Family Foundation School, over 100 former students commited suicide

[Smash!]

8 hours ago, Smash! said:

And then, someday this person has no strength left and surrenders to the pain and horror that depression is and commits suicide. Like a weak animal in the desert on the way to the next waterhole that is too exhausted to go on and lays down to die. Would you still say this person or animal in the desert had a choice not to die?

@OGEmoji You didn't answer my question as you didn't react to many here who dealt the one way or the other with mental illness. I would really like to hear your opinion on this question.

6 hours ago, Palimpsest said:

You don't seem to get how hard it can be for anyone to reach out for help - or that the right help isn't always available

This. Or sometimes people are so gravely ill that medication, psychotherapy etc. don't or barely work. And unfortunately, unlike for physical illnesses there is no palliative or hospice care available to them.

5 hours ago, OGEmoji said:

I think that at this point there is no sense in us going back and forth on this. You have your views and I have mine. I stand by my factual statements, where I neither attacked anyone nor called them names, because my statements can stand on their own without trying to tear someone down.

@OGEmoji With stating that you think self harm is a choice and standing by your opinion you exactly did the bolded. You're tearing everyone down with a mental illness. You don't acknowledge the nature and severity of this illness. 
Posts like yours make me furious because exactly this way of thinking is why people with mental illnesses still aren't taken seriously. And even when it's so severe that they just can't live anymore, people like you say it was their choice. It doesn't get more coldhearted than this. 

[Smash!]

Ok, I'm coming Forward as well: I suffered major depression and anxiety. Luckily I respond well to medication and psychotherapy and I'm able to live a normal life. I learned how to cope with it when the black dog that is mental illness starts barking again and strains at his leash. I got lucky and I'm very thankful for that. 

This whole discussion is a major trigger for me. Because it reminds me of my dark days, where anxiety and hoplessness were my daily companions. This is just an excerpt and nowhere complete of how it's like to suffer from depression: I nowhere felt save except the floor on the living room at my parents house where I would lay for hours and talk to my mother just to get through the day. I was convinced I would never find a job again (I was employed at that time) and would have to life on social welfare. I was afraid of everything, and thought I lacked the mere ability to survive in this world. The fears chased each other in my mind constantly. There was no break in between. One fearful thought followed the other. My body was in constant alarming mode, I couldn't shut it down even for a second. The world was dark, hopeless, it would never get better, only worse. In my mind, I was a bad person, the worst that ever existed. With no right to live. The thought of living in this Horror for years to come scared the hell out of me. But the thought of death itself was equally scary. I couldn't sleep properly, even at night I couldn't get a break from all this. In the end, I just wanted one second of peace I just wanted to end all of this. An agreement with my mother to stay alive until both of my parents were dead and afterwards I could do with my life whatever I wanted got me through the worst part of my illness. It meant that there was time in which my situation could improve even though I didn't believe it. It meant that I still had an option out if Things wouldn't get better. 

Then came proper help. A therapist that made clear she would go through this with me and that there was hope. With her help I found a way out of this hell. Tried many Things and managed to put that big black dog that is Depression on a leash. The dog won't probably never go away but I learnt how to handle him. 
BUT I got lucky and I know it. There are lots of people out there whose illness isn't as treatable as mine, who do not respond well to medication. 

Uff, that was hard writing it all down. But if it makes only one Person here understand mental illness better, then it was worth it. 

I highly recommend this Comic: I had a black dog

PS: I didn't mention the excrutiating loneliness where I've felt so disconnected from the world, the people, everyone and everything. It was like floating in space 100 of miles away from earth. Where it was a fight everyday to get up. Get dressed. Nothing made sense anymore.  I wasn't able to do my daily chores anymore. My home was a mess. Friends came over to clean, do laundry and look after me. It was like I saw the beautiful life through a window but was jailed in a dungeon with no chance to escape. That good life was for them, everyone else I was excluded from it.

