Seewalds 33: Schroedinger’s Uterus

[singsingsing]

2 minutes ago, Carm_88 said:

I think Jessa and Ben are enjoying their two boys. That being said, I wouldn't be shocked if there was announcement sometime soon. Then again, I'm getting used to there being nothing. We will see I guess! 

I was stuck at home all yesterday waiting on a delivery, and I decided that I didn't have nearly enough to regret on my death bed, so I made a list of predictions for all the current Duggar couples' future offspring - when they will be born, their jinder, and their names. I have Jessa due to deliver a baby girl named Piper Grace on May 14th, 2019.  (In my mind they're currently trying to delay pregnancy because they actually want to adopt. I've got them attempting this for a while and having a couple of 'oops' pregnancies and then just giving up and continuing to have babies closer together until they wind up with 12 kids in total. I can't wait to find out how wrong I am!)

[AtlanticTug]

1 hour ago, VelociRapture said:

Yeah. It’s easy to say that when you’re childless newlyweds, but the reality of having a child can be very eye opening. It wouldn’t surprise me at all if JoStin or JoKen had large quivers though. Both couples strike me as being fairly comfortable with the lifestyle. I do hope I’m wrong though, simply because their children deserve better than their parents (or at least Joy and Joseph) for growing up and for the sake of Joy and Kendra’s health.

Joy had a 10+ lb baby via c-section as her first. Not too different from Jill. Another one like that will seal the deal on an unlimited number of children. She has to hope she has a good spacing between the kids (VBAC rates are almost unheard of if pregnant within 6 months, low within 12 months ans decent within 18 months). But as Jill’s experience shows that in itself isn’t enough. She’ll also need to have a much much smaller baby to increase her odds. 

Kendra may not have such huge babies and is at greater risk of large family.

[singsingsing]

3 minutes ago, AtlanticTug said:

Joy had a 10+ lb baby via c-section as her first. Not too different from Jill. Another one like that will seal the deal on an unlimited number of children. She has to hope she has a good spacing between the kids (VBAC rates are almost unheard of if pregnant within 6 months, low within 12 months ans decent within 18 months). But as Jill’s experience shows that in itself isn’t enough. She’ll also need to have a much much smaller baby to increase her odds. 

Kendra may not have such huge babies and is at greater risk of large family.

During my fun-filled day of delivery-waiting and list-making yesterday, I predicted that Jill would wind up with six kids total, all boys, and be forced to stop after some kind of fertility-ending crisis. I predicted that Joy would follow in her sister-mom's footsteps and have eight kids (four girls and four boys) and be forced to stop after some kind of fertility-ending crisis, but her last delivery will be twins. Jessa, bless her, will never achieve her dream of having twins.

[viii]

Yes, Joy's chances of having a gigantic family is ruled out now. I do think she'll have at least 5 kids, though. 

I still think Jessa will have a pregnancy announcement before the end of 2018, even if she is enjoying her two boys. 

[QuiverDance]

I gave my daughter a beautiful victorian dollhouse for her fifth birthday, and my son played with it more than she ever did.  He loved to stage scenes with his little super hero "guys" in the dollhouse.  So cute. 

[singsingsing]

It's still possible that Joy will be able to have a successful VBAC and go on to have 19 kids (Michelle did), but I agree that it's much less likely now. 

[Carm_88]

The Duggar girls seem to have massive babies, which Michelle didn't. It's going to make not having a c-section and getting to 19 harder. 

[NotQuiteMotY]

6 hours ago, singsingsing said:

Old Navy should hire Jessa, because her Insta posts inspired me to go look at their dresses and I bought a few. Including a swing dress! I did not buy it in the tall length, though. Sorry, Jessa. Nike!

It gets into your brain, doesn't it? I was thinking the other day that maybe I should look at Old Navy for a new dress or two, because that one on her instagram was so pretty...

They really are taking over, just not the way they think.

[potato]

8 hours ago, singsingsing said:

Old Navy should hire Jessa, because her Insta posts inspired me to go look at their dresses and I bought a few. Including a swing dress! I did not buy it in the tall length, though. Sorry, Jessa. Nike!

I wore not one but two Old Navy swing dresses this weekend, one of which Jessa definitely owns.  They're pretty versatile and I like how they look on me.  I went to Old Navy again yesterday, but bought some shorts instead since they were 50% off.  Sorry, Jessa!

[Pretzel]

What happened to Joy that she won't have a full quiver? I must have missed that. Too many fundies to follow...

[AprilQuilt]

6 hours ago, VelociRapture said:

Yeah. It’s easy to say that when you’re childless newlyweds, but the reality of having a child can be very eye opening. It wouldn’t surprise me at all if JoStin or JoKen had large quivers though. Both couples strike me as being fairly comfortable with the lifestyle. I do hope I’m wrong though, simply because their children deserve better than their parents (or at least Joy and Joseph) for growing up and for the sake of Joy and Kendra’s health.

