Seewalds 33: Schroedinger’s Uterus

[AnnEggBlandHer?]

2 minutes ago, momofsquid said:

I'm only aware of one acquaintance who had a home birth. Her oldest daughter was on the same gymnastics team as my youngest and Mom was pregnant with #3. One Sunday morning she showed up at the gym with #3 asleep in a carrier. Of course everyone squealed and asked when the baby was born. She looked at her watch and answered, "About seven hours ago." Mom looked fresh as a daisy. She's a pro, that one

That’s impressive. I was so thankful for the maternity nurses at the hospital when I delivered, they took such wonderful, compassionate care of me and my son for the 2 days we were there. That being said, I gave birth at 3:30 in the afternoon and was set to be discharged two days later, and made sure the nurses knew I wanted to be the first one out that day. They managed to have us walking to the car by 10:30 AM and I was grateful to be back in my own home. I can definitely see the appeal of homebirth and wanting one be comfortably in one’s own bed. 

[Chewing Gum]

Ok so now with all the tearing experiences described, I think it’s good to know a few things on how to avoid them as much as possible, for our pregnant ladies and folks that would want to replace their uterus out of their stomachs:

- when the pushing phase is going slow, move to a vertical position so gravity can help. If you are pushing too long the tissue gets swollen wich increases your chances of tearing.

- when the pushing phase is going too fast (usually this is when the tearing happens more easily), move to a horizontal position. On your side is better than being on your back because it increases your pelvic room up to 30%. 

- an on all fours position is usually the best position to give birth, as you can move your pelvic more easily and as stated above, and a BIG plus is the midwife/GYN can use heated pads to warm up the tissue of the perineum, which increases bloodflow, which minimalizes your risk to tear. 

- waterbirths do this automatically, warm up tissue, PLUS you can move around freely, choose the position in which you want to give birth, plus no one can cut you without permission :).  

[Iamtheway]

16 hours ago, Nargus said:

I only want an episiotomy if it can prevent me from having a full on 4th degree tear.  I read a birth story once where the author described it as her 'vaganus' and I'd really like to avoid that if possible.

As I understand it that is the only time they do them here. And I saw on the rates from 2005 that Sweden had the lowest rate in the world then. Most births here are in hospital with a midwife. You only see a doctor if something goes wrong. 

I had Miniway in 2014 and despite his humongus head I only had a small tear that needed three stitches. It healed without complications. I have more lasting damage from when I fell in the shower and landed on a toy. That was two stitches but it also broke my tailbone. It still hurts now, more then a year later. So big baby out better than plastic water can in. 

[SilverBeach]

FWIW, I gave birth in a hospital 33 years ago, no episiotomy. I remember it all.

[VelociRapture]

12 hours ago, AnnEggBlandHer? said:

That’s impressive. I was so thankful for the maternity nurses at the hospital when I delivered, they took such wonderful, compassionate care of me and my son for the 2 days we were there. That being said, I gave birth at 3:30 in the afternoon and was set to be discharged two days later, and made sure the nurses knew I wanted to be the first one out that day. They managed to have us walking to the car by 10:30 AM and I was grateful to be back in my own home. I can definitely see the appeal of homebirth and wanting one be comfortably in one’s own bed. 

I was almost in tears about having to leave, but that was because my baby was staying behind in NICU. I actually did start crying when we went to say goodbye to her after I was discharged. We went back to visit that same night and every single day until she came home, but it wasn’t the same as being one floor away from her at all times. Leaving the hospital without her was the worst and most unnatural feeling I’ve ever experienced.

 

6 hours ago, Chewing Gum said:

Ok so now with all the tearing experiences described, I think it’s good to know a few things on how to avoid them as much as possible, for our pregnant ladies and folks that would want to replace their uterus out of their stomachs:

- when the pushing phase is going slow, move to a vertical position so gravity can help. If you are pushing too long the tissue gets swollen wich increases your chances of tearing.

