The Botkinettes have surfaced and they're giving relationship advice again!

[Stormy]

On 3/13/2017 at 1:58 AM, love2scrap said:

Elizabeth's new fb profile picture is....... odd.

 

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1074938869319003&set=a.100535086759391.599.100004086990661&type=3&theater

"You look like you're about to say something!"

[JemimaPuddle-Duck]

32 minutes ago, Stormy said:

"You look like you're about to say something!"

Lol, how do these people not realize it's a still from that video? It really is an odd choice for a profile pic. 

[CyborgKin]

Why did I read the FB comments on that profile pic?  How on earth can people determine that someone is "beautiful inside and out" from a photo???

On 11/03/2017 at 0:37 AM, Howl said:

@CyborgKin, Lifelaunch is a brilliant find!

Let's for a moment consider the irony of these men -- who don't have "job" jobs themselves -- sitting around and thinking up this straw man scenario: 

• 20 somethings failing to launch!
• gamers with $100,000 in school loans!
• living in parent's basements!
• zero direction in life (scary!) 

I don't know any 20 somethings like this, probably because we don't have basements in Texas.  

Anyway, LIFELAUNCH will protect you from this scary scenario that doesn't really exist, because the 5th - 19th centuries were wonderful for everyone! 

Noodle around long enough on the Lifelaunch site and you'll finally get to it: 

• Kickstart Challenge Only: $199
• Kickstart Challenge with 2 Coaching Sessions: $299
• Kickstart Challenge Study Group: $149/Student (discount applied at checkout for 3+ registrations)

The final irony is that many of the men putting together Lifelaunch!  are mentoring their sons in various forms of grifting, and not in learning an honest trade. 

Geoff seems to be latching on to the coattails of these movements (BeyondOffGrid!, Lifelaunch!) to relive the glory days  of VFM cash flow and to make (by association) The Western Conservatory relevant again.  He's not a principal in either, as far as I can tell. 

Final note: emphasis on college as being the only route to success has created shortages in the skilled trades -- slowing up construction in many areas of the country.  (from NPR!) 

Would you be so quick to say it was a brilliant find if it was your father who did the finding?  Somehow I've lived through eight sessions without being too obviously snarky.  Though I'm a couple of sessions behind on the assignments.  I haven't even looked at the questions for the latest session yet

Though I have to admit it is actually usefully thought provoking at times.  But if I imagine it being thrown at a fifteen year old kid by uber-controlling fundie parents... well there's a number of ways that could end badly.  I mean, look at the assignment questions for just the first session:

Quote

###Self Evaluation

#### What is the single most important lesson you learned? How can you apply it to your life? What is the necessary first step? (that's the first question for every session)

#### Identify the three strongest positive character traits in yourself

#### Identify the three strongest negative character traits in yourself

#### What needs to happen in your life to cultivate positive character traits and weed out negative ones?

#### What are you responsible to do?

###Life Application

#### Follow through on your most important lesson and take the first step in applying it to your life. (also the first application for every session)

#### Take the positive and negative character trains that you've identified and accept responsibility. Resolve before God that by His power you will be about striving to have a character like His. Write out a commitment starting with, "By God's grace, I resolve to..."

#### Go to your parents and ask them to read your commitment, pray with you, hold you accountable, help you find answers, and give you feedback on how you are progressing.

###Expert Assignment

#### Keep a weekly record of how each week has gone in the pursuit of godly character. Save this for your children.

There's also a session titled 'Girls vs. Boys' which as you would expect teaches that men are called to the roles of Dominion, Material Wellbeing of the Home, Spiritual Leader, Protector, and Shepherd, while women are to be a helpmeet for men - for their husband.  And then that's followed by an assignment to determine what God wants out of your life in the five areas that are listed for men, with no instructions on what girls should do to determine God's will in their lives.  Perhaps their supposed to figure out that they are supposed to write how they should help a husband in those five areas?

It later teachers that if you don't honour your parents - regardless of whether they are honourable - you will be under a curse: bad things such as bankruptcy and divorce will happen to you.

[louisa05]

My cousin's 25 year old son lives in his parents' basement and works part time at a grocery store. He has a college degree it took him six years to complete and has never applied for a job in his field. Of course the underlying issue is that his mommy never wants him to leave home. He has no friends, no social life outside of his parents and they treat him like he is 16 or less. His 22 year old sister is on track to end up exactly the same.

[crawfishgirl]

Since the Botkinettes love to dissect Disney princess movies, I keep waiting to see their analysis of the Beauty and the Beast movie.  Their reviews of Tangled and Brave can still make me laugh - they were so arrogant and so serious about an animated movie.  I hope that they don't bypass Beauty because it's not animated.

