The Boyer Sisters: Part 4

[FeministShrew]

On 3/2/2017 at 9:47 AM, Palimpsest said:

 

That's great.  What was your wedding dress like?

And most definitely Mr. Collins.

Sorry, @Palimpsest I meant to reply sooner! This is my dress, and I also have a matching black velvet cape. For added nerditude, I carried a red light-up lightsaber that makes noise. Mr. Shrew wore a kilt (Blackwatch tartan) & black  jacket. Nothing nearly as fabulous as Gabe's wedding outfit! (Disclaimer - no Scottish ancestry or cultural appropriation, Hubby just loves to wear kilts.)
Oh yeah, I also walked in to the Imperial March (Vader's Theme).

[AlwaysExcited]

That hit too close to home. 
Gabe, your family member desperately needs help. For the love of God and all holy, put your religion away and get her some. Encourage her to go to real therapy. Speaking to someone, who understands, what's going on, but does not buy your bullshit, helps a lot. 

[Palimpsest]

24 minutes ago, FeministShrew said:

This is my dress, and I also have a matching black velvet cape.

Hey, that is gorgeous!

I would have loved your wedding.

 

[SoybeanQueen]

8 hours ago, nastyhobbitses said:

 But religion doesn't have a monopoly on goodness and I just can't get behind belief systems that say that no matter how good or ethical or just a person is, if they don't pray the right way, they're bad people.

Agree with this 100%. I think it's a strange notion that one's religion is the only thing that prevents them from being a horrible person.

Personally, I don't believe that the Christian Bible says those who don't believe are horrible people. It says they won't be with God eternally, which I suppose is probably OK with them if they don't believe in Him. Certainly there are groups that call themselves Christian that categorize people into good and bad based on belief. I think that ruins the entire idea of loving one's neighbor.

[Fun Undies]

Just gonna leave this here:

[Palimpsest]

1 hour ago, Kariina said:

For all readers know, Jessica and other similarly distressed SAHDs could have major depression, or be lashing out at loved ones, or it might just be a little bit of worry which they're magnifying to epic theological significance.

Very true.  Or she could be trolling us, as Gabe might want us to believe.

I don't think so.  What I am seeing in that blog post is a young woman who is struggling with a broken engagement, major life changes (not only did Brigid get married last year but I think they moved), describing fear, worry, serious anxiety, and beating herself up with thoughts that her these (understandable) feelings are some kind of moral failing and that she is failing to connect properly to God.

She is in such a state that she has physical symptoms too.  Aches and chest pains on stress-relieving walks.  Depression can cause pain and pain can cause depression.  She says heartburn - but acid reflux can do a lot of damage if not treated.  She needs a complete physical too.

 @usedbicycle quoted one of the Seven Sisters above.  I think it was Cassia who wrote a very courageous post about having struggled with depression and suicidal thoughts.  She seemed to have come out of it OK and is moving on with her life well, whether or not she got professional help.  Thank goodness.

Suicidal ideation is nothing to fool around with.  Note:  I'm not saying Jessica is suicidal at all.  I'm not doing an armchair diagnosis.  I am saying Jessica sounds really miserable.

These girls may be suffering unnecessarily.  The thought that they are denied therapies that might help and just told to pray some more really upsets me. 

[ladyamylynn]

I just went back and re-read the birthday post. I feel bad for Jessica, they just gloss over the fact that Levi was there. That would be stressful for anyone. I thought back to the controversy about whether Bridget was being willfully or ignorantly obtuse about that situation (right around the wedding) and I can't decide if she's clueless or what. Why on earth would you have a family birthday party with your sister's ex-fiancee 6 months after they broke up? It just seems mean. That being said, in a normal family, Jessica could have easily declined the invitation. I get the feeling daddy doesn't stand for outward discord between the girls regardless of what is really going on. 

[Kariina]

@Palimpsest definitely true -- Jessica's posts give more details than a lot that I've read, and there's a trackable thread back to her broken engagement and the entanglement that make it fairly obvious what's going on. I think the vague style of writing in these posts just always irks me from a communication standpoint, because as a reader, I feel like...how in heck is anyone supposed to come away with a picture of what you're going through when you barely explained it amid the Jesus mumbo-jumbo?

