Dillards 48: Proselytising Prick Preaching to People

[The Roman from Ipanema]

18 minutes ago, AprilQuilt said:

 I cannot accept the use of pain, humiliation and fear to control another human (or indeed animal), and honestly I do look askance at those who use it as their standard method of discipline.

Judgmental and messed up on my part but I view these people as broken and should be sterilized and put on a registered offender list, with the kids taken away.

[AprilQuilt]

36 minutes ago, The Roman from Ipanema said:

Judgmental and messed up on my part but I view these people as broken and should be sterilized and put on a registered offender list, with the kids taken away.

well, I don't think that. There are a lot of reasons people physically discipline their kid - their families have always done it/they are at the end of their tether/they've never learnt about alternatives. Personally I think it's a rubbish method, but that doesn't mean people who do it have forfeited the right to have them: they should be supported in finding better ways to bring up the children they love, especially if their poor caregiving is due to ignorance or lack of resources.

Corporal punishment is much less acceptable nowadays, but for lots of people and their wider communities it's still seen as OK, so I just can't see it as a failsafe indicator of a bullying or abusive home environment.

I do worry that if Dwreck were prevented from/taught not to hit his kids, he'd just punish them with some nasty emotional abuse instead. Not that one's worse than the other, only that there are a lot of shitty ways to punish a kid and they don't all involve physical violence.

[Queen]

How can you be proud of abusing your children, to the point of forcing them to wear stupid shirts promoting the abuse while you stand beside them with the very weapon you hurt them with?? 

Spanking and hitting children is illegal in Finland, has been since the 80's or 90's, I think. Yet, I received a real spanking from my dad when I was three (mid-90's). I had destroyed a casette by taking out the tape. I thought I could put the tape back in afterwards, but before I even did it I guessed that there was a 50/50 chance I wouldn't be able to fix the tape afterwards, and I didn't really care that I might destroy it - which is why I thought I deserved the spanking I got. Dad placed me in his lap, took my pants off and spanked my bare ass with his hand. He was really angry with me but apparently he then regretted using corporal punishment on me, since mom told me afterwards he was really ashamed of what he'd done, so I was forbidden from ever speaking about it again since it would embarass him. 

I didn't know it was illegal what he did until I was almost an adult. We've never really spoken about this either. I was afraid of him afterwards, and thought I was an evil kid since I'd done such a bad thing as destroying what happened to be one of my parent's favourite casettes. 

[singsingsing]

26 minutes ago, Queen said:

Dad placed me in his lap, took my pants off and spanked my bare ass with his hand.

This is how my dad punished us, and he did it out of anger, often after chasing us around the house while we screamed and cried in fear. It was scary, painful, and humiliating. It did not instill any kind of discipline, respect, or love whatsoever. It taught me that my father was unpredictable and not to be trusted. It taught me to fear making mistakes around him rather than feeling confident enough to go to him for help. It taught me that it was far better to hide mistakes or issues from him to avoid a beating, rather than being able to resolve things with him in an open and healthy way.

My dad and I had a terrible, poisonous relationship for most of my life. It wasn't just because of the physical 'discipline' in my childhood, but that certainly did not help. I've never heard him express any kind of remorse or regret whatsoever, and I don't believe he thinks his actions were wrong. I've still never heard him brag or joke about it, or even mention it to anyone. That is sickening. Yes, I've seen plenty of people on social media bragging that they survived being spanked and beaten with various inanimate objects, boasting that it made them 'turn out right' and that kids these days just need a good beating - I guess they don't see the irony that their behaviour as adults proves the opposite. They are sick and sad people.

When I was in my mid-20s I realized that I had two options: to build a relationship with my dad on my own terms, or to cut him out of my life completely. I chose the former, and I'm glad I did. But the spanking is still a black, unspoken of mark on what is now a pretty good and healthy relationship, and it makes me sad that if I ever had kids I would definitely hesitate to leave them alone with him.

The Dillards seem to be of the 'lol librul tears, let's upset teh snowflakes' variety. At least the Duggars try to cultivate the appearance of treating others with kindness and respect. The Dillards have apparently dropped all pretenses and openly worship at the altar of Fox News 'conservatism'. They are literally everything Jesus condemned, and they can't see it. It would be hilarious if they weren't actively fucking up the world for everyone else.

