Joe and Kendra 13: Online Courting with Caldwell Semi-colons

[JustEnough]

12 minutes ago, Karma said:

I have no idea!  And like @CharlieInCharge I’m too scared to click on it.  And I have no idea why google thinks it’s worth showing to a hetero woman married for 27 years!

 

I'm glad to know it's not just me confused as to why I apparently was the right demographic to be picked for this ad. I mean beyond being a sex ad for a gender I am not, the art splashed over the whole thing just baffles me. 

[Giraffe]

I didn’t find anything “off” about them posting “still getting to know you,” because as others have said we’re (hopefully) always getting to know each other. However, I do feel sad for them that in their case they’re still getting to know each other in ways they couldn’t before marriage - I’m not even talking about sex. Spending time alone with someone is VERY different than spending time with them in groups or with “chaperones.”

They have the added stress of the FIRST time they spend time alone with each other they’re stuck with each other! “Stuck” in the sense that they don’t have the luxury of having a break from the person to process anything by themselves for a time, even if they would still see each other daily. They’re in the same small space. Yes, I have a lot of need for solitude, but even with someone who’s more outgoing I can’t imagine that’s an easy transition. 

I think of social media as photoshop - it can be as real or unreal as I want to make it and many people would never know. 

[SassyPants]

I reported that ad ...1 time, OK, but for an entire week, stop spamming me. 

[CarrotCake]

That art looks like something they put in to get through some filters. It will now probably not be recognized as explicit content by AI.

[Smee]

I know I’ve said some of this before when young marriage comes up (as it inevitably does on this board), but I met my husband when I was 19, married him at 21, and had our first child less than 2 years later. We’re coming up on 10 years married now (12 years tomorrow since our first kiss), with 3 kids, and I’ve been a stay at home mother for most of that time. Kendra COULD be happy, her age and marital status doesn’t prevent that. But the key thing I have that she doesn’t is choice. Yes, I’m still figuring out some of who I am and what I want from life in my 30s. I don’t think waiting for marriage and kids until I’d sorted all that out was essential. Nor was it necessary to have sex with other guys or live together first for me to adjust to marriage. But I’ve spent the past few months discussing with my husband whether to apply for a PhD, retrain as a teacher-librarian or just go a totally different path and enrol in veterinary nursing. Those conversations are focused around what I’m passionate about, what will need to change in our shared lives to support those goals (e.g. childcare, finances), and how I can figure out what *I* want to do. I get to pursue the future I want WITH someone, not in spite of them, because he offers encouragement and stability and a sounding board for my thoughts. And my career aspirations have changed a bit in the past decade, which my husband understands and supports.

Kendra can only be happy so long as her goals stay the same, and that would be just as true if they’d spent the past two years courting and gotten married tomorrow, or not met Joe until she was Jana’s age. She might really enjoy being a stay at home mother right now, but if she ever changes (as humans do!) and in ten years wants to send her kids to school and pursue basically ANY other interest or career at all, she’s not likely to get her husband’s support. There’s no room to become any different in her 30s or 40s to how she is now. That’s the tragedy of their marriage, in my eyes.

[Sullie06]

4 hours ago, Smee said:

I know I’ve said some of this before when young marriage comes up (as it inevitably does on this board), but I met my husband when I was 19, married him at 21, and had our first child less than 2 years later. We’re coming up on 10 years married now (12 years tomorrow since our first kiss), with 3 kids, and I’ve been a stay at home mother for most of that time. Kendra COULD be happy, her age and marital status doesn’t prevent that. But the key thing I have that she doesn’t is choice. Yes, I’m still figuring out some of who I am and what I want from life in my 30s. I don’t think waiting for marriage and kids until I’d sorted all that out was essential. Nor was it necessary to have sex with other guys or live together first for me to adjust to marriage. But I’ve spent the past few months discussing with my husband whether to apply for a PhD, retrain as a teacher-librarian or just go a totally different path and enrol in veterinary nursing. Those conversations are focused around what I’m passionate about, what will need to change in our shared lives to support those goals (e.g. childcare, finances), and how I can figure out what *I* want to do. I get to pursue the future I want WITH someone, not in spite of them, because he offers encouragement and stability and a sounding board for my thoughts. And my career aspirations have changed a bit in the past decade, which my husband understands and supports.

