Seewalds 33: Schroedinger’s Uterus

[FJismyheadship]

I came here to post about the Dr. Seuss book, but I see @singsingsing has beat me to it :-) it's a cute photo!

[viii]

A lot of non-religious people have issues with boys playing with toys that have been deemed 'girly'. It's a shame. Growing up, I had a neighbor boy that was my age, and we played barbies together until we were 10 or so. Of course, he lied to his parents about what we were doing, because that would have been really frowned upon. 

[Knight of Ni]

For Jessa, the focus of the posts are on here boys. For Jill the focus is on Derik. Or her. It’s like Derick wants credit for something he’s supposed to do. “I’m an awesome father. I interact with my boys.” Ben seems to play with his boys because he loves them. Derick attempts to interact with his boys because he’s supposed to. 

[singsingsing]

1 minute ago, Knight of Ni said:

For Jessa, the focus of the posts are on here boys. For Jill the focus is on Derik. Or her. It’s like Derick wants credit for something he’s supposed to do. “I’m an awesome father. I interact with my boys.” Ben seems to play with his boys because he loves them. Derick attempts to interact with his boys because he’s supposed to. 

And it's really off-putting with Jill. I think most of us would agree that Ben comes across as a pleasanter and more appealing person than Derick, but if Jessa were constantly posting weird crap praising Ben to high heaven for throwing together a quick dinner and lighting a candle, or 'babysitting' the kids, or buying them ice cream, it would be just as obnoxious. Imagine if every other post from Jessa was some creepy poorly lit picture of Ben leering at the camera with a caption like, "Ben was sweet enough to take the clothes out of the dryer while I gave the kids their baths! Thank you sooo much, babe! You're amazing! #besthubbyever!!"

[Eternalbluepearl]

23 minutes ago, singsingsing said:

 Imagine if every other post from Jessa was some creepy poorly lit picture of Ben leering at the camera with a caption like, "Ben was sweet enough to take the clothes out of the dryer while I gave the kids their baths! Thank you sooo much, babe! You're amazing! #besthubbyever!!"

I'm still laughing about Derick buying Jill chocolate milk. #besthubbyontheplanet!

They strike me as two people who would meet freshman year in college and be hippies together. They would be really into each other as they had never experienced this kind of relationship before. They would both have long hair and go to concerts together. They would not have kids but maybe a dog together eventually. Sorry, I'm rambling. It's like they are trying to combine quiverfull conservative fundy with college hippie slacker. It's a weird combo that doesn't quite fit. I think it's part of why they seem so awkward. 

[CaricatureQualities]

12 hours ago, PainfullyAware said:

Just to give some hope I was raised in the United Church of Canada (like a Methodist/Presbyterian amalgamation) and was shocked as a teenager to hear things like "christians are anti-lgbt". I genuinely didn't think more than a few extreme denominations were, because my experience was the opposite. Our minister married his partner and only a handful of pearl clutchers muttered about it. So, it's possible!

Jessa and Ben seem to have a sense of humour, and be willing to act a little goofy. Jessa is willing to laugh at herself in the side interviews on the show. It's so different from Jill and Derick. Apart from extremely corny jokes that they smile at, those two never really laugh out loud. It says a lot about their personalities and why Jill has trouble on social media. Good posts are often funny and/or cute- they also help someone seem authentic.

I have been a bridesmaid in 3 weddings and 2 of them were officiated by lesbien ministers (United and Anglican). There are 3 churches in my town, United, Anglican, Presbyterian and all of them have had women leaders over the years, a lot of them gay. In Canada there are a lot of denominations that really embrace (and are more and more being lead by) the gay community. Openly gay religious officials have become the norm to a lot of people in my part of the world. They do a fine job, for what it's worth. 

3 hours ago, melon said:

I don't see anything wrong with boys playing with dolls.I used to get catalogs,my father called them "wish books",but they had dolls that were anatomic.I thought there was nothing wrong with those,either...could possibly help learn about differences,especially in a family,like mine..I didn't have any girls,just boys.

Well,my grandmother said those were "embarassing",and that male children should not play with girl dolls.She told me how when she had my father,in 1931,her mother in law bought him  Raggedy Ann and Andy dolls.My grandfather said his son would never play with girl dolls.My grandmother gave the Raggedy Ann away.I didn't see what the big deal was,and I still don't see what the big deal was.

