Anna, Josh, and the M-Kids, Part 10: Genes and Bedsheets

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

5 hours ago, KelseyAnn said:

Coming from a home that was as fucked up as the Duggar home (If not more) Josh really should be watched carefully. My Dad put on massive amounts of weight after my mom's abuse started to get worse with time, and it wasn't long after that that he tried to kill himself for the first time. 

POS that he is, Josh doesn't  deserve to feel so lowly about himself that he sees suicide as the only option- nobody should feel that way. And I'm saying this as someone who was molestation victim. 

The children in that house are that way because they were MADE that way. All to often victims become victimizers- it's all too easy to hurt other people when you are hurting yourself. 

I was in a bad way myself for the longest time after getting out- and you know what, if I hadn't forced myself into therapy, I very likely would've ended up like my mother. 

Your 1st paragraph is something I've been thinking about, I'm a little concerned that Josh may try to hurt himself, or worse, take Anna and the kids with him. But I'm not sure he would do it either, because of his faith, and that fear of suicide leading to an eternity in hell, and murder would make that worse for him. BUT, not physically talking care of ones self, gaining a lot of weight he may be hoping probably subconsciously that if he doesn't take care of himself he will die young. 

JB & J'Chelle bear a lot of blame for Josh's behavior, they failed all their kids by caring more about themselves and their cult than they did about their kids,, they had more kids than they could afford or love and properly care for, Josh is old enough to remember how horrible it was pre TLC, Jana & JD as well and the more I think about it the more I think this is why they aren't married yet. He was abused emotionally and physically by hi parents and now he is turning around and doing it to his kids. 

Josh, needs therapy REAL therapy not the pray it away therapy, for himself, for his wife, for his kids, Oh and he needs to get Anna in as well.

[BobTheWalrus]

On 29/04/2017 at 2:22 AM, JesusCampSongs said:

Agreed; I think the only thing that will remove Josh from the family is...Josh. Not sure how many of these (likely endless) cycles of sex sin -> get caught -> blame a woman -> Jesus jail -> changed man he'll be willing to go through before he says, "fuck it, I'm out." 

And my guess is that that's exactly what he won't say. This situation, weird as it may seem, is actually working for him. He molested kids and didn't really face any consequences. In fact he had public figures supporting him and saying he should be forgiven. And his parents may have made tearful statements about how hard that seasons of life was for them, but only after it had come to light. They didn't own up to it in any of their shows, and I don't believe they would have brought it to light voluntarily. That tells you a lot about their attitude towards Josh (nothing he does is that bad) and their pride in resenting a good face to the world. Then he screwed around on his wife and didn't face any serious consequences. Sure, he had to do this Christian rehab thing, but if there were no trained psychologists there how much actual, genuine change has he had to make? My guess is that so long as he said the right things, shed a few tears and toed the line while he was there, he can get away with not actually making any real changes.

For those reasons, I would say that this situation is absolutely working for him. He can act atrociously and know that his submissive wife will submit and forgive him. He apparently doesn't have to work to support the wife and five kids he has. And I still think there's potential for a reconciliation book/speaking tour in the future. Compared to tearing himself away from his family who have literally been his entire world for more than half his life. and having to get a job and pay for an apartment, bills, cook for himself, pay child maintenance etc etc....no, it's much easier to stay in la la land where he can basically indulge himself and get away with it.

[BobTheWalrus]

8 hours ago, TheDuggarnaut said:

 

If you've been told your entire life that you would BURN IN HELL if you lived any other way, that has to be hard to get past. 

 

I agree, although it also made me think of Carolyn Jessop, who got out of the FLDS with her eight kids. She'd been at the hospital with her son who had cancer, and the "evil heathen" doctors and nurses and social workers were kinder to her than anyone in her religion had ever been. And she realised, if these people are going to hell then I'd rather go to hell with them than spend eternity in "heaven" with my abusive husband. It was still hugely difficult for her to leave, though, and she at least had the benefit of some college education, which Josh doesn't have.

But yeah, we shouldn't underestimate the pull that kind of thinking has on someone.

[Scrabblemaster]

19 hours ago, MoonFace said:

I'm disappointed that Anna is having a boy in that I think that if she were having a girl they could name her Mercy.   