[Howl]

29 minutes ago, crawfishgirl said:

Since the Botkinettes love to dissect Disney princess movies, I keep waiting to see their analysis of the Beauty and the Beast movie.  Their reviews of Tangled and Brave can still make me laugh - they were so arrogant and so serious about an animated movie.  I hope that they don't bypass Beauty because it's not animated.

I've come across a few female fundy fb comments on Beauty and the Beast about "that scene".  Most of them missed it completely, even though they were on high alert to preserve moral purity/stay on moral high horse or something.  Go figure.  They loved the movie and recommended it. 

[refugee]

14 hours ago, CyborgKin said:

Why did I read the FB comments on that profile pic?  How on earth can people determine that someone is "beautiful inside and out" from a photo???

Would you be so quick to say it was a brilliant find if it was your father who did the finding?  Somehow I've lived through eight sessions without being too obviously snarky.  Though I'm a couple of sessions behind on the assignments.  I haven't even looked at the questions for the latest session yet

Though I have to admit it is actually usefully thought provoking at times.  But if I imagine it being thrown at a fifteen year old kid by uber-controlling fundie parents... well there's a number of ways that could end badly.  I mean, look at the assignment questions for just the first session:

There's also a session titled 'Girls vs. Boys' which as you would expect teaches that men are called to the roles of Dominion, Material Wellbeing of the Home, Spiritual Leader, Protector, and Shepherd, while women are to be a helpmeet for men - for their husband.  And then that's followed by an assignment to determine what God wants out of your life in the five areas that are listed for men, with no instructions on what girls should do to determine God's will in their lives.  Perhaps their supposed to figure out that they are supposed to write how they should help a husband in those five areas?

It later teachers that if you don't honour your parents - regardless of whether they are honourable - you will be under a curse: bad things such as bankruptcy and divorce will happen to you.

I really, really wanted to downvote this--and not because of the comment but because of the contents and the implications. In other words, I desperately want to downvote the Botkins themselves. Or the people who put up that site, if it wasn't the Botkins. I admit to coming back to this thread after awhile so I don't remember who put up the life lessons website that's under discussion. (This is a Botkins thread, so I'm assuming it's them, but it doesn't necessarily have to be.)

What a horrible load of guilt and obligation to lay on impressionable kids' shoulders, when they're too young to realize that *everyone* is human and fallible, not just themselves. As bad or worse than the Gothard lessons I've seen on the web here and there, like at Recovering Grace (and here, maybe?).

4 minutes ago, refugee said:

no instructions on what girls should do to determine God's will in their lives.  Perhaps their supposed to figure out that they are supposed to write how they should help a husband in those five areas?

(Actually it was CyborgKin who said what's in the quote box above)

I think you had it right. God has no instructions for girls or women, in their view. The girl's god-ordained instruction is to support her father's vision. Period. No matter what it may be, or what her desires (wait a minute, she's not supposed to have any dreams of her own, I almost forgot) or gifts may be. The woman's god-ordained instruction is to support her husband's vision.

Therefore, they don't even have to write out how they should help a husband in those five areas. Their job is to wait for their husbands to tell them what to do. 

God? Pffft! He's not on speaking terms with women, whose creation and salvation is derivative in any event. (God created man directly, and created woman *from* man, and to these yahoos, that makes all the difference.)

10 hours ago, Howl said:

I've come across a few female fundy fb comments on Beauty and the Beast about "that scene".  Most of them missed it completely, even though they were on high alert to preserve moral purity/stay on moral high horse or something.  Go figure.  They loved the movie and recommended it. 

What scene did they miss completely? Inquiring minds want to know.

[Howl]

1 hour ago, refugee said:

What scene did they miss completely? Inquiring minds want to know.

According to the New York Post 

Quote

LeFou (played by Josh Gad) and a gentleman danced together for several seconds and Gad made eyes at Gaston (Luke Evans) sporadically throughout the film. So what? That’s barely enough to fuel a conversation, let alone a solid debate. It’s like feverishly arguing which bottled water tastes best.

or the Daily Beast's take

Quote

Sure, LeFou offers a lingering gaze or two at Gaston, at one point even asking his strapping bud why he isn't happy with just the two of them palling around. At another point, he gets carried away in song and nuzzles himself into the crook of Gaston's neck, but the moment is too swept up in the musical comedy sequence to register as "gay." 

