The Botkinettes have surfaced and they're giving relationship advice again!

[Petronella]

Does anyone know why they call it "Western Conservatory"?

It sounds to me like they just wanted something vaguely pompous, but perhaps there's a more specific explanation...

[Howl]

6 hours ago, Petronella said:

Does anyone know why they call it "Western Conservatory"?

It sounds to me like they just wanted something vaguely pompous, but perhaps there's a more specific explanation...

Pretentious would be the right word.  Geoff, besides being a noted duck biologist, believes that he is the repository and savior of Western culture and an op-ed heavy weight. 

"Based in central Tennessee, we produce resources about history, art, culture, home education, discipleship, relationships, and vibrant family life..."

Katie Botkins, Geoff Botkin's niece and first cousin to the Botkinettes, has some excellent commentary on the Botkins' books.  She doesn't dissect their writing as much as deliver a tasty little fillet.  Enjoy. 

It might be a little bit complicated

Navigating history: Dominion worldview and Christian jihad

 

[Red Hair, Black Dress]

Does King Geoff still work as a duck biologist or does he live off his sons and AS & E?

[Palimpsest]

57 minutes ago, Red Hair, Black Dress said:

Does King Geoff still work as a duck biologist or does he live off his sons and AS & E?

Duck biologist - Geoff Botkin did once list that on his bio to our great delight.  He has since deleted it.

Geoff Botkin, poseur and psuedo-intellectual, is an expert in everything he has ever seen, done, or read a book about.  He probably once saw a duck land on a pond and "Duck biologist" made it onto the resume.  He is an odd duck himself.  

He has slowed down a lot recently and I have no idea where his money came from originally.  @Marian the Librarian can you help here.

Perhaps he inherited from his "Marxist" parents.  They weren't Marxist at all but pretty mainstream Christian, according to his niece.  He had enough to scarper off to New Zealand and set up the Seven Arrows Ranch, newspaper, and film studio years ago.  That went bust though.  I don't know how he really supported the family over time.

I suppose he scooped a lot of cash from VFM, and writing, lecturing, films, videos, and tours of Europe, have netted him a nest egg.  Homeschooling and the Visionary Daughters were at the center of his ministry though.  The Western Conservatory rambling doesn't look like a money maker.

I'm not sure how the adult sons are going to be able to support their growing families, let alone Geoff, Victoria, and AS and E, in the future.  Unless T-Rex Arms is doing really well.

[Columbia]

Apparently he did have a project last year. I only just found this, and didn't really recognize any of the other names associated. Interestingly, there's no mention of Christianity, or "taking dominion" (classic drinking game phrase when listening to anything the Botkins put out.) I wonder if he's trying to appeal to the prepper crowd in the hopes of drawing them into Western Conservatory. I, too, wonder where that family gets their money. 

https://beyondoffgrid.com/experts/geoffrey-botkin/

 

 

[Howl]

44 minutes ago, Columbia said:

I, too, wonder where that family gets their money. 

It could be from you, if you want to become one of the Beyond Off Grid supporters.  

Spoiler

 

Join Our Supporter Team and Get Some Great Rewards!

This project is unique. Not just a documentary film. Far more than just a blog and educational website. We’re challenging the modern paradigm, inspiring people to reduce their dependence on the modern system, and equipping them to take steps to seek true freedom by returning to the old paths.
The documentary film will be a valuable tool for you to challenge the thinking of your friends and family, and inspire others to join in this journey. Our supporters have access to unique rewards – Please consider supporting the project with a generous donation.

Film Completion Fundraiser

We’re currently running a film launch fundraiser.  We need about $8,500 to cover expenses for DVD production, website costs, and film release marketing expenses.

 

Geoff is waiting to hear from you and are wondering why you haven't asked your headship to send him $$$$$.  Because he is so insanely awesome (shown here, contemplating culture-change heavy lifting) he should get money, but what kind of sorry outfit needs to borrow $8,500 bucks?

Quote

Geoff is currently the Senior Consultant and board member for the Western Conservatory of Arts and Sciences, a worldview think tank and cultural depository, producing films and materials that help families and culture changers develop long-reach visions. He is also an advisor to the humanitarian agency Strategic Initiatives and Interdiction Group. 

