Seewalds 33: Schroedinger’s Uterus

[Seculardaisy]

Jessa’s friend Kristen, whom has been featured on the show many times, is confusingly using her newborn to hawk Juice Plus. Is the baby a juice plus baby? Is she insinuating the vbac is because of her Juice Plus use? What does any of this mean?

[HeadshipRegent]

the juice plus plug... the gigantic bow on a newborn... those weird headbands i don't understand... there's too much going on here

[Mama Mia]

I could understand the big messy hair held back headband on mom if this were a baby fresh-out-of the -oven, mom just got done pushing photo. But baby is obviously cleaned up and it’s been a bit. 

I don’t get that hat bow either? And I kinda like the baby bows. That just looks like they took her big sisters hat and stuck it on her randomly.

And the JuicePlus reference ? Was hawking juice plus how they got $$$$ For the hospital? For the weird head gear? Was the labor long and hard and drinking Juice Plus helped get her through? Very confusing - certainly the benefits of Juice Plus wouldn’t impact any obvious reason for a VBAC being successful ( or lack of Juice Plus necessitating a c-section ) 

As an aside, I feel like I’m finally using this site to be properly snarky 

- She does look very happy though, and it is nice to see people who just had a human being come out of them not look like they had professional hair and make up done.

[BunnyBee]

THEY ARE PROTECTING MOTHERS YOU IDIOT 

[Nargus]

12 minutes ago, BunnyBee said:

THEY ARE PROTECTING MOTHERS YOU IDIOT 

I didn’t know about the results from Ireland, this is fantastic news! (And Bin is an idiot. Glad he chimed in to remind us)

[BunnyBee]

1 minute ago, Nargus said:

I didn’t know about the results from Ireland, this is fantastic news! (And Bin is an idiot. Glad he chimed in to remind us)

I always convince myself that Jessa and Ben are more liberal and moving away from the fold, especially comparing them to Jill and OfJill, and then BAM right in the face with reality. 

[adidas]

37 minutes ago, BunnyBee said:

THEY ARE PROTECTING MOTHERS YOU IDIOT 

I bet he’s never heard of Savita Halappanavar or the X-case. 

[SapphireSlytherin]

When we were in Dublin last week, almost every single lamp post in the city had a "YES" and a "NO" poster on it - and some of them were quite graphic. I'm so very happy to hear the results of the vote.

[BernRul]

Ben and the other Duggars should be happy about this by their own logic. Those fetuses would have grown up to be either Catholic or secular. According to their logic, that means they would go straight to hell. But if they died as innocent unborn babies, before they could be baptised pagan Catholics or raised in pagan Ireland, than they would go straight to heaven. So this means more babies going to heaven! 

But seriously, now evangelicals are going to pretend that they give a shit about the Irish?

[Rachel333]

2 hours ago, BunnyBee said:

I always convince myself that Jessa and Ben are more liberal and moving away from the fold, especially comparing them to Jill and OfJill, and then BAM right in the face with reality. 

They would have to be really liberal to support abortion. That's a particularly difficult issue for a lot of people and there are a lot of people who are liberal on everything but abortion. Even if they are getting more liberal I would expect abortion to be one of the last issues they change their views on.

[Imaginary_Wonderland]

The Repeal campaign has been a decades long, hard fought battle. Another step is leaving behind our dark, destructive and oppressive hold over society by the Catholic Church. This is truly a great victory for Ireland and Irish women. I am happy and glad for the results. But Ben's tweet did enrage me enough to take to twitter and engage him. I wish now I hadn't. It will do no good, it won't impact on him or his followers at all. And I will probably be bombarded with nasty replies from his followers now.

I generally ignore the Duggars on social media, so I don't know what came over me. I did rant about that stupid book competition Jill was hawking and my instagram blew up with her supporters attacking me. I did once also send a sarcastic tweet to Derrick too, but he liked it, and I felt dirty! He obviously didn't get my twisted humour taking the piss out of him and instead thought I was backing him up and his shitty beliefs. I don't know if it is funny that he didn't get it or if I need to work on my sarky skills!

And @SapphireSlytherin Hope you enjoyed your visit to my hometown.

[SapphireSlytherin]

@Imaginary_Wonderland- Thank you. I did! It's such a beautiful town, and we saw as much as we could in the two days we were there. When we landed (5:30am) we walked both sides of the River Liffey from O'Connell Street Lower to the Calatrava "Harp" bridge, then back. We saw the outside of Trinity College, the Molly Malone statue, had tea in City Hall and toured that museum, toured Christ Church Cathedral and St. Audoen's Church, walked past the Guinness Brewery then walked to and toured Kilmainham Gaol. We cabbed back to our hotel where we finally crashed at 3:30pm. lol Short nap, walked down to a pub for dinner. 

