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JermajestyDuggar

Unlicensed Nebraska midwife charged with homicide

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pook
Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Kylolo said:

This is her husband: https://www.ipexneb.com/tracyhock. The church listed in his bio is this one http://cornerstoneberean.org/ but I know nothing of Berean churches or if they’re even a particular affiliation. 

So he has a psychology degree then married and procreated with this loon?  I hope he is better at selling houses.

Edited by pook
riffles

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Waffle Time
smittykins
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

On her blog she calls hospital births “birthing in captivity.”

Well I hope you enjoy living in captivity for awhile! 

This is what she posted on FB:

DE517DF9-BB3E-4F94-BC82-11D2F0C96F5E.jpeg

Wasn’t there someone else who was against ultrasounds because “The Bible says we’re formed in secret”?

NM, @mango_fandango answered my question upthread.

*note to self:  Read the whole thing first!*

Edited by smittykins

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JermajestyDuggar
4 minutes ago, smittykins said:

Wasn’t there someone else who was against ultrasounds because “The Bible says we’re formed in secret”?

Yeah, that was Hannah Washburn Manderino. She was mentioned upthread. She’s pregnant yet again and I’m sure she won’t get an ultrasound this time either. 

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Unimpressed
Katzchen24
Posted (edited)

It looks like there's a GoFundMe (look for Help the Nebraska Birth Keeper) to help raise money for her defence. It's raised just over $5000 so far. The page states:

"Recently, Angee was charged with child abuse resulting in death, after a tragic case where a mother who chose Angee to assist her at birth lost a baby.

It’s important to remember:  there’s no such thing as zero risk in life.  Overwhelmingly, birth is safe.  Yet sometimes tragedies happen which are beyond anyone’s power to prevent."

Bolding is mine. This made me angry because it WASN'T beyond anyone's ability prevent.

Edited by Katzchen24
Replaced 'highlighting' with 'bolding' because that's correct.
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Meh
AliceInFundyland
Posted (edited)

People are stupid.

We need a few more rules to cut down on the stupid.

We need to separate God from medicine and government - across the board. Not on a state's rights basis.

This is unnecessary nonsense.

That's all I got.

ETA: Possibly a contentious point, I'm not sure she should go to jail. I am in favor (generally) of keeping all but the most egregious and violent offenders out of prison. Because money. But she's a fucking lunatic and what else can we do with her?

If she's left outside I bet she would reoffend.. People of this conviction don't learn.

Edited by AliceInFundyland
I had more words. But people are still stupid.

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HarryPotterFan

I hate these so-called “pro life” idiots. 

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Briefly
6 minutes ago, Katzchen24 said:

It looks like there's a GoFundMe (look for Help the Nebraska Birth Keeper) to help raise money for her defence. It's raised just over $5000 so far. The page states:

"Recently, Angee was charged with child abuse resulting in death, after a tragic case where a mother who chose Angee to assist her at birth lost a baby.

It’s important to remember:  there’s no such thing as zero risk in life.  Overwhelmingly, birth is safe.  Yet sometimes tragedies happen which are beyond anyone’s power to prevent."

Bolding is mine. This made me angry because it WASN'T beyond anyone's ability prevent.

That's what is so infuriating about it, it wasn't beyond anyone's ability to prevent.  Yes, tragedies do happen.  Sometimes they can't be avoided.  But this one could have been, or at least it seems like it to me. By not using an unlicensed, stupid woman as the midwife. This makes me so angry.  That baby did not die because of a tragic circumstance that couldn't be prevented.  She died because of a circumstance that should never have happened in the first place.

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JermajestyDuggar
5 minutes ago, Briefly said:

That's what is so infuriating about it, it wasn't beyond anyone's ability to prevent.  Yes, tragedies do happen.  Sometimes they can't be avoided.  But this one could have been, or at least it seems like it to me. By not using an unlicensed, stupid woman as the midwife. This makes me so angry.  That baby did not die because of a tragic circumstance that couldn't be prevented.  She died because of a circumstance that should never have happened in the first place.

I imagine her defenders are associated with her and have likely worked with her in some capacity. So they are trying to save their own images along with hers. 

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16strong

Birth is 'overwhelmingly safe'? Wtf?

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JermajestyDuggar
20 minutes ago, 16strong said:

Birth is 'overwhelmingly safe'? Wtf?

