Seewalds 40 - Threewald is Here! Ivy Jane

[nausicaa]

3 hours ago, VineHeart137 said:

We have considered holding her back a year because in my experience, the older kids in the class do tend to have an advantage, not just academically but socially and emotionally.

I've always noticed this too. And they have an edge in sports and other physical activities as well.

I have an April birthday so there wasn't any debate about when I would be sent, but I still wonder how much better I would have done socially and emotionally if I'd been held back one year. 

[VelociRapture]

2 hours ago, InTheNameofRufus said:

Love this! Don’t rush it if you feel she may not be ready! My boys have October and November birthdays, cut off in our area is Jan.1. I chose to hold them both back a year and do one extra year of preschool, because although they were both little smarty pants, neither one was socially or emotionally ready for school. I will never, ever regret that choice. They both excel at school, are in several advanced placement courses, and have a bunch of close friends. 

Only you know your child the best (general you!,). Go with your gut and do what you think is right for your child. 

Absolutely! We figure she’s not going to be little for very long and Kindergarten is more intense these days then it used to be. Last thing we want is to start her too early and have it be a poor experience for her. I feel like our situation is a bit different from most parents just because if she had been born full-term we wouldn’t even be discussing what year to start her - she wouldn’t have been old enough for Fall 2021. 

We’ll have to wait and see what this next baby is like. I’m due in late November, so I’m already kind of leaning towards holding them the extra year too. We’ll have to see how they do developmentally and emotionally before actually making a decision on that though. If they’re on track or a bit advanced or a giant like their sister then we’ll likely start them on time. If not we can see what options there are and if holding them back is an actual option. 

[Glasgowghirl]

My sister in law was worried when my niece was born because she would be one of the youngest in her year at school the way the cut off worked and in England at the time parents didn't have the option to hold the child back a year if they felt the child wasn't ready. My niece never had any problems and the rules have since been relaxed. 

Here in Scotland we have a different cut off date from England and their was always an option for parents to let the child stay at nursery another year if needed, my cousin was born just after the cut off date and my aunt didn't realise this and went to register her and since her birthday was few days after the cut off and they had spare places they assessed her and another few children and decided that they were ready to start at 4.

 

[Iamtheway]

5 hours ago, ViolaSebastian said:

I was born on the cut-off date for the school year, so I underwent special testing to determine when I should start school. (This was the late-1980s). They determined that because I was very small for my age and had trouble bouncing a ball, that they'd hold me back. Huge mistake on their part and I was miserably bored throughout my schooling and ended up graduating a year early. 

But did you learn to bounce a ball? 

1 hour ago, Eponine said:

Everyone is right about it being a case-by-case basis thing, but I'm remembering the main difference in early vs late birthdays when I was in school: who gets to be the driver for their group of friends and who gets driven around because their birthday is after the others?! We counted down the days until our oldest friend could get his license and we'd all be gloriously free to...I don't know, go shopping or get fast food? It seemed like the most important thing about having an early or late birthday at the time.

In Sweden it’s the year you are born and the schoolyear starts in August. You start the year you turn 6. When I was little it was 7. There was a looong wait for those that turned 18 in the end of the year and couldn’t get their license or get in to our one pub (country life). 

We did however have a boy in our class that had been held back and he turned 20 during our last schoolyear. 20 is when you can shop at our state owned liquer shop. He was a busy, busy boy. 

[SassyPants]

17 minutes ago, Iamtheway said:

But did you learn to bounce a ball? 

In Sweden it’s the year you are born and the schoolyear starts in August. You start the year you turn 6. When I was little it was 7. There was a looong wait for those that turned 18 in the end of the year and couldn’t get their license or get in to our one pub (country life). 

We did however have a boy in our class that had been held back and he turned 20 during our last schoolyear. 20 is when you can shop at our state owned liquer shop. He was a busy, busy boy. 

I was the youngest kid in my class until HS. There was 1 person younger than me in HS and it did not end well for her...drugs, alcohol, early death. I was a senior in college when I was 20. I turned 21 in the middle of my senior year. I was out of HS at 17 years and 5 months.

