Spanky Sproul 3: Rationality Is NOT in the Mix

[BobJonesBabe]

13 minutes ago, 241 said:

Not sure why you seem opposed to my particular post. Not especially concerned though. Like you I am free to vent- unlike you I vent what I know to be true.

If you see this family as so toxic, then why...in heaven's name...did you still marry into it? What redeeming qualities of RCJr stood out that still thought it gave you the right to completely trash the rest of the family? (And I hope you realize that by what you've shared...he's not blameless. In fact, he likely bears much of the responsibility if it's true...because he CHOSE to structure his family this way and create the family hierarchy that he did.) 

[laPapessaGiovanna]

14 minutes ago, 241 said:

Not sure why you seem opposed to my particular post. Not especially concerned though. Like you I am free to vent- unlike you I vent what I know to be true.

Not sure why you are opposed to children mourning their mother and honouring her memory.

[BobJonesBabe]

On Spanky's unhealthy food choices, that may have had minor impact on Denise's health. But she likely would have died anyway. 

However, Denise is one among several people who went to school at Bayshore High School in Bradenton, Florida, and there was a huge cancer cluster there. (This is also though to be the reason Shannon was born with disability.) 

https://www.wtsp.com/article/news/health/cancer-cluster-deadline-approaching-for-bayshore-high-school/67-530095844

There is info on this that does include her name, but I'm not able to find it at the moment. 

[nausicaa]

1 hour ago, laPapessaGiovanna said:

Mighty word salad! I hope you are not in the position of homeschooling anybody @241, I feel like I, an ESL person, would do a better job.

Seriously. For people who love to talk of their homeschooling-derived superiority, why don't they realize their weak writing skills undermine all of their arguments?

And if one is so fond of liberally sprinkling in em dashes (--) then one should perhaps learn how to format them and realize they are not hyphens (-). 

BTW, I can't see Instagram posts on my work computer so I am just now seeing Lisa's ginger post. Did...did she actually refer to herself as a beautiful bride? Can you even imagine photo shopping a meme comparing oneself to royalty and bragging about how attractive one is, and then posting it for everyone to see? I would rather just be killed on the spot.

And keep in mind, this is a forty-something grandmother. We are at five alarm narcissism at this point (aka Code Doug Phillips).

Edited January 24, 2019 by nausicaa

[241]

23 minutes ago, laPapessaGiovanna said:

Not sure why you are opposed to children mourning their mother and honouring her memory.

Why would I be opposed to that?

[Banyan]

52 minutes ago, 241 said:

“Blaming” seems to be the moto starting at the top of the food chain in this family or ministry.  There really isn’t a nice way to nuance bullying.

If indeed Darby is "bullying" Lisa, as you claim, are you naive enough to be at all surprised? Given the kind of example Darby's father set her entire life I'm pretty sure none of the readers here are the least surprised. Doesn't the bible say "You reap what you sow"? It also says something about "You sow the wind and reap the whirlwind."

RC Jr was defrocked in 2006 for bullying and spiritual abuse. He spitefully and maliciously targeted and bullied entire families over the most trivial issues, including little children for the alleged "sins" of their parents, and all under the guise of "church discipline."  He demanded that his congregation punish the targets of his vendettas by shunning them. His St. Peter Presbyterian Church was known around SW Virginia as a "cult group" and he its "cult leader."  He hadn't gained that reputation so much for his aberrant doctrines (although he certainly had a lot of that too) but for aberrant practices, including physical abuse of babies -- Gary Ezzo "blanket training" which RC Jr practiced on his own children and actively encouraged. The Sproul children were physically abused from the time they were infants. No telling how late in their development the abuse continued.

St. Peter's church keggers, not to mention gun range parties shooting up targets and effigies of Bill and Hillary Clinton, had become legendary. The tiny community of Mendota were scared out of their minds that another Jonestown was developing right in their midst.

RC Jr set a frightening example of spitefulness, bullying, vengeance and vendettas, but dressed it all up in "biblical" vernacular. Should anyone be surprised if some of his own children picked up on that themselves? In comparison to the hateful man at "the top of the food chain in this family or ministry", Darby's actions are tame. What really surprises me is that, to the best of anyone's knowledge, none of the Sproul children wound up becoming drunkards.

[241]

4 minutes ago, nausicaa said:

Seriously. For people who love to talk of their homeschooling-derived superiority, why don't they realize their weak writing skills undermine all of their arguments?

Um? When have I spoken of my love for homeschooling?  @nausicaa Not sure why you are implying this, or furthermore why homeschooling matters. 

[241]

4 minutes ago, Banyan said:

If indeed Darby is "bullying" Lisa, as you claim, are you naive enough to be at all surprised? Given the kind of example Darby's father set her entire life I'm pretty sure none of the readers here are the least surprised. Doesn't the bible say "You reap what you sow"? It also says something about "You sow the wind and reap the whirlwind."