[Kailash]

@OGEmoji You are apparently on the outside, looking in. If there were a fire in a building and you watched from the outside would your view be what people from inside saw? Of course not. People here have been telling you about being in the fire and you’re refusing to accept their truths. 

Everyone I’ve known who has loved someone with a mental illness or addiction wants someone to blame.  Sometimes it’s just brain chemistry. 

Sometimes it’s other people actively kicking mentally ill or troubled children when they are down. There’s no excuse for that. Place blame on the people who chose to let their kids be abused in this way. Place blame on the school. Place blame where someone can be held accountable for their actions. But never place blame on a mentally ill person who wanted out.

[OGEmoji]

10 hours ago, formergothardite said:

But you won't address the posts where people who have dealt with mental illness say that your statements aren't true? It makes it seem like you care more about pushing your idea that self harm is a choice than learning about what it is like to be in the place where you resort to self harm. 

Your "fact" was that people make the choice to hurt themselves. That isn't true. It really isn't. I didn't make the choice to attempt suicide anymore than I make the choice to be allergic to dust. 

It is very frustrating when people want to jump into a discussion about mental illness, push a harmful idea(and the idea that hurting one's self is a choice is harmful), and then not even address the people who have suffered mental illness and are sharing their stories. 

Because almost every single person has acknowledged that what I said is true. That even though it may have seemed like they had no control, ultimately nobody else was controlling their bodies and actions. And that is my point. They still have that power. They may feel low and hopeless and have tunnel vision om their prpblems, but they still have control over their actions.

 

If someone is so far lost in their illness that they have no control over their actions, they should be admitted to a hospital where they can be helped through that time by competent professionals.

2 hours ago, Kailash said:

@OGEmoji You are apparently on the outside, looking in. If there were a fire in a building and you watched from the outside would your view be what people from inside saw? Of course not. People here have been telling you about being in the fire and you’re refusing to accept their truths. 

Everyone I’ve known who has loved someone with a mental illness or addiction wants someone to blame.  Sometimes it’s just brain chemistry. 

Sometimes it’s other people actively kicking mentally ill or troubled children when they are down. There’s no excuse for that. Place blame on the people who chose to let their kids be abused in this way. Place blame on the school. Place blame where someone can be held accountable for their actions. But never place blame on a mentally ill person who wanted out.

Out of curiosity, would you say someone homicidal is not to blame? Someone so deep into mental illness that they give into their urges to take the life of another human being. Maybe it's a temporary blind rage situation, maybe  it's a long term pre planned thing. Do we as a society not expect the murder to acknowldge their actions as the cause of the other person's death? Or a rapist or molester? Of course their mental illness is what drove them to it but we still expect them to control their bodies.

Why is it different to say an addict or suicidal person should be expected to be responsible  for their actions? Not to say they are responsible for their illness or the way it makes them feel, just the actions.

Again, I truly, truly feel for sufferers. And to each of you who shared your story, thank you. I know it takes a lot of courage, and I hate that there  are such negative stigmas around mental illness.  I want for everyone to feel worthy of the life they deserve, and for no one and nothing to take that away from you.

[formergothardite]

33 minutes ago, OGEmoji said:

If someone is so far lost in their illness that they have no control over their actions, they should be admitted to a hospital where they can be helped through that time by competent professionals.

Obviously. And I was. Part of the healing process was accepting that I had no choice in the matter. I wasn't making choices to behave in a crazy and harmful way. I did things I would never do in a normal state. 

 

33 minutes ago, OGEmoji said:

hate that there  are such negative stigmas around mental illness. 

You realize how much harm it does to say mentally ill people are no different than murderers and rapists? The idea that mentally ill people are making a choice to behave this way helps create this negative stigma. Because if it is a choice, then mentally ill people are just choosing bad behavior and can be looked down on negatively for making bad life choices. 