My cousin wanted a barbie doll when he was little because his female cousins (me) that he played with often had them. We got him one. I think his dad didn't like it but didn't put a stop to it. What was the big deal, I was allowed to get "boy" toys. He liked the barbie doll, but not as much as his trucks and stuff, and he grew out of it. He's a rugged fisherman/farmer type, he's hetero and manly. But he desired to have a doll when he was young, he played with it and he enjoyed it. He also enjoyed it when when once in a while when we were little I'd dress him up in a dress. It was fun. It was make-believe. It was dress up. Kids should be kids. I'm glad we were able to play without nonsense restrictions being imposed on us when we were children.

[viii]

My sister and her wife are raising their twins without gender enforced roles (they've got a boy and girl). They let them wear whatever colour they want, and he's often in pink. They both have "babies", and he's by far gentler with his than she is with hers, lolllll. 

[Carm_88]

Jill and Derick seem clueless to how annoying they are. I think that Ben and Jessa realized how off putting they were and changed it. Jill's constant open mouthed pose always strikes me as "Look at me!" No Jill, your boys are cute, I want to look at them. Derick, nothing can make Derick look good. He's too horrible. 

[singsingsing]

13 minutes ago, Carm_88 said:

Jill and Derick seem clueless to how annoying they are. I think that Ben and Jessa realized how off putting they were and changed it. Jill's constant open mouthed pose always strikes me as "Look at me!" No Jill, your boys are cute, I want to look at them. Derick, nothing can make Derick look good. He's too horrible. 

I also think that Ben and Jessa are happier than Jill and Derick. They seem to enjoy parenthood a lot more. So they're not focusing so much on political fights - they're spending most of their time and energy on enjoying their family life, and that comes across. (Note, this is entirely based on my impression - it's totally possible that Jessa and Ben are secretly miserable and are way more outspoken/extreme about stuff behind the scenes than are Jill and Derick).

[BernRul]

I love to see Henry with the Dr. Suess book. Aside from being "wordly," it's also imaginative (something fundies sorely lack) and is great for young kids developing phonemic awareness.

Boy toys versus girl toys is a topic that adults care way more about than kids. The kids I work with have preferences but will typically play with both. I see plenty of little boys who love playing kitchen, house, or dolls. The next moment they'll run off playing superheroes and cars. It's just part of being a well rounded child,  genitals don't have anything to do with it. 

[Nargus]

[Bad Wolf]

My DIL has made a point of telling grand wolf 2 that there are no boy toys or girl toys, only toys. His other grandma told him she had a jacket for him that had belonged to his girl cousin, but it was ok, because it wasn't a girl color. He looked at her and told her that there were no boy colors or girl colors, only colors. He had a proud mama.

[sndral]

7 hours ago, singsingsing said:

I also think that Ben and Jessa are happier than Jill and Derick. They seem to enjoy parenthood a lot more. So they're not focusing so much on political fights - they're spending most of their time and energy on enjoying their family life, and that comes across. (Note, this is entirely based on my impression - it's totally possible that Jessa and Ben are secretly miserable and are way more outspoken/extreme about stuff behind the scenes than are Jill and Derick).

Benessa are far less frantic than Jill/Derick at this point. Neither couple is gainfully employed but Benessa are still protected by the TLC umbrella whereas Jill/Derick are out in the rain of real life w/out all that TLC money. 

More significantly, I suspect, is their cult’s demand that they have huge litters of children. Indeed, to them each child is a ‘blessing’ and Benessa are being blessed w/ no reason to believe they won’t continue to be ‘blessed’ with children, which in their world means Jesus must be happy w/ them. Jill/Derick have had 2 crisis deliveries and their baby train may stop a whole lot sooner than they planned, they must wonder why Jesus isn’t as happy with them as he is w/ Benessa. So Jill/Derick must try harder to show Jesus & the world that they are deserving.

[Joyfully_Unavailable]

7 hours ago, singsingsing said:

I also think that Ben and Jessa are happier than Jill and Derick. They seem to enjoy parenthood a lot more. So they're not focusing so much on political fights - they're spending most of their time and energy on enjoying their family life, and that comes across. (Note, this is entirely based on my impression - it's totally possible that Jessa and Ben are secretly miserable and are way more outspoken/extreme about stuff behind the scenes than are Jill and Derick).