[Ali]

My daughter has a late birthday. I regret not waiting another year to start her in kindergarten. The early grades are so much more intense than they used to be in the United States. They expect them to be reading and writing paragraphs in kindergarten. My daughter was exhausted every day. Seven hours plus bus ride is a long day for a little kid. Lunch was also a big adjustment. She only got 20 minutes total to eat lunch.

[Dreadcrumbs]

My birthday is at the end of Jan, and I started kindergarten when I was 5. I did fine and it felt like a sort of continuation of preschool but we learned to read, write, and do math. Granted, this was at a private school that I began attending prior. I did fine so I take it I was ready.

1 hour ago, Ali said:

My daughter has a late birthday. I regret not waiting another year to start her in kindergarten. The early grades are so much more intense than they used to be in the United States. They expect them to be reading and writing paragraphs in kindergarten. My daughter was exhausted every day. Seven hours plus bus ride is a long day for a little kid. Lunch was also a big adjustment. She only got 20 minutes total to eat lunch. 

That's nuts. That's even nuts for a child slightly older.

Edited May 16, 2019 by Dreadcrumbs
added a missing word

[Smee]

The “send them early or late” debate comes up in every parenting forum, Facebook group, Mother’s group etc I’ve ever been a part of. It’s honestly one of the reasons we planned for my third child to be born in the part of the year where we wouldn’t have to make a decision. The general advice is later is better, but as in all things, it depends on the child. My daughter (5) is on the younger end and could have waited until next year, but we sent her “early” (school year in Aus is Feb-Dec, she turned 5 mid-Feb). Academically, she’s thriving and is ahead of her grade; socially, she gravitates towards older kids and most of her friends are a grade or two above anyway, she’s independent and happy to ask for help, follows instructions and can be patient. I worried a little about emotional maturity and resilience but her teacher assured me she’s been fine. A friend of mine has a son who is one day older than my daughter and will start school next year - she commented to me last year that if my daughter was her kid she’d send her, and likewise I thought if it was my choice I’d wait the extra year for her son. 

Another friend who has the choice has told me she’s waiting with her son, not because of concerns about his ability, but, in her words “why rush? He’s got 13 years of schooling and then the workforce ahead of him, I want to enjoy his childhood as long as I can.”

[AussieKrissy]

10 minutes ago, Smee said:

The “send them early or late” debate comes up in every parenting forum, Facebook group, Mother’s group etc I’ve ever been a part of. It’s honestly one of the reasons we planned for my third child to be born in the part of the year where we wouldn’t have to make a decision. The general advice is later is better, but as in all things, it depends on the child. My daughter (5) is on the younger end and could have waited until next year, but we sent her “early” (school year in Aus is Feb-Dec, she turned 5 mid-Feb). Academically, she’s thriving and is ahead of her grade; socially, she gravitates towards older kids and most of her friends are a grade or two above anyway, she’s independent and happy to ask for help, follows instructions and can be patient. I worried a little about emotional maturity and resilience but her teacher assured me she’s been fine. A friend of mine has a son who is one day older than my daughter and will start school next year - she commented to me last year that if my daughter was her kid she’d send her, and likewise I thought if it was my choice I’d wait the extra year for her son. 

Another friend who has the choice has told me she’s waiting with her son, not because of concerns about his ability, but, in her words “why rush? He’s got 13 years of schooling and then the workforce ahead of him, I want to enjoy his childhood as long as I can.”

My daughter is March, I can send her 2021 or 2022

I think she would do fine either year (daycare since 8 months) but I kind of like your friend. I think I will also be guided by her preschool teachers also. They love her so they may just want her the extra year. 

Each parent knows their child the best, I feel sad for the parents who (kind of) have to send them to school to save on daycare fees. 

[Markie]

Our cut off is December 31, so you have a lot of 3 year olds starting JK. My nephew was born December 27 and was small for his age. My sister had to lift him up to the bottom step the first year. It’s a long day for those little ones.

[JillyO]

To offer a little bit of a different perspective: Where I was living in Germany at the time, the "hard" cut off was June 30, and then there were a couple of weeks wheren the parents could decide on whether to hold the child back a year or not, but if they decided to send the kid to school, a child psychologist had to agree that the child was ready. I was born in mid-August, and my parents (together with my kindergarten teacher) decided I was ready, which the psychologist agreed with. So I started first grade a few days after my 6th birthday and was the youngest in my class by about three weeks.