[laPapessaGiovanna]

34 minutes ago, OGEmoji said:

Out of curiosity, would you say someone homicidal is not to blame? Someone so deep into mental illness that they give into their urges to take the life of another human being. Maybe it's a temporary blind rage situation, maybe  it's a long term pre planned thing. Do we as a society not expect the murder to acknowldge their actions as the cause of the other person's death? Or a rapist or molester? Of course their mental illness is what drove them to it but we still expect them to control their bodies.

You know that "not guilty for reson of insanity" exists, right?

Anyway you are conflating different things all together, being suicidal and being homicidal are two pretty different things. As I often say assholeness is not a mental illness. Most (that doesn't mean all) mentally ill people are not impaired in their ability to distinguish moral behaviour, their moral compass is perfectly fine and wouldn't willingly hurt anybody.

BTW if you can't understand that mental illnesses are as varied and different in their implications as physical illnesses, you are so deeply ignorant on this matter that I can't understand why you don't shut up and listen and educate yourself.

[Smash!]

15 minutes ago, OGEmoji said:

Because almost every single person has acknowledged that what I said is true. That even though it may have seemed like they had no control, ultimately nobody else was controlling their bodies and actions. And that is my point. They still have that power. They may feel low and hopeless and have tunnel vision om their prpblems, but they still have control over their actions.

How often do we have to say that this isn't true?! They don't don't don't. No they didn't die in an accident, they weren't killed by someone else. Maybe "power" and "control" is still somewhere in their brains but they can't access it. It's locked behind a door and they lost the key to it. Please get that. If you say that these things are still there, fine but accept that they can't use it.

You feel for sufferers and hate the negative stigma around it. Yet you help creating those stigmas by saying what you say.

[laPapessaGiovanna]

On 10/14/2018 at 4:50 PM, OGEmoji said:

I took the highlighted quote to mean that the former students came to the conclusion that their classmates died due to the very demons that sent them to the school to begin with. I don't read that as the opinion of the author but of the people they interviewed.

Except that in the quotes properly attributed to the former students, they tell a very different story. If that is a quote from a former student the writer should have properly attributed it, otherwise it is just the opinion of the journalist. And a victim blaming one. In any case that part doesn't meet the journalistic standards you'd expect from the NYT.

15 hours ago, OGEmoji said:

Mental illness is unpreventable

Wrong.

Many mental illnesses can be prevented.

No wars=no vets with PTSD.

No domestic violence=no victims with PTSD.

Making clear that beating tantrums out of toddlers is WRONG, would go a long way.

Better mental health care=no need to self medicate with drugs and alcohol.

Better mental health care for new mothers with a history of depressive bouts or with a history of mental illnesses in the family=far reduced risks of PPD and PPP. 

Cultivating emotional intelligence in kids, teaching them basic mental health hygiene, teaching them healthy ways to cope with stressors, teaching them that seeking help and TALK is an incredibly healthy behaviour.  

REMOVING THE FUCKING STIGMA FROM MENTAL ILLNESSES. Starting from the fact that mental illnesses are EXACTLY LIKE PHYSICAL ONES.

BTW mental illnesses can be contagious. Mentally ill parents that don't get therapy can seriously undermine the mental health of their children. A vet suffering from untreated war related mental illnesses can cause other people to suffer and develop other mental illnesses of their own and so on. Mental health is not a problem just for those who are affected by an illness or for the professionals who deal with them. Mental health is a problem for the whole society.

Of course prevention doesn't work for everything, if schizophrenia runs in your family, you have increased chances to develop it and there's not much you can do to prevent it. Same with major depression and bipolar disorder for example. 

[laPapessaGiovanna]

12 hours ago, AliceInFundyland said:

Oh you condescending twatwaffle. How DARE you? Did I say was scared of my feelings or that I was going to hurt myself at this moment? You recycled the same sentiment you expressed to the other poster upthread who mentioned a familiarity with suicidal ideation. 