Darby’s behaviors are her own.  She stands alone. Whether or not her father got defrocked, he was reinstated along with many others at St. Peter.  Perhaps facts really aren’t your thing.  Not sure why your battle is with me, homeschooling, or my grammar skills or lack thereof. I’m a music major not English. 

 

 

[laPapessaGiovanna]

17 minutes ago, 241 said:

Why would I be opposed to that?

You remember typing this right?

2 hours ago, 241 said:

I followed the memorial on Denise’s page-ridiculous. No one wants to see all that drama. And Darby does admit it was her fathers memorial page he deleted and with her “genetic bullying” strategy admits how she got it resurrected. Her dad confronts her. Betty Lou starts tagging for people to come and fight for her- it’s like they are all 12yo. One thing I have to say a fight was breaking out! Everyone felt entitled to their opinions. 

So many layers here- Convoluted. Toxic. Layers.  

A mother and grandmother was commemorating her late daughter as were her grandchildren. Then Precious ruined everything. Only someone as self centered as Spanky and FLOTSH would describe what happened with your terms.

Edited January 24, 2019 by laPapessaGiovanna
Grammar

[241]

12 minutes ago, Banyan said:

What really surprises me is that, to the best of anyone's knowledge, none of the Sproul children wound up becoming drunkards.

You’re knowledgeable is limited. 

[laPapessaGiovanna]

Just now, 241 said:

You’re knowledgeable is limited. 

Please tell me your autocorrect went rogue. Russian bots in tRump Twitter feed make more sense.

14 minutes ago, 241 said:

Um? When have I spoken of my love for homeschooling?  @nausicaa Not sure why you are implying this, or furthermore why homeschooling matters. 

You said you are part of a very conservative Christian church, the type of church whose members tend to homeschool their offsprings. It was an inference.

[241]

15 minutes ago, laPapessaGiovanna said:

You remember typing this right?

Agreed. But every notification I continued to get was a “brew ha ha” of a greater reality the page was a resurrected page once owned by the “administrator, mate” of the deceased. Darby forementions she’s blocked and someone posts her comment where she admits how the page ended up there. I finally turned off the notifications, because it was a screaming match of angry people justifying a wrongly resurrected paged while R.C. confronted and all was dismissed. Knowing this family is personal for me. I’ve seen R.C. get better and his offspring get worse, not better.  They all know no one was saying grieving was wrong.

11 minutes ago, laPapessaGiovanna said:

You said you are part of a very conservative Christian church, the type of church whose members tend to homeschool their offsprings. It was an inference.

And your hypothesis was wrong. Don’t assume because I attend a church where homeschooling is supported and dominative in the culture of some that I was or am. 

11 minutes ago, laPapessaGiovanna said:

14 minutes ago, 241 said:

You’re knowledgeable is limited. 

Please tell me your autocorrect went rogue. Russian bots in tRump Twitter feed make more sense.

Probably so.

Edited January 24, 2019 by 241

[241]

1 hour ago, BobJonesBabe said:

If you see this family as so toxic, then why...in heaven's name...did you still marry into it? What redeeming qualities of RCJr stood out that still thought it gave you the right to completely trash the rest of the family? 

Good grief! I’m not married to RC.  Either this is paranoia or really bad judgement.

Edited January 24, 2019 by 241

[laPapessaGiovanna]

20 minutes ago, 241 said:

They all know no one was saying grieving was wrong.

Both Spanky and FLOTSH did, in unequivocal terms. You implied it in condemning the way some members of Denise's family chose to commemorate her, "resurrecting" her FB page and keeping it as a memorial. I can't comprehend how this choice can be interpreted as a sick move on their part. It takes a great deal of narcissism to demand that every photographic memory of Denise with her husband be deleted.

24 minutes ago, 241 said:

I’ve seen R.C. get better and his offspring get worse, not better.

Let me recap, HE is an alcoholic, HE gets arrested for DUI with minors on board and THEY are the ones who got progressively worse. Suuure.

[241]

10 minutes ago, laPapessaGiovanna said:

Let me recap, HE is an alcoholic, HE gets arrested for DUI with minors on board and THEY are the ones who got progressively worse. Suuure.

Let me recap. I have no idea if he was “actually” diagnosed as an alcoholic. You may have assigned him that label, but I do not know if it is true diagnosis. Nor do you, since your stated comments are not established facts. I do know from personal circles he hasn’t drank since that night. I don’t live in his house, so I don’t know for absolute fact. As noted previous,  his whole family drinks socially and often. And anyone, yes anyone could have had a DUI if they drank and had kids in the car. No one is disputing what he did. It was a crime. You seem to have a propensity to die on this hill. Get over the hill to a new day and deal with other issues. ?