Kendra can only be happy so long as her goals stay the same, and that would be just as true if they’d spent the past two years courting and gotten married tomorrow, or not met Joe until she was Jana’s age. She might really enjoy being a stay at home mother right now, but if she ever changes (as humans do!) and in ten years wants to send her kids to school and pursue basically ANY other interest or career at all, she’s not likely to get her husband’s support. There’s no room to become any different in her 30s or 40s to how she is now. That’s the tragedy of their marriage, in my eyes.

Yes this! Well put. 

I had a very similar situation to you. I met my now husband in high school, we were engaged at 19 and 20, married at 22 and 23. We waited 4 years to have kids then then suffered secondary infertility after a loss so we were 30 and 28 when our oldest was born. I agree that being married young and even marrying the first and only person you had a relationship with can lead to a very happy life but like you stated there has to be that ability to communicate, learn and reach for individual goals together and that I fear is not a basis in Kendra's marriage. As we know, her life revolves around Joe's life and not her individual goals. 

[SassyPants]

Not sure how this plays out in the long run, as the 2nd generation will be the first to experience it because for JB /M and G /KJ they all made the choice to entire this cultish, limiting lifestyle, but maybe since choice has never been part of the G2’s world, those ladies  ( and men to a lesser extent), won’t know what they’re missing? 

[scoutsadie]

On 9/13/2019 at 1:26 PM, just_ordinary said:

I believe they also are brainwashed to not believe in the ONE as we think of it. I read an I interesting article about the concept. If both partners are the right kind of Christians and put Jesus first they will be able to have a good and happy marriage. That promise is as horrific as pleasing. You don’t expect never ending romance and passion ála Hollywood but it also means you could basically marry anyone with the right criteria. So if your parents lay it on your heart it’s harder to find a way to escape. I think that may have happened to poor Tabitha. 

I'm curious about the article you mentioned - could you link to it?

Given what I know about fundies, I think when they talk about "the one that God has for you," I think they literally believe it is one specific person; they truly think that their god is THAT involved in the minutiae of their lives.

[Bobology]

While looking for someone else I came across the Paul-Christina Caldwell facebook page. On Oct 11 they shared two posts that are very anti-vaxxer (correct term?) I wonder if this is recent for them or if their own kids have not been vaccinated and I wonder about Garrett. And it makes me wonder about Pa Caldwell's congregants, which include some of the Duggars, and their vaccination beliefs. 

There is probably a big ol' thread about this somewhere, but I haven't seen it.

[VBOY9977]

I think Kendra will follow her parents in this topic, sadly. She doesn’t seem like a person who makes decisions for herself; she does what is expected of her. And Joe doesn’t strike me as a person who would put his foot down in a situation like this. 

[Vivi_music]

I seem to recall having the discussion of here a few times, and we never seem to know for sure where the Duggars stand on this. 

I seem to recall seeing some Duggar youngling get their shots on 19KAC, but I might be making up a false memory or something. So my first guess would be to say they are not anti-vaxx. Or at least weren't in the past. I'd hope on that particular issue, Joe would indeed put his foot down! ?

[jillsdopplerofdoom]

4 hours ago, Vivi_music said:

I seem to recall having the discussion of here a few times, and we never seem to know for sure where the Duggars stand on this. 

I seem to recall seeing some Duggar youngling get their shots on 19KAC, but I might be making up a false memory or something. So my first guess would be to say they are not anti-vaxx. Or at least weren't in the past. I'd hope on that particular issue, Joe would indeed put his foot down! ?

not a false memory, they definitely did. Can't be bothered to trek to YouTube right now to get a video though.

[CarrotCake]

I think Derrick or Jill mentioned somewhere recently that their boys get vaccinated. Or it was implied at least.

[SweetJuly]

I could imagine that their opinions on the subject might have changed. Or that the younger generations do things differently than JB and Michelle.

And even if the Duggars are not anti-vaxx, I really don't see Joe caring much or having much of a counter-argument if Kendra decides to follow her parents' lead on the topic of vaccination. He seems like the kind of guy who just goes with his wife's opinions on child-rearing.

[just_ordinary]

While I agree about Joe I think Kendra might mimic her sisters in law. They live on the compound so I guess she is much more influenced by what the Duggars/ some of them do than what her family does.