Get bent and excuse yourself.

If you don't mind, I have to cyber-kiss you. Go girl you rock! 

[laPapessaGiovanna]

1 hour ago, OGEmoji said:

Do we as a society not expect the murder to acknowldge their actions as the cause of the other person's death? Or a rapist or molester? Of course their mental illness is what drove them to it but we still expect them to control their bodies.

I may have missed the lesson when they said that murderers, rapists and molesters are mentally ill and that's the reason of their behaviour. Funnily enough, I think the manual missed it too. And the DSM-V and the ICD-11. /sarcasm

Criminality is not a mental illness.

[OGEmoji]

1 hour ago, formergothardite said:

Obviously. And I was. Part of the healing process was accepting that I had no choice in the matter. I wasn't making choices to behave in a crazy and harmful way. I did things I would never do in a normal state. 

 

You realize how much harm it does to say mentally ill people are no different than murderers and rapists? The idea that mentally ill people are making a choice to behave this way helps create this negative stigma. Because if it is a choice, then mentally ill people are just choosing bad behavior and can be looked down on negatively for making bad life choices. 

But murderers and rapists are mentally ill. Their illness manifests differently, but my point was why do we accept that their actions were their own, but not accept the actions of a an addict are their own.

I'm not saying they are morally comparable, simply that they are also under the broader diagnoses of mentally ill. No mentally healthy person does these things.

[OGEmoji]

46 minutes ago, laPapessaGiovanna said:

I may have missed the lesson when they said that murderers, rapists and molesters are mentally ill and that's the reason of their behaviour. Funnily enough, I think the manual missed it too. And the DSM-V and the ICD-11. /sarcasm

Criminality is not a mental illness.

Of course criminality is not a dsm diagnoses. Criminality is a symptom of the illness. Pedophilia is the dx, molestation is the manifestion. Depression may be the dx, with drug abuse (also an illegal activity) and the manifestation.

Are you seriously suggesting that people who commit the above referenced crimes are not  showing manifestations of being mentally ill?  And you think I'm the misinformed one? 

[laPapessaGiovanna]

59 minutes ago, OGEmoji said:

But murderers and rapists are mentally ill. Their illness manifests differently, but my point was why do we accept that their actions were their own, but not accept the actions of a an addict are their own.

I'm not saying they are morally comparable, simply that they are also under the broader diagnoses of mentally ill. No mentally healthy person does these things.

I don't know what 19th century treaty you are referring at, modern psychology doesn't support your opinion.

30 minutes ago, OGEmoji said:

Of course criminality is not a dsm diagnoses. Criminality is a symptom of the illness. Pedophilia is the dx, molestation is the manifestion. Depression may be the dx, with drug abuse (also an illegal activity) and the manifestation.

Are you seriously suggesting that people who commit the above referenced crimes are not  showing manifestations of being mentally ill?  And you think I'm the misinformed one? 

WTF am I reading? Addiction IS a diagnosis, Substance Use Disorder, to be precise. And you know that you can be addicted to legal substances (like alcohol) right? Or to legal behaviours such as gambling, right?

BTW try looking for paedophilia in the DSM, try.

ETA http://jaapl.org/content/42/4/404 you may find this helpful, you don't need to correspond to the diagnostic criteria for paedophilia to be a child molester. ETA2 viceversa you may fit the definition without having ever molested a child.

[Georgiana]

10 minutes ago, OGEmoji said:

Of course criminality is not a dsm diagnoses. Criminality is a symptom of the illness. Pedophilia is the dx, molestation is the manifestion. Depression may be the dx, with drug abuse (also an illegal activity) and the manifestation.

Are you seriously suggesting that people who commit the above referenced crimes are not  showing manifestations of being mentally ill?  And you think I'm the misinformed one? 

Yeeeeah, I’m definitely going to need a citation for this because every respectable publication I have ever read says precisely otherwise.