Day two:  walked to Trinity College to see the Book of Kells and the Long Room, toured a couple more churches, wandered through the Temple Bar area, grabbed lunch somewhere, visited St. Mary of the Angels Church and toured the church and crypts of St. Michan's (MUMMIES!!!), and then took the Jameson Distillery tour and the tasting experience. We walked back to our hotel and that's when I discovered that Penney's = Primark, so shopping happened. Grabbed dinner in another pub and flew to London the next morning, bright and early.

Everyone was SO friendly! We will be back, and next time we'll rent a car and see more of your beautiful country. 

[ScorpiousMalfoy]

Oh c'mon, are you really suprised that Ben is not in favour of legalizing abortion? It's at the very core of their beliefs. Sure, he's changing and challenging his beliefs maybe more than the other people from their circle, but him going YAAY about this would be extremely unlikely...

[VelociRapture]

Dear Ben,

I’m not from Ireland, but on their behalf:

And

Spoiler

XO XO,

Your Scaly Lord and Savior

[Snowless]

12 hours ago, adidas said:

I bet he’s never heard of Savita Halappanavar or the X-case. 

Especially since the pregnancy in Savita’s case was planned and wanted.  In that case she was on the verge of miscarrying and really needed the abortion in order to preserve her own health.  She ended up developing sepsis as a result of her miscarriage and dying.  Late term abortions performed here are almost always done so either because the life of the mother is at risk or the fetus has been found to have some sort of condition that would either make its quality of life either extremely poor or nonexistent (as in it would die within a few days or months after birth and would be subject to great suffering in life).

I wish politicians here would consider Savita’s story before trying to vote through “fetal heartbeat” thresholds.

And obviously, for the government to force a woman to bear the child of her rapist (she didn’t consent to the intercourse, so she certainly didn’t consent to the pregnancy) is one of the most deplorable things that can happen to a woman.  How many pro-lifers take that into consideration?  But then again, in their group, people like Ben and the Duggars believe that the woman is responsible for having the sexual assault happen to her in the first place.  That kind of thinking infuriates me as a woman.

[BernRul]

I agree with the people saying it would be surprising for Ben to change his views on abortion. At my Catholic high school, we challenged the theology teacher on every social issue (gay rights, premarital sex, birth control, women being priests, etc) except abortion. Only a few students were vocally pro choice--the majority of us were pro life liberals. For us, the issue wasn't about women's rights but killing babies. When you really, truly believe it is taking an innocent life (and you were raised to believe that from a young age) it is hard to see the other side.

Honestly, it took me until I was well into college to support legal abortion. I still see it as taking a life (or the potential for life) but it's the lesser of two evils, and no one should judge women who have them. I think the reason we were so pro life when we were younger was because we couldn't imagine a situation where we'd ever consider abortion. As we got older we understood more about money and what pregnancy/childcare really entails, we became more pro choice. I had a pregnancy scare myself that made me truly understand how difficult the situation is.

For the Duggars to become pro choice, they'll need to be put into a position where they have to consider abortion as a possibility, or know someone who has to consider it. Unless that happens, they won't change even if they become more liberal in other areas.

 

[Bad Wolf]

Ben's hash tags are what I might have used if the vote was no.

[seraaa]

20 hours ago, BunnyBee said:

THEY ARE PROTECTING MOTHERS YOU IDIOT 

Ireland's abortion law was so strict there were no exceptions even for rape or fatal foetal abnormalities. This change is a good thing. And in practice, women just ordered abortion pills illegally, or, money permitting, came to the UK or Europe for the procedure. 

5 hours ago, BernRul said:

I agree with the people saying it would be surprising for Ben to change his views on abortion. At my Catholic high school, we challenged the theology teacher on every social issue (gay rights, premarital sex, birth control, women being priests, etc) except abortion. Only a few students were vocally pro choice--the majority of us were pro life liberals. For us, the issue wasn't about women's rights but killing babies. When you really, truly believe it is taking an innocent life (and you were raised to believe that from a young age) it is hard to see the other side.

Honestly, it took me until I was well into college to support legal abortion. I still see it as taking a life (or the potential for life) but it's the lesser of two evils, and no one should judge women who have them. I think the reason we were so pro life when we were younger was because we couldn't imagine a situation where we'd ever consider abortion. As we got older we understood more about money and what pregnancy/childcare really entails, we became more pro choice. I had a pregnancy scare myself that made me truly understand how difficult the situation is.

For the Duggars to become pro choice, they'll need to be put into a position where they have to consider abortion as a possibility, or know someone who has to consider it. Unless that happens, they won't change even if they become more liberal in other areas.

 

Thank you for sharing your perspective

[Fjrocks]

    I was reading an article recently that the abortion rates here are at historic record lows, less then fraction of one percent and continue to trend down,  basically due to easier access to birth control and education. 