I agree. JoStin and JoKen are happily marinaded, and currently enthusiastic about having huge families. I'm quite interested to see how JoStin go on post-C-section - if they'll find a way to reconcile themselves with spacing their blessings, or if they'll decide to leave it up to God. And whether their outcome will be markedly different to the Dillards'.

I think there'll probably be as many different solutions as there are kidults, but I can imagine a lot of them having largeish families stopping short of full Kid Farm. It must be blissful to share a home - and control, autonomy, food, space, shoes etc - with so few people after growing up in the TTH, but they'll still maybe conceptualise a 'proper' family as a big one.

[VelociRapture]

5 hours ago, AtlanticTug said:

Joy had a 10+ lb baby via c-section as her first. Not too different from Jill. Another one like that will seal the deal on an unlimited number of children. She has to hope she has a good spacing between the kids (VBAC rates are almost unheard of if pregnant within 6 months, low within 12 months ans decent within 18 months). But as Jill’s experience shows that in itself isn’t enough. She’ll also need to have a much much smaller baby to increase her odds. 

Kendra may not have such huge babies and is at greater risk of large family.

Giving birth isn’t the only way to build a family though. I don’t think any of them will actually adopt, but it’s a possibility that can’t be ruled out entirely. 

 

10 minutes ago, AprilQuilt said:

I agree. JoStin and JoKen are happily marinaded, and currently enthusiastic about having huge families. I'm quite interested to see how JoStin go on post-C-section - if they'll find a way to reconcile themselves with spacing their blessings, or if they'll decide to leave it up to God. And whether their outcome will be markedly different to the Dillards'.

I think there'll probably be as many different solutions as there are kidults, but I can imagine a lot of them having largeish families stopping short of full Kid Farm. It must be blissful to share a home - and control, autonomy, food, space, shoes etc - with so few people after growing up in the TTH, but they'll still maybe conceptualise a 'proper' family as a big one.

I’m interested in seeing how they proceed as well. I think it’s pretty clear at this point that Jill won’t be having a large quiver of biological children. They may try anyways, but I honestly hope they don’t for Jill’s sake. 

Joy is interesting to me because she’s the only sister so far to marry someone raised with IBLP. It’ll be interesting to see if she follows a similar pattern to Jessa and/or Jill or if she’ll keep popping them out the way Erin Paine and Alyssa Webster (who both married men raised in IBLP) have thus far. 

[Clairice]

Jessa and Ben seem the logical link to have huge families. both their boys were born naturally even though they were a good weight. I'm suprised that they haven't announced a new pregnancy yet, but good on them.

I love the photo of the boys on the swing, those chubby little feet squished into the sandals make my ovaries groan!

[HermioneSparrow]

I honestly hope they all have gigantic babies and more emergency c-sections, hopefully that'll put a stop to being quiverfull.

[VineHeart137]

2 hours ago, Pretzel said:

What happened to Joy that she won't have a full quiver? I must have missed that. Too many fundies to follow...

Joy's pregnancy ended with a c-section. If, like Jill, her next birth is another c-section, the chances of her quiver getting into the double digits are pretty much nil (unless they go the adoption route like @VelociRapture pointed out). However, as @singsingsing said, it's definitely possible for Joy to have a successful VBAC next time, in which case she could easily go on to have just as many kids as Michelle (who had Jana and JD via c-section). So it's all a toss-up at this point.

[feministxtian]

1 hour ago, VineHeart137 said:

Joy's pregnancy ended with a c-section. If, like Jill, her next birth is another c-section, the chances of her quiver getting into the double digits are pretty much nil (unless they go the adoption route like @VelociRapture pointed out). However, as @singsingsing said, it's definitely possible for Joy to have a successful VBAC next time, in which case she could easily go on to have just as many kids as Michelle (who had Jana and JD via c-section). So it's all a toss-up at this point.

But, having LGA babies opens up the possibility of undiagnosed gestational diabetes...these idiots refuse any mainstream prenatal care. They're going to keep going until there's a tragedy. Even then they probably won't learn. 

[PainfullyAware]

I'm fairly sure contraceptive free child spacing will be used by at least half the married couples. Wasn't Michelle tracking her fertile window and using ovulation tests? That's the opposite of leaving it up to God.

Only doing it when the mood strikes (when you have little kids and are always tired) will probably be effective as a method for getting a few extra months between pregnancies compared to fertility tracking.

In a study only 45% of parents had sex as often as once a week. Even then it's easy to miss the 48 hr window for ovulation, or even 5 day window for sperm survival, if you have sex every 7 days! (Yep, bored enough to look that up lol).

[acheronbeach]

6 hours ago, Clairice said:

Jessa and Ben seem the logical link to have huge families. both their boys were born naturally even though they were a good weight. I'm suprised that they haven't announced a new pregnancy yet, but good on them.

I love the photo of the boys on the swing, those chubby little feet squished into the sandals make my ovaries groan!