[Glasgowghirl]

I was smacked a few times as a child, never with an implement and while I don't feel damaged by it, I do feel times have changed and their are better methods of disciplining children. Do I think people who have occasionally used smacking as a last resort are child abusers? no but families who regularly use it for the least little thing and do it to break the kids will, like the followers of Michael Pearl are abusers. 

Derick and Cathy make me sick for poking fun at abuse. I feel concerned for Izzy and Sam, Jill probably agrees with Derick and her own parents used similar methods so I feel she go along with it.

[HarleyQuinn]

I'm not giving Dan a pass yet. He was still raised by Cathy who is by all accounts a terrible person with terrible views. 

And re: my views on spanking. I don't have anything against spanking with your hands and not in an excessive manner. But don't bring a spoon or a belt into it. That just screams "I can't handle this situation and I need to feel bigger"

[singsingsing]

I will say that as someone who was the victim of 'excessive' spanking (I can call it what it was now - abuse), there are very different kinds of spanking. My grandma and mother also occasionally 'spanked' us. Their spanking amounted to a few light swats on the butt. It had no negative impact on us whatsoever, probably worked to get our attention/get us to stop trying to get in the oven or whatever we were doing, and while I personally wouldn't do it to my own children, I certainly don't think it's anything close to abuse. The problem is that 'spanking' is used to describe that, as well as to describe holding done a terrified, sobbing child and beating their bare ass with your hand repeatedly so hard that it leaves marks. 

I am going to go ahead and guess that Cathy wasn't particularly gentle with that spoon. 

[Inis Mona]

As a victim of abuse (beaten and hit frequently by my mother until I moved in with my dad.), This picture absolutely disgusts me — it’s no wonder studies have shown that people of abuse are more likely to become abusers themselves because people like Dwreck, with that smug, stupid grin of his, clearly hasn’t learned that being hit with a paddle is NOT good parenting, is NOT acceptable, and it shows a twisted relationship with one’s parent. 

It’s people like Dwreck who won’t make an effort to break the cycle of various things—and then gets frustrated why things remain the same. Newsflash: kids are going to test your patience, but Dwreck is just so frustrated with his family, he sees Izzy and Sam (and Jill, to some extent.) as an extension of himself and not as toddlers. 

Cathy appears to be the same way, viewing her kids as not individuals, but as people who need to view her as an absolute authority figure. It’s no wonder Dwreck is as self-righteous and conceited as he is—he may have anger issues.

[BullyJBG]

1 hour ago, Queen said:

 

Spanking and hitting children is illegal in Finland, has been since the 80's or 90's, I think. Yet, I received a real spanking from my dad when I was three (mid-90's). I had destroyed a casette by taking out the tape. I thought I could put the tape back in afterwards, but before I even did it I guessed that there was a 50/50 chance I wouldn't be able to fix the tape afterwards, and I didn't really care that I might destroy it - which is why I thought I deserved the spanking I got. Dad placed me in his lap, took my pants off and spanked my bare ass with his hand. He was really angry with me but apparently he then regretted using corporal punishment on me, since mom told me afterwards he was really ashamed of what he'd done, so I was forbidden from ever speaking about it again since it would embarass him. 

I didn't know it was illegal what he did until I was almost an adult. We've never really spoken about this either. I was afraid of him afterwards, and thought I was an evil kid since I'd done such a bad thing as destroying what happened to be one of my parent's favourite casettes. 

I always wondered about that; thank you for sharing. I remember reading that in Sweden spanking was against the law, and after I learned that, I always wanted to run away there, especially after a spanking, or even a spanking threat.(I got given the line about being too old to be spanked but they would do it anyway if I didn't do whatever. It just made me more look forward to being big enough to spank back) Until I was in University and studying child abuse, and it hit me; how many kids in Sweden, or Finland, or any other anti-spanking country, had kids who were spanked, but sworn to secrecy. I'm glad you and your dad have a good relationship now. I wondered if parents would then justify it, as a means of scare tactics, which pretty much is the same way I was raised.