That's just me, though. I know that's actually pretty cut-and-dry style for some fundies, because that's how they communicate.

Charlotte had something of her own going on, back in...summer or fall? That sort of fits more what I described. The vague "description" of the problem, the self-chastisement, the conclusion that she wasn't connecting enough with God, etc.

These poor girls. Growing up and having heartache and navigating relationships, sometimes to an unhappy end, is an unpleasant but ultimately normal part of life. It doesn't signal catastrophic failure, it's something you deserve to work through without feeling as if you're pissing off the creator of the universe and descending into sin.

Not to mention, I'm actually a little offended by this part:

Quote

No matter what it is, when we listen to clamoring fear, we lose sight of God because we are so full of ourselves. We need to stop and be quiet so we can listen to God and remember His promises.

So essentially, fear is selfish? What about those with anxiety disorders? Do you know nothing about the psychology of disorders like GAD, OCD, phobias, etc.? I have all of the above. I'm dismayed to discover that apparently it's selfish and ungodly to get stuck in a compulsion cycle. Believe me, I don't want to sit here and re-put on my pants until I "get it right" according to my disorder. 

Maybe God should have gotten my brain chemistry right the first time. </ offended special snowflake mode >

[Palimpsest]

17 minutes ago, ladyamylynn said:

they just gloss over the fact that Levi was there.

Was Levi there?  I wouldn't be able to tell him from a hole in the wall, but I think someone else said he wasn't there.

I would hope Levi had the grace to decline the invitation politely.

@Coconut Flan, please note that I am trying to be very conscientious about snipping quotes properly but I'm feeling that I'm being a bit rude.  

[ladyamylynn]

3 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

Was Levi there?  I wouldn't be able to tell him from a hole in the wall, but I think someone else said he wasn't there.

I would hope Levi had the grace to decline the invitation politely.

@Coconut Flan, please note that I am trying to be very conscientious about snipping quotes properly but I'm feeling that I'm being a bit rude.  

Well I thought so based off this quote.

Quote

Gabe and his friend Levi both celebrate their birthdays within a few days of each other, so they decided last year that an annual ball would be a wonderful way to celebrate together. 

 

[Palimpsest]

Just now, ladyamylynn said:

Well I thought so based off this quote.

 

I had hoped that meant last year and that this year Levi bowed out. If he was there, poor Jessica, indeed.

[Palimpsest]

31 minutes ago, Kariina said:

So essentially, fear is selfish? What about those with anxiety disorders? Do you know nothing about the psychology of disorders like GAD, OCD, phobias, etc.? I have all of the above. I'm dismayed to discover that apparently it's selfish and ungodly to get stuck in a compulsion cycle. Believe me, I don't want to sit here and re-put on my pants until I "get it right" according to my disorder. 

Maybe God should have gotten my brain chemistry right the first time. </ offended special snowflake mode >

Yes.  Although that part is exactly what upset me, and I could have taken offense too!

She is being told that she is being too full of herself, selfish, and losing sight of God when she may have an anxiety disorder or situational depression (adjustment disorder).

It pisses me off.

[Coconut Flan]

3 hours ago, Palimpsest said:

@Coconut Flan, please note that I am trying to be very conscientious about snipping quotes properly but I'm feeling that I'm being a bit rude.  

You're doing such an excellent job.  Remember it's kind to save space and help people read threads faster. 

[refugee]

19 hours ago, ladyamylynn said:

I get the feeling daddy doesn't stand for outward discord between the girls regardless of what is really going on. 

Too true. In that crowd, appearances are everything.

It's  ironic that there's even a bible verse about it: 2 Timothy 3:5-7.

(This is the first thing that popped up on my web search for "appearance of godliness" -- I'm not a huge KJV proponent)

 

5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,

7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

19 hours ago, Kariina said:

So essentially, fear is selfish? What about those with anxiety disorders? Do you know nothing about the psychology of disorders like GAD, OCD, phobias, etc.? I have all of the above. I'm dismayed to discover that apparently it's selfish and ungodly to get stuck in a compulsion cycle. Believe me, I don't want to sit here and re-put on my pants until I "get it right" according to my disorder. 