- when the pushing phase is going too fast (usually this is when the tearing happens more easily), move to a horizontal position. On your side is better than being on your back because it increases your pelvic room up to 30%. 

- an on all fours position is usually the best position to give birth, as you can move your pelvic more easily and as stated above, and a BIG plus is the midwife/GYN can use heated pads to warm up the tissue of the perineum, which increases bloodflow, which minimalizes your risk to tear. 

- waterbirths do this automatically, warm up tissue, PLUS you can move around freely, choose the position in which you want to give birth, plus no one can cut you without permission :).  

Just want to point out that this is helpful if you opt not to get an epidural. If you do get one you aren’t really able to move (in my experience.) I had one and it was definitely a good choice for me, but it isn’t right for everyone. 

[Timetostoplurking]

3 babies in the 90’s, small tears with only a few stitches.   3 different Minnesota hospitals.  I would go to a hospital again for delivery, beautiful experience.  No problems .

[lumpentheologie]

8 hours ago, Chewing Gum said:

Ok so now with all the tearing experiences described, I think it’s good to know a few things on how to avoid them as much as possible, for our pregnant ladies and folks that would want to replace their uterus out of their stomachs:

- when the pushing phase is going slow, move to a vertical position so gravity can help. If you are pushing too long the tissue gets swollen wich increases your chances of tearing.

- when the pushing phase is going too fast (usually this is when the tearing happens more easily), move to a horizontal position. On your side is better than being on your back because it increases your pelvic room up to 30%. 

- an on all fours position is usually the best position to give birth, as you can move your pelvic more easily and as stated above, and a BIG plus is the midwife/GYN can use heated pads to warm up the tissue of the perineum, which increases bloodflow, which minimalizes your risk to tear. 

- waterbirths do this automatically, warm up tissue, PLUS you can move around freely, choose the position in which you want to give birth, plus no one can cut you without permission :).  

Thank you for this!  I've been so terrified after reading these stories.  We aren't even planning on trying to conceive for another year or so but I just copy/pasted this into the notes on my phone! 

[VelociRapture]

21 minutes ago, lumpentheologie said:

Thank you for this!  I've been so terrified after reading these stories.  We aren't even planning on trying to conceive for another year or so but I just copy/pasted this into the notes on my phone! 

Remember that every experience is different because every woman and every pregnancy is different. Just because some of us had less than ideal deliveries or pregnancies or postpartum experiences doesn’t mean you will too. Hopefully when the time comes you have a very straightforward and easy time.  

[Chewing Gum]

1 hour ago, VelociRapture said:

I just want to point out that this is helpful if you opt not to get an epidural. If you do get one you aren’t really able to move (in my experience.) I had one and it was definitely a good choice for me, but it isn’t right for everyone. 

You're absolutely right, if you have an epidural you cannot move around freely and are pretty much set on giving birth on your back. There are positive and negative things about an epidural and this is a neg. one. If you can move on your back in such a way that your coccyx (tailbone) is free, the baby's head can move it backwards, and create space by doing so. I tried to add a picture if that's alright.

58 minutes ago, lumpentheologie said:

Thank you for this!  I've been so terrified after reading these stories.  We aren't even planning on trying to conceive for another year or so but I just copy/pasted this into the notes on my phone! 

Now I'd like to share a bit of insight on the whole hospital versus homebirth thing, just while we're on the birth topic derailment :). Maybe that'll help someone make a more informed choice and for our have-yet-to-give-birth ladies it might make things easier if you understand them. I'm PM'ing anyway so might as well do it here. To make a good decision on whether the hospital or homebirth is the way to go for you, you need to investigate your own feelings on the subject of relaxation, as that is what you need to progress well in labour.