This sounds serious, until you realize that the Western Conservatory is Geoff, his wife, his kids and their spouses. 

And this is a nothing phrase:  develop long-reach visions

I went through several "visioning" processes at my workplace before retirement.   No, just no, just hell no. 

And here's another thought.  The documentary is just a way to get you to buying companion CDs and other merch. 

[Columbia]

54 minutes ago, Howl said:

We’re challenging the modern paradigm, inspiring people to reduce their dependence on the modern system, and equipping them to take steps to seek true freedom by returning to the old paths.

Interestingly, a Christian would tell you that true freedom can only be found in Christ, not in any particular lifestyle or worldview. This leads me to wonder if there is some prostelytizing in the video, or if Geoff really is trying to rope in non-believers to support him and his unmarried daughters. 

[nickelodeon]

Sounds like the Botkins are getting deep into the doomsday prepper scene. Maybe that explains their silence lately: they've been in a bunker. Wasn't there a Botkinette lecture a year or two back that was all about "being sturdy pioneer women so you can survive in the post-apocalyptic wasteland"?

[Palimpsest]

There is something very strange about that Beyond Off the Grid site.

It seems to depend entirely on internet access - check out the intern opportunities.  The "hands on" experience is only possible remotely and they need reliable Internet access.  And enthusiasm, yada yada.

Eh, if people want to go survivalist, off the grid, and reduce their "dependence on the modern system and seek true freedom by going back to the old paths of productive households and local community interdependence"  they had better learn to do without the internet.  

When the Apocalypse strikes it will probably knock out the Internet first.

Just saying.

[Granwych]

10 hours ago, Red Hair, Black Dress said:

Does King Geoff still work as a duck biologist or does he live off his sons and AS & E?

He's trying to get the job titled "Donald Duck's Man."  Whatever that entails, I dunno.

[Howl]

If anyone can stand to watch the movie, let us know what he's up to. 

And the Beyond Off Grid online summit?  Trust cynical old me, this is ground that has already been plowed.  Your local county extension agent could get you going, after you read 5 Acres and Independence (1973), and get your subscription and back issues of Mother Earth News (began publication in 1970).

beyondoffgrid.com/summit-online-training-course/

 

[Petrel]

Duck biologist is no occupation for a Christian.  Ducks are widely known for their licentiousness.  

The following link is intended only for spiritually mature, married Christians.  Women, please read this only with the approval of your headship.  Men, have a spiritual mentor you can contact in case Satan uses your reading this article as an opportunity to engage you in spiritual warfare or build a gazebo in your heart:  

Probably not safe for work??

I am gravely concerned about the spiritual welfare of the Botkins.  One can only hope they have only begun to be led astray by the wiles of the Devil and are unaware of male ducks' shocking proclivities, and, even, anatomy.  

[Marian the Librarian]

10 hours ago, Palimpsest said:

Duck biologist - Geoff Botkin did once list that on his bio to our great delight.  He has since deleted it.

Geoff Botkin, poseur and psuedo-intellectual, is an expert in everything he has ever seen, done, or read a book about.  He probably once saw a duck land on a pond and "Duck biologist" made it onto the resume.  He is an odd duck himself.  

He has slowed down a lot recently and I have no idea where his money came from originally.  @Marian the Librarian can you help here.

Perhaps he inherited from his "Marxist" parents.  They weren't Marxist at all but pretty mainstream Christian, according to his niece.  He had enough to scarper off to New Zealand and set up the Seven Arrows Ranch, newspaper, and film studio years ago.  That went bust though.  I don't know how he really supported the family over time.

I suppose he scooped a lot of cash from VFM, and writing, lecturing, films, videos, and tours of Europe, have netted him a nest egg.  Homeschooling and the Visionary Daughters were at the center of his ministry though.  The Western Conservatory rambling doesn't look like a money maker.

I'm not sure how the adult sons are going to be able to support their growing families, let alone Geoff, Victoria, and AS and E, in the future.  Unless T-Rex Arms is doing really well.

