Trump 5: Coming up trumps

[laPapessaGiovanna]

9 hours ago, Howl said:

Lots of links above, so don't know if this one has been covered: 

Awesome Rolling Stone article by Matt Taibbi.  

The Fury and Failure of Donald Trump:  Win, lose or drop out, the Republican nominee has laid waste to the American political system. On the trail for the last gasp of the ugliest campaign in our nation's history

It's a long and excellent article, but to whet your collective appetites: 

and this

and this

 

This is great food for thought. I particularly like the well articulated reflexion on Hillary and then this part.

Quote

Trump's shocking rise and spectacular fall have been a singular disaster for U.S. politics. Built up in the press as the American Hitler, he was unmasked in the end as a pathetic little prankster who ruined himself, his family and half of America's two-party political system for what was probably a half-assed ego trip all along, adventure tourism for the idiot rich.

That such a small man would have such an awesome impact on our nation's history is terrible, but it makes sense if you believe in the essential ridiculousness of the human experience. Trump picked exactly the wrong time to launch his mirror-gazing rampage to nowhere. He ran at a time when Americans on both sides of the aisle were experiencing a deep sense of betrayal by the political class, anger that was finally ready to express itself at the ballot box.

The only thing that could get in the way of real change – if not now, then surely very soon – was a rebellion so maladroit, ill-conceived and irresponsible that even the severest critics of the system would become zealots for the status quo.

In the absolute best-case scenario, the one in which he loses, this is what Trump's run accomplished. He ran as an outsider antidote to a corrupt two-party system, and instead will leave that system more entrenched than ever.

If he goes on to lose, he will be our Bonaparte, the monster who will continue to terrify us even in exile, reinforcing the authority of kings.

If you thought lesser-evilism was bad before, wait until the answer to every question you might have about your political leaders becomes, "Would you rather have Trump in office?"

Comparison with Napoleon aside (the only thing the two have in common is a disproportionate, monstrous, narcissistic ego) I found this a very lucid analysis. Trump is the ideal bogeyman to scare the whole of the US into toeing the party's line. And I say party and not parties because from a far away pov the two parties have much more in common than they have differences, both want to keep the status quo  and protect the economical interests of the powerful, as for the "values" of the Gop we've clearly seen how much those matter. On the Democrats part if the party wanted to pursue truly progressive policies they shouldn't have chosen a conservative like Clinton.

Anyway it's a sad situation and I can see many similarities with what is happening in many European countries too, with the various deplorables Farage, LePen, Salvini etc suddenly becoming viable candidates. 

[VelociRapture]

This election, while phenomenal for snarking, has me legitimately scared for the future. I have the most perfect little nephew and I'm going to have the most perfect little daughter in January. How on earth are we supposed to raise these tiny little people to be compassionate, intelligent, and thoughtful adults with people like Trump trying to run the country?! Even if he doesn't win, his followers aren't just going to "go quietly into that good night."

I've already told my husband I don't want to raise our baby here if he's elected. He doesn't think it'll come to that, but I'm not so sure. I don't want to move to Canada - no offense intended - but I also am terrified about the thought of raising my child here under the rule of Herr Gropenführer. 

[sawasdee]

I live in Thailand, probably one of the countries least affected by who wins the US Presidency. But these are my thoughts, as an observer.

1.Benghazi

Mrs Clinton has been repeatedly attacked re Benghazi. She has been investigated multiple times by highly partisan committees, and has been found guilty of nothing.

Accusations that she was responsible for the deaths of four state department officials have been debunked, not least by the fact that Congress refused funds to upgrade security at overseas Embassies and Consulates.

No mention was made , or has since been made by Trump supporters, to the numbers of State Department officials who died under Republican administrations, although these numbers were much higher.

2.Wikileaks.

Those I have read show a person who, if anything, over analyses, and sometimes agonises, over decisions.