If you are as relaxed as possible, your oxytocine is high (=giving strong contractions) and adrenaline is low (= stress, which stalls labour).  Your endorphines (=natural pain killer hormones) are increasing if you stay in this bubble of relaxation. They get higher and higher and even though your contractions are getting stronger, so is your natural painkiller and that is why some women can birth basically painfree :). Now, if you are in an environment that gives you stress for whatever reason, your body will “stop” labour (by making adrenaline, which stops endorphines and oxytocin) so that you can get yourself to a safe environment. But by doing so (making adrenaline), contractions will be more painfull, have less effect on dilation (if at all), and you'll need pitocine etc. to move labour along. You're "failing to progress" while in fact you're just stressed by something. Worth investigation what that is and see if you can remove it (or someone ;)).

Now if you look at the way animals give birth: NONE of them go into a crowded place where there’s lots of light. Cats like a small secure dark place for instance. That is why for some woman homebirth is the best option: they are able to relax best, have people they know and trust and are in their own environment: this level of relaxation increases oxytocin and thereby contractions. Now before you think I’m all pro homebirth: I am one that cannot give birth at home. I can’t stop moving around doing stuff, get reminded about my other children, wanting to 'speed things up' so I can see them again...I can’t get into a “bubble”,  so a small hospitalroom is perfect for me to let eveything else go and get into a “bubble" of relaxation. 

Cupcakes if you got this far!

 

Spoiler

 

[apandaaries]

Damn, late to the discussion, but I love birth stories. For those with tears and/or episiotomies, try pure, raw honey directly on the wound. It was so soothing and really helped the healing process.

[Lisafer]

I birthed one at home and one in the hospital. Both ways had their advantages and disadvantages. Popped the first boy out in 6.5 hours start to finish, delivered on my knees. Tore like hell though. Frankly, I felt from the first weeks of my second pregnancy that this one was not the same as the last one, and that I wanted to be in a hospital with a doctor as opposed to a midwife. Turned out to be a good decision when Little Man came out with the cord three times around his neck, once across his chest, and got aspiration pneumonia! They are both healthy now, but I don't recommend homebirth to anybody who is not completely confident and comfortable in their decision. 

[justoneoftwo]

For those who are scared by this, just remember not all births are the same.  

I had my LO in a hospital.  The whole thing was 6 hours from first contraction to baby in arms.  I had a tear and didn't even really notice it in recovery (just that the whole area was sore).  The doctors did say they may need to use forceps because his heart rate was dropping, but as soon as they got them out of the sterile package he was born.  I did find the hospital overwhelming when giving birth (they brought a bunch of people in because of the potential forceps and it was a teaching hospital) but mostly because they were telling me all the risks and letting me chose (it was a lot of information).  Before the complications though there weren't that many people, and the nurses were fantastic.  I was more relaxed and excited because they could get me into an operating room in 30 seconds, so I felt better.  

Ended up with a wonderful little boy, no long term complications and a happy family.  I was mostly not prepared for birth because everyone told me it would take a long time and to be sure to bring DVDs or books to have something to do while in the early stages of labor. . . So just remember that everyone is different.

[karen77]

1. For me, I wanted the epidural, but also knew I'd be more relaxed at the hospital, KNOWING that if there was an issue, someone there can deal with it, vs worrying about the what ifs if something went wrong, that would stress me out more.

[candygirl200413]

So slightly related to the episiotomy and I guess just post-birth, I embarrassedly just learned a few years ago that you have post bleeding (which makes obvious physiology sense especially after birth) so was that painful for those that were injured in addition to?

[VelociRapture]

1 minute ago, candygirl200413 said:

So slightly related to the episiotomy and I guess just post-birth, I embarrassedly just learned a few years ago that you have post bleeding (which makes obvious physiology sense especially after birth) so was that painful for those that were injured in addition to?

Aw! Don’t be embarrassed! There’s a lot of stuff people who haven’t given birth don’t realize about giving birth. For instance, I didn’t realize your stomach doesn’t flatten immediately until I saw photos of Duchess Catherine following Prince George’s birth. I hadn’t really been around pregnant women prior to that and I just hadn't thought about it. It was good I saw those photos though because otherwise I would have been in for a real shock after having my daughter. 