[Queen]

@BullyJBG I read recently that 1/10 parents still use some kind of physical punishment over here, although it is not legal. My guess is many of them have been beaten/spanked themselves and are unable to break the cycle. There's a lot of research showing how much damage corporal punishment does and the norm is definitely to not bear hands on your children, not even lightly. But yes, some parents do it in secret. Tw: murder of a child We had a horrible case a few years ago of an 8 year old girl, Eerika, who was beaten to death by her father and step-mother. She had been abused by them for a long time and had just returned to their home - against her own wishes - from foster care where she had gotten professional help and support. Someone in the system hadn't understood the danger her father and step-mother were to her. The whole country was rightfully upset at the news and her murderers got hard sentenses. 

At least when abusing children is illegal, some of the perpetrators will pay a price for their actions. It being illegal affects attitudes and seem to make more people think before they spank. I don't think the Pearls would be allowed to speak or publish their books here either. 

[rainbowbabycakes]

On 12/30/2017 at 2:24 PM, AprilQuilt said:

A childhood friend of mine called her gran GaGa which is literally baby talk. We had to call her it too! I disdained it.

 

My aunt is GaGa, which is what her oldest grandson called her as a baby... It stuck, now all her grandkids, and her greats call her that... Sounds kind of funny to me, since most of her grankids are big strapping guys in their  late teens to late twenties at this  point, lol

I thought it was weird, but surprisingly, I've met more than a couple GaGas over the years.

My Grandparent are (or were, as the case may be) Grammy and Poppy on my Dad's side, and Grandpa and Grandpa on my Mom's.

My son is the first grandkid, so he picked the names on my side- ended up with MomMom and PopPop, and that's what my sisters kids call my parents too. He doesn't have any paternal grandparents.

[The Roman from Ipanema]

2 hours ago, singsingsing said:

The problem is that 'spanking' is used to describe that, as well as to describe holding done a terrified, sobbing child and beating their bare ass with your hand repeatedly so hard that it leaves marks. 

I have been there before, and I will never forget, forgive or understand why when I was six,my father spanked me and how excessive it became. It went from being spanked, to having my head slammed into the wall and screaming in my ears. Then he whispered that he would do worse if I told anyone. As far as I know, he did it because he had a "bad day" at work.

I didn't tell anybody what happened until I was thirteen, I couldn't hold it in anymore. Still, fuck corporal punishment and the people who think it is an acceptable way to raise children. I don't want anyone to go through what I went through. That's why I feel that intensely, to the point of advocating for sterilizing and taking the children away from those abuse or use corporal punishment.

The moment you resort to threats of physical abuse, I think you have lost or destroyed any sense of credibility and trust from children. Parents should be dependable, predictable and trustworthy. Can't have that relationship if your kid is afraid of you and constantly in my case.

[pook]

A family member of mine is going through the adoption process, which is rigorous and thorough in my country and includes home studies, interviews, letters of reference from physicians and multiple courses etc.  The biggest piece they have taken away from the experience is the message that corporal punishment of any form will not be tolerated and that if you are of the belief that "I was spanked and turned out just fine" then adoption is just not for you.  Cathy's blatantly ignorant post might just have silver lining if these asstwats are still planning on adopting.

[nastyhobbitses]

1 hour ago, HarleyQuinn said:

I'm not giving Dan a pass yet. He was still raised by Cathy who is by all accounts a terrible person with terrible views. 

And re: my views on spanking. I don't have anything against spanking with your hands and not in an excessive manner. But don't bring a spoon or a belt into it. That just screams "I can't handle this situation and I need to feel bigger"

Pretty much. I can recall maybe two times that my parents physically punished me (a smack upside the head, IIRC), but on those occasions, I was genuinely acting like a little shit (I was also at least 8 or 9, the second time I was 12) and really had gotten them to the end of their rope. It wasn't right of them, I don't think, and I think they could have handled it better, but I also recognize that it was basically the nuclear option after me continuously being a little shit. Still not OK, but I understand the context of the situation. 

I don't believe in corporal punishment. I think it's more about exercising power over the kid than about teaching the kid good habits and morals, and is often a sign of a lack of control over the situation and your own emotions. I used to work for a teaching NGO in a part of the world where corporal punishment was very, very commonplace; I routinely saw my students get beaten by other teachers with bamboo sticks, slapped, forced to eat things, etc. -- it was pretty awful to see, and there was little I could do to stop it besides make it clear that I would not participate in such things. Both students and teachers told me that the kids thought my class was a joke because I wouldn't hit them. Eventually (I regret this) I resorted to saying "I will never, ever hit you, but in this instance (I had caught a kid smoking in class), I will have to be physical, because I know other punishments will not work. Get on the floor and do 20 pushups." That was the compromise I had to make. 

