Election Results 2016, Part 3

[AlwaysExcited]

Quote

It’s as though we’re talking about a child who managed to get through recess at the day care without punching any of the other children. Except this child is about to become the most powerful human being on Earth.

This is the best thing I have read in days. 

[GreyhoundFan]

2 hours ago, AlwaysExcited said:

This is the best thing I have read in days. 

I loved it too. The thing that is so pitiful is that the bar has been set so low that the fact he made it all the way through an interview without throwing a tantrum is actually news.  I have written to a couple of media outlets I frequent to encourage them to spend less time of fluff pieces about Melania and the kids and more on things like the non-release of tax returns, the upcoming Drumpf University trial, and assorted other actual news items.

 

[RainbowSky]

The Secret Service sticks around. My first defense of any of this, really, but maybe they figured all of those people just have jobs and keep them no matter who the new boss is like normal people? Like...your manager/supervisor/whatever quits or gets promoted and you still have your job. The entire office or store or wherever doesn't get replaced, too.  Out of it all, I think that might be the least stupid thing yet  

[HeathenBlondie]

Sounds like that moron Kellyanne is threatening Harry Reid with "be very careful." What the hell are they going to do to those of us who criticize and speak out against Trump? Have us arrested? Call us traitors because we dare criticize? It was the same damn thing when Bush 2.0 was President.

These people piss me off.

[PreciousPantsofDoom]

18 hours ago, SilverBeach said:

You are missing that people are fucking pissed that a sociopath was given the election by the EC when the people wanted otherwise. For the second time (Al Gore won the popular vote in 2000) in recent history. Two republicans. Hmmmm, something really stinks here.

Trump is receiving the vitriol that he gave. I feel about him the same way his supporters felt about Obama, except my revulsion is not based on race. If I was younger I would be out there too. Protesters are giving a vote of no confidence to this whole mess. Besides, taking it to the streets is a time honored  American tradition. Do you kind of get it now?

Besides, Drumpf himself said the system was rigged.

@SilverBeach thanks for trying to answer my question, although I have to say I'm still perplexed.  I get that people are pissed.  I get that they are doing the equivalent of rending their clothes and tearing their hair in a public display of anger and grief over what has happened.  That part of things makes sense to me.  I also get that protests have been a big part of change in the US (in thinking of the Civil rights movement among others) but those changes were not driven by protests alone.  Organizations were formed.  Plans were made.  Legal challenges of all kinds were mounted. It was a lot of hard work and continual pressure by many people.  Protests were only one of the many tools used.

From the outside, these current protests  look like something  in danger of getting stuck in  a disorganized mess of angry people (not to mention something that is easy for the anarchist riot people to coopt.) I keep waiting for someone to step up and harness this energy in a more constructive way. 

 Am I just being too impatient here? 

 

As far as changing the Electoral College system goes, while I am sympathetic with the frustration with it, finding something that works better is remarkably difficult.  We have a slightly different system in Canada that is meant to try and ensure that all of our regions are fairly represented.  We still have ended up with the odd government that reaches power despite not winning the popular vote.  It sucks and always sparks demands for reform.  So far nobody has been able to persuade the voters into going for any number of other systems that have been proposed. 

 

[SilverBeach]

@PreciousPantsofDoom, yes in my opinion you are being impatient. I am black and experienced the civil rights era and civil disobedience was huge. Visibility is the point.

Either the US is a democracy with majority rule, all the time, or it isn't. Just because the EC has been around for a couple of hundred years doesn't mean it has to stay around. If it mimics the popular vote most of the time, and people are too afraid to use it to get rid of the unfit, then what's the point? 

There's trouble in the republic.

[GreyhoundFan]

30 minutes ago, RainbowSky said:

The Secret Service sticks around. My first defense of any of this, really, but maybe they figured all of those people just have jobs and keep them no matter who the new boss is like normal people? Like...your manager/supervisor/whatever quits or gets promoted and you still have your job. The entire office or store or wherever doesn't get replaced, too.  Out of it all, I think that might be the least stupid thing yet  

Yes, career civil servants stick around, but the political appointees, of which there are approximately 4000, do not.

