Josiah & Lauren 13: Drift, Duggars, Drift (Miscarriage Content Warning)

[meee]

On 4/17/2019 at 4:27 AM, Pete Pickles said:

I think she’s pregnant and Abbie is too. This could definitely be a “hey pregnant people, let’s pose together!”  photo op. 

I know nothing to be fact. All aboard my speculation bus.

I REALLY hope for Lauren's sake that you're right and this is a "three pregnant Duggars" lineup. And I'm saying that because the John/Abbie pose makes it pretty obvious to me that Abbie is expecting, we know that Kendra is expecting, and if Lauren is the only one in that picture who is not, and she knows it, that's got to really hurt. Signed, someone who's been there too many times to count.

[backyard sylph]

Am I wrong for being sort of disgusted by the term rainbow baby? It's really okay to tell me if I am, and I'll do my best to repent. I can't quite nail down the words to explain why, but I am making this face: ? But if someone here thinks of their child that way, of course I'm happy for you, and who doesn't like rainbows?

[VelociRapture]

1 hour ago, backyard sylph said:

Am I wrong for being sort of disgusted by the term rainbow baby? It's really okay to tell me if I am, and I'll do my best to repent. I can't quite nail down the words to explain why, but I am making this face: ? But if someone here thinks of their child that way, of course I'm happy for you, and who doesn't like rainbows?

I think of my daughter like this at times. I had a tough time emotionally after losing my first pregnancy and spent my pregnancy with my daughter worried something would go wrong again. I’m pregnant right now and struggling with anxiety over something going wrong because something has gone wrong during my two prior pregnancies - there’s legitimate precedent for worrying. The rainbow baby term is helpful for me because it’s just a little reminder that things turned out ok for us after our loss and that our daughter is doing well after her premature birth. I know there are parents out there who have suffered pregnancy or child loss who don’t like the term and prefer not to use it, so it’s not a term I’d go around using for anyone else unless I know they like it. It’s a personal thing and I think each family’s opinion should be respected in regards to whether it’s used or not. 

[backyard sylph]

Thank you @VelociRapture you always make sense to me. I suppose using it for yourself is a kind of choice you get to make for how you perceive your life and family experiences. And so my real problem with it is probably my problem with a lot of other things; someone else labeling your experiences, which strikes me as facile, at the least. 

[VelociRapture]

15 minutes ago, backyard sylph said:

Thank you @VelociRapture you always make sense to me. I suppose using it for yourself is a kind of choice you get to make for how you perceive your life and family experiences. And so my real problem with it is probably my problem with a lot of other things; someone else labeling your experiences, which strikes me as facile, at the least. 

Yes, I agree. I really dislike the way that person wrote that comment to Lauren and Si, mostly because it’s just plain cruel to write something like that to a couple who you know suffered a loss based only off a rumor and not fact. It’d be one thing if they announced a pregnancy using that specific term - I would t have any issue with someone congratulating them on their “rainbow baby” at that point. But congratulating them based only off a shaky rumor when they haven’t announced anything? That just strikes me as really cruel and unnecessary. 

[justmy2cents]

@backyard sylph While I'm not disgusted with the term I don't identify with it either, even though my daughter was born after a loss. It is a very personal feeling and I wouldn't tell others how to feel. I just never thought of my daughter in that way. @VelociRapture wishing you peace in this pregnancy. I remember how anxious I was in the first trimester. It eased up as the pregnancy progressed and reached viability but I seemed to be waiting for the other shoe to drop. Thankfully it didn't!

[Iamtheway]

Everytime I hear the term rainbow baby I think it’s a baby in a rainbow family, as in a LGBTQ family. 

I never think of Miniway that way even though he was born after a loss (or six if you count the failed ivf’s as losses and they definitly felt like they were). I’m not at all bothered by the terms others use though as long as the chose them themselves. Writing that to a young woman you know suffered a misscarriage and that you know was devestated by that misscarriage is just horrible. Poor Lauren should not have to read and answer those kinds of posts.

@VelociRapture I totally understad that you’re worrying and I wish you peace and keep all my fingers and toes crossed that this little one stay on the inside until they are fully baked and comes out happy and healthy.

[JesSky03]

I don't understand why someone would be disgusted by the term but I understand not wanting to use it. I personally don't really refer to my son as my rainbow baby even though he was born after 2 losses. I don't like the idea of already giving him a label and making it seem like he is living in the shadow of the babies I lost. 

[Eponine]

4 hours ago, Iamtheway said:

Everytime I hear the term rainbow baby I think it’s a baby in a rainbow family, as in a LGBTQ family.

Same, and I actually think my neighbors, a gay multiracial couple, used this at some point for their son after he was born. I wouldn't be surprised if they have absolutely no context for such terms in the context of miscarriage and pregnancy, but I also see why they'd use it in the case of their family.