[nickelodeon]

It always boggles my mind that, in a world where several countries have criminalized corporal punishment, people like the Andersons and Penningtons and Rodrigueses can publicly brag about attacking their children for hours on end. While the Dillards aren't on that level yet (thankfully), I'm still grossed out.

[SapphireSlytherin]

Please help me with this (perhaps fake) memory. I seem to recall Meeeechelle talking about blanket training, and using a wooden spoon to smack the being-blanket-trained-baby's hands/feet if they ventured off the blanket. Anyone else recall this? Bueller?

[VelociRapture]

15 hours ago, Casserole said:

I know one particular Italian American family who would laugh hysterically at those shirts and wear them proudly through their hometown in Staten Island and probably run into lots of other families who laughed too. Of course, they have an old school Italian grandmother, and if you step in Nonna's kitchen, at some point you were either threatened with the spoon, chased out with it aimed at you, or smacked with it. Of course, she was maybe 5 foot with her shoes on with 5 grandsons who loved to jokingly pick on her. I grew up with all of the boys and they still crack up when remembering the reasons why she came after them with spoons. 

However, there is too much evil in the Duggar/Dillard families for me to believe the shirts are in jest.   They were probably beaten to a pulp with that damn spoon. 

Yes! My husband is a (former) Italian New Yorker and his maternal Grandma was well-known for her slipper throwing skills - it was never a disciplinary thing, but always a mostly playful type, “You’re driving me crazy and you need to get the fuck outta my kitchen!” thing. His mom got good at dodging them, but his idiot Uncle always pulled a Rickon Stark by running in a straight line. It was almost too easy for her to pick him off. 

But you’re right that there’s a big difference between a story like that and the Dillard photo. With my in-laws it’s honestly just a few funny stories that everyone laughs at - with the Dillards it’s entirely possible that Derick and Dan (and now Sam and Izzy) were actually disciplined that way. 

14 hours ago, Kittikatz said:

I've been spanked/beaten occasionally as a child and it taught me nothing beyond being beat hurts and not to hit anyone else except in self defense/dire circumstances. My mother admits to one spanking (during an apparent temper tantrum at a shopping mall) and seems kind of sheepish about it. There were more incidents that seemed to be more about her rage/frustration than anything I did, but those are never discussed.

What makes this picture chilling to me was that one of my exBFs was beaten with a spoon regularly while he was growing up. His mother hit so hard that she regularly broke spoons on his backside. He laughed about it, but turned out to be a really psychologically/emotionally abusive person.  If that's the kind of thing that went on in the Dillard house I'd be especially worried about how DWrek and Jill handle discipline.

That said, I grew up next door to an Italian Canadian family and was a regular fixture at their house. The Nonna would swat people out of her kitchen with a wooden spoon, but she rarely made contact and was more a response to teasing or someone coming in to try to steal food before dinner, so maybe that's more the kind of thing those shirts are meant to refer to? I don't know, but it's a weird thing to post on social media.

I get that some spankings may be justified, but hitting little people because you are unable or unwilling to be bothered to discuss proper behaviour with them is nothing to brag about. 

I only remember being spanked once. I’m still bitter about it because my sister and I didn’t actually do anything wrong. My brother (who was 2 and also got spanked) was the one who messed up. My parents aren’t proud of that moment and don’t like talking about it to be honest - I think they reacted poorly because they were scared and just reacted in a way they hoped would keep us from doing it again. 

To be honest though, my parents didn’t “need” to spank us to get us to behave. My mom is a lot like Molly Weasley in the sense that she’s tiny with a short temper and a massive voice when angered. I think yelling can be pretty damaging too and I’m already taking steps to try and avoid doing that with my own daughter (in addition to having no intentions on using physical force with my kids.) I never felt comfortable going to my mom with my problems and I don’t want that to be the case for Velocibaby too.

[SamiKatz]

As someone who was also physically abused by my mother as a child (spankings, beatings, she legit tried to kill me once), I am vehemently against corporal punishment.  If you could be arrested for doing it to someone else's child, you should be arrested for doing it to your own.