[JoyfulSel]

7 minutes ago, SilverBeach said:

@PreciousPantsofDoom, yes in my opinion you are being impatient. I am black and experienced the civil rights era and civil disobedience was huge. Visibility is the point.

Either the US is a democracy with majority rule, all the time, or it isn't. Just because the EC has been around for a couple of hundred years doesn't mean it has to stay around. If it mimics the popular vote most of the time, and people are too afraid to use it to get rid of the unfit, then what's the point? 

There's trouble in the republic.

Re: bolded is what has been something important for me to think about following this election - I have seen many people say that we have to accept it all and move forward, etc. because this is how the U.S. has always decided political elections and what not. I don't understand why it can't change. It's as if people think because an institution has been a certain way for a long time, it can't be fixed or changed or even, gasp, removed! There are quite a lot of people out there who think we've "evolved" enough and things don't really need to be changed. It's odd. Political parties have come and gone, economical institutions have changed - the EC can change too!

[Childless]

1 hour ago, PreciousPantsofDoom said:

@SilverBeach thanks for trying to answer my question, although I have to say I'm still perplexed.  I get that people are pissed.  I get that they are doing the equivalent of rending their clothes and tearing their hair in a public display of anger and grief over what has happened.  That part of things makes sense to me.  I also get that protests have been a big part of change in the US (in thinking of the Civil rights movement among others) but those changes were not driven by protests alone.  Organizations were formed.  Plans were made.  Legal challenges of all kinds were mounted. It was a lot of hard work and continual pressure by many people.  Protests were only one of the many tools used.

From the outside, these current protests  look like something  in danger of getting stuck in  a disorganized mess of angry people (not to mention something that is easy for the anarchist riot people to coopt.) I keep waiting for someone to step up and harness this energy in a more constructive way. 

 Am I just being too impatient here? 

 

As far as changing the Electoral College system goes, while I am sympathetic with the frustration with it, finding something that works better is remarkably difficult.  We have a slightly different system in Canada that is meant to try and ensure that all of our regions are fairly represented.  We still have ended up with the odd government that reaches power despite not winning the popular vote.  It sucks and always sparks demands for reform.  So far nobody has been able to persuade the voters into going for any number of other systems that have been proposed. 

 

I agree that you are being impatient.  People learn about Rosa Parks and think she sat in the front of the bus and shortly thereafter blacks no longer sat at the back of the bus.  The bus boycott went on for a year before the whites finally folded.  Civil change takes time and effort.  It always starts with protests, but much more effort is expended after that before a reward is seen.  Give it some time.

Side Note:  Every time I think about the bus boycott I'm floored by the discipline and dedication that took.  An entire year of not only being inconvenienced, but also ridiculed and sometimes even assaulted and they never gave even an inch.  It was beyond impressive.  I'm not sure today's generations have the patience and fortitude to pull that off.

[Childless]

I'm not at all surprised he didn't have a clue as to what the president actually does.  The entire election was a game to him.  He wanted to beat everyone else and to brag about how he was the best.  Now every time I see him, he looks terrified.  It's starting to sink in that he's actually going to have to do this job and it's an incredibly hard job to do.  I have a feeling it's more work than he's done in his entire 70 years on this planet and he's worried about what he's gotten himself into.  He promised to shake up the establishment and drain the swamp but he's now realizing he's going to need the help of those insiders to survive.  

The fact that he's running scared gives me at least a little joy.  He deserves the fear and uncertainty.  Couldn't have happened to a better guy. 

[OldFadedStar]

To those who wish to see the Electoral College change.. what are your thoughts on how it should change?

I don't agree with strictly going with a popular vote because major urban centers would rule everything. Life is a lot different in rural areas then they are in the cities. How would it be fair for those in the rural areas? There is already this sentiment in Illinois. Chicago rules the entire state and is hated by most of southern illinois due to it. If you look at the breakdown for the county popular vote in Illinois for this election, Chicago voted for Hillary and the rest of the state voted for Trump. However, due to the size of Chicago, Illinois was called blue the second polls closed there. 