I was still ahead of everyone else academically and getting bored, and was doing fine socially/emotionally, so my teacher actually suggested I skip the third grade. I did that, and it was great. I was still a really good student, but no longer bored out of my mind, and I found new friends and got along really well with my classmates all throughout my school years. I definitely never regretted starting school early OR skipping a grade, even though I ended up being the youngest kid by a lot (we eventually had a few other kids who skipped grades later on, but they were still between 3 and 11 months older than me).

All that to say: I agree that this decision should be made on a case-by-case basis, based on how ready a child is. I just wanted to point out that there ARE advantages to sending a child (who's ready) to school early, and there are those of us out there who prefered it this way. I cannot even imagine how insanely bored I would have been if I'd started school a year later than I did.

[just_ordinary]

Deciding on a case-to-case basis when possible is a good idea. I was almost ever the youngest in my class but did very well academically. Maturity wise and especially physically another year in kindergarten might have been beneficial but boy I would have been bored out if my mind. Children are often much more capable and can be more independent than adults think if they are given the chance.  

While growing up not all areas develop at the same pace and it’s certainly a balance act to treat them accordingly without demanding too little or too much.

[Smee]

I was young for my grade too (3 weeks before the cut off) and had a similar experience - no skipping grades, but I went to an academically selective school from years 7-12. Selective schooling is a whoooole other issue and I have problems with my experience, but in short, I would have been so bored if I’d been held back another year. It certainly factored in to our decision to send our daughter this year rather than next.

But I look at my kids’ experience of primary school now and it’s MUCH more individualised than when I was a kid*, at least for literacy and numeracy. They don’t tell me what “year 2 are learning to do” at parent-teacher interviews or in reports, they tell me “<son> has mastered X Y Z skills and the next step is to work on A B C.” Spelling is run in groups based entirely on ability so there are year 6 kids doing spelling alongside year 1s if they’re both at the same level. Outside of spelling, my son is in a class with a mix of grades 2 and 3, while my daughter’s class is a mix of kindergarten and grade 1. The vast majority of the activities they do are in small groups or individually, working at whatever level they’re at with a view to bringing them to the next level, whether they’re already “ahead” or not. So even if we HAD waited with my daughter I don’t think she would have been exceptionally bored because the school caters well to kids of different abilities and strengths. 

The other part of my reasoning is that age is only one aspect of who a person is and outside of schooling (& competitive sport) they’ll rarely be grouped with peers based only on age. I played in the school band alongside kids who played the same instrument, not kids who were my age, my kids do swimming lessons based on ability not age, when they’re teenagers with part-time jobs they’ll have colleagues of different ages. So if being “young” is the ONLY reason to wait then I think it’s a dumb reason. It factors in to school readiness, sure, but it’s not everything.

*Again this is something that differs across schooling systems, I can only speak to Australia (or even just NSW)

[kiwi]

Its crazy because here in New Zealand you start school on your 5th birthday (or closest school day to it).

However, two of our children will turn 18 in their final year of school (june and november) and one of our children wont turn 18 until the march after finishing her final year in the December. We agonised over this as she is the youngest in her year at school (and probably will be forever until she finishes), we also don’t know what’s going to happen if she wants to start university as that will start in the Feb when shes still 17! She may have to do a gap year prior to starting university the following year or start mid year.

She is academically and socially at the same level as her peers, holding her back wouldn’t have benefitted her.

[Smee]

^I started university at 17 and turned 18 in July of that year. It was fine. Why would she not be able to start until she’s 18?

[nastyhobbitses]

No kids, but my one worry about holding a kid back would be my memories of elementary school where "did you know that X got held back?" "Yeah, wow, he must be really dumb" was a common topic of gossip. Hell, I was called the r-word in high school because I decided not to take pre-calculus (I just was not getting math at all and didn't want to completely tank my GPA -- I was in all AP classes for humanities and was taking two language classes otherwise). I would be hesitant to put my kid into kindergarten when they're much older than their peers simply because I remember the bullying and gossip and wouldn't want that for my kid. 

[Chewing Gum]

1 hour ago, kiwi said:

Its crazy because here in New Zealand you start school on your 5th birthday (or closest school day to it).
 