I was also interested to see how few speeches were made to Wall St. I believe the total was 8, out of around 542.

Donald Trump was also on the paid speech circuit - I have seen almost no mention of this, or of to whom the speeches were made, except that some were for a pyramid selling company.

I was somewhat impressed by her reference to the fact that her income has removed her from her middle class upbringing, but that she does not forget her roots.

The leaks by Wikileaks cannot by any stretch of the imagination be called impartial - they are aimed at Mrs Clinton: I am sure there is a great deal in emails within the Trump organisation that would interest the general public.

3. Emails.

Once again, Mrs Clinton has been investigated, by both Congress and the FBI, and found guilty of carelessness but no wrongdoing for using her private server, and for deleting private emails. Very little mention has been made of the fact that both Colin Powell and Condoleeza Rice also used non State Department email servers, or the fact that the G W Bush administration deleted over 22 million emails, contrary to the Presidential Records Act of 1978. This latter was actually illegal, but no inquiry, let alone prosecution, was ever made.

4. Bill Clinton

Mrs Clinton is accused by her opponent of attacking those women who claimed sexual contact with her husband. Of course, the present Republican candidate would never do such a thing .........(ref any news report of the last few days.)

She also stood by her husband - as many a political wife has done before - but , as far as any outsider can see, they seem to have rebuilt their marriage.

5.Defending a rapist

As a young lawyer, Mrs Clinton was appointed, over her objections, to defend a rapist.Despite lack of cooperation from the victim, she negotiated a plea bargain that put him in prison - admittedly not for long, but he did plead guilty.

As for the canard that she laughed about the case - if you listen to the tape - www.snopes.com › Fact Check › Politics › Politicians - years later, she laughed when she said this case taught her not to believe polygraphs, as her client passed

6. Clinton Foundation

Recently given an A rating by CharityWatch, and 4 out of 4 stars by Charity Navigator. with a record of over 88% of donations reaching their target projects. This rating was above that of the American Red Cross. No member of the Clinton family takes a salary. That they take donations from overseas is the norm at this level of fundraising.

However, the Trump Foundation was just told to cease fundraising by the Attorney General of New York State, because of irregularities.

7. Past record

Mrs Clinton has an admirable record of public service, from establishing the first rape crisis in Arkansas to helping to get CHIP passed, to getting needed federal aid in health care for 9/11 responders.

Her opponent has a record of bankruptcy, tax avoidance,failure to pay contractors - and please do not mention his name in Scotland, as his bullying tactics there included cutting off the water supply to a woman in her eighties, as he tried to buy her house.

I won't go into the other reasons I see Trump as such a nightmare - racism, otherism, and what I believe to be sedition, in encouraging rejection of the poll if he does not win. That's for another post.

What shocks me more than anything, is the ludicrous attempts by the MSM in the US to be 'balanced', with an outright liar (fantasist?) on one hand, and a normal politician on the other. Does Mrs Clinton ever lie? Yes, of course she does. But Politicifact has shown he lies at least 3-4 times as much - why aren't he, and his spokespeople, called out more?

As an observer, this election has seemed to become reality television as entertainment - which could be fun, if the fate of the US and a lot of the rest of the world didn't depend on it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[laPapessaGiovanna]

So glad to see you back @sawasdee! 

Your analysis seems spot on to me. 

[sawasdee]

Thank you! Life intervened, and then i fell down the rabbithole of the US election.......but I'm back now!

[Howl]

  @sawasdee, yes, that is my understanding exactly. 

Right now, Chuck Todd is incinerating Pence on  Meet the Press; it's obvious Pence has sold his soul to the devil.  Like many before him, he's been tasked with Trumpslaining the indefensible and Trumpfending the endless stream of lies and denials.  He's the guy with a big shovel walking behind the elephant at the circus.  