Now there is definitely room for reform within the electoral college however I don't feel that doing it by popular vote would be good either. 

[Childless]

3 minutes ago, OldFadedStar said:

To those who wish to see the Electoral College change.. what are your thoughts on how it should change?

I don't agree with strictly going with a popular vote because major urban centers would rule everything. Life is a lot different in rural areas then they are in the cities. How would it be fair for those in the rural areas? There is already this sentiment in Illinois. Chicago rules the entire state and is hated by most of southern illinois due to it. If you look at the breakdown for the county popular vote in Illinois for this election, Chicago voted for Hillary and the rest of the state voted for Trump. However, due to the size of Chicago, Illinois was called blue the second polls closed there. 

Now there is definitely room for reform within the electoral college however I don't feel that doing it by popular vote would be good either. 

But without the EC, each person's vote, rural or urban, would be valuable.  The way it stands now, the urban center of Chicago chooses were the electoral votes go.  If your part of rural Illinois, your vote doesn't matter at all.  That hardly seems fair.  One person, one vote sounds a lot more balanced.

[Ali]

A positive thing I can say about the Electoral College is that it gives power to the battle ground states. Both of them came to my state multiple times and I could have easily gone to rallies put on by both of them.

[candygirl200413]

AND NOW HE WANTS HIS CHILDREN TO HAVE TOP SECURITY CLEARANCE!!!

Link:http://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-team-seeks-top-secret-security-clearances-for-trump-children/

Quote

The Trump team has asked the White House to explore the possibility of getting his children the top secret security clearances. Logistically, the children would need to be designated by the current White House as national security advisers to their father to receive top secret clearances. However, once Mr. Trump becomes president, he would be able to put in the request himself.

His children would need to fill out the security questionnaire (SF-86) and go through the requisite background checks.

While nepotism rules prevent the president-elect from hiring his kids to work in the White House, they do not need to be government officials to receive top secret security clearances.

of course his little friends are like "why not?! I don't see a problem!"

 

[Bethella]

1 hour ago, Ali said:

A positive thing I can say about the Electoral College is that it gives power to the battle ground states. Both of them came to my state multiple times and I could have easily gone to rallies put on by both of them.

But the EC hurts the "safe"/non-swing states because those states ignored by the candidates. 

[VixenToast]

2 hours ago, candygirl200413 said:

AND NOW HE WANTS HIS CHILDREN TO HAVE TOP SECURITY CLEARANCE!!!

Link:http://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-team-seeks-top-secret-security-clearances-for-trump-children/

of course his little friends are like "why not?! I don't see a problem!"

 

And what exactly would they have access to with top security clearance??? Ughhhh...

From Repo the Genetic Opera, this lovely trio of inheritance squabbling siblings reminds me of Eric, Ivanka, and Junior. Yes, that's Paris Hilton. NSFW humorous and copious use of blood.

also... More weird siblings, this time MCPOYLES!!!!!!

 

enjoy your giggles. Hahahaha, top security clearance hahahahaha.....

[Tesseract]

Found this in USA news: 

People are sending donations to Planned Parenthood  in Mike Pence's name. Since we were taking about donations to PP, why not let Mike Pence get the letter of thanks!

 

 

[bashfulpixie]

I hear the argument about getting rid of the EC and how it wouldn't be fair to the rural states. Well how is what's currently going on fair to those of us living in more heavily populated states? Why should someone who lives in Wyoming have 3x the voting power (or more!) when it comes to voting for the President than someone living in a city? That doesn't strike me as very fair either. 

At least with a popular vote, everyone would matter equally

[Ali]

8 hours ago, Bethella said:

But the EC hurts the "safe"/non-swing states because those states ignored by the candidates. 

That's true. I was trying to about positives things about the EC. I'm afraid rural states would be completely ignored if the EC were abolished. They really is no solution that would be completely "fair."

