Mass shootings and gun violence are happening way too often

[onekidanddone]

I have a fourteen year old daughter. I can't with this.  I just can't.

[Ozlsn]

2 hours ago, GrumpyGran said:

Sitting on my bed feeling the frustration about this and thinking about how I can DO SOMETHING about it. Then it occurred to me. Going to call my financial advisor to make sure my portfolio and funds for my IRAs do not include any stock for gun manufacterers. I admit I don't know what's in there.

Do you have a 401K? Do you know what's in it? An IRA? We aren't going to buy guns but are we still unwittingly supporting them? Let's hit them where it hurts. This is what WE can do now.

How far off are elections? Is it possible to organise locally to get people to specifically say that if the candidate does not support e.g. restricting assault weapons then you as a group will not vote for them?

I get the feeling of helplessness - I am trying to organise things locally here over a specific issue, with elections not due until 2020. I will definitely start pressuring my 401K too.

[Rosalie]

I found this of social media today:

[LeftCoastLurker]

2 hours ago, GrumpyGran said:

Sitting on my bed feeling the frustration about this and thinking about how I can DO SOMETHING about it. Then it occurred to me. Going to call my financial advisor to make sure my portfolio and funds for my IRAs do not include any stock for gun manufacterers. I admit I don't know what's in there.

Do you have a 401K? Do you know what's in it? An IRA? We aren't going to buy guns but are we still unwittingly supporting them? Let's hit them where it hurts. This is what WE can do now.

Me too! I actually started a post this morning saying the exact same thing...what can I do? @GrumpyGran that is a great idea! I need to do some research on our investments as well. I would also love to flood the NRA Facebook page (do they even have one?) with negative, but calm, well-written comments. And let's do the same to every politician, no matter at what level, that has taken any money from the NRA. My day is crazed, but I might sit down with a glass of wine tonight and craft something. If I do, I'll post it. Does anyone else what to try?

[Ozlsn]

4 hours ago, GrumpyGran said:

As I watch my HLN, a point someone made, this kid will end up most likely on death row despite the screaming on the right about mental illness. Because he does not meet the definition of legally insane. So how do we decide who is "insane" enough to not get a gun? This really isn't an issue of insanity in that sense, it should be an issue of threat assessment. But, oh boy, we aren't going there. How many white men are a real threat to their female family members? And kids, unfortunately. Oh, and ex-girlfriends. And female co-workers who file complaints against them.  But we WILL NOT talk about keeping guns out of their hands.

Oh but they don't count as 'mass shootings'. Just 'domestics'. Unless like Devin Kelley you take it public.

This is to be honest one reason I would prefer all shootings to be grouped, whether the victims are related or not. It would give a much better idea of who is killing who and possibly stop masking who the actual threats are.

[Kailash]

I don’t think owning a gun is automatically bad. I’ve discussed my reasons for feeling like that before. I do think there should be stricter and better enforced gun laws. No average person needs an assault rifle. Never. I can also agree that there should be an age limit for owning hand guns and other guns not used expressly for hunting. My husband has 3 handguns, which I find utterly ridiculous and unnecessary. They are all legal though. Completely unnecessary. 

I’m sure there would be challenges implementing changes like Australia did. But I sure as hell think that trying things that have been proven to reduce mass shootings would be better than the fuck all we’re doing now. 

[Black Aliss]

5 hours ago, Rosalie said:

I found this of social media today:

And, more topically, via a FB friend:

No one has died from the Tide Pod Challenge. A few have called poison control, one person was hospitalized, but NOT ONE DEATH.

In response, many grocery stores have locked Tide Detergent Pods in security cases. Legislators are proposing laws to restrict Tide Pods. Tide, themselves, have added a bitter coating to dissuade people eating Tide.

17 lost their lives in a school shooting in Florida today.
We've had 18 firearms incidents in schools so far in 2018 (3 of them mass shootings)..
1,048 people have died as a result of mass shootings in the United States.
Children captured video of today's attack on their cellphones.

Let that sink in a minute.

AMERICA'S YOUTH IS LIVING OUT THE FIRST 10 MINUTES OF "SAVING PRIVATE RYAN", AND IT'S BECOMING NORMALIZED.

And there's "nothing" we can do.... but we're passing laws about Tide Pods.

[candygirl200413]

So an old friend on facebook made a status about how the argument of gun control has become so polarized that we just need to meet in the middle and it just made me really angry? I guess because I think it's about 70% of gun owners agree on gun control but there's the 30%+ politicians brought by the NRA that could really care less as long as they're getting funding. Any thoughts?