The Netherlands are the same, only we start at 4 rather than 5. Youngest turns 4 on August 8th so she'll start in late August when the schoolyear starts. 

We have an option to re-take the first grade. Youngest won't have to since she has a full first grade this year, but Oldest, a January kid, did 1,5 years of 1st grade. 

[baldricks_turnip]

I'm a prep teacher (the equivalent of a kindergarten teacher). I'm all for delayed entry to school. Trying to teach a child who isn't school ready is NOT fun. I was due in December and wasn't sure what I was having but I pretty much had my mind made up that if it was a boy I would start him in school when he was 6 rather than when he had just turned 5. But I had a girl so I'm more likely to send her at 5.

Maybe this is contradictory, but I am all for early learning and absolutely cannot wait until my kiddo (currently 17 months) shows an interest in counting or learning letters. It's not about school readiness or competitive parenting, I just love teaching and learning and seeing kids light up as they grasp new concepts. If they are disinterested it's not going to stick anyway. Days with small kids are loooooooong. Most teaching with young kids is brief and incidental. It's not a choice between drilling sight words for hours on end or letting your child play, its more likely that you find moments within play to reinforce learning around shapes, numbers, letters and words.

[StraightOuttaArkansas]

15 hours ago, InTheNameofRufus said:

Love this! Don’t rush it if you feel she may not be ready! My boys have October and November birthdays, cut off in our area is Jan.1. I chose to hold them both back a year and do one extra year of preschool, because although they were both little smarty pants, neither one was socially or emotionally ready for school. I will never, ever regret that choice. They both excel at school, are in several advanced placement courses, and have a bunch of close friends. 

Only you know your child the best (general you!,). Go with your gut and do what you think is right for your child. 

This is very much what I wanted to say. I will toss another view for another country into the mix here. When we lived in Germany Little Outta 1 was due to start school and they had two cut off dates, the first (end of May I think it was?) where the kids who must begin that year (unless there was an exemptions of some kind) and then the second cut off was the end of July for kids who could start if they wanted, but it was the parents choice. Little Outta 1 has an early July birthday and was always very academically minded. He enjoyed "playing school", he loved to do maze pages and cutting pages, though he hated to color anything. He could sit quietly and follow directions. He was bored in preschool. I opted to have him start at 6 thinking it would be the best. I now think that was partly wrong. I have to back up a bit, because the actual issue started years before that. We did the baby-mom group (until age 2), then the playgroup (until age 3), and then comes the crucial bit: all the kids he had been together with started Kindergarten (preschool) after the one year and because he was not talking well enough (he did, in both languages, he was just super shy and it has not gotten tthhhaaaattt much better over the years) everyone insisted that he do another year in the playgroup and go 5 days a week instead of the 3. This meant that he was with kids an entire year younger than him, they had less advanced language skills, were only just starting to potty train, the same types of activities that were way too young for him to advance at all, basically he was in need of examples to follow and instead was thrust into a "leader" position, he is just not that kind of kid. I was young and agreed thinking I had really messed up, but I think if he had gone to the preschool and the benefit of the extra year there instead of play group his maturity would have been on level with his academic ability. The dumb bit is, I didn't really figure this out in time to start him at 7 and only really realized the impact when he was not given the school recommendation we thought was best at the end of grade 4 (which I still think he should have gone on to the more academic school, but only the teacher decides in our state). The reasoning of the decision was "He would do well at the higher level, but he is not mature enough, he likes to stare out the window too much". I was pissed, but there was nothing I could do and he was 9 what was I going to say? He did end being held back in a silly twist of fate. We moved to the UK and they are super strict about the age line and he ended being required to repeat a year. I am really glad that happened, he went in at the beginning of a key stage and did not have exam pressures, he has matured a lot and still been challenged (that is the school though, he was bored to tears in his old school).

TL;DR: I do wish I had waited the extra year, but only because of having done an extra year prior. Maturity makes a big difference even for the smart kids.