[GreyhoundFan]

11 hours ago, Childless said:

I'm not at all surprised he didn't have a clue as to what the president actually does.  The entire election was a game to him.  He wanted to beat everyone else and to brag about how he was the best.  Now every time I see him, he looks terrified.  It's starting to sink in that he's actually going to have to do this job and it's an incredibly hard job to do.  I have a feeling it's more work than he's done in his entire 70 years on this planet and he's worried about what he's gotten himself into.  He promised to shake up the establishment and drain the swamp but he's now realizing he's going to need the help of those insiders to survive.  

The fact that he's running scared gives me at least a little joy.  He deserves the fear and uncertainty.  Couldn't have happened to a better guy. 

The Washington Post had a couple of good articles about this issue. 'Donald Trump is about to discover what a President does all day' and 'No one said being President would be easy.' A couple of highlights (apologies for the wall of text):

Quote

Donald Trump may not like being president. This is not a job in which you merely speak to cheering crowds. This is a salaried job in which you have to show up for work every day and deal with problems so intractable they could not be solved at lower levels. You have to pick among options fraught with the potential for failure and disaster. Mistakes are made, and you’ll get the blame. There’s a reason presidents age visibly in office. Nice airplane, people return your calls, but it’s one of the hardest jobs on the planet.

The president is, as George W. Bush put it awkwardly but correctly, The Decider, and it is a fundamental rule of the job that the chief executive often has to decide among unpleasant options. President Obama explained this to Michael Lewis:

“Nothing comes to my desk that is perfectly solvable,” Obama said at one point. “Otherwise, someone else would have solved it. So you wind up dealing with probabilities. Any given decision you make you’ll wind up with a 30 to 40 percent chance that it isn’t going to work.”

Quote

Bob Woodward has described some of the intelligence briefings that the president-elect will get in coming weeks, including ones governing the nuclear codes:

The “football” also contains a book of options benignly called the “Presidential Decision Handbook.” This top secret/code-word book, known as the “Black Book,” of about 75 pages has separate contingency plans for using nuclear weapons against potential adversaries such as Russia and China.

The president can select nuclear strike packages against three categories — military targets, war-supporting or economic targets and leadership targets. There are sub-options, and the menu allows a president to withhold attacks on specific targets.

Two officials said that the “Black Book” also includes estimates on the number of casualties for each of the main options that run into the millions, and in some cases over 100 million. Officials who have dealt with nuclear-war options said that learning the details can be horrifying and that there is a “Dr. Strangelove” feel to the whole enterprise.

Problem: Trump doesn’t read books, even 78-page books. He made that clear in interviews with The Post. Here’s Marc Fisher reporting on Trump’s non-reading habits:

Trump said reading long documents is a waste of time because he absorbs the gist of an issue very quickly. “I’m a very efficient guy,” he said. “Now, I could also do it verbally, which is fine. I’d always rather have — I want it short. There’s no reason to do hundreds of pages because I know exactly what it is.”

Quote

In a “60 Minutes” interview last night filled with substantive news, a seemingly casual question from Lesley Stahl elicited a potentially revealing answer from Trump. Stahl, directing her query to Melania Trump, asked if she was prepared for the level of scrutiny and loss of privacy that being first lady entails. Mrs. Trump said “we are used to it,” and then Donald Trump said, “I’ve had a lot. But I’ve never had anything like this.”

Quote

Trump’s attitude throughout his long march to the presidency was that the job would be easy for him. Recognizing it won’t is a good first step.

 

 

9 hours ago, candygirl200413 said:

AND NOW HE WANTS HIS CHILDREN TO HAVE TOP SECURITY CLEARANCE!!!

Link:http://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-team-seeks-top-secret-security-clearances-for-trump-children/

of course his little friends are like "why not?! I don't see a problem!"