I do wonder if the Duggars have a different stand on that matter now or if just some decided to go the other way (similar to the home birth route many young couples went down). And while I love that people try to go back to a more natural lifestyle I think anti-vaxx or home births with no adequate medical care before, while and after are the stupidest ways to go about it. Why not reduce waste, plastic and toxins? Though I recall that non toxic cleaners are a huge thing in the Christian influencer community.

I also realised that the anti-vaxx community is much more diverse than I thought. Some just don’t get the yearly vaccinations like influenza. Others just refuse „newer“ vaccines as chickenpox. And some refuse a handful vaccines for whatever reason but do others without hesitation.

[Irishy]

I just cannot see Michelle leaving precious tiny cotton wool wrapped baby Josie unvaccinated. No way

[Kelsey]

5 hours ago, CarrotCake said:

I think Derrick or Jill mentioned somewhere recently that their boys get vaccinated. Or it was implied at least.

Derrick said he got his flu shot and encouraged others to get it as well.

He followed it up by stating that they vaccinate the kids.

I could see Kendra doing whatever her parents do. I think the Big DUGGAR Family vaccinates. They don't seem to have an anti-medicine stance. I could see some of the adult offspring choosing not to vax specifically Jessa since she doesn't even want to do hospital births after having complications. I could see Anna not vaxxing bc she's as dumb as a stump. I would think Abbie being an LPN would vax, but after working in a hospital, I know there are nurses with interesting beliefs.

[elf1590]

Are we officially on baby-watch for this couple yet?

[TeaELSee]

30 minutes ago, elf1590 said:

Are we officially on baby-watch for this couple yet?

I just assume everyone is pregnant, eventually I’m right.

[SassyPants]

This one could go either way. Obviously Kendra did not follow her SILs pattern in choosing questionable prenatal care and home births, but Michelle seemed to get prenatal care and have hospital deliveries once TLC came alone, so who really knows. It seems to be a crap shoot with these folks.

[Giraffe]

1 hour ago, Irishy said:

I just cannot see Michelle leaving precious tiny cotton wool wrapped baby Josie unvaccinated. No way

This is why I’m sure they’re all vaccinated. I don’t see them bringing home a micropreemie to a house with 18 unvaccinated people. Yes, perhaps they did, but my guess is even if they were anti-vax before Josie, Josie’s birth would’ve been impetus to vaccinate, even of only off-camera. 
 

OT: If Zsu were to have a micropreemie I firmly believe all of her kids would suddenly be vaccinated before the kid came home. 

[singsingsing]

Cool. I can’t wait for the very special tetanus episode of Counting On!

[Cleopatra7]

1 hour ago, Giraffe said:

This is why I’m sure they’re all vaccinated. I don’t see them bringing home a micropreemie to a house with 18 unvaccinated people. Yes, perhaps they did, but my guess is even if they were anti-vax before Josie, Josie’s birth would’ve been impetus to vaccinate, even of only off-camera. 
 

OT: If Zsu were to have a micropreemie I firmly believe all of her kids would suddenly be vaccinated before the kid came home. 

My guess is that the Duggars didn’t vaccinate before 19KAC, hence the episode where a bunch of the kids got chickenpox. Given that they’re always trying to out pro life each other, they probably don’t do the MMR because of the cell lines from an abortion in the 60s.  I agree that they probably did mass vaccinations of some kind when Josie came home from the hospital, but since we’re talking about the Duggars, it’s also possible that they thought God would take care of them all.

[theotherelise]

I'm in between Josh and Jana/JD in age and the chickenpox vaccine was released in 1995. I don't think I knew it existed until highschool (03-07). Also, if you don't go to do a well-child check-up every year and have an active pediatrician, you may just not have been offered it. Or maybe they weighed the cost/benefit and decided paying for 19 chickenpox vaccines wasn't worth it for that particular disease.

I think it's a safe bet usually to assume the Duggars are wildly inconsistent and disorganized. I'd apply that to their medical care as well. 

I don't really care about the baby watch or babygeddon, but I am actually slightly curious about if Christina Caldwell is going to just show up with another baby this winter. The Caldwells seem just *lovely* on facebook ?. 

[VBOY9977]

Make them stop please