You begin to get annoyed, wondering if that's it—if a slightly homophobic joke about Gaston being uncomfortable with LeFou hugging him is the “moment.” With so many red herrings by that point, you're not going to be satisfied until you see LeFou deep-throating a candlestick. Certainly you won't be satisfied with the actual moment when it arrives.

It comes during the grand finale, in the ballroom dance at the end of the film when everyone is human again. 

It's one of those old-timey dances, where the men twirl the women and they change partners. In a roughly three-second cut, LeFou twirls his partner, but instead of another woman twirling into his personal space, it's a man. And they look at each other. And then the camera moves away.

That's it. 

But of course, fundys are verklempt about this. 

[CyborgKin]

@refugee Geoff Botkin is the speaker in one of the later sessions (I haven't seen it yet).  I think one of the main Kickstart people is Kevin Swanson since he gave the first four sessions.

I wish the Botkinettes would do something adventurous like recording reaction videos to Supergirl.  But it would be too much for them to handle.  It has overt feminism and women kissing!  And most of the characters' fathers are either dead or missing.  Somehow the characters manage to do alright without  

[Jencendiary]

You don't think these people so obsessed with biological family would know how to deal with the concept of families of choice, though.

[refugee]

6 hours ago, Jencendiary said:

You don't think these people so obsessed with biological family would know how to deal with the concept of families of choice, though.

Good point. I think they're so practiced in turning absurdities into "this is the *only* biblical way of living" that many of them wouldn't recognize reality if it walked up and threw a cream pie in their face. So to speak.

14 hours ago, Howl said:

According to the New York Post 

or the Daily Beast's take

But of course, fundys are verklempt about this. 

It may or may not be ironic, but I totally missed that bit in the dancing scene at the end. I must have looked away from the screen.

I asked about "that scene" because I was wondering which, of several, in the film the fundies might be complaining about.

Was it when the Wardrobe defended herself against the three invaders, and two of them ran off screaming, and the third just stood there with a big grin on his face? (And if I'm remembering right, she called a blessing after him as he departed... something about going out and enjoying his life...)

Was it when Gaston asked LeFou why he'd never married? (I didn't hear LeFou's answer--he mumbled something, but I didn't catch it, but a few people laughed at whatever it was. What was it?)

Was it LeFou's attitude towards Gaston in most of the movie? Naw, that couldn't be it. I could see fundies explaining that one away as hero-worship on LeFou's part. Just like everyone was tacitly encouraged to act towards DPIAT and other "big names" at homeschool conferences and VF events.

[refugee]

8 hours ago, CyborgKin said:

I wish the Botkinettes would do something adventurous like recording reaction videos to Supergirl.  But it would be too much for them to handle.  It has overt feminism and women kissing!  And most of the characters' fathers are either dead or missing.  Somehow the characters manage to do alright without

Do you think Dear Father would allow them to watch that movie? Even for scholarly purposes, to add to the growing body of scholarly materials at the Western Conservatory website?

[Jasmar]

On 3/29/2017 at 2:34 AM, CyborgKin said:

It later teachers that if you don't honour your parents - regardless of whether they are honourable - you will be under a curse: bad things such as bankruptcy and divorce will happen to you.

OMG, that explains everything! I hung up on my drunk-dialing mother last night, and I am divorced and heading into bankruptcy! See, Geoff does have all the answers.

 

ETA, back on topic and less all about me...My son turned fifteen yesterday. The thought of loading that crap on him like a ten-ton weight on his shoulders is repulsive to me. There is no way to sustain a relationship with God, if that's the aim, by having to carry burdens like that. It will implode, and people will be hurt.

[acheronbeach]

What, what, what?  Click on About on Lifelaunch, and this is what the "Director" Daniel Craig says was one of his first important lessons:

Quote

“Swallow, don’t spit.”

http://www.lifelaunch.com/a-letter-from-the-director/#my-first-mentorship

(Sorry if someone else already posted, I couldn't see it in the thread)

[smittykins]

"Swallow, don't spit."

I assume he means "eat it even if you hate it," but...

[Jellybean]

Or 'deal hygienically with your own saliva'?

[refugee]

1 hour ago, acheronbeach said:

What, what, what?  Click on About on Lifelaunch, and this is what the "Director" Daniel Craig says was one of his first important lessons:

http://www.lifelaunch.com/a-letter-from-the-director/#my-first-mentorship

(Sorry if someone else already posted, I couldn't see it in the thread)

Okay... so would this be one of those unintentional double entendres mentioned regarding DPIAT somewhere, or would it perhaps be one of the speculated intentional "unintentional" double entendres (also mentioned with regard to DPIAT).

