, in an appearance on Hannity. “Months ago: no first hand information, no report.”

“WOW, they got caught,” tweeted Trump. “End the Witch Hunt now!”

The Atkinson smear comes amid a broad GOP campaign seemingly calculated to discredit the whistleblower report as unreliable, partisan hearsay, despite it having already been corroborated by an IC IG review and confirmed by the White House’s own transcript of Trump’s call with Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelensky. It began late Friday with a story from the conservative website The Federalist headlined “Intel Community Secretly Gutted Requirement Of First-Hand Whistleblower Knowledge.” The article claimed “the intelligence community secretly revised the formal whistleblower complaint form in August 2019 to eliminate the requirement of direct, first-hand knowledge of wrongdoing.”

“It seems like they are jumping to a lot of conclusions based on a fundamental misunderstanding of the law, the regulatory framework, and the language on one form,” said Julian Sanchez, a senior fellow at the libertarian Cato Institute.

The kernel of fact near the center of the conspiracy theory is that there is, indeed, a new version of Form 401 dated August 2019. 

A question on the form explicitly anticipates tips based on secondhand information, and asks the whistleblower to check a box: “I have direct and personal knowledge,” or, “I heard about it from others.” The Federalist used a screenshot of that field to illustrate its story. 

What the article didn’t mention or screenshot is a nearly identical field gracing Form 401 since at least May 2018, making it impossible that it was added as an easement for Trump’s whistleblower. The major difference in the fields is that the old form includes three options instead of two, subdividing secondhand sources into outside source and “other employees.”

There’s a reason the form has allowed secondhand reports all along. The requirement for firsthand whistleblowing only is completely made up.

“There’s never been a requirement that a whistleblower have firsthand knowledge of what they’re reporting,” said Irvin McCullough, an investigator at the nonprofit Government Accountability Project (and the son of a former IC IG). “They need to have a reasonable belief. The firsthand information is usually gathered by the inspector general, as I believe did occur here.”

When the IC IG receives an urgent report, it has 14 days to conduct a preliminary review under the law. If that investigation produces enough direct evidence, the IC IG can rule it “credible,” which triggers the legal requirement to forward the report to the director of central intelligence (DCI), and from there to Congress. 

The Federalist and supporters of the Atkinson smear also point to a two-page information sheet distributed as part of the May 2018 version of the form but not the August 2019 version. It’s unclear when it was dropped, but a paragraph in that now-excised preamble was headed, “First-Hand Information Required,” seemingly contradicting the form itself. “In order to find an ‘urgent’ concern credible, the IC IG must be in possession of reliable, first-hand information,” the text read in part. “The IC IG cannot transmit information via the ICWPA based on an employee’s second-hand knowledge of wrongdoing.” 

Though the text is confusingly drafted—which may be why the entire preamble was canned—a careful reading shows it’s not erecting a new hurdle for filing a whistleblower complaint, but rather describing the type of evidence the IC IG has to gather to judge the complaint “credible” at the end of its 14-day investigation. 

"It’s an explanation of the IG’s standard for assessing credibility,” said Sanchez in an interview with The Daily Beast. “The IG isn’t going to forward it to the DNI if it can’t corroborate secondhand or indirect information. The whistleblower’s job is not to investigate. That is the job of the IG.”

In other words, Trump’s whistleblower didn’t go through some shady deep state backdoor. He or she followed the process, and government investigators found the firsthand evidence themselves.

“Complainant was not a direct witness to President’s telephone call with the Ukrainian President on July 25, 2019,” the IC IG wrote on August 26. “Other information obtained during the preliminary review, however, supports the Complainant’s allegation that, among other things, during the call the President ‘sought to pressure the Ukrainian leader to take actions to help the President’s 2020 reelection bid.’”

 

[GreyhoundFan]

I don't have words to describe how much I despise newt:

 

Edited September 30, 2019 by GreyhoundFan

[GreyhoundFan]