   They reported the vast majority of those few that do happen, happen in the very first few weeks, or involve health risks or assault where even stanch pro-lifers extend compassion.  So basically adding more legal hoops wouldn't change a damn thing.

    Basically the article was telling our very conservative state...it's really just not a fight that needs fighting at this point.... except to know everyone really does win with access to birth control. 

[Satan'sFortress]

The Duggars, et al, though, must support a ban on abortion even in cases of rape, incest, or fetal abnormalities right?  Maybe they are OK with it if it saves the mother.  I think OfJill even said that.  But surely they would favor something very much like the Ireland law?

[BunnyBee]

13 hours ago, ScorpiousMalfoy said:

Oh c'mon, are you really suprised that Ben is not in favour of legalizing abortion? It's at the very core of their beliefs. Sure, he's changing and challenging his beliefs maybe more than the other people from their circle, but him going YAAY about this would be extremely unlikely...

Ben and Jessa are my unfortunate pet fundies so I occasionally fantasize about them leaving the fundie life, its very easy when they arent spewing hate constantly and are instead posting pictures of their adorable sons for me to coo over. 

I know its unrealistic but I am dreamer what can I say? 

 

[Rachel333]

It only makes sense to allow abortion only in cases of rape if you think that pregnancy is a punishment for having sex. If you think that, then it makes sense that abortion would be okay if the woman isn't at "fault" for getting pregnant. I think this does play a large part in a lot of anti-abortion beliefs, but I do think that for fundies the main concern is the life of the fetus. (That's definitely all I cared about when I was pro-life.) In that case they're not going to change their mind on the value of the fetus's life based on the way the fetus was conceived.

(As an aside, I've always thought the phrase "rape or incest" in abortion discussions was kind of weird. Isn't the kind of incest they're talking about also rape? Why specify the exact circumstances of the rape? If they were talking about consensual incest--which is very rare--and the concerns were genetic, then why would you allow abortion just because of a chance of abnormalities but not with known, non-incest-related abnormalities?)

Now allowing abortion to save the life of the mother is a different issue and it's not hard to make a pro-life case for that. My mom, for instance, is very anti-abortion but she has called Gisella Perl a hero for performing abortions in Auschwitz to save women from Mengele.

[mollysmom]

15 hours ago, Satan'sFortress said:

The Duggars, et al, though, must support a ban on abortion even in cases of rape, incest, or fetal abnormalities right?  Maybe they are OK with it if it saves the mother.  I think OfJill even said that.  But surely they would favor something very much like the Ireland law?

Satan'sFortress I don't know how to "tag" you so I have to use the quote button but I just wanted to say that I love your user name & picture!! Cracks me up every time I see it!!! That's all!! haha

[mollysmom]

I was raised that abortion is murder. Period. That has been drilled into my head for as long as I can remember.  Now that I FINALLY got away from the cult & I'm actually starting to think for myself, I definitely feel like there are circumstances where it's best for all involved to terminate a pregnancy & that is the decision of the woman.  For example, I feel that when a woman is raped & becomes pregnant she should absolutely not be forced to continue with that pregnancy or even be made to feel guilty for ending a pregnancy like that. Why the hell would you want a constant reminder of that for the rest of your life? 

[VelociRapture]

I support the right to choose for any reason. I’ve been pregnant, have given birth, and am currently raising a child - I know how difficult all those things can be and it makes me much more certain that every woman should have the right to decide for themselves whether to continue a pregnancy or not. Pregnancy, birth, and parenthood are hard and they aren’t for everyone. No one should be forced to go through with that if they don’t want to. Pregnancy and children should never be used as punishments for women who have sex and get pregnant.

I don’t like abortion (I don’t think anyone does) and I don’t know if I’d be capable of having one myself, but that doesn’t mean I have the right to tell someone else what to do with their body and their life.

42 minutes ago, mollysmom said:

I was raised that abortion is murder. Period. That has been drilled into my head for as long as I can remember.  Now that I FINALLY got away from the cult & I'm actually starting to think for myself, I definitely feel like there are circumstances where it's best for all involved to terminate a pregnancy & that is the decision of the woman.  For example, I feel that when a woman is raped & becomes pregnant she should absolutely not be forced to continue with that pregnancy or even be made to feel guilty for ending a pregnancy like that. Why the hell would you want a constant reminder of that for the rest of your life? 

I think we should be careful here. Every woman is unique and what’s right for one woman isn’t necessarily right for another woman. Some women may very much want an abortion if the baby is the product of rape, but some women may not want one too - they may very much want to raise the child themself or place the child for adoption instead. There’s never going to be a “one size fits all” when it comes to abortion and we should be careful to avoid making unintentional generalizations or judgements about any of them for that reason.