Here’s a very accessible source of my own that pulls from a few:

https://www.time-to-change.org.uk/media-centre/responsible-reporting/violence-mental-health-problems

[Palimpsest]

Yeah, thanks @Georgiana.

I'm very short on time today but two articles that may be useful:

Re: Pedophilia and DSM 5 - it is (or was) kinda in there as a Dx.   The APA wanted it removed or significantly modified.  I'm not sure what the status is today though:  http://jaapl.org/content/42/4/404

And, yes, with a few notable exceptions, people with mental illness are much more likely to be the victims of crime not the perpetrators.  They also make up far too large a percentage of prison populations.  Generally speaking, early intervention and decent outpatient care is more effective, cost efficient, and humane than involuntary commitment to residential care.  Tell that to the policy makers.    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2015/02/20/facts-about-mental-illness-and-crime/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.66521b161312

 

 

 

[Georgiana]

Just now, Palimpsest said:

Yeah, thanks @Georgiana.

I'm very short on time today but two articles that may be useful:

Re: Pedophilia and DSM 5 - it is (or was) kinda in there as a Dx.   The APA wanted it removed or significantly modified.  I'm not sure what the status is today though:  http://jaapl.org/content/42/4/404

And, yes, with a few notable exceptions, people with mental illness are much more likely to be the victims of crime not the perpetrators.  They also make up far too large a percentage of prison populations.  Generally speaking, early intervention and decent outpatient care is more effective, cost efficient, and humane than involuntary commitment to residential care.  Tell that to the policy makers.    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2015/02/20/facts-about-mental-illness-and-crime/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.66521b161312

 

 

 

Thank you, @Palimpsest.  I've been meaning to mention how much I always appreciate your posts lately, because even when you are short on time, you are always adding so much value to the discussion.

[samurai_sarah]

44 minutes ago, laPapessaGiovanna said:

I don't know what 19th century treaty you are referring at, modern psychology doesn't support your opinion. (snip)

I suppose it's a reference to the M'Naghten Rules, which are still in effect in modern day English law. Basically, they were written before the advent of modern psychology or psychiatry to determine if someone was mentally incompetent. They're problematic, but remain within English case law. Effectively, you end up determining mental competence by 19th century standards.

[Palimpsest]

Thank you, @Georgiana.  But ::pouts:: Only lately? 'Scuse me while I go and cry over my cup of tea.  Served in a pink floral tea cup, naturally.

But before I sign off for the day, why the flying fuck are we talking about violent crime by people with MI on a thread discussing self-harm and suicide?  I thought even the legal system had done away with attempted suicide being considered "committing" a crime punishable by prison and a "committing" a sin by religious institutions.

That is with the exception of suicide bombers and mass shootings and that ilk.  But those crimes are not manifestations of depression - unlike the vast majority of attempted or completed suicides and self-harm.

[FullOfGravy]

If I can try a slightly different analogy here - imagine putting on someone else's glasses.  Someone whose prescription is way different from yours.  Imagine walking around with those glasses on.  Some of your steps will be fine.  Others will result in stubbing your toes and bumping into furniture and tripping over stairs because they didn't look like they usually do.  Each of the steps you made was under your control.  You put your foot down in either the right or wrong place.  You made some bad moves... because you were basing your movements on bad input, on a mistaken understanding of where things are in the world.  And it's not reasonable to expect you to be able to move normally when your view of your surroundings looks like a funhouse mirror.  I can tut-tut over your clumsiness and tell you to go to an optometrist, and maybe you will.  Or maybe you can't afford to, or there are no optometrists in your area, or they just aren't very good.

Now imagine that someone has strapped those glasses to your head, and you can't take them off, and that instead of showing your furniture in the wrong place, they're showing you how terrible the world is.  What a horrible person you are.  All the people around you who would be better off if you were dead.  Constant replays of the most traumatic experiences of your life. 