I really hate when people say stuff like this. More women and babies died due to complications of pregnancy and childbirth before modern medicine helped lower those numbers. I’m not an alarmist but it’s absolutely not overwhelmingly safe. Especially not breech births. Breech births are safer in hospitals because there is always the option of an emergency c-section. There’s no option for that in a homebirth. I’m wondering if the mother wanted to avoid a hospital birth because she knew a breech baby would likely end up a c-section. Or if she planned a homebirth with this woman from the start. 

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Cleopatra7
30 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I really hate when people say stuff like this. More women and babies died due to complications of pregnancy and childbirth before modern medicine helped lower those numbers. I’m not an alarmist but it’s absolutely not overwhelmingly safe. Especially not breech births. Breech births are safer in hospitals because there is always the option of an emergency c-section. There’s no option for that in a homebirth. I’m wondering if the mother wanted to avoid a hospital birth because she knew a breech baby would likely end up a c-section. Or if she planned a homebirth with this woman from the start. 

According to WHO, about 830 women and girls die every day from complications due to pregnancy and/birth:

https://www.who.int/en/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/maternal-mortality

That’s the equivalent of four commercial airplanes crashing each day. If these people were dying in plane crashes, the public would be outraged and there would be BBC documentaries about how these accidents could have happened. But since they are just dying in pregnancy and childbirth, there’s just a collective shrug.

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Katzchen24
24 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

 I’m wondering if the mother wanted to avoid a hospital birth because she knew a breech baby would likely end up a c-section. Or if she planned a homebirth with this woman from the start. 

That's even more horrifying. I realise it's speculation at this point, but if the mother planned  this even knowing the baby was breech with the sole intention of avoiding a c-section, then she has culpability with Hock in the baby's death. I'm guessing that the parents were just ignorant and misled and taken advantage of.

If the ultimate aim is to birth a healthy living baby, then suck it up and go to hospital. 

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Howl

Well, I'm sure Angee watched some YouTube vids about breech birth and assured the Noes that everything would be perfectly fine. 

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Marmion
Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Cleopatra7 said:

I’ve heard of anti vaccine and anti doctors, but where does anti ultrasound come from? I guess if you reject hospitals and doctors, then you have to reject all the works that come from them, I suppose.

The first I had ever heard of this was in relation to Evalion / Veronica Bouchard , a neo-Nazi , whom used to post videos to YouTube , before she eventually got banned .  She mentions being against ultrasound here , in a video that was reuploaded , for all those interested , whom feel that they can stomach listening to what all she says .  

I find it remarkable just how much in common white nationalists and Quiverfull Christian fundamentalists have with one another . The former being focused on propagating the population of their race , and the latter their religion  .  Any way , especially if this amateur home birth attendant is a Kinist , this might explain the source of this influence against ultrasounds . 

Edited by Marmion
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Spent
Dreadcrumbs
Posted (edited)

I looked up birth keeper and I found some hippy dippy looking stuff.

http://quickening.id.au/qss/what-is-a-birthkeeper.html

https://herbal-training.com/birthkeeper-training/

Not sure what makes this much different than being a doula even with the explanation.

Edited by Dreadcrumbs

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JMO

From articles that I read they didn't know that the baby was breech until deep into the labor.  And the baby was a footling breech, the most dangerous presentation. The midwife reassured the parents that she knew what to do so they decided not to go to the hospital.  

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JermajestyDuggar
1 hour ago, Dreadcrumbs said:

I looked up birth keeper and I found some hippy dippy looking stuff.

http://quickening.id.au/qss/what-is-a-birthkeeper.html

https://herbal-training.com/birthkeeper-training/

Not sure what makes this much different than being a doula even with the explanation.

They just sound like freebirthers to me. And I think freebirthers are dangerous. 

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OhNoNike
5 hours ago, JMO said:

From articles that I read they didn't know that the baby was breech until deep into the labor.  And the baby was a footling breech, the most dangerous presentation. The midwife reassured the parents that she knew what to do so they decided not to go to the hospital.  

Apparently this happens even to medical professionals - a very close family member was also presented foot first.  The mom was in labor for hours after her water broke before doctors spotted the foot, which led to an immediate c-section. Because she was in a hospital.   

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JermajestyDuggar

I read that she asked for scissors when the paramedics arrived to the home. Yes, she was planning on performing an episiotomy herself. A woman with zero medical training or licensure. A woman who likely didn’t even take a college level biology class for fucks sake. Boy google university sure gave her a lot of confidence in her extreme ignorance. 