 

[Casserole]

57 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

Yes! My husband is a (former) Italian New Yorker and his maternal Grandma was well-known for her slipper throwing skills - it was never a disciplinary thing, but always a mostly playful type, “You’re driving me crazy and you need to get the fuck outta my kitchen!” thing. His mom got good at dodging them, but his idiot Uncle always pulled a Rickon Stark by running in a straight line. It was almost too easy for her to pick him off. 

 

Hopefully whoever made that t-shirt design also has similar, silly anecdotes about the wooden spoon. 

I also learned the hard way not to sneak a meatball before Sunday dinner was ready. whoops. She'd also chase you with a fly swatter. Didn't have to be a spoon 

[Dandruff]

5 hours ago, AprilQuilt said:

I do worry that if Dwreck were prevented from/taught not to hit his kids, he'd just punish them with some nasty emotional abuse instead. Not that one's worse than the other, only that there are a lot of shitty ways to punish a kid and they don't all involve physical violence.

I agree, though a person can be emotionally abusive in addition to physically punishing their kids.  The comment Derick made about disagreeing with most of what Israel, a two year old, says and does really stuck with me - in a very bad way.  How much positive reinforcement do those children get?  Have we ever seen positive posts about the children and their accomplishments, aside from Jill's cutesy stuff?

I believe Derick's father was a police officer and I can't help but wonder what his role in parenting was while they were growing up.

[Kittikatz]

Agreed with @VelociRapture. Emotional abuse is just as bad, if not worse, than physical abuse, and unfortunately, the two often go hand-in-hand. 

Somepeople just should not have children, or there should be mandatory parenting courses that people must pass before they are allowed to breed.

[AprilQuilt]

28 minutes ago, Dandruff said:

I agree, though a person can be emotionally abusive in addition to physically punishing their kids.  The comment Derick made about disagreeing with most of what Israel, a two year old, says and does really stuck with me - in a very bad way.  How much positive reinforcement do those children get?  Have we ever seen positive posts about the children and their accomplishments, aside from Jill's cutesy stuff?

I believe Derick's father was a police officer and I can't help but wonder what his role in parenting was while they were growing up.

oh, yes - I didn't mean it was either/or. Derick says some weird things about his kids and his and Jill's relationship doesn't come across as that emotionally healthy either. I meant more that if Derick isn't actively hitting Izzy and Sam with a wooden spoon, that doesn't mean his parenting is A-OK. He's gonna screw them up some other way.

[WiseGirl]

32 minutes ago, Kittikatz said:

there should be mandatory parenting courses that people must pass before they are allowed to breed.

As a mandated reporter/foster parent I couldn't agree more......

[adidas]

1 hour ago, SamiKatz said:

If you could be arrested for doing it to someone else's child, you should be arrested for doing it to your own.

 

Exactly. I figured similarly - if it was illegal for me to hit an adult, it should have been the same for my child. 

I was once bemoaning my teenage son’s misbehaviour and jokingly said ‘what have I done wrong?’ to which my dad replied ‘they should have had spankings when they were little’  .

My parents were big fans of the ‘spare the rod spoil the child’ thing, but a shepherd doesn’t hit the sheep with his rod, he uses it to gently steer it in the right direction. He puts the rod in the direction of danger and points the sheep back in the right direction, using it to give the sheep a nudge if needed. If the sheep is particularly wild or wayward the shepherd places his staff alongside the sheep for a while longer, using firm but gentle resistance to keep it going in the right direction. He doesn’t pick the sheep up and beat it with that rod. If he did, the sheep would be petrified and run away - which is exactly what I did as a teenager and is exactly what I didn’t want my own children to do. 

[VelociRapture]

30 minutes ago, Kittikatz said:

Agreed with @VelociRapture. Emotional abuse is just as bad, if not worse, than physical abuse, and unfortunately, the two often go hand-in-hand. 

Somepeople just should not have children, or there should be mandatory parenting courses that people must pass before they are allowed to breed.

I just want to clarify - I agree with you completely, but I don’t consider my mother to be emotionally abusive at all. My mom always did what she did out of love for us kids, but losing her sister to suicide when I was five had a massive impact on how she parented and emotionally she has never recovered. I wish her temper had been better and she hadn’t yelled as much, but I also understand why she reacted that way and I know how insanely tough losing her only sister was for her. Despite all that, my siblings and I never doubted how loved we were by both our parents.