Maybe God should have gotten my brain chemistry right the first time. </ offended special snowflake mode >

Sadly, in that crowd, many (most?) don't recognize things like anxiety disorders, phobias, OCD... It's all labeled "sin" (which just piles on the guilt), and sufferers are exhorted to "take every thought captive" and "be anxious for nothing"

...which helps a whole lot...

...not.

[Palimpsest]

W-e-l-l.

Jessica has responded, very politely, to many of the concerned comments on her last blog.  

Quote

It seems like several commenters think I am still not doing well, but I think you caught on to the fact that I am doing far better than I ever have in this walk towards healing. 

She would like everyone to know she is feeling much better now.  It's helping that winter is almost over and she can get vitamin D from sunlight.

Jessica, look up Seasonal Affective Disorder and check into light therapy.   It works for me. 

In response to someone suggesting counselling (thanks, Elizabeth) she says:

Quote

Thanks for the suggestion, Elizabeth. I have thought of doing this before, but you know what? My parents have always come through for me in my darkest moments. They know me best, love me best, and the Lord gives them the wisdom to know exactly what I need to get me through a rough time. Also, I have only to pick up a healing book, my Bible to find all the counsel I need. Podcasts from my favorite Christian resource, Ligonier Ministries, has also given me plenty to keep my mind grounded in God’s promises.

Okey-dokey, then.  That's nice.  Don't rule out professional counselling though, Jess, if this happens again.  And please try not to turn others against it.

It is a pretty nasty God who would want you to suffer the pain you claimed in that post.  If true, it was a sad waste of several months of your life..

I'm afraid that you may be encouraging your followers to wallow in anxiety and pain unnecessarily, intentionally or not.

That is not inspirational or spiritual.  And it could be downright dangerous for some people.  Think about it.

[Kariina]

One commenter refers to anxiety as "Worryitis." I wonder if that's in the DSM-V?

[Palimpsest]

5 minutes ago, Kariina said:

"Worryitis." I wonder if that's in the DSM-V?

I think I can safely say: No!

[charmedforsure]

Yikes. 

Even seeking out a third party in a Christian counselor can help... I say that even with reservations (since my own experience with Christian-based counseling was kind of a crock of shit compared to the secular therapy I've experienced in the mean time), but talking with someone who can help you process your mental health status in a safe environment (in Jessica's case, conservative Christianity) is always a good thing.

[SoybeanQueen]

9 hours ago, Kariina said:

One commenter refers to anxiety as "Worryitis." I wonder if that's in the DSM-V?

 

Once I had the worryitis so bad that I was nearly admitted to the hospital. My doctor had an injection that seemed to help, so I guess it must be in a medical book somewhere... 

[HereticHick]

It appears that the Boyer Sisters are losing 2 of their blog advertisers--one, Meadow and Faun, is leaving their blog, and the other, Chronically Vintage, is shutting down.

[BobTheWalrus]

On 08/03/2017 at 7:48 PM, SoybeanQueen said:

Agree with this 100%. I think it's a strange notion that one's religion is the only thing that prevents them from being a horrible person.

Personally, I don't believe that the Christian Bible says those who don't believe are horrible people. It says they won't be with God eternally, which I suppose is probably OK with them if they don't believe in Him. Certainly there are groups that call themselves Christian that categorize people into good and bad based on belief. I think that ruins the entire idea of loving one's neighbor.

I agree. I'm a Christian, and as I understand it, your faith or lack thereof isn't necessarily what makes you a good person. I think there are two aspects to this.  One is that faith can (and should, in my opinion, if you're doing it right!) make you a better person.  You don't become instantly perfect, but  I don't think you can really submit to God and not change. I think it was John Newton (writer of Amazing Grace) who said "I am not yet what I should be, but thank God I am no longer what I once was".  The second is that the whole point of the Christian faith is that no matter how good a person you are, you're not perfect.  Some people are much, much better than others, but even the best person in the world can't match up to God. Sin isn't about comparing ourselves to each other, because most people can find someone who is morally worse than they are. It's about comparing ourselves to God, and saying "yikes", and then accepting that rather than leave us distant, God came close to us and made a way to restore the relationship that was broken by our imperfection.