For example, Pence has schooled us: as women pour out of the woodwork with first-hand reports of Trumps sexual harassment/aggression/outright assault THAT TRUMP HAS BRAGGED AND BOASTED ABOUT IN PUBLIC, Pence clarifies for us that  THESE REPORTS ARE NOT TRUE BECAUSE TRUMP SAYS SO with the subtext that these women must be lying, but he's quick to clarify that victims of sexual assault should be believed.  Da fuq?  I'm reduced to going all caps on y'all because this is just so nuts. 

There are Game of Thrones references being thrown around this morning by talking heads on MSM shows. 

I kind of wish I could be transported into a state of suspended animation until Nov. 9th. 

Happily, this entire situation has created some SNL gold with the debates. 

 

[Destiny]

So glad to see you back@sawasdee! 

Your analysis seems spot on to me. 

This. We've been worried!

Also, cosign your analysis, but don't try to point out facts to a trumpet. They don't want to hear them.

[Mecca]

4 hours ago, laPapessaGiovanna said:

Anyway it's a sad situation and I can see many similarities with what is happening in many European countries too, with the various deplorables Farage, LePen, Salvini etc suddenly becoming viable candidates. 

It is happening in Australia as well. We were in Australia last year when the Reclaim Australia rallies were going on. Pauline Hanson has shown back up, and the Love Australia or Leave party has recently been approved by the Australian Election Commission. Kim Vuga, the founder of LAOLA, is one of the most vile creatures I have ever seen or heard. She held a rally in a city we were visiting, and the things she and her minions were saying were stomach turning. Pure racism. Not shocked that Kim is loving Trump and is all over social media singing his praises. They both have a lot in common down to both having crappy hair. If you want to see how vile she is, watch the third season of the documentary, "Go Back to Where You Came From."  

The uprising of this kind of harmful thinking is not exclusive to the U.S.  It is a sickness spreading throughout the world. There are a lot of people that hold dangerous, bigoted and racist views. It is up to us, the reasonable people, to stand up against it. 

[Mercer]

I think Clinton is going to win the election, but that doesn't change the fact that there is enough racism, sexism, homophobia, and bigotry in the United States that a significant number of people still support Trump after all he has said and done. Trump himself may fade away after November, but those things will still be with us and that scares me for the country.

[47of74]

Ugh, Benito Guiliani speaking again.

cnn.com/2016/10/16/politics/rudy-giuliani-rigged-elections-donald-trump/index.html

Quote

Top Donald Trump adviser Rudy Giuliani claimed Sunday that Democrats could steal a close election by having dead people vote in inner cities, while vice presidential candidate Mike Pence said the ticket will "absolutely accept the result of the election."

"I'm sorry, dead people generally vote for Democrats rather than Republicans," the former New York City mayor told CNN's Jake Tapper on "State of the Union." "You want me to (say) that I think the election in Philadelphia and Chicago is going to be fair? I would have to be a moron to say that."

But he did say the amount of cheating would only impact extremely close races -- noting, for example, if either Trump or Hillary Clinton won Pennsylvania by "5 points," the cheating he alleges would occur would be negligible and not change the outcome.

Giuliani was backing up Trump, the Republican nominee, who has repeatedly claimed on the campaign trail -- without providing evidence -- that his race against Clinton is being rigged.

 No Rudy.  That's not the case.  Although dumb fucks generally vote for Republicans rather than Democrats, dead people don't vote for Democrats because they're dead. 

[sawasdee]

I truly cannot see where these tropes of "Hillary the Liar" and "Crooked Hillary" pushed by Trump  come from. There is absolutely no proof whatsoever of either - in fact, Politifact called her one of the most honest politicians. Is it a question of say it loud enough, and enough times, and it is accepted? Why has no TV political commentator challenged this? It has become accepted by the electorate so that she is not trusted by a higher percentage than GW was!

I suppose all those Congressional investigations - none of which found any wrongdoing - have just soaked into the American psyche, with the unspoken  "no smoke without fire".....forget they were all politically motivated!