It’s true that social media doesn’t always represent reality, but I think you’re probably right. IIRC Jessa is one of the only sisters I can recall saying that her marriage was work rather than that overly sweet rhetoric Michelle has been peddling their whole lives. I think it really shows when Jessa and Ben interact that there’s a level of trust and respect they’ve built already where she doesn’t need to praise him for every little thing he does just to incentivize him to do it or to make herself a doting wife and mother. It seems with Jill she’s constantly trying to find ways to connect to Derick and because she keeps trying to adore him into respecting her, it comes off as completely disingenuous.

[Pecansforeveryone]

12 minutes ago, sndral said:

Benessa are far less frantic than Jill/Derick at this point. Neither couple is gainfully employed but Benessa are still protected by the TLC umbrella whereas Jill/Derick are out in the rain of real life w/out all that TLC money. 

More significantly, I suspect, is their cult’s demand that they have huge litters of children. Indeed, to them each child is a ‘blessing’ and Benessa are being blessed w/ no reason to believe they won’t continue to be ‘blessed’ with children, which in their world means Jesus must be happy w/ them. Jill/Derick have had 2 crisis deliveries and their baby train may stop a whole lot sooner than they planned, they must wonder why Jesus isn’t as happy with them as he is w/ Benessa. So Jill/Derick must try harder to show Jesus & the world that they are deserving.

I think there some relatively positive things about Ben and Jessa sure. Now I will take a deep breath and point out an issue I have with them. They are profiting financially from the show, from to some extent selling parts of their children's childhood on tv. They are to some extent promoting Quiverful, a potentially impoverishing lifestyle while living in relative ease and comfort from the profits of "heathens" Hollywood. Yes, I know he does some work for Jim Bob. I dont have to give him a gold star for that.  Sorry for the rant. Even "nice" fundies rub me wrong when they put children on tv. 

[Timetraveler]

I don't know if Jessa is happier than Jill (it would make sense though, imagine having Derick for a husband). I do think she is a lot brighter/smarter and is far better at managing her social media. Jessa and Ben are also better looking, something very superficial, but that also 'helps' in this day and age. Plus they have two super cute and happy boys.

[WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?]

4 hours ago, Bad Wolf said:

My DIL has made a point of telling grand wolf 2 that there are no boy toys or girl toys, only toys. His other grandma told him she had a jacket for him that had belonged to his girl cousin, but it was ok, because it wasn't a girl color. He looked at her and told her that there were no boy colors or girl colors, only colors. He had a proud mama.

I'd bet you were/are pretty proud of Grandwolf 2 also! Your story did happen to remind me of a little song. 

Spoiler

My Big Sister

by Barenaked Ladies 

I like my big sister
But I don't wanna wear her coat
Maybe black, it may fit perfect
But you and I both know, it's a girls coat

Now I can handle some hand me downs
Shirts and sandals are out of bounds
Balls and games and such, I don't mind
But a coat, over the line

I like your DIL and grandson's way better. 

[Natalie22]

24 minutes ago, Timetraveler said:

I don't know if Jessa is happier than Jill (it would make sense though, imagine having Derick for a husband). I do think she is a lot brighter/smarter and is far better at managing her social media. Jessa and Ben are also better looking, something very superficial, but that also 'helps' in this day and age. Plus they have two super cute and happy boys.

I wonder if what many people assume (that Jessa is smarter than Jill) is true, or if Jill because of her temperment has been more successfully in doing what she was told: dumbing herself down.  Jill is the only one so far of any of her siblings (male or female) to try college courses and find a career that requires training and certification.  She also worked to learn spanish and I believe was the one in charge of the family accounting before she got married.  I don't think she's a genius, but it shows she at least can attempt to push herself outside her comfort zone and learn new things.  Jill may be terrible by our standards at all these things, but she's still probably one of the most knowledgeable of all the Duggar kids.

[Carm_88]

8 hours ago, Natalie22 said:

I wonder if what many people assume (that Jessa is smarter than Jill) is true, or if Jill because of her temperment has been more successfully in doing what she was told: dumbing herself down.  Jill is the only one so far of any of her siblings (male or female) to try college courses and find a career that requires training and certification.  She also worked to learn spanish and I believe was the one in charge of the family accounting before she got married.  I don't think she's a genius, but it shows she at least can attempt to push herself outside her comfort zone and learn new things.  Jill may be terrible by our standards at all these things, but she's still probably one of the most knowledgeable of all the Duggar kids.