[formergothardite]

It really depends on what God you are comparing yourself to. A God who would send people to eternal torture for having a different belief system or no belief in religion, it would be easy to be better than that God because that is pretty cruel right there. Morally I'm better than that and I'm guessing so are most people. The God that many Christians believe who pretty much lets everyone into heaven and is all about peace, love and happiness no matter what you believe, yeah, compared to perpetual peace and love, I'm not always that great. 

[BobTheWalrus]

10 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

It really depends on what God you are comparing yourself to. A God who would send people to eternal torture for having a different belief system or no belief in religion, it would be easy to be better than that God because that is pretty cruel right there. Morally I'm better than that and I'm guessing so are most people. The God that many Christians believe who pretty much lets everyone into heaven and is all about peace, love and happiness no matter what you believe, yeah, compared to perpetual peace and love, I'm not always that great. 

Sure. Of course, the Christian belief is that God is absolutely righteous, just, holy, loving, merciful, pure, entirely good and the source of all goodness. Compared to Him, I freely admit I'm not that great. And as the Bible says, faith without works is dead, so just believing xyz doctrine doesn't' let you off being a jerk.  

[Cartmann99]

On 3/2/2017 at 0:39 PM, Kariina said:

Oh my god. Yes.

One of my first thoughts was "Wow, those are some pretty alternative haircuts for the Boyer crowd..." Not to mention the apparent guest dressed as Marilyn Monroe. Although Jessica did teach us all at one point that halter tops can totally be made modest...*

*http://boyersisters.com/2015/07/what-i-made-the-lady-marlowe-halter-top/

Gah! Look, either alter the pattern to fit your modesty requirements, wear a shrug or Bolero jacket to cover up the back, or choose something else. Wearing a camisole under the halter-top detracts from the look you are trying to portray.

I will never, ever understand the fascination with fundies wanting to wear things that are considered risqué in their world, and then making it look like the north end of a south bound mule by putting camisoles under it, or t-shirts over, etc...

 

 

 

[Kariina]

On 3/21/2017 at 4:14 PM, HereticHick said:

It appears that the Boyer Sisters are losing 2 of their blog advertisers--one, Meadow and Faun, is leaving their blog, and the other, Chronically Vintage, is shutting down.

My knee jerk reaction is "Good," Grumpy Cat style.

...There's more nuance to it, of course, and I don't really intend to sound malicious...CV shut down because her life was altered dramatically by the house fire, and I'm sorry for that. I don't know about what's up with Meadow and Fawn. But much of me is "glad" their blog is losing steam; on the one hand, they need to get more out in the real world and knock it off with the "hello dearies, look at me gazing wistfully, look at me twirling whimsically" nonsense.

On the other hand, for the Boyers and a lot of SAHDs, Internet presences might be major saving factors in their lives, and support and examples from others in a blog community can be beneficial. I don't actively wish to take that away from anyone. Jessica was pushed in the right direction by several commenters (some of us?) on her ongoing mental health issues, for instance, which I don't think her inner circle was going to do for her. Plus, if they really have read here and been given a few things to chew on, that's good.

I don't like the idea of advertisers funneling money into a blog that romanticizes restrictive, patriarchal, revisionist homeschooling, though. So.

15 hours ago, Cartmann99 said:

Gah! Look, either alter the pattern to fit your modesty requirements, wear a shrug or Bolero jacket to cover up the back, or choose something else. Wearing a camisole under the halter-top detracts from the look you are trying to portray.

I will never, ever understand the fascination with fundies wanting to wear things that are considered risqué in their world, and then making it look like the north end of a south bound mule by putting camisoles under it, or t-shirts over, etc...

Yeah. For Pete's sake, it just looks silly and quibbly to weave figure eights around what type of fitted tailoring or skin exposure is or isn't modest, and to preach and judge and yet shrink back into "But everyone has personal standards! It's not a salvation issue!" whenever that kind of exception comes up.

Tell us, O Wise Boyers, why is 2/3 of your back fine but some thigh isn't?