Where Geoff's money came from originally? I wish I knew! I do remember reading here on FJ, some time ago, that oldest son Isaac would periodically earn a bunch o' money working on some film project or other, and the entire family would live off of that until it ran out - then lather, rinse, repeat. That was before Isaac got married, though - I have no idea how they're all surviving these days. But perhaps the firearm-accoutrements biz is doing really well. 

ETA: Re: Beyond Off-Grid's Summit Training course description - "a TOTALLY UNIQUE training program" - unique doesn't need a qualifier, folks. Unique is unique. It's not somewhat unique, very unique, or even a little bit unique. (This is one of those things that makes me want to chew a bowl of carpet tacks.  )

[Howl]

@Columbia, Beyond Off Grid is such an amazing find and I find myself fascinated by it, and the fact that Geoff Botkin is involved but it doesn't have an overtly religious emphasis.  How did you come across this?

Some thoughts: 

Geoff does not look like a man who likes to get out of his study to get his hands dirty -- I do believe he adores pondering and pontificating about the agrarian lifestyle, though.  

Beyond Off Grid obviously requires hard manual labor and a lot of sweat.  Beyond Off Grid's Summit Training site shows tons of women.  In Botworld, this would translate to subservient women adoring their headships, and working very, very hard to keep things afloat on the homestead, while keeping sweet no matter what. In addition to running the house, cooking, servicing the headship, bearing and raising his children, there will be chickens, rabbits, pigs, DUCKS!, a huge garden, an orchard, canning, milking (cows! goats!). There doesn't seem to be much emphasis on slaughtering and butchering on Beyond Off Grid, though, which is an integral part of farm life. 

This could be a fantastic and enriching life, if it is what one wants and chooses. Rural life and the economy of the family farm were the foundation of our country for a long period of our nation's history.  However, many women put that life in the rear view mirror for a good reason.  

Also, someone please clarify: 

1. Is Geoff a native of New Zealand or was he born in the US?  

2. I know he is based in Tennessee, but does he currently live on a farm/family compound with acreage? Have they ever discussed even gardening?  For example, the Scottie Brown women raise milk cows and sell yogurt and such.  The Botkins? Not so much. 

Beyond Off Grid on Facebook: facebook.com/BeyondOffGrid/

Meh. 

[Palimpsest]

9 minutes ago, Howl said:

Is Geoff a native of New Zealand or was he born in the US?  

He is American but has dual citizenship with New Zealand.

IIRC, Geoff Botkin got involved with Jim McCotter as college student back in the 60s or 70s.  I can't remember whether he graduated.  I think his marriage to Victoria was arranged by McCotter.  

McCotter left the Great Commission group he started for some reason (he may have been ousted) and he and Geoff Botkin moved to New Zealand in the 1990s.  They owned newspaper, a TV station and a magazine but the whole enterprise went south (so to speak).

So Geoff and family moved back to the US and turned up schmoozing with VF - early 2000s, I think. 

All dates approximate.   

He is living in a rural area at the moment.  I get the feeling (no proof) that he isn't very well.  

[Howl]

23 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

IIRC, Geoff Botkin got involved with Jim McCotter as college student back in the 60s or 70s.

Thanks for the background.  McCotter is a rabbit hole unto himself. 

Wiki on Jim Cotter here

 

[Palimpsest]

11 minutes ago, Howl said:

Thanks for the background.  McCotter is a rabbit hole unto himself. 

Wiki on Jim Cotter here

 

He is indeed.  I don't know why Botkin split with McCotter in the end, but McCotter was very culty in the 70s and preyed on college students.  He can deny it all he wants.

[JemimaPuddle-Duck]

@Howl they do live on quite a bit of acreage. I know that in the past they have had cows and a large garden, and though I'm not certain they still do I would assume so. 

[formergothardite]

Did none of the fundie followers question him being a duck biologist? That is just such an odd thing to throw out there. 

[Red Hair, Black Dress]

What is with these patriarchal, headship men who don't (or won't) work?   I thought the whole point of the SAHM/ SAHD movement was that the patriarch went out and worked hard to provide.