[HoneyBunny]

I cannot begin to comprehend how today’s students not only enter these schools five days a week, knowing each time might be their last, but then are expected to learn, and mature, and create some (good) memories at the same time. How do they do it? My husband and I travel overseas quite a bit, to places that aren’t always safe, and people ask us how we do it. I tell them we live midway between Columbine High School and the Aurora Theater, so our concept of what is safe vs. dangerous has been skewed for years. But we’re late middle aged, and are beginning to face our own morality even in a non-violent world.  But how do these kids do it?

i cried for days after Columbine (it was so close)  I thought, after Sandy Hook, that there were no more tears left in me to shed over this kind of violence.  But this has rubbed those tender places raw yet again.  I was in Hawaii last month during the Emergency Alert, and for 15 minutes or so we were certain we were going to die. It was like being on a crashing plane. But, in that case, nothing happened and no one was hurt.  Yet I still occasionally think about the terror I felt. How are America’s kids going to be able to process this?  I worry about them...

i hope they become very loud and vocal advocates for gun control. There is no reason people need those militarized weapons. Period. And I really think it’s going to take these kids who have already been forced to be brave beyond their years to shame our chicken shit politicians into doing something.  I think we baby boomers have screwed this up, and I pray that this generation of kids can make it right  

 

[AmazonGrace]

https://twitter.com/longlive_nixon/status/964215221022838787

[GrumpyGran]

Read on my DIL's facebook page, there is talk of high school students walking out on April 20th in protest of lack of action by Congress on sensible gun laws. We'll see if it happens or gets shut down.

[apple1]

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_examiner/2014/04/anger_causes_violence_treat_it_rather_than_mental_illness_to_stop_mass_murder.html

Quote

In the wake of a string of horrific mass shootings by people who in many cases had emotional problems, it has become fashionable to blame mental illness for violent crimes. It has even been suggested that these crimes justify not only banning people with a history of mental illness from buying weapons but also arming those without such diagnoses so that they may protect themselves from the dangerous mentally ill. This fundamentally misrepresents where the danger lies.

Violence is not a product of mental illness. Nor is violence generally the action of ordinary, stable individuals who suddenly “break” and commit crimes of passion. Violent crimes are committed by violent people, those who do not have the skills to manage their anger. Most homicides are committed by people with a history of violence. Murderers are rarely ordinary, law-abiding citizens, and they are also rarely mentally ill. Violence is a product of compromised anger management skills.

That is only a portion of the article. But it does bring up an almost-never-mentioned factor that it could be very productive to manage, in addition to other actions like reducing the volume of guns in this nation.

[fraurosena]

Disconcerting... 

 

[fraurosena]

This is incredibly sad for more than just nostalgia for a truly presidential president of the United States. It is absolutely depressing and downright despairing that his message, word for word, is just as on point today as it was then.

 

 

[Rachel333]

Reposting from the WWoS thread:

It looks like the information about Cruz being in a racist paramilitary group may have been false. It seems the misinformation was spread by the group members themselves as well as 4chan users who think it's hilarious to give the media false information. https://www.politico.com/amp/story/2018/02/16/florida-shooting-white-nationalists-415672

He was definitely still racist, though, and expressed hatred towards Jewish people, black people, Mexicans, immigrants, and gay people. https://edition-m.cnn.com/2018/02/16/us/exclusive-school-shooter-instagram-group/index.html

[AmazonGrace]

https://twitter.com/MSNBC/status/964654492565364741?s=09 here's how the presiopath responds to mass murder: he congratulates the first responders for driving fast

[Rachel333]

On 11/9/2017 at 3:42 AM, Rachel333 said:

Re: Jayne Mansfield: It's actually not true that all tractor trailers have to have an underride guard. It was recommended after the crash that killed her but it didn't actually get implemented very widely and it's still not required in the US. I know a girl who had two teenage sisters die a few years ago because the car they were in went under a tractor trailer in an accident that was determined to be the truck driver's fault. Since then their family has joined other families of people who died that way to try to get regulations requiring back and side underride guards, but it hasn't happened yet. I've seen discussions online where people insist that it would be too expensive for companies to install them and that the money it would cost the company is more important than saving a few lives.

So there are some parallels to gun control there, unfortunately. 

I'm quoting my post from earlier on this thread when that image upthread was posted before. Unfortunately gun control is far from the only issue where money takes precedence over human lives.

[fraurosena]

A politician that doesn't want to talk politics... because it's too confronting, eh, Lyin' Ryan? You'd much rather hold up your hands begging for money from your donors than listen to the American people that you are supposed to represent.

‘No more guns’: Protesters escorted out of Paul Ryan fundraiser in Key Biscayne

Quote

Two protesters chanting “no more guns” were removed from a Republican fundraiser in Key Biscayne Friday night after confronting Speaker of the House Paul Ryan about the mass shooting that happened days earlier and miles up the road.