[hoipolloi]

28 minutes ago, 241 said:

Good grief! I’m not married to RC.

 

We're not stupid, Lisa Schmoopy @241 -- your lengthy, semi-coherent rants aren't fooling anyone here. 

Keep exposing your backside, if it makes you happy to do so. We see you for who and what you really are.

[241]

3 minutes ago, hoipolloi said:

Good grief! I’m not married to RC

Didn’t you use that meme already? 

Edited January 24, 2019 by 241

[241]

15 minutes ago, hoipolloi said:

We're not stupid, Lisa Schmoopy @241 -- your lengthy, semi-coherent rants aren't fooling anyone here. 

 Keep exposing your backside, if it makes you happy to do so. We see you for who and what you really are.

Lots of false assumptions here.

Edited January 24, 2019 by 241

[mountaineer]

3 minutes ago, 241 said:

Lots of false assumptions here.

OK, I believe that you're not Lisa, which means I have more questions about your knowledge of the situation, particularly regarding church discipline. 

I see that there are direct links between your church and St. Peter.  Your pastor is on some type of advisory board for Highlands Ministries, correct?  And I'm going to assume also the father-in-law of Laurence Windham's eldest daughter?  But Jr is not a member of either of these churches, and from what I understand has left the denomination entirely.  Yet you speak of "our denomination" and "our elders" having direct contact with him and providing counsel as though they have spiritual authority over both Jr. and Darby (and thus, the authority to "take sides" in this situation).  How does that work if he lives in Indiana and is no longer a Presbyterian? 

[mountaineer]

42 minutes ago, 241 said:

And anyone, yes anyone could have had a DUI if they drank and had kids in the car. No one is disputing what he did.

And let me also just say I don't understand your point here.  Anyone, yes anyone could get a DUI? Well, yes, if by anyone you mean anyone who drinks to the point of diminished capacity and then gets behind the wheel.  That's kind of the point. It's not like DUI's are handed out arbitrarily, and it's not like most people consider it a no-big-deal infraction like speeding a little.  Are you insinuating that most people drive children around while drunk and he was just one of the unlucky ones to get stopped that particular night?

You may not be disputing what he did, but you have repeatedly charged his kids with the apparently grave sin of excessive drinking while not batting an eye at his lifelong, um, enthusiasm for the bottle.  That's kind of weird.  That makes it pretty clear you've got a horse in this race, ya know?

 

[241]

26 minutes ago, mountaineer said:

Yet you speak of "our denomination" and "our elders" having direct contact with him and providing counsel as though they have spiritual authority over both Jr. and Darby 

 

Darby and I attend the same church, a denomination her father was apart of before his resignation. My pastor had been in the presbytery along her father. There are many churches under this denomination throughout the U.S., which these pastors are all part of the same presbytery.  They do not have jurisdiction over her father currently,  however they were caught is spreading lies to which the presbytery are getting backlash from. Many came from her father’s church in VA or knew he and Denise from couples camp or the study center.

 

 

Edited January 24, 2019 by 241

[Banyan]

42 minutes ago, 241 said:

Whether or not her father got defrocked, he was reinstated along with many others at St. Peter.  Perhaps facts really aren’t your thing.

Au contaire! Facts are indeed important to me. Why are they not important to you? For someone so eager to accuse others for their alleged lack of grasping facts you are remarkably ignorant of the facts yourself.

What exactly do you mean by "Whether or not her father got defrocked"? Is Sproul's defrocking not abundantly clear to you? Is there some doubt in your mind that he was defrocked by his Presbyterian denomination?  The record of his defrocking is public record . To clear up your doubt in your mind you might want to review it.

And what do you mean when you say that RC Sproul Jr was "reinstatated?" I think you need a dictionary because you don't appear to comprehend the term "reinstated." The only folks who would've had the authority to reinstate him would have been the denomination that ordained him in the first place and subsequently removed that ordination. After Sproul's defrocking by the RPCGA Doug Wilson (which isn't Presbyterian or even a denomination) appointed a "pastoral commission" and magically declared that RC Jr "shall not be required to fulfill the process for ordination and shall be considered ordained within the CREC accordingly." The CREC "reinstated" nothing. They just said he could serve in the CREC regardless of his being defrocked. Hardly the first time Doug Wilson and the CREC had welcomed defrocked Presbyterian pastors (e.g. Burke Shade, Dennis Turri, etc.) Ultimately Sproul pissed off enough people in the CREC that he had no choice but to leave there too. He fled to the Covenant Presbyterian Church (founded by James McDonald of Stacy and James McDonald fame) where he was officially ordained as an Evangelist, not a Pastor. Even the CPC recognized Sproul lacked the qualifications of pastor.