[VelociRapture]

10 hours ago, Smee said:

The “send them early or late” debate comes up in every parenting forum, Facebook group, Mother’s group etc I’ve ever been a part of. It’s honestly one of the reasons we planned for my third child to be born in the part of the year where we wouldn’t have to make a decision. The general advice is later is better, but as in all things, it depends on the child. My daughter (5) is on the younger end and could have waited until next year, but we sent her “early” (school year in Aus is Feb-Dec, she turned 5 mid-Feb). Academically, she’s thriving and is ahead of her grade; socially, she gravitates towards older kids and most of her friends are a grade or two above anyway, she’s independent and happy to ask for help, follows instructions and can be patient. I worried a little about emotional maturity and resilience but her teacher assured me she’s been fine. A friend of mine has a son who is one day older than my daughter and will start school next year - she commented to me last year that if my daughter was her kid she’d send her, and likewise I thought if it was my choice I’d wait the extra year for her son. 

Another friend who has the choice has told me she’s waiting with her son, not because of concerns about his ability, but, in her words “why rush? He’s got 13 years of schooling and then the workforce ahead of him, I want to enjoy his childhood as long as I can.”

I wish we could have planned when to have our kids. We tried and it didn’t work out. First time I would have been due around Halloween, but we miscarried. Second time I was due mid-January, but she was six weeks premature, meaning she could technically start Kindergarten in two separate years. This time it took us five months to conceive and  I’m due in late November, but history has taught me to be prepared for the birth by early October just in case. So apparently the best we could do was avoid due dates during Tax Season, when my husband is busiest. Our babies just really want to be born at the end of the year apparently. ?

1 hour ago, baldricks_turnip said:

I'm a prep teacher (the equivalent of a kindergarten teacher). I'm all for delayed entry to school. Trying to teach a child who isn't school ready is NOT fun. I was due in December and wasn't sure what I was having but I pretty much had my mind made up that if it was a boy I would start him in school when he was 6 rather than when he had just turned 5. But I had a girl so I'm more likely to send her at 5.

Maybe this is contradictory, but I am all for early learning and absolutely cannot wait until my kiddo (currently 17 months) shows an interest in counting or learning letters. It's not about school readiness or competitive parenting, I just love teaching and learning and seeing kids light up as they grasp new concepts. If they are disinterested it's not going to stick anyway. Days with small kids are loooooooong. Most teaching with young kids is brief and incidental. It's not a choice between drilling sight words for hours on end or letting your child play, its more likely that you find moments within play to reinforce learning around shapes, numbers, letters and words.

Yeah, this is kind of what we’re worried about. Our daughter is doing fantastic all things considered. Her pediatrician doesn’t even really consider her a Preemie at this point because she was mostly caught up by 18 months. But I have a nephew who is 9.5 months older than her and there is a difference in how far along they both are developmentally. If we start her the year she turns five then she’d be in class with kids as old as her cousin and that just makes us concerned about how well she’d really do. Plus, Kindergarten is so much more intense these days then it used to be - we don’t want our daughter burning out before she even gets a chance to learn to love school. Other kids born at the same time as her will likely be ready to start early and that’s pretty awesome, but we just don’t feel it’s right for our daughter at this point. We may change our minds as she gets older as she’s only 2.5, but right now we’re pretty set on holding her the extra year. 

I don’t see how that’s contradictory. Learning at home is more about playing and be flexible whereas learning at school seems to be more scheduled and disciplined - it’s different atmospheres and environments. Young kids can do great in both settings, but you have to be sure they can handle things like sitting still, following directions, focusing on a task for a set period of time, etc. If they can’t then they might not be ready for the transition to school. 

(Also, my daughter currently LOVES this wooden Alphabet puzzle we have for her. It took a while for her to like it and she can’t aay letter names yet, but she has a great time trying to match the pieces up and repeating the things we tell her about them - like when we explain X is for X-rays, which is a picture of your bones.)

[SweetLaurel]

My youngest was 4 days past the cutoff and I'd planned to not send him, because past the cut off, but Life happened and he needed to go - husband lost his job and spiraled, I was gone working and needed the kid somewhere safe while I was gone.  They worked him in via some sort of magic and he did fine, but I still feel a bit guilty about it.  Though, you know, he's in college now.  

On a cute note - had dinner with the grandsons the other day, and youngest was announcing he was not going to kindergarten next year because, "I just don't want to learn."   His older brother, in second grade,  shook his head and said, "You won't be able to help it. It just happens."     