I think Jessa is savvy but I also think that she's very realistic. I think along the lines of Jessa and if something is out of reach, I don't spend my time dreaming about it. It would make no sense, it would only end in heartbreak. So I am not sure about intelligence levels, I do think that Jill pushed herself out of her comfort zone, but Jessa staying within it doesn't indicate being less intelligent. Just that she may have chose not to dream because she knew wife and mother was it for her. 

[Glasgowghirl]

Jessa and Ben seem more open minded than Jill and Derick, still conservative but they are at least allowing the boys to be kids and are openly sharing Henry playing with a dolls house. I'd rather see kids reading Dr Suess over the crap Jill used Izzy to promote. They are also far more relaxed than Derick and Jill. Derick especially doesn't seem to have much of a bond with Isreal and Samuel, while I'm sure he loves them, he sees them more as little people than his kids. Ben clearly adores Spurgeon and Henry and isn't afraid to show his caring side with them. If Derick wasn't so caught up with being ass on social media and spent more time having fun with his boys then maybe he wouldn't come across as bad as he does. I feel for Izzy and Sam having those two as parents.

[EyesOpen]

So I havesupported my boys playing with whatever and wear any colors, etc... which is great and fine. Except that I step on frickin hatchimals and they hurt! ... the problem is thy go to school and talk to friends about their interests and activities or one of them likes to wear purple... well the boys make fun of them or just ignore them. I feel terrible. I feel like I’m putting them out there to get picked on but literally it just didn’t occur to me to care what they played with or wore... sigh... we’ve started telling them it’s cool to do your own thing, be yourself , real friends will like you for who you are etc... idk... they’re starting to tell me ‘oh such and such is only for girls... and I hate it

[RainbowSky]

11 hours ago, EyesOpen said:

So I havesupported my boys playing with whatever and wear any colors, etc... which is great and fine. Except that I step on frickin hatchimals and they hurt! ... the problem is thy go to school and talk to friends about their interests and activities or one of them likes to wear purple... well the boys make fun of them or just ignore them. I feel terrible. I feel like I’m putting them out there to get picked on but literally it just didn’t occur to me to care what they played with or wore... sigh... we’ve started telling them it’s cool to do your own thing, be yourself , real friends will like you for who you are etc... idk... they’re starting to tell me ‘oh such and such is only for girls... and I hate it

This is me too. My boys have long hair, used to paint their nails etc. 

 

Now they both keep saying if they cut their hair people won't make fun of them. It my 10yo dug the paint off his nails while at school after excitedly painting them when he found his color that he lost on purpose when the kids gave him shit....because people gave him shit again. *sigh*

I've been trying to explain that people will find something to be asses about! Especially to my giant Ginger teen.

 

Then I read about Derick and whatever ridiculous shit he's said that day and I see where the Asshole kids get it.

[jqlgoblue]

I agree that Jessa seems very realistic. Jessa is very assured of herself and I think sure in her relationship b/c she found a guy who was basically obsessed with her... a tried and true tactic for a secure marriage used by realistic women across the world, actually. 

Jill is not realistic or self-assured at all (and likely co-dependent, which stems from insecurity). The same is true for Derick and I think he likely blames Jill for a lot of his unease/unhappiness... I feel like Jill is grasping at straws(e.g her new look, lap sitting, etc.) to show her love, make him happy, spice up life, or something. It all seems very desperate. 

[SapphireSlytherin]

23 hours ago, RainbowSky said:

Now they both keep saying if they cut their hair people won't make fun of them.

I had a girl, not a boy—but to me hair was ALWAYS a non-issue and she always got to make the final decision about her hair. Including length, color, and style. Because my mother kept me in a pixie forfuckingever, I vowed never to make my kid(s) be the victim of taunts and ridicule due to MY actions. 

If your boys want their hair cut, why would you not allow it? Not casting stones or questioning your parenting but wondering why they don’t have a say. 

[RainbowSky]

17 minutes ago, SapphireSlytherin said:

I had a girl, not a boy—but to me hair was ALWAYS a non-issue and she always got to make the final decision about her hair. Including length, color, and style. Because my mother kept me in a pixie forfuckingever, I vowed never to make my kid(s) be the victim of taunts and ridicule due to MY actions. 

If your boys want their hair cut, why would you not allow it? Not casting stones or questioning your parenting but wondering why they don’t have a say. 

I didn't say that they don't like their hair?