“This is @SpeakerRyan’s version of Thoughts and Prayers. Odd, it looks like a donor event in the tropics,” an activist tweeted, along with a video of people milling about on an outdoor patio.

Ryan tweeted that the Wednesday shooting, which left 17 people dead and 15 wounded, was “pure evil.”

Maria Thorne, a Key Biscayne activist, said she noticed motorcade traffic clogging up her commute home from her job as a fifth grade teacher at iPrep Academy, where she spent the day reassuring scared students that she could keep them safe from a shooter.

Thorne, 49, heard a rumor that the motorcade might belong to Ryan, so she took a friend into the Ritz to investigate. She said men with lanyards at the entrance of a private area confirmed that it was a fundraiser for Ryan.

The National Republican Congressional Committee — the national fundraising arm for House Republicans — lists a 2018 Winter Meeting held in Key Biscayne this weekend.

Ryan’s spokesperson confirmed to the Herald that he attended the event, which had been planned months in advance.

Thorne said she found Ryan in the middle of the room — “I shook his hand and everything,” she said — and introduced herself as a teacher and Key Biscayner.

“Nice,” the Republican congressman replied.

“Nice?” Thorne said. “You’re here celebrating the death of 17 children.”

At that, Thorne said, Ryan told her he “didn’t want to talk politics” or argue. When Thorne tried to continue, security escorted her out. She chanted “No more guns!” on her way out the door, she said.

Thorne wants politicians, including Ryan, to pass laws that tighten gun control.

A native of Peru, Thorne said she remembered watching news of the mass shooting at Columbine High School in 1999.

“I lived through terrorism and bombings, but I’ve never witnessed anything like that in my life,” she said.

Since then, the teacher said, the shootings have grown more frequent and worse. She’s tired of watching them and tired of worrying about her children and her students.

“I’m tired. Nobody listens. Everybody tries to twist it around,” she said. “I’m a registered Democrat, but right now I just don’t want anybody that’s been fed by the NRA, otherwise this is never going to stop.”

 

[GreyhoundFan]

[fraurosena]

Wow.

 

[onekidanddone]

17 hours ago, candygirl200413 said:

So an old friend on facebook made a status about how the argument of gun control has become so polarized that we just need to meet in the middle and it just made me really angry? I guess because I think it's about 70% of gun owners agree on gun control but there's the 30%+ politicians brought by the NRA that could really care less as long as they're getting funding. Any thoughts?

Yes, you are quite right to be angry. Is there really a middle ground with the 30%? Not as I see it. Saying we should meet in the middle over people owning high capacity military equipped machine guns is like saying there is a 'middle ground' over racism. Is there a middle ground over the Japaneses interment camps? Slavery? Lynching? A middle ground over a 16 year old kid getting stalked, beaten and shot for carrying a bag of candy and an ice tea? No. No. And no. If there is a way to speak to these 30% I sure don't have what it takes to be the one to do it. 

ETA: I talked with One Kid today about a student walkout I've read might take place in April. I told her to follow her heart. If they do it at her middle school and she wants to be a part of it I would back her up and defend her if her principal tried to discipline her. Then I realized it is April 20th, isn't that the anniversary of Columbine? And then it hit me (pun, yes I know) April 20th is also 4/20 as in 4:20. Oh please Rufus, please let her join not joint with her classmates. 

[GreyhoundFan]

"Prominent Republican Donor Issues Ultimatum on Assault Weapons"

Spoiler

A prominent Republican political donor demanded on Saturday that the party pass legislation to restrict access to guns, and vowed not to contribute to any candidates or electioneering groups that did not support a ban on the sale of military-style firearms to civilians.

Al Hoffman Jr., a Florida-based real estate developer who was a leading fund-raiser for George W. Bush’s campaigns, said he would seek to marshal support among other Republican political donors for a renewed assault weapons ban.

“For how many years now have we been doing this — having these experiences of terrorism, mass killings — and how many years has it been that nothing’s been done?” Mr. Hoffman said in an interview. “It’s the end of the road for me.”

Mr. Hoffman announced his ultimatum in an email to half a dozen Republican leaders, including Jeb Bush and Gov. Rick Scott of Florida. He wrote in the email that he would not give money to Mr. Scott, who is considering a campaign for the Senate in 2018, or other Florida Republicans he has backed in the past, including Representative Brian Mast, if they did not support new gun legislation.

“I will not write another check unless they all support a ban on assault weapons,” he wrote. “Enough is enough!”