Clarifying: I know this is Daniel Craig, not DPIAT, but didn't know how to make it clear that I was referring to some discussion elsewhere and extending the concept to Craig.

1 hour ago, smittykins said:

"Swallow, don't spit."

I assume he means "eat it even if you hate it," but...

Hmmm. I expect there's an exception for tobacco juice...

[CyborgKin]

14 hours ago, refugee said:

Do you think Dear Father would allow them to watch that movie? Even for scholarly purposes, to add to the growing body of scholarly materials at the Western Conservatory website?

I mean the TV show.  But no, of course not!  Not in a billion years.

Oh and since it's been mentioned again, here's another sample from Kickstart:

 

Spoiler

Quote

###MyKickstart Lap 3

Do you want to be successful? Plan it now. The next several Laps have lots of planning. You're not intended to do it on your own. Seek the Lord through prayer and study of His Word, seek wisdom and advice from your parents (the more you do with your parents, the better), seek wisdom from Godly men in your community. (but not the women?)

 

####3.1 Complete worksheet 3.1 based on the brainstorm questions provided below.

####Dominion

Read Nehemiah 1:1-11 and consider the example of Nehemiah Why was he so grieved to hear about the walls of Jerusalem?

Nehemiah cared deeply about the Kingdom of God (of which the city of Jerusalem was a physical manifestation). Because he had a heard to seek God's Kingdom first, God have him a special burden to bring about the restoration of Jerusalem's walls. Are you seeking God's kingdom first, and if so, has God given you a burden for any ways in which you can take dominion and "build up the walls" of His kingdom?

- What walls need to be built up in my life?

- Self-control? Galatians 5:23; Proverbs 16:32, Proverbs 25:28

- Personal discipines?

- Education?

- What walls need to be built up in my family?

- Relationships?

- Daily chores?

- Projects around the house?

- What walls need to be built up in my church?

- Needy widows or orphans?

- Discipling and evangelising others?

- Serving others?

- What walls need to be built up in my community and culture?

- Arts?

- Sciences?

- Obedience to God's law?

- Discipling and evangelising others?

 

####Provider

As we have learned, the family is the primary institution in which you are to fulfill your calling as a provider. But even though you may not be married yet, it is essential that you set goals and begin to move in a direction now that will allow you to fulfill this duty once you do establish your own family. In light of this, consider the following questions:

- When would I like to be ready to start a family?

- What will the material needs of my family be, and how much will they cost? Hint: ask your dad

- In order to provide for these needs, how much money would I like to have saved by the time I get married?

- How much money does that mean I will need to save each year between now and the time I get married?

- How much money does that mean I will need to save in the next five years?

- What do I need to be doing now in order to accomplish that goal?

 

####Spiritual Leader

Are you a spiritual leader or a spiritual laggard? ... You will never be able to lead others spiritually if you are not spiritually engaged, yourself - right now.

- Am I reading God's Word daily? Psalm 119:97

- Am I a man of prayer? 1 Timothy 2:8

- Am I hiding God' word in my heart? Psalm 119:11

- Am I consistently engaged in corporate worship in my family and church?

- Do I instigate discussions on spiritual things with others in my church or family?

- What goals can I set for developing others in these areas?

 

####Protector

If you approached a father about marrying his daughter, would he look at you and be assured of your ability to protect his daughter and future grandchildren? Would he say, "I can tell by the way you carry yourself, the deference you show the the woman [sic] around you, and your display of confidence in the Lord that you will more than able to protect my precious daughter?

- In what ways will I need to protect others physically, and am I prepared to do so?

- In what ways will I need to protect others spirtually, and am I prepared to do so?

- In what ways will I need to protect others emotionally, and am I prepared to do so?

- Will God hear my prayers as the prayers of a righteous man, or will he disregard them as the prayers of a wicked man?

- What goals can I set for developing in each of these areas?

- What goals can I set for actual protection of others in my life right now?

 

####Shepherd

The role of Shepherd is at the very heard of God's calling for every young man. While many young men are contend to remain wayward sheep, God is calling you to be the nurturer and guide of other sheep - right now! In the future, God will likely call you to fulfill the most important shepherding position as a father of children, and He man even call you to be a shepherd in the church of God. However, even now, God has put sheep in your life which you can and must disciple and shepherd in His ways. If you constantly neglect this responsibility in the present, you will never be able to fulfill it in the future.

- How does God want me to disciple my siblings and other young men in my church? 1 Timothy 4:12, TItus 2

- How will God want me to disciple my future wife? Ephesians 5:25-33

- How will God want me to disciple my future children? Deuteronomy 6:6-9, Ephesians 6:4

- How does God want me to disciple the nations? Matthew 28:18-20

- How may God want me to be a shepherd and elder in the Church of Jesus Christ? Titus 3:1-7

- What spiritual disciplines and abilities will be required to fulfill all of these discipleship roles?