(And I didn’t have an episiotomy, but I did have tearing. The postpartum bleeding wasn’t painful for me and wasn’t bad after the first week. After that it got lighter until it stopped somewhere around four weeks. Length of bleeding and intensity can vary, so my experience definitely isn’t going to be everyone’s experience.)

[Chewing Gum]

17 minutes ago, candygirl200413 said:

So slightly related to the episiotomy and I guess just post-birth, I embarrassedly just learned a few years ago that you have post bleeding (which makes obvious physiology sense especially after birth) so was that painful for those that were injured in addition to?

No not painfull. And I get pretty bad periods. Here, we learn to use a Spa water bottle to rinse down (is that the right word?!?!)  your vagina after peeing so that the blood doesn’t get stuck on the stitches. 

What may be uncomfortable is the afterbirth-contractions everytime you breastfeed. Because oxytocine is both the hormone for contractions and breastmilk to start flowing, you get light contractions everything you breastfeed for the first week. While it’s uncomfortable it’s also natures way of getting the uterus back from melon size to a fist in a few days. I love it :). 

7 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

Aw! Don’t be embarrassed! There’s a lot of stuff people who haven’t given birth don’t realize about giving birth. For instance, I didn’t realize your stomach doesn’t flatten immediately until I saw photos of Duchess Catherine following Prince George’s birth.

Yes this! I didn’t teach prenatal classes yet when I had my first and the first time I rolled over in bed after I had the baby was such a shock. My body rolled over and the pudding-belly followed .

[VelociRapture]

9 minutes ago, Chewing Gum said:

No not painfull. And I get pretty bad periods. Here, we learn to use a Spa water bottle to rinse down (is that the right word?!?!)  your vagina after peeing so that the blood doesn’t get stuck on the stitches. 

What may be uncomfortable is the afterbirth-contractions everytime you breastfeed. Because oxytocine is both the hormone for contractions and breastmilk to start flowing, you get light contractions everything you breastfeed for the first week. While it’s uncomfortable it’s also natures way of getting the uterus back from melon size to a fist in a few days. I love it :). 

Yes this! I didn’t teach prenatal classes yet when I had my first and the first time I rolled over in bed after I had the baby was such a shock. My body rolled over and the pudding-belly followed .

I’m in the states and my Doctors had me use the spray bottle as well. Rinse with water, gently pat dry with a little toilet paper, use some of the pain numbing spray, place a fresh pad, and finish it off with a little circle wet with witch hazel. That worked very well for me as I healed. I know women who were still feeling pain doing that stuff and found that padsicles worked really well for them. 

And I’m dying over your description of your belly! I fully expected that to be the case for me after having my daughter. Mine deflated pretty fast, but that was because I was having panic attacks and couldn’t keep anything down.* I still had a bit of a bump for a bit, but that’s gone away at this point.

*Everyone reading please note, this is not normal and was directly tied to my history of anxiety and my daughter’s NICU stay. I don’t want anyone worrying themselves thinking they’re guaranteed to experience this too. If you have a history of anxiety then I’d recommend being preemptive by speaking with a therapist before pregnancy and/or during it, but otherwise I’d suggest just being observant for signs of PPA and being gentle with yourself emotionally. Birth is a major medical event and postpartum hormones can be a real bitch for some women. It can take a while to feel like yourself again, so just try to be kind to yourself.