That's mental illness.  Viewing the world through a skewed lens, and making moves based on that flawed input.  How it's skewed, and how severely, depends on the person and the illness.  If you're lucky, therapy and/or medication may help you to clear your vision, or at least understand how wonky your view is and work around it.  If not, you just keep stubbing your toes and tripping on things until you fall down.

Horrible, abusive institutions may not push people down themselves, but they help to strap on those glasses.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

On 10/14/2018 at 9:50 AM, OGEmoji said:

I took the highlighted quote to mean that the former students came to the conclusion that their classmates died due to the very demons that sent them to the school to begin with. I don't read that as the opinion of the author but of the people they interviewed.

I am writing this as someone who has a lot more experience than anyone should have about schools like this....so I know a little more than you, despite not having your vast wisdom gleaned from reading an article.

Fuck you.

I just deleted a shit load of stuff that I shouldn't post here, but I can't remember the last time I felt so personally triggered and beyond angry by a thread on FJ.  

How dare you speak to things you don't understand?  How dare you pretend to know how people who had troubles (some mental illnesses, some not) react to being stripped of control and put in a torturous situation when they are most vulnerable feel?

You have no idea what you're talking about and you need to stop.

[AliceInFundyland]

Yeah, triggered. Angry. Never before by anything else here. Interesting phenomenon.

[OGEmoji]

6 hours ago, laPapessaGiovanna said:

I don't know what 19th century treaty you are referring at, modern psychology doesn't support your opinion.

WTF am I reading? Addiction IS a diagnosis, Substance Use Disorder, to be precise. And you know that you can be addicted to legal substances (like alcohol) right? Or to legal behaviours such as gambling, right?

BTW try looking for paedophilia in the DSM, try.

ETA http://jaapl.org/content/42/4/404 you may find this helpful, you don't need to correspond to the diagnostic criteria for paedophilia to be a child molester. ETA2 viceversa you may fit the definition without having ever molested a child.

Ok but the argument for these kids in this article was that they used drugs  due to their depression, which was made worse by their treatment (because many were already using at the time of admission to the school). So which is it- Is the drug use a symptom of their depression or a new, different mental illness? Did the school stick the needle in their veins or didthe mental illness? 

And you're right, once they start using and it turns into abuse it is technically a dsm diagnoses, but they didn't have the disorder until after they used heavily and altered their brain's chemical makeup. A person who has never taken an opioid (an intentional act done by a person) will never have a diagnoses of opioid use disorder.

And anyone who argues that a person who is a murder or rapist isn't mentally ill had a lot of studying to do. Mentally healthy people do not intentionally harm others, and to argue otherwise is illogical.

5 hours ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

I am writing this as someone who has a lot more experience than anyone should have about schools like this....so I know a little more than you, despite not having your vast wisdom gleaned from reading an article.

Fuck you.

I just deleted a shit load of stuff that I shouldn't post here, but I can't remember the last time I felt so personally triggered and beyond angry by a thread on FJ.  

How dare you speak to things you don't understand?  How dare you pretend to know how people who had troubles (some mental illnesses, some not) react to being stripped of control and put in a torturous situation when they are most vulnerable feel?

You have no idea what you're talking about and you need to stop.

I don't pretend to know what ahppened at the school, how can sny of us who weren't there in person know? I'm going on what the reporter shared with us in the article, and how it was written, instead of letting emotion color what was acutally written.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

4 minutes ago, OGEmoji said:

I don't pretend to know what ahppened at the school, how can sny of us who weren't there in person know?

Because many of these schools use very similar blueprints...I know.  I know more about what those kids went through than you ever will if you dedicate the rest of your life to researching it.

And I know the ramifications 30 years later for those who survived...and those who didn't.

There are very brave people on this thread who have shared their own struggles, like @AliceInFundyland to name one, but I'm not that brave.  I'm 30+ years out of a place like that and I still don't have the courage to lay it out there for people like you to twist for your own purposes.