What about Mercer? Although it means something like "a merchant" according to sources but as long as the mercyful Mercer only sells qivers full of redemption booklets, it should be approved. 

[imokit]

Everyone knows that the next M girl will be Madison or maybe Madeline - something you can shorten to Maddy 

[Pasta]

Would they choose Maria or Mellany? 

[PumaLover]

I agree, although it also made me think of Carolyn Jessop, who got out of the FLDS with her eight kids. She'd been at the hospital with her son who had cancer, and the "evil heathen" doctors and nurses and social workers were kinder to her than anyone in her religion had ever been. And she realised, if these people are going to hell then I'd rather go to hell with them than spend eternity in "heaven" with my abusive husband. It was still hugely difficult for her to leave, though, and she at least had the benefit of some college education, which Josh doesn't have.
But yeah, we shouldn't underestimate the pull that kind of thinking has on someone.

I loved her book. It really gave an insight into the cult and just how awful it really is. IBLP and ATI are equally as awful in my book but I feel the FLDS is sheltered even more than these people. And Carolyn was brave to get out. Her husband didn't care if her son died. He was just mad at her for going behind his back to get him care when he hadn't approved it. Just a horrible person.

[Tatar-tot]

The story of Josh is sad.   He is committing suicide on the layaway plan - one bite at a time.

[closetcagebaby]

17 hours ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

Your 1st paragraph is something I've been thinking about, I'm a little concerned that Josh may try to hurt himself, or worse, take Anna and the kids with him. But I'm not sure he would do it either, because of his faith, and that fear of suicide leading to an eternity in hell, and murder would make that worse for him. BUT, not physically talking care of ones self, gaining a lot of weight he may be hoping probably subconsciously that if he doesn't take care of himself he will die young. 

snippy

He does have some of the classic characteristics of the Family Annihilator-type, but I think he's missing some of the key factors, which makes me think he probably would only hurt himself (and even then, likely not, due to his narcissism and his faith). He has that golden boy narcissism where he likely believed he could maintain double lives because he deserved it and no one would be the wiser because he was just that smart. And also, the extreme need to present himself and his life as exceedingly perfect and under his control. Usually the F.A. type has a similar personality. And like Josh, they usually have some sort of impending doom that is going to cause their seemingly perfect life to come crashing down, exerting a huge amount of stress and pressure on them, whether it's financial (this is a big one) or personal negligence.

The F.A. usually murders his family in order to "save" them from a less than perfect life or from realizing the bill of goods that they have been sold. But I don't necessarily see Josh as a John List type. Though he has the personality, I don't think he had quite the amount of pressure and stress that this type of person usually needs to become a killer. Mostly because, well, he had already gotten away with so much. I think he knew that even if (or when) his double life came to surface, he knew he could play it and end up mostly fine. Sure, he's sad and gaining weight, but he still has a wife, a family, and an income.

Sorry for the long post, but I love true crime and the psychology behind it!

[VelociRapture]

... am I the only one a bit uncomfortable with speculation regarding Josh's potential for violently harming his family? If so, I'll gladly leave the conversation until we move on.

[Coconut Flan]

No, you are not.  I find it gross and inappropriate.

[Bad Wolf]

8 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

... am I the only one a bit uncomfortable with speculation regarding Josh's potential for violently harming his family? If so, I'll gladly leave the conversation until we move on.

Well, I wouldn't leave kids a!one with him, but not because I think he would harm them. I'm more afraid that he or any Duggar would try to indoctrinate them with their poisonous views.

[VixenToast]

I guess I don't feel uncomfortable about the subject. I also love the psychology behind crime, serial killers, etc. I'm a morbid little weirdo.

That being said, gossip sites devour our every word, and it wouldn't be wise to let them misconstrue us.

The chances of FA have been stated, let's not discuss it further. It is unnecessary and we don't want to give the gossip rags assumptions.

<3 <3 <3

[TheDuggarnaut]

I don't see Josh harming his family.

My concern is possible deepening depression. He got a taste of freedom and the real world, and now he's trapped more than ever in a life he wasn't satisfied with. Maybe I'm reading too much into his physical appearance, but just given the many social and psychological issues he's dealing with, well, I'd be depressed in that situation.