[StraightOuttaArkansas]

Just want to add a bit to the birth stories drift. I just gave birth 11 days ago. I was totally against having a birth plan of any kind. I did not want any expectations (and I am not really into all that natural stuff anyway). I did fill out the birth plan page in maternity notes, but mostly because I did not want to be talked to or lectured about breastfeeding/direct nursing. I had done enough research, I wanted to pump, end of story because I am big girl and I can decide what is best for my child and me (side note to that: I had a very terrible nursing experience with my first and him  losing too much weight me not producing enough that I just did not have any interest in repeating). I DID fill out the pain intervention part and VERY CLEARLY (eleventy!11!!!!) stated that I wanted pain pain medication and was fairly certain I would want an epidural again as I had one with my first and I know my pain tolerance is very very low. I was open to going for a bit without and working my way up and would have been happy to find out I was going to want one, but i was prepared. I let every consultant I had know this information. I told every midwife who saw me. Well I was induced and and guess what I end up with with? The rudest most natural wanting midwife ever. She straight up lied to me even though I told her before my waters were broke that I was going to want pain relief and I understood I needed to wait till 3 cm minimum and I was ok with that, but after that we would need to discuss what was next for pain options (ideally before because I did not want the surprise and out of control feeling I and with my first and she promised it would be like that): Uhm...not what happened. That woman flat out denied me pain relief as I was screaming in pain, it brought so loud it brought in another midwife and a doctor who tried to intervene, but it was too late. So yeah, I got a natural birth that I did not want and it was traumatic for both me and hubby (which I think really says something about what happened that he was so upset by it, he is a really rational person).

 

Ladies advocate for yourselves, but most importantly make sure any birth partner with you knows your wishes and is willing to advocate for you. If my hubby had not stepped in with the second midwife and I don't know what would have happened, because I could not talk, I didn't even know where I was at points because of the pain. A lot of things went really wrong at the end and I am certain I am lucky that I made out of that room with my baby in any case and I think all the heavens above that we are both healthy. As with everyone else, disclaimer: this was just my experience and I am sure it was only this way because of the midwife I happened to be assigned. I had excellent midwives in the recovery ward who were very attentive and helpful. My community midwife was also so wonderful the past days. It does not have to be all bad, but it is all overshadowed by the labor and delivery.

*I am in the UK, midwives do everything here and you only have a consultant for higher risk issues (I had high blood pressure) and you still have the option of a hospital, which is where I was, there is also the midwifery unit for normal risk births, not sure about home births here, I know they happen, but if they are common?

[Iamtheway]

9 hours ago, VelociRapture said:

I was almost in tears about having to leave, but that was because my baby was staying behind in NICU. I actually did start crying when we went to say goodbye to her after I was discharged. We went back to visit that same night and every single day until she came home, but it wasn’t the same as being one floor away from her at all times. Leaving the hospital without her was the worst and most unnatural feeling I’ve ever experienced.

That must have been awful, especially so soon after birth with all the hormones. 

Do the parents always have to leave? My friends had a very premature baby that had to spend months in NICU and I’m sure one of them was pretty much always there with him. I know they took turns to stay the night because they had another child at home. They moved hospital a couple of times and I remember we talked about the different sleeping arrangements. I think one hospital had a small room with a bed for parents just behind every place in NICU. I might be remembering this wrong though. Thankfully it is all a bit blury since he is a big and relatively healthy boy now. 

[SilverBeach]

5 hours ago, apandaaries said:

Damn, late to the discussion, but I love birth stories. For those with tears and/or episiotomies, try pure, raw honey directly on the wound. It was so soothing and really helped the healing process.

I liked sitz baths myself.

[Satan'sFortress]

8 hours ago, Chewing Gum said:

Now if you look at the way animals give birth: NONE of them go into a crowded place where there’s lots of light. Cats like a small secure dark place for instance. That is why for some woman homebirth is the best option: they are able to relax best, have people they know and trust and are in their own environment: this level of relaxation increases oxytocin and thereby contractions. Now before you think I’m all pro homebirth: I am one that cannot give birth at home. I can’t stop moving around doing stuff, get reminded about my other children, wanting to 'speed things up' so I can see them again...I can’t get into a “bubble”,  so a small hospitalroom is perfect for me to let eveything else go and get into a “bubble" of relaxation.