I'm surprised too.  Out of all the grown Duggarlings, the Seewalds come across as the most natural and contented parents.  Then again... maybe they're more focused on raising the two cuties they already have?  I actually found both their kids odd looking as babies, but Spurge and Henry are both beautiful, happy-looking children.  They're a horrible and striking contrast to Israel Dillard, who always looks vaguely sad and nervous.  

[Joyfully_Unavailable]

The Duggars’ lack of prenatal care is likely going to be their downfall. Look at the Bates: Erin miscarries and sees a doctor then 3 healthy babies back to back, Michael is seeing a doctor to salvage as much of her fertility as possible and find solutions, and Alyssa has had 3 healthy babies with fairly uncomplicated births. The Duggars have continued to show that they think they know what’s best for them and their pregnancies, yet in the end have to be bailed out by medical professionals in pretty dramatic circumstances. 

[Pretzel]

6 hours ago, VineHeart137 said:

Joy's pregnancy ended with a c-section. If, like Jill, her next birth is another c-section, the chances of her quiver getting into the double digits are pretty much nil (unless they go the adoption route like @VelociRapture pointed out). However, as @singsingsing said, it's definitely possible for Joy to have a successful VBAC next time, in which case she could easily go on to have just as many kids as Michelle (who had Jana and JD via c-section). So it's all a toss-up at this point.

Thank you. I knew about the C-sec, but thought I had missed some additional crucial drama why Joy can't have a large quiver. Now, what you're saying makes a lot of sense. Thanks.

[kiwi]

39 minutes ago, Joyfully_Unavailable said:

The Duggars’ lack of prenatal care is likely going to be their downfall. Look at the Bates: Erin miscarries and sees a doctor then 3 healthy babies back to back, Michael is seeing a doctor to salvage as much of her fertility as possible and find solutions, and Alyssa has had 3 healthy babies with fairly uncomplicated births. The Duggars have continued to show that they think they know what’s best for them and their pregnancies, yet in the end have to be bailed out by medical professionals in pretty dramatic circumstances. 

Its hard to believe that they don’t take extra care when babies (and weddings) are a big money maker for the family. Better care of these unusually placed csection babies - look at Whitney Bates - Kaci Lynn was found to be breech and they scheduled the inversion, along with the birth - a couple of weeks ahead of schedule. Jill and Joy’s first births could have been completely different with appropriate care. 

Would it be lack of insurance? Michelle had adequate medical care. Home births are obviously fundie, but lack of medical care is asking for trouble - would child protective services not be interested?

(Disclaimer: I don’t know much about the medical care in the US apart from its user pays - is that right?)

Here in New Zealand you see your midwife (or obgyn depending on your risk factors) every four weeks until 28 weeks, then fortnightly until 34 weeks and weekly there after. Scans are normal at 6-8 weeks (dating), 12 weeks (dating/risk factor - chromosomal), 20-24 weeks (placement/gender/sizing), then 30-34 weeks to check placement of baby and growth, depending on who you see for your care you could have scans weekly from 36 weeks if they have concerns. Otherwise someone may scan you when your in labour if they need to clarify the position of the baby. 

[melon]

Michelle had 4 C sections.Jana and John David,emergency C section.Quite a few VBACs.Then maybe Jackson,C section? Johannah VBAC,Jennifer,too? Jordyn and Josie both C sections,Josie an emergency C section.

[singsingsing]

39 minutes ago, melon said:

Michelle had 4 C sections.Jana and John David,emergency C section.Quite a few VBACs.Then maybe Jackson,C section? Johannah VBAC,Jennifer,too? Jordyn and Josie both C sections,Josie an emergency C section.

I think you're right - Michelle had a C-section with Jana and JD due to pre-eclampsia. Then all VBACs until Jackson, I think, and then VBACs again until Jordyn and Josie.

But one key difference is that Michelle was, as far as we know, getting decent prenatal care from actual medical professionals, rather than "midwives" who got their "licences" from the cracker jack box. It's entirely possible that Jill and Joy would've wound up with huge babies and C-sections even if they had the best prenatal care in the world. But they're definitely not helping their odds of having successful VBACs by continuing to go this route. It seems like it's lost on them that their mother was maybe able to have so many back to back pregnancies and successful deliveries because she got actual prenatal care, and that Jessa and Anna are just lucky.

[Carm_88]

Wouldn't it be easier to have said VBAC in a hospital where professionals can monitor you? It would make sense to have prenatal care as well; the Duggars just don't make sense! 

[TeaELSee]

18 hours ago, VelociRapture said:

Joy is interesting to me because she’s the only sister so far to marry someone raised with IBLP. It’ll be interesting to see if she follows a similar pattern to Jessa and/or Jill or if she’ll keep popping them out the way Erin Paine and Alyssa Webster (who both married men raised in IBLP) have thus far.

So Austin’s family follows the same religion, however he only has 1 sibling.  Did his parents join late in life or has anyone given an explanation why they have a quiver shortage?