[zcccrv]

I only recently heard the term and the first thing I thought it meant, without knowing the real meaning but understanding it was something in the broader context of misscarriage, was that it meant a fetus that died but is still in the womb. It is probably because of the rainbow bridge term. I was relieved to learn the real meaning. "Rainbow baby" was casually and repeatedly mentioned in Instagram comments of a celebrity who just announced her pregnancy and the morbidity of multiple strangers commenting on her dead baby (as I perceived it) was quite something for me. It says something either about myself or about our Internet oversharing culture, that I didn't find it impossible to conclude. 

[BachelorToTheRapture]

On 4/21/2019 at 8:28 PM, VeryNikeSeamstress said:

You can't have a resurrection without an erection. #sorryIm12 #seeingmyselftotheprayercloset #Jesuslovesthemall

I like Lauren's dress.

The tshirt under the (already fairly modest) dress seems a little close to JRod MODESTY!!111!11!1!!1!!

[Audrey2]

My first thought of Rainbow Babies was always Rainbow Babies and Children's Hospital in Cleveland. 

[nvmbr02]

8 hours ago, JesSky03 said:

I don't understand why someone would be disgusted by the term but I understand not wanting to use it. I personally don't really refer to my son as my rainbow baby even though he was born after 2 losses. I don't like the idea of already giving him a label and making it seem like he is living in the shadow of the babies I lost. 

I don't use the term publicly but I do tend to think of my youngest as my rainbow baby. She was born after 3 losses but it is more a rainbow just seems to fit her.  My oldest is also born after a loss but the term has just never for her.

In any case, I agree it isn't a label that fits everyone and certainly not something a stranger should use to label someone else's pregnancy/child. 

[nickelodeon]

The way that the commenter projects the "rainbow baby" thing onto Lauren is weird, but it also reinforces the fact that she's been made into a storyline for her public. Her body is a narrative that these people feel entitled to, and they project their ideas of a happy ending onto it.

It's creepy and it makes me think that probably teenage hyper-sheltered emotionally-unprepared cult members should not have their miscarriages broadcasted as public entertainment.

[VelociRapture]

12 hours ago, nickelodeon said:

The way that the commenter projects the "rainbow baby" thing onto Lauren is weird, but it also reinforces the fact that she's been made into a storyline for her public. Her body is a narrative that these people feel entitled to, and they project their ideas of a happy ending onto it.

It's creepy and it makes me think that probably teenage hyper-sheltered emotionally-unprepared cult members should not have their miscarriages broadcasted as public entertainment.

Not just for her public though. For THE public. People here have been questioning whether she’s pregnant again or not, though thankfully no one here has indicated they’ve actually asked her about it (one point to FJ for showing some basic common sense!) That’s mostly been based off the photo of the three couples or the sign post on Facebook rather than based off her actual body, but it’s still the same thing. The general public, whether they like her or not, feels they’re entitled to discuss her health and body and the contents of her womb because she’s become a storyline on the show. 

[singsingsing]

Editing because I posted something that came off way snippier than I intended. I'm sick and my brain isn't firing on all cylinders. The gist of what I was trying to say is that I see no problem whatsoever with discussing and speculating about Lauren's life/potential pregnancies, because she's chosen to make that very public and has invited everyone to care and be invested in it (both her miscarriage and the fact that she's trying for a baby). But it's still weird and (I think) quite rude to say things like that directly to her. Not the sin to end all sins, but definitely unnecessary and clueless.

Edited April 24, 2019 by singsingsing

[SassyPants]

0f course people whose families made a living off of rampant reproduction, and who outside of Jinger, to date, have reproduced either quickly, often, or both, are going to endure speculation on whether or not they are expecting. It is the only thing that they are known for and what has made them (in)famous. And their shows still continue. Isn’t one even called CountingOn? We talk about actors, models, scientists, politicians....with regards to their professions or what has made them famous too. Why do we bend over backwards to avoid talking about the pink elephant in the room? And no, I do not publicly say anything about whether or anyone is pg, but come on here! They are making a living off of mass reproduction, of course people are going to speculate!

[nickelodeon]

Yeah, to qualify what I said above, I do think that the Duggars’ lack of private/public boundaries is self inflicted. It’s a super shitty thing to inflict on yourself though.

[VelociRapture]

1 hour ago, singsingsing said:

Editing because I posted something that came off way snippier than I intended. I'm sick and my brain isn't firing on all cylinders. The gist of what I was trying to say is that I see no problem whatsoever with discussing and speculating about Lauren's life/potential pregnancies, because she's chosen to make that very public and has invited everyone to care and be invested in it (both her miscarriage and the fact that she's trying for a baby). But it's still weird and (I think) quite rude to say things like that directly to her. Not the sin to end all sins, but definitely unnecessary and clueless.