 

Bold mine.  That was true for me.  I had my first at a hospital, second at a birth center.  I was so much more relaxed the second time.  I totally, 100% understand why most women want to go to a hospital, but for me, I wasn't happy or comfortable there.  Hell, I can't even poo in a public bathroom! 

Also, if anyone is interested in positive birth stories, particularly alternatives to standard, medicated hospital births , I recommend "Journey into Motherhood: Inspirational Stories of Natural Birth" by by Sheri L. Menelli .  By "natural birth" she means unmedicated, but I don't really like the term "natural."  Nonetheless,  an inspirational read for moms to be who are looking for something outside the norm.

[Baxter]

Even though things didn't go according to plan with having an episiotomy I would say overall I was pretty happy with my hospital birth. I had an epidural because I was in horrible pain before that. It was wonderful. It made the rest of the experience better. Most of the time it was just my husband and me in the room so it was fairly peaceful. The doctors and nurses were all pleasant before and after birth. The hospital also had rooms post birth where there was a queen sized bed so my husband could easily stay over and it was a little more homey. 

[lizzybee]

Another consideration, especially if you're having an induction, about mobility in birth is when my OB broke my water, she placed an internal monitor in the baby's head that took the place of the external monitor they had monitoring his heart-rate on my belly. I did not know this was a thing until it happened. But once doctor does that, you can't get up or anything. I asked to go to the bathroom and they had to bring me a bedpan which I couldn't get myself to use (I guess psychologically I cannot even will myself to pee in the bed) and they had to get a catheter. All this to say, this might be something you discuss with your doctor before she/he does something like this (or at least make a point to go pee first) because it's going to significantly change your ability to move how you want for the rest of the birth experience (Also you might feel weird about them sticking something in your baby's head. I did, even though they assured me it didn't hurt. I would have had a lot more questions about it, if I'd even been aware that was a thing so I could have at least been more informed and comfortable with what happened). 

[apandaaries]

1 hour ago, SilverBeach said:

I liked sitz baths myself.

I tried those too. Raw honey was approximately one million times better and more effective than the sitz baths. In fact, it was my whining about the lack of pain relief with the sitz baths that led my mother to  recommend the honey, which had been recommended to her by her midwife back in the 70s.  I felt *so much better* after using honey. There are really no words to describe it, and I think the healing kicked into high gear with honey.  I've read that Egyptian tombs have contained honey, likely for both medicinal and nutritional purposes. It never goes bad (though it will crystalize), which is rather amazing.

For anyone keeping track, I gave birth 14 years ago, and was pressured into an episiotomy by an impatient asshole of a doctor.  The kid and I are doing well all these years later, but scar tissue still exists and I still low-key hate the doctor who cut me (mainly because before his arrival, a nurse who was training to be a midwife had been helping me out with oil, massage, and a chill environment, then he arrived and fucked that low-key entry into the world up. Yes, almost 15 years have passed but I'm still pretty pissed off about all that).  I spent most of my pregnancy with a group of midwives who had a doctor in charge, and wound up delivering the weekend he happened to be on-call at the hospital. Best laid plans and all that..

[CrazyMumma]

Birth... such an emotive subject.  I had a csection 5 yrs ago and almost 3 yrs ago a vbac.  I have permanent hip damage from being a 'sister mom'. The damage to my hips has screwed my ability to birth easily.  Birth is hard and I wish everyone the best who goes through.  Yes I'm slightly bitter.  I went through very hard and incredibly long labours.  My husband is so traumatised that despite us both wanting a third child we just can't do it again.  I do have to say I couldn't have asked for better medical care then I had. 

When I told my Mum what her choice to not buy/use prams had done to my hips... she didn't give a damn.  She gave birth 8 times and didn't tear once.  Complains about when she birthed me which took 12 hours.