In most cases I think you have to care about someone, or at least respect them, for their opinions to hurt you.  I give zero fucks what strangers think of me in the grande scheme of things...but some things are so personal and so painful even ignorant strangers who have demonstrated time and again that they lack the capacity to understand the situation can cause pain.

Since you seem to think you are so well versed in psychological issues tell me:  What psychological pay off are you getting by trolling a serious thread and invalidating time and again the genuine trauma and pain of others...those posting and those lurking?  What is in this for you?  

[formergothardite]

7 hours ago, OGEmoji said:

Their illness manifests differently, but my point was why do we accept that their actions were their own, 

So in your mind a person who is in the depths of depression, whose mind is so lost they think that killing themselves is not only their only option, but the best option for their family, is no different than someone who sees a woman walking alone and decides to rape her even though he knows his actions are wrong? You are saying that both are making a choice even though the people on this thread, including me, have explained that when you get to the suicidal point you are many times past the point of choice making? But that is your stance? 

And IMO, people like Andrea Yates, who was not capable of making rational choices and was psychotic shouldn't be blamed for her actions. Her husband who knew she was a danger to herself and her children and decided to ignore doctors and leave her along with their children should be held responsible. He made a choice to leave a woman who was not capable of making rational decisions alone with children. 

[Georgiana]

41 minutes ago, OGEmoji said:

Ok but the argument for these kids in this article was that they used drugs  due to their depression, which was made worse by their treatment (because many were already using at the time of admission to the school). So which is it- Is the drug use a symptom of their depression or a new, different mental illness? Did the school stick the needle in their veins or didthe mental illness? 

And you're right, once they start using and it turns into abuse it is technically a dsm diagnoses, but they didn't have the disorder until after they used heavily and altered their brain's chemical makeup. A person who has never taken an opioid (an intentional act done by a person) will never have a diagnoses of opioid use disorder.

And anyone who argues that a person who is a murder or rapist isn't mentally ill had a lot of studying to do. Mentally healthy people do not intentionally harm others, and to argue otherwise is illogical.

I don't pretend to know what ahppened at the school, how can sny of us who weren't there in person know? I'm going on what the reporter shared with us in the article, and how it was written, instead of letting emotion color what was acutally written.

What about someone who begins using on the orders of a doctor?  Are you aware how many addictions actually begin as legitimate, prescribed use?  What about someone who is struggling with mental illness, undergoes treatment for a separate medical issue, takes painkillers as prescribed....and through that use finds a blessed escape from their suffering that they then find themselves unable to give up when their prescription runs out.

Do yourself a favor and look up how many drug addictions begin NOT with recreational use but with doctor's orders.  

Also, "heavily altered their brain's chemical makeup"?  Do you....know how DIFFICULT that is to do, especially with regards to the aspects of the brain generally impacted by common mental illness (which are largely distinct from the addiction and reward pathways)?  Heck, if we could do that, we could "fix" people by heavily altering their brain's chemical makeup the OTHER way with a few shots or pills!  It would be a GODSEND.  No, once the influence of a substance is removed, the brain will rather quickly return itself to what it considers it's "normal".  It often takes prolonged, sustained exposure OR a damaging spike to permanently change the brain in a way the brain will not eventually "recover" from.  

I did argue that most murderers and rapists are not mentally ill.  I cited sources to back up my position.  You say I have a lot of studying to do, but I have done it, and I find NOTHING to support your position.  IF YOU ARE GOING TO MAKE THIS CLAIM, YOU NEED TO START CITING YOUR SOURCES.  Because I VERY strongly do not believe such sources exist, and how can I study something that does not exist?  

You are talking out your ass about things you do not understand even slightly.  Before responding, do reading, cite sources, and come back here with the backing of an opinion OTHER than your own.  Because your opinion on this matter is clearly uneducated, inaccurate, and quite frankly so without any sort of value that no one should waste their time considering it on it's own.