Her husband sounds like a real piece of work according to his Facebook page. He was super mad his state wanted to outlaw conversion therapy on minors. Fuck that guy. From what I can tell, her two older kids are from a previous relationship and her three youngest are with her current husband. I guess she won’t be able to homeschool her kids from jail. 

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JermajestyDuggar

Apparently this was the couple’s second child and their first child was born emergency c-section. I imagine this horrible woman convinced these young parents that it was no problem to deliver a baby at home after her first was an emergency c-section. Angela Hock even says on her blog at one point that a VBAC is less dangerous than a repeat c-section. 

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myusername

It's not legal in Nebraska to have an assisted homebirth. If you want to have your baby at home, your choices are people like her, or no one. I'm past my baby-having years, but the laws need to be changed so that actual professionals can assist should the mother choose to try a home birth.

 

I blame both. The parents and the "midwife." What they were doing is illegal, and they all knew it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Palimpsest
18 hours ago, Howl said:

When I first got interested in Quiverfull, a fundy woman almost died under the care of an unlicensed and incompetent midwife who failed to realize that the woman had gestational diabetes.  This may have also been in Nebraska/Kansas.  It turned out that the midwife's husband was a convicted pedophile.  Hot mess. 

This woman did subsequently leave patriarchy and blogged about the whole thing.  I don't think it was Vyckie Garrison but I can't remember who it was. Anyone? 

Sounds like Carri.  It was awful.  She did leave her abusive husband and was doing better.  But sadly she died quite recently.  Car accident.  He daughter notified us.  

And the incompetent "certified" midwife is still practicing in Indiana. 

Details and a good summary below, and the daughter's thread about her death was merged in here.

 

There are a lot of states that don't have good regulations covering midwives, so people like this "Birth Keeper" idiot can do a lot of damage.  Even if they don't actually kill babies and mothers they can maim people for life.  I hope this one gets the maximum sentence.

It is buyer beware when it comes to picking a midwife in many states,  http://narm.org/pdffiles/Statechart.pdf

 

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VVV
19 minutes ago, myusername said:

It's not legal in Nebraska to have an assisted homebirth. If you want to have your baby at home, your choices are people like her, or no one. I'm past my baby-having years, but the laws need to be changed so that actual professionals can assist should the mother choose to try a home birth.

 

I blame both. The parents and the "midwife." What they were doing is illegal, and they all knew it.

I thought that MDs and CNMs were often restricted from doing homebirths by the terms of their malpractice insurance, even in states where it would otherwise be legal. 

I agree that the "midwife" and parents share responsibility, but the greater part is on the "midwife" who lied to them and misrepresented her expertise. At any rate, the parents will be punished for this for the rest of their lives simply by grief for the baby who would have lived had they made responsible decisions. I hope the fake midwife is convicted and the judge throws the book at her.

As a side note, https://www.nebraskabirthkeeper.com/ is full of jaw-dropping stuff, such as the idea that one can simply avoid inconvenient laws by forming a "Private Membership Association." Also, I don't know the nature of the Berea church they attend, but the website is replete with New Age woo.

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louisa05

Her idiot husband is an alum of my college. So embarrassing. 

It's a good school. An accredited school. A relatively liberal school affiliated with the very liberal Presbyterian Church USA. And the core liberal arts requirements include physical and biological sciences and a sociology course that ,back when I was there, also stressed how to think critically about research studies and how science and social science is often misrepresented in popular culture/media. A lot of critical thinking all over the curriculum. He should have known better. 

Also on a geographical note, what was she even doing delivering babies in Omaha? She lives nearly 3 hours away. Why would these people hire someone that far away for their delivery? 

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Aine
13 minutes ago, louisa05 said:

Also on a geographical note, what was she even doing delivering babies in Omaha? She lives nearly 3 hours away. Why would these people hire someone that far away for their delivery? 

Because it isn't that easy to find someone who will attend a home birth depending on the state laws, how much you can afford to pay them, and the availability of these 'birth attendants'.

There was a longford article in the Huffington Post not too long ago that I read at the time about the lengths women and midwives/birth attendants/whatever their qualification in the South go to in order to have some choice regarding their own care. For example, everyone meeting in a trailer park over the border in Georgia once the mother goes into labor where it is legal to homebirth.

While the article is very troubling and I would not personally make the choices these women do, I think the more concerning thing is that maternity care in many states is so poor (especially in rural areas of Alabama and all of Mississippi), maternal and infant mortality are higher than in many 3rd world countries in the hospitals, and women have limited options when it comes to their care.

https://highline.huffingtonpost.com/articles/en/alabama-midwives/

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