Rick Arndt has lived off his adult unmarried sons for years,
Steve Maxwell once had a business, but it doesn't seem to make any money and he's probably living off his sons.
KIng Geoff seems to be living off his sons and AS & E.
Who knows what DPIAT lives off.
Scottie Brown seems to at least partially live off his wife/daughter's dairy business.
Jim Bob Duggar and Gil Bates are living off TLC.

There are many, many more,.

If fundies are going to mandate that men and men alone can have jobs and at the same time insist that women must say home, not get an education, keep sweet, and only be wives and mothers -- then they should practice what they preach. At best they seems to be hypocrites, at worst grifters and leeches.
 

[formergothardite]

2 minutes ago, Red Hair, Black Dress said:

Gil Bates

He also lived off his kids. Lawson used the money he earned caring for people's yards to purchase food for the family and gave "loans" to Gil and Kelly. 

John Shrader doesn't live off his kids, but he too doesn't work, yet expects people to give him money to buy whatever he desires. 

I think they are hypocrites, grfiters and leeches. 

[Palimpsest]

7 hours ago, Red Hair, Black Dress said:

Steve Maxwell once had a business, but it doesn't seem to make any money and he's probably living off his sons.

Steve Maxwell is as shrewd as the day is long and twice as cheap.  We should give him his due here.  He is retirement age now but I don't think he is living off his sons but has investments.

He is a veteran - and presumably has benefits.

He has social security because he used to work as an electrical engineer for a big corporation (wish I could remember which one).  He quit (he says) because of Teri's depression.  Or he was managed out with a big settlement because he refused to work with women (my theory).  And he made wise investments.

He successfully marked his crap for years to naive Fundies.  I'm sure he has savings.

7 hours ago, Red Hair, Black Dress said:

Who knows what DPIAT lives off.

He's shrewd as hell too.  His wits, the money he managed to squirrel away from VFM, and marketing his production skills.  Not his JD, that's for sure.

[Jug Band Baby]

Do fundies bequeath assets to daughter?  At the rate the Botkinettes are going, they'll be single and without careers when their parents die.  Will Ma and Pa leave assets to them, or do assets go to the boys?  If to the boys, are the boys ready and willing to take over the financial support of their sisters?  If they aren't alive, will their kids take in their old aunts?  Aside from a vague "their families will take care of them," what is the plan for the support of old spinsters?

[Howl]

23 hours ago, Petrel said:

Duck biologist is no occupation for a Christian.  Ducks are widely known for their licentiousness.  

The following link is intended only for spiritually mature, married Christians.  Women, please read this only with the approval of your headship.  Men, have a spiritual mentor you can contact in case Satan uses your reading this article as an opportunity to engage you in spiritual warfare or build a gazebo in your heart:  

Probably not safe for work??

I am gravely concerned about the spiritual welfare of the Botkins.  One can only hope they have only begun to be led astray by the wiles of the Devil and are unaware of male ducks' shocking proclivities, and, even, anatomy.  

At a loss for words here, not even a quack.  I'll never look at ducks the same way again.  Also, the Arndts have been looking at ducks on their pond, WITH BINOCULARS.  This no longer seems like an innocent activity. 

[GenerationCedarchip]

16 minutes ago, Jug Band Baby said:

Do fundies bequeath assets to daughter?  At the rate the Botkinettes are going, they'll be single and without careers when their parents die.  Will Ma and Pa leave assets to them, or do assets go to the boys?  If to the boys, are the boys ready and willing to take over the financial support of their sisters?  If they aren't alive, will their kids take in their old aunts?  Aside from a vague "their families will take care of them," what is the plan for the support of old spinsters?

It varies a lot by family. I know of some families who leave assets (or at least the home) to the single daughter so that she has a place to live when they're gone. I've seen others leave assets to their unmarried daughters but they have them managed in trust. And some divide the assets evenly between all of their children, both sons and daughters. I know of 1 family who left everything outright to a son expecting he'd care for his sisters(which he did - to a point.) There's a lot of variation - at least in reformed circles.