[Carm_88]

I predict that Josh and Anna will continue to be miserable and their unhappy marriage will continue for many years to come. There will be many babies too. I doubt redemption baby will be the last. 

[closetcagebaby]

Sorry guys, like I said, I find this subject fascinating, but I know a lot of people don't. In case it needs to be said, my post was purely hypothetical and I don't think anyone is in any real danger (except for brainwashing).

[VelociRapture]

Thanks everyone. I find it interesting too, just when discussing someone who is proven to have acted a certain way. Not when hypothetically discussing a real person.  

[nokidsmom]

Getting back to Josh's source of his unhappiness: there's been a lot of good points made here.   Loss of "golden boy" status.   Being married with five kids and counting.  No real repercussions over misdeeds.   Fear of hell.   Super enmeshed family that is difficult to break from (I know about this one).    Personally I think it is probably a combination of any / all of these things.  

Now would he change anything for himself?  I don't think so.  Josh will slog on as he is because he knows no other way.   Even if he had gotten real counseling instead of Jesus Jail, he would still have to be willing to do the hard work of looking at himself, his choices, his upbringing in order for any counseling to do any good.  That's the rub:   Josh is not someone to do hard work.  In anything.  So he will continue to be unhappy and not really understanding why, because it will be easier.  Working for Daddy who will make sure he and his family will not starve is not hard work on his part, it's being handed to him, just as before.   Easy way out.  Staying around the family who let him slide when he molested his siblings is not making him face the real consequences of his actions.  Again easy way out.  Same thing with Anna She Who Forgives All.  

In short, he will have to do some hard work and that's not in him. 

[Penny]

But what will happen when JB dies and Josh doesn't have any source of income? Will the other siblings support him? I don't see that happening. 

[Carm_88]

5 minutes ago, Penny said:

But what will happen when JB dies and Josh doesn't have any source of income? Will the other siblings support him? I don't see that happening. 

I would imagine it all depends on what happens to the family trust. Josh may continue to be paid from that. 

[nokidsmom]

1 minute ago, Carm_88 said:

I would imagine it all depends on what happens to the family trust. Josh may continue to be paid from that. 

Agree.   And Josh will not be the only one still reliant on family by that time.   J'chelle would need support plus any single siblings or siblings that boomerang back.  

[melon]

18 hours ago, Tatar-tot said:

The story of Josh is sad.   He is committing suicide on the layaway plan - one bite at a time.

Slow motion suicide.

 

[TeamDefraudinSquad]

According to radar Josh let someone get away with one of the cars from the used car lot: 

http://radaronline.com/videos/josh-duggar-car-stolen-from-car-dealership-gun-buy-from-thief-police-report/

He must be depressed and overwhelmed, to have forgotten to take the guy's driver's license down before letting him test drive one of his cars. A car is a big item to just lose like that. 

[Gillyweed]

31 minutes ago, TeamDefraudinSquad said:

According to radar Josh let someone get away with one of the cars from the used car lot: 

http://radaronline.com/videos/josh-duggar-car-stolen-from-car-dealership-gun-buy-from-thief-police-report/

He must be depressed and overwhelmed, to have forgotten to take the guy's driver's license down before letting him test drive one of his cars. A car is a big item to just lose like that. 

Isn't there usually a sales guy with you in the car when you test drive? That's how it's always been when I'd go with my dad as he shopped for a car (I've yet to buy one of my own, but when I do I'll probably bring my dad with me to help me haggle lol)

[VixenToast]

Name guessing, I need to distract myself from my feel-sorries for Josh. Ugh. Ugh. I hate my empathy. Our depression speculation is seriously making me cry over Josh. Wtf. Aunt Flo must be coming soon, as there are very few times I'll cry and feel sorry for someone who doesn't deserve any.

ok... names. At least it's narrowed to male and 'M'

Mason

Moses

Morgan

Melvin/Martin/Marvin/Melville/Milton

Max

Milo/Miles

Mordecai/Micah/Malachi (Hehehe, children of the corn.)

Mortimer (wooo Sims, anyone?)

Matthew (Most likely... then again,  I did think Marcus would be Matthew. Whatever.) 

Maddox

Marshall

Muhammad?