I started writing a response to your original comment that turned out extremely sarcastic, so I deleted it and started over. I’m tired and grumpy and it wouldn’t have been my best moment on the site. Now I’m glad I did because I see you edited that portion of your own comment for similar reasons (and side note, I hope you feel better soon!) I’ll keep this short as we both probably could use some sleep:

Suffice to say that I do find it creepy and I really don’t think we are ever going to see eye to on eye this particular topic. I’ll respectfully agree to disagree with you on whether it’s ok for people to feel entitled to speculate on the contents of a stranger’s uterus, regardless of whether that stranger is employed on a reality show or not.

[SassyPants]

Why is it crass to quietly wonder if a person of childbearing years is PG? Asking aloud or gossiping about such,sure, but to wonder? Heck when  my niece showed up at Christmas obviously PG with #3 we all just waited for her to announce- even those of us who would never make a comment about the contents of another’s uterus still wonder! 

I wouldn’t speculate about a PG for most reality TV stars, only those who have made or who currently make their living off mass reproduction.

Edited April 24, 2019 by SassyPants

[Glasgowghirl]

Pregnancy speculation is always going to be around the Duggar and Bates women, it's a big part of their brand but I personally would not ask any of them if they were expecting, especially when they have recently lost a baby, Lauren and Whitney or are experiencing trouble conceiving, Micheal. 

I'm glad Josiah, I'm assuming it was him because Lauren usually says it's her commenting, shot that rumour down quick in the comments. Being in the public eye, for whatever reason doesn't make you public property, so people need to respect other people's personal boundaries.

 

[SassyPants]

2 minutes ago, Glasgowghirl said:

Pregnancy speculation is always going to be around the Duggar and Bates women, it's a big part of their brand but I personally would not ask any of them if they were expecting, especially when they have recently lost a baby, Lauren and Whitney or are experiencing trouble conceiving, Micheal. 

I'm glad Josiah, I'm assuming it was him because Lauren usually says it's her commenting, shot that rumour down quick in the comments. Being in the public eye, for whatever reason doesn't make you public property, so people need to respect other people's personal boundaries.

 

I think beyond all else COMMON SENSE should be applied in ALL situations. I am pretty sure their fans would be more inclined to have personal boundaries issues vs FJers. I think sometimes we disregard common sense - 

[SassyPantswithASideofClass]

Is Lauren pregnant and I am just now hearing about it? I know she lost her first baby not that long ago... Poor Lauren  

[Ivycoveredtower]

49 minutes ago, SassyPantswithASideofClass said:

Is Lauren pregnant and I am just now hearing about it? I know she lost her first baby not that long ago... Poor Lauren  

there is some speculation that both her and Abby could be. it's been about six months since she had the miscarriage it was October sometime.  I do feel bad for her watching Jessa's pregnancy since Jessa has told us that she and Lauren had the same Due date. 

[Pretzel]

1 hour ago, SassyPants said:

I think beyond all else COMMON SENSE should be applied in ALL situations. I am pretty sure their fans would be more inclined to have personal boundaries issues vs FJers. I think sometimes we disregard common sense - 

Unfortunately, too few people apply common sense these days. Some people really go overboard if they get worked up over something.

The Duggars created a brand on the basis of reproduction for Jesus. Anyone who‘s a part of their show and in the public eye will sooner or later be the object of pregnancy speculation, and that is fair game as long as people remain decent. Unfortunately, there‘s a broad interpretation of what constitutes "decent". 

IMHO it is not decent to ask any of these people whether they are pregnant. Not in general, not on social media, not IRL and especially not after a loss. Would anyone IRL really walk up to them (with them most likely not knowing who‘s approaching them) and ask them about their family planning and state of their uterus? I truly hope most people wouldn‘t. The same goes for people who‘ve been open and public with their struggles to conceive. It always depends on *what* people say, but staying respectful and not ambush these people with nosiness would be what I‘d call common sense and decency. Sometimes common sense means to just wish people that they have a nice day and not butt into their private lives. Even reality TV stars can expect people to treat them respectfully. 

However, as long as they decide to be a part of a TV show, they need to accept that there are platforms that make their lives topics of detailed speculation and  long discussions (just like FJ). If they do not want this, they can choose to become private. That also includes their social media presence. If people want to attract viewers and followers or try to make money via SM they better accept that strangers will butt in and ask blunt questions. They need to overlook that or decide to go private and find work that won‘t feature them on the front page of People magazine. 

We also need to be careful with what we project into these people. I certainly wouldn‘t want anyone to speculate on whether I am pregnant or not, but my entire life is not designed around a cult that glorifies reproduction. I think people sometimes identify too much and become too defensive of Duggars and Co. I am repeating myself, applying common sense and trying to be decent does not mean people can‘t talk about reality stars at all. 

Edited April 24, 2019 by Pretzel