- What goals can I set for developing as a shepherd of others?

- What goals can I set for the actual discipleship and shepherding of others in my life right now?

 

####Worksheet 3.1 - The Next 5 years

Date:

Instructions: This is a very important worksheet and may take some time to complete. We have provided the list of brainstorming questions above to help you establish three, five-year goals in each of the following areas. List them in the spaces provided below.

- Dominion

- 1

- 2

- 3

- Provider

- 1

- 2

- 3

- Spiritual Leader

- 1

- 2

- 3

- Protector

- 1

- 2

- 3

- Shepherd

- 1

- 2

- 3

 

 

*sigh*

[crawfishgirl]

On 3/30/2017 at 2:39 AM, CyborgKin said:

@refugee Geoff Botkin is the speaker in one of the later sessions (I haven't seen it yet).  I think one of the main Kickstart people is Kevin Swanson since he gave the first four sessions.

I wish the Botkinettes would do something adventurous like recording reaction videos to Supergirl.  But it would be too much for them to handle.  It has overt feminism and women kissing!  And most of the characters' fathers are either dead or missing.  Somehow the characters manage to do alright without  

I encouraged my girls to watch Supergirl when it first premiered because my husband and I like them to be exposed to strong female characters, and they still watch it.  I'm glad that there is a female superhero.  

Regarding the overreaction to the Beauty and the Beast gay character and some parents thinking they would need to spend hours explaining it - when my kids were small, there was a gay character on a tv show.  All I said was "most people prefer romance with the opposite gender, but some prefer their same gender, and that's ok."  It took all of 10 seconds, and there wasn't a problem.  Kids are accepting, unless they've been taught to hate.  

[katilac]

On 3/30/2017 at 2:20 PM, smittykins said:

"Swallow, don't spit."

I assume he means "eat it even if you hate it," but...

"Suck don't bite" is also solid relationship advice. 

[RosyDaisy]

"Swallow, don't spit."
:laughing-rolling:
I assume he means "eat it even if you hate it," but...

Yeah, the "but" is what pops. into my mind, not eating food.[emoji6]

[BiblebeltCath]

On 3/30/2017 at 10:50 AM, refugee said:

Was it when Gaston asked LeFou why he'd never married? (I didn't hear LeFou's answer--he mumbled something, but I didn't catch it, but a few people laughed at whatever it was. What was it?)

Spoiler

He said people say he's too clingy, but he doesn't see it. While practically sitting in Gaston's lap, being clingy!

 

I think the "moments" in this movie were the kind of thing that adults see, but they fly over kids' heads.

[Flossie]

40 minutes ago, BiblebeltCath said:

I think the "moments" in this movie were the kind of thing that adults see, but they fly over kids' heads.

That happens sometimes.  Anyone remember Rugrats?  It's an old Nickelodean cartoon about a group of babies in a playgroup that talk to each other and try to figure out the world, while the adults around them only hear their words as normal baby babbling.  Anyway, 2 year old Chuckie becomes obsessed with a plastic blow up clown, Boppo, that alway rights itself after he punches it.  He just punches it over and over and laughs each time Boppo rights himself, while Chuckie's widowed dad slowly starts to go insane from the constant punching and laughing.  Chuckie's little friends become worried when he ignores them because he won't stop playing with Bobbo.  18 month old Phil says "A kid his age should be outside playing with his friends, not sitting alone in his room bopping his Boppo."  That show had several adult jokes and situations that my kids never picked up on.

[refugee]

8 minutes ago, Flossie said:

That happens sometimes.  Anyone remember Rugrats?  It's an old Nickelodean cartoon about a group of babies in a playgroup that talk to each other and try to figure out the world, while the adults around them only hear their words as normal baby babbling.  Anyway, 2 year old Chuckie becomes obsessed with a plastic blow up clown, Boppo, that alway rights itself after he punches it.  He just punches it over and over and laughs each time Boppo rights himself, while Chuckie's widowed dad slowly starts to go insane from the constant punching and laughing.  Chuckie's little friends become worried when he ignores them because he won't stop playing with Bobbo.  18 month old Phil says "A kid his age should be outside playing with his friends, not sitting alone in his room bopping his Boppo."  That show had several adult jokes and situations that my kids never picked up on.

My mom used to laugh hysterically at the Rocky and Bullwinkle show.

[Grimalkin]