Edited May 16, 2019 by SweetLaurel
adding

[SassyPants]

1 hour ago, SweetLaurel said:

My youngest was 4 days past the cutoff and I'd planned to not send him, because past the cut off, but Life happened and he needed to go - husband lost his job and spiraled, I was gone working and needed the kid somewhere safe while I was gone.  They worked him in via some sort of magic and he did fine, but I still feel a bit guilty about it.  Though, you know, he's in college now.  

On a cute note - had dinner with the grandsons the other day, and youngest was announcing he was not going to kindergarten next year because, "I just don't want to learn."   His older brother, in second grade,  shook his head and said, "You won't be able to help it. It just happens."     

I have a nephew who used to hide in a tunnel slide to avoid going back to his kindergarten classroom after recess. He once told my daughter, who was a Freshman in college at the time, that school was “a waste of my time and I don’t want to wisten ( he had trouble with pronouncing l’s)”. My daughter laughed and said “you’re in for a world of hurt.” He’s in college now on a full ride scholarship, so I guess he got over it.

[medimus]

In Belgium they start at 2,5 (by calendar year), as soon as they are 2 years 6 months during the school year (so jan-feb babies start at the beginning of the school year in september, and have 4 whole years of infant school, the rest start later in the year and december babies tend to start at the beginning of the next school year and only have three years of infant school). In the last year of infant school, it can be decided that a child isn't ready and will be kept back in infant school. Repeating a year is common in the Belgian school system, but it is seen quite negatively.  In my primary school class I was one of the youngest (despite not being particularly young in the year) and there was someone 21 months older than me in the class. It was possible to skip a year as well/do a year less of infant school but this was much less common.

Here in Scotland children start at 4,5 (cut off date march 1st, but those in Jan-Feb and less so in Sept-Dec can choose to wait a year). In Ireland parents get to choose to start a child at 4 or 5 (has to be 4 by the 1st of September, though lots of schools have earlier cut off dates or admissions criteria that rank children by age), though the average age has steadily been rising. There is a clear difference in age between those who are better off and those who aren't, as preschool education/childcare is expensive. Which I think is a terrible consequence of this kind of thing. There should be good preschool education available for all.

 

Edited to add: Sorry for boring everyone, I have ASD and school systems are a special interest, especially in the countries I have a link to, which are many.

Edited May 16, 2019 by medimus

[Satan'sFortress]

On 5/14/2019 at 12:08 PM, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Ha!  Definitely no laundry fairy.  She did have some little tricks to stay sane raising 7 kids in a 3 bedroom flat with little money in the depression...

She said there were days she couldn’t take it anymore and if one more person called her mom she was going to run away so on those days they called her...Pete.

On her Pete days she still did all the mom stuff but wouldn’t answer to it.

one oft told story in my family was once one of the judgy neighbors came over and my mom, almost 4, answered the door and yelled over her shoulder, “Hey Pete!  Mrs. McSomething wants you!”

Grams came out as one of my uncles (about 11-12 at the time) came in with a “hey Pete, what’s for lunch?”

The neighbor was scandalized by the “disrespect” but Grams gave zero fucks.  She found a way to keep her sense of humor and as she put it, “Kept me from smacking anyone or taking up drinking.”

Bonus was her kids grew up knowing parents get frustrated and have their limits and that’s okay - Love is still there and life goes on.  

I ❤️ this so much.  I can just picture the whole scene.  My mom had 5 kids under the age of 5, no car, and my dad was almost never home (full time work/school.)  It meant so much to me when she  told me how nuts she was some days.  To be fair, I didn't realize it at the time, but she told me when I was a new mom and going nuts myself.  It made me feel so much better!

 

On 5/14/2019 at 12:08 PM, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Bonus was her kids grew up knowing parents get frustrated and have their limits and that’s okay - Love is still there and life goes on.  

Double quoting you because this seems so important.  My kids definitely know I am human, and that they are loved.

[NoKidsAndCounting]

I think if Jessa and Ben had a girl, would they choose "Veronica?"

"Veronica One of the more memorable stories in the New Testament surrounds this name—Veronica is the woman who wiped the face of Jesus as he dragged his cross to Calvary (her cloth was instantly imprinted with his face). The name means "victory bringer".