 

It makes me sick that he's pushing for them to get top level clearances. Frankly, it will be a challenge to get them. If you have any travel to foreign countries or relatives who are foreign-born, you get extra scrutiny (sounds like Ivanka, Junior, and Eric, since Ivana was born in Czechoslovakia). When I got my first clearance, much handwringing ensued because I couldn't remember the street address of a house we lived in when I was SEVEN YEARS OLD because said house was in Europe (we lived there because one of my parents was in the military and stationed overseas). Someone checked to find the actual address based on my description and interviewed neighbors to see if they remembered me. Not surprisingly, nobody did, since it was several decades earlier. Also, they will go to the colleges and interview professors to see how the children were as students. From what I read, this won't be complementary, especially for Junior.

One of the things that was impressed upon me during the clearance process was the importance of the information I would be able to access and the penalties for revealing ANYTHING.

 

 

[Terrie]

It seems more and more like it will be a race to see which ends his term as president: impeachment or a heart attack. I don't care if you literally though Hillary Clinton was the anti-christ. You couldn't say she didn't know what she was getting into and what the job entails. 

[Mecca]

It is a sad, sad day when the fool that won the election has not a clue on how the presidency works. If his minions would have paid attention during the debates, they would have known that. But I am guessing his followers may not be too familiar with how the government works either, and that is why they bought all his unfulfillable promises. I am afraid this will be a Pence presidency. 

Trump is also unhappy about staying at the White House, so he now wants his Florida and Trump Tower residences outfitted so he can do his business at those places causing Tax payers a crap load of money in the process. Could you imagine if Obama would have demanded that? Obama cannot even take a golf break without people being on his jock, but Trump can do this and those same people don't say a thing. 

[hoipolloi]

Re: security clearances. Had one back in the early Jurassic, when I worked for the DoD as a civilian employee. This was before internet but the form was huge, in quadruplicate, and as noted above, required an exhaustive listing of every address, job, etc. I'd ever had as well as detailed info on spouse, family, college, memberships in organizations, etc.

Don't think it included personal financial information per se, like bank account numbers, but with people like the Trumps I don't see how their business activities could NOT be investigated to some extent as part of the background check. They'd better hope that all those loans from Putin's Russia are well hidden.

And YES to the large amounts of money needed to outfit Trump's residences for use as alternative offices. Disgusting & SO hypocritical, but we're talking about Republicans so what else is new?

 

[church_of_dog]

Some food for thought:

Last night I watched a documentary about the brash (what an understatement!) right-wing talk show host of the late 1980s, Morton Downey Jr.

I was agog at the strong parallels between Downey and Trump, as well as between "fans" of each.  There were even several references to Trump in the movie, since Trump was a Downey fan and for a while Downey lived in Trump Tower.  Mostly there was the claim that Downey's popularity was due to him speaking his mind without regard for political correctness, and resonating with those who don't feel the current system represents them.  Exactly what we've been hearing is why so many voted for Trump.

Being reminded of the extent to which the Downey show was a put-on, "for entertainment purposes" triggered a weird reaction in me -- can't help but wonder the same about Trump.  Of course, the potential consequences are on astronomically different scales.  And while Downey's popularity rose and fell within a very short span of just a few years, Trump has clearly been playing his role for decades and isn't likely to suffer precisely the same fate.

But I can't help but wish that Trump might (like Downey did at the very end after being diagnosed with lung cancer) realize that "the game" isn't appropriate any longer.  Not holding my breath in any way, just an involuntary wish.

If anyone else has seen this documentary, would love to hear others' reactions to the similarities.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1822381/

[Cartmann99]

13 hours ago, Childless said:

I agree that you are being impatient.  People learn about Rosa Parks and think she sat in the front of the bus and shortly thereafter blacks no longer sat at the back of the bus.  The bus boycott went on for a year before the whites finally folded.  Civil change takes time and effort.  It always starts with protests, but much more effort is expended after that before a reward is seen.  Give it some time.

Side Note:  Every time I think about the bus boycott I'm floored by the discipline and dedication that took.  An entire year of not only being inconvenienced, but also ridiculed and sometimes even assaulted and they never gave even an inch.  It was beyond impressive.  I'm not sure today's generations have the patience and fortitude to pull that off.

The Long Walk Home is a good movie about this period in American history.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0100046/