Mr. Hoffman, a former ambassador to Portugal, has donated millions to Republican candidates and causes over the years, including more than $1 million to Right to Rise, a “super PAC” that supported Jeb Bush’s presidential campaign in 2016.

A critic of President Trump, Mr. Hoffman has continued to donate heavily to other Republicans.

Alluding to past mass killings, Mr. Hoffman argued in his email that future gun massacres were inevitable without government intervention: “If we go from Orlando to Las Vegas, and now Parkland, you just have to know that there are others around the country just dreaming about staging another mass murder.”

Republican elected officials in Washington and Florida have shown no significant interest in considering new gun restrictions after the Florida school shooting. The party, which has full control of both the state and federal government, has traditionally opposed virtually all new limitations on firearms. Mr. Scott has resisted pressure to back new gun regulations after the killing of 17 students at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Broward County on Wednesday, though he said “everything’s on the table” in a television interview.

And Senator Marco Rubio of Florida voiced resistance to discussing gun control in a speech after the massacre, arguing in the Senate that a person determined to carry out an attack would find the weaponry to do it regardless of government regulations. His comments provoked outrage among some students who survived the shooting.

A previous federal assault weapons ban, enacted in 1994 under a Democratic president and Congress, lapsed in 2004 while Republicans had full control of Washington.

Mr. Hoffman acknowledged it was “not likely” that he would succeed in making the party more open to an assault weapons ban, and said Republicans were too beholden to the National Rifle Association. He has urged Republicans in the past to support certain firearms restrictions, without effect, but has not previously issued such a blunt threat.

One of the recipients of Mr. Hoffman’s Saturday message, Mel Sembler, another former ambassador and ally of the Bush family, suggested he did not intend to join the proposed donation boycott. “I don’t plan on getting into this debate,” Mr. Sembler, who also lives in Florida, said in a brief email.

Even on its own, Mr. Hoffman’s money will be missed: He contributed heavily to Republican congressional candidates in 2016 and gave $25,000 last spring to the Senate Leadership Fund, a group backed by Mitch McConnell, the Senate majority leader, that is focused on defending Republicans’ Senate majority.

He said he would close his checkbook to that group and others like it, and would encourage others to do the same in the absence of action on guns.

“I’m going to email every single donor I know in the Republican Party and try to get them on board,” he said. “We’ve really got to start a little movement here.”

I doubt it will do any good, but it's nice to see that one of the "money" people is taking action. I hope he will stick to his word.

[VelociRapture]

21 hours ago, HoneyBunny said:

I cannot begin to comprehend how today’s students not only enter these schools five days a week, knowing each time might be their last, but then are expected to learn, and mature, and create some (good) memories at the same time. How do they do it? My husband and I travel overseas quite a bit, to places that aren’t always safe, and people ask us how we do it. I tell them we live midway between Columbine High School and the Aurora Theater, so our concept of what is safe vs. dangerous has been skewed for years. But we’re late middle aged, and are beginning to face our own morality even in a non-violent world.  But how do these kids do it?

i cried for days after Columbine (it was so close)  I thought, after Sandy Hook, that there were no more tears left in me to shed over this kind of violence.  But this has rubbed those tender places raw yet again.  I was in Hawaii last month during the Emergency Alert, and for 15 minutes or so we were certain we were going to die. It was like being on a crashing plane. But, in that case, nothing happened and no one was hurt.  Yet I still occasionally think about the terror I felt. How are America’s kids going to be able to process this?  I worry about them...

i hope they become very loud and vocal advocates for gun control. There is no reason people need those militarized weapons. Period. And I really think it’s going to take these kids who have already been forced to be brave beyond their years to shame our chicken shit politicians into doing something.  I think we baby boomers have screwed this up, and I pray that this generation of kids can make it right  

 

I’m turning 30 in the spring, so I’m not much older than some of these High Schoolers and I had to do lockdown drills in High School like they do... but I don’t know how these kids do it either. I also don’t know how parents are able to send their kids to school each day without having a breakdown. My baby is only 14 months old and I’m already worrying about whether she’ll be safe when she starts preschool in a few years. Yes, we’ve officially reached the point where parents are actually worrying about shootings at preschools! 

As for your Baby Boomer comments, I very much doubt every single one of you Baby Boomers helped mess up gun control so badly. I’m sure there are a lot of people in your generation who are reasonable and caring and want to see protections put in place. Every generation eventually screws things up somehow. Try not to feel too bad and remember you’re one of the good ones.  

And some of the Parkland students created this Facebook page for anyone interested:

https://www.facebook.com/NeverAgainMSD/

[fraurosena]

Because the Dems didn’t, the Repugliklans don’t have to! 

 

[Rosalie]

The father of whataboutism...