Also what do you mean by "reinstated along with many others at St. Peter"?  What members of St. Peter were ever "reinstated" by Sproul? Were the Austins ever reinstated? Which of the dozen or so families subsequent to the Austins that Sproul and his session of ecclesiastical thugs excommunicated were ever reinstated? The fact is there were none. Sproul has never reinstated, restored, or forgiven anyone. He is a hateful vindicate little man with a Napoleon complex who doesn't know the meaning of forgiveness.

[241]

23 minutes ago, mountaineer said:

You may not be disputing what he did, but you have repeatedly charged his kids with the apparently grave sin of excessive drinking while not batting an eye at his lifelong, um, enthusiasm for the bottle.  That's kind of weird.  That makes it pretty clear you've got a horse in this race, ya know?

As you also have collectively done. Both male and female, solely with the purpose of seeking fact (that maybe an over statement) vs fiction.   The only thing clear here is perspectives, some more clearer than others.  I know who I sit with, the rumors, the lengthy battles, and it has adversely effected our church body and the leaders are becoming subject along with it.

21 minutes ago, Banyan said:

Au contaire! Facts are indeed important to me. Why are they not important to you? For someone so eager to accuse others for their alleged lack of grasping facts you are remarkably ignorant of the facts yourself.

What exactly do you mean by "Whether or not her father got defrocked"? Is Sproul's defrocking not abundantly clear to you? Is there some doubt in your mind that he was defrocked by his Presbyterian denomination?  The record of his defrocking is public record . To clear up your doubt in your mind you might want to review it.

Au contraire! Read the context. He was defrocked and reinstated. If your public records fail to show you that they are wrong. And Laurence Windham, who was also defrocked and reinstated is currently the pastor. To clear your doubt get facts.

21 minutes ago, Banyan said:

He fled to the Covenant Presbyterian Church (founded by James McDonald of Stacy and James McDonald fame) where he was officially ordained as an Evangelist, not a Pastor. Even the CPC recognized Sproul lacked the qualifications of pastor.

Also what do you mean by "reinstated along with many others at St. Peter"?  What members of St. Peter were ever "reinstated" by Sproul? Were the Austins ever reinstated? Which of the dozen or so families subsequent to the Austins that Sproul and his session of ecclesiastical thugs excommunicated were ever reinstated? The fact is there were none. Sproul has never reinstated, restored, or forgiven anyone. He is a hateful vindicate little man with a Napoleon complex who doesn't know the meaning of forgiveness.

This is all incorrect. And it sounds like you are the hateful, vindicated, little man ranting wrongly assuming his document is correct. Wrong.  On the forgiveness note. Wrong. Clearly.

Edited January 24, 2019 by 241

[Banyan]

13 minutes ago, 241 said:

Darby and I attend the same church, a denomination her father was apart of before his resignation.

No need to be coy. It's all public information. The denomination you speak of is the Covenant Presbyterian Church.

I'm truly sorry your church is experiencing such blowback. Your problem is you're entirely focused on the unpleasantries of the blowback itself rather than considering it's underlying cause. Had James and Stacy McDonald not been such fanboys of RC Jr and been so eager to roll out the red carpet to him, ignoring the mountain of evidence that Sproul is and always has been a scandalous moral train wreck, then none of the blowback against your denom and your local church would have ever happened.

Your posts here clearly indicate your eagerness to ignore all that and shift the blame from the grown ups to the children. Good luck with that.

[laPapessaGiovanna]

1 hour ago, 241 said:

Let me recap. I have no idea if he was “actually” diagnosed as an alcoholic. You may have assigned him that label, but I do not know if it is true diagnosis. Nor do you, since your stated comments are not established facts. I do know from personal circles he hasn’t drank since that night. I don’t live in his house, so I don’t know for absolute fact. As noted previous,  his whole family drinks socially and often. And anyone, yes anyone could have had a DUI if they drank and had kids in the car. No one is disputing what he did. It was a crime. You seem to have a propensity to die on this hill. Get over the hill to a new day and deal with other issues. ?

In Lisa Sproul own words: "he was driving slowly, bumping guardrails and not responding to sirens." She also says he has no recollections of that day.

He was driving drunk to the point of blacking out, with two minors on board before lunch hour. That's not something that can happen to anyone, that's not socially drinking. That's a behaviour typical of someone who has a huge alcohol problem.

Btw I used the word alcoholic as in current parlance. If I had wanted to diagnose him I would have said that he has a alcohol abuse disorder or an alcohol dependence. But I didn't because I don't diagnose people over the internet. Nevertheless, I can affirm on the basis of multiple sources that Spanky has an alcohol problem and is therefore an alcoholic in the broad, layperson meaning of the term.