 

[Mecca]

5 minutes ago, 47of74 said:

"I'm sorry, dead people generally vote for Democrats rather than Republicans," the former New York City mayor told CNN's Jake Tapper on "State of the Union." "You want me to (say) that I think the election in Philadelphia and Chicago is going to be fair? I would have to be a moron to say that."

As we have seen in this election cycle, the above is clearly not the case. We have witnessed a multitude of brain dead people throw their support behind Trump. 

The Trumpster keeps asking his minions to stake out polling places. I dare one of these fools to play that mess at my precinct and confront me or any other voter. You might see a news story of some liberal lady losing her shit on some folks. I hope they realize trying to intimidate and hinder voting will land their cans in hot water. 

 

[sawasdee]

I'd recommend anyone confronted by these loons to stutter "b.b.b.but I'm a Republican"! And then go in and vote Democrat!

[laPapessaGiovanna]

6 minutes ago, sawasdee said:

I truly cannot see where these tropes of "Hillary the Liar" and "Crooked Hillary" pushed by Trump  come from. There is absolutely no proof whatsoever or either - in fact, Politifact called her one of the most honest politicians. Is it a question of say it loud enough, and enough times, and it is accepted? Why has no TV political commentator challenged this? It has become accepted by the electorate so that she is not trusted by a higher percentage than GW was!

I suppose all those Congressional investigations - none of which found any wrongdoing - have just soaked into the American psyche, with the unspoken  "no smoke without fire".....forget they were all politically motivated!

 

I may well be wrong, but I think that for many mrs Clinton represents the paradigm of the typical politician so she must have all the characteristics of the despised category namely she's a liar, she stands with the powerful, she wants to control people's lives,  she's unjust, she cheats and so on. Little matters to the lower middle class that feels screwed up by politicians if she's actually a liar (or all the other accusations) or not, in this moment she's THE politician so she's the enemy, the liar the one who screwed them up. Trump’s best qualities are not being a politician and having no filter in speaking whatever is in his mind despite it being shit or sociopathic drivel. People are using him to deliver the message to the establishment that they feel so bad towards said establishment that even the trumpmonster is better...and then there are those who actually agree with him O.o as absurd and maddening as it is.

[Mecca]

Just now, sawasdee said:

I'd recommend anyone confronted by these loons to stutter "b.b.b.but I'm a Republican"! And then go in and vote Democrat!

I will have my 6'4" and some change and muscular body guard, a.k.a my husband with me. This seahag will gladly say I am a democrat and then sashay my ass into a booth a vote for the H. Haha!

For the record: I certainly don't go looking for trouble, but I also don't like to be pushed around. I will stand up for myself and for others. The polling places here are really strict and been very professional in the past, but I don't know how people will act in the parking lot. I do have some anti-Trump stickers on my car, so that might make me a target. Who knows. 

[laPapessaGiovanna]

Quote

The uprising of this kind of harmful thinking is not exclusive to the U.S.  It is a sickness spreading throughout the world. There are a lot of people that hold dangerous, bigoted and racist views.

This is what scares me the most. And Clinton isn't known for being a peacekeeper (I don't even want to consider a Trump win), a big problem considering the international situation. Maybe if she had to run against someone sensible instead of the sociopathic pumpkin maybe this could have been an important rheme to discuss in the campaign,  together with all the important issues that are overlooked thanks to the crazy drivel dominating the scene. 

[formergothardite]

1 hour ago, Destiny said:

Also, cosign your analysis, but don't try to point out facts to a trumpet. They don't want to hear them.

They sure don't! I've discovered that you can't have a reasonable discussion with Trump fans. They ignore all facts.

[Howl]

58 minutes ago, sawasdee said:

I truly cannot see where these tropes of "Hillary the Liar" and "Crooked Hillary" pushed by Trump  come from. There is absolutely no proof whatsoever of either - in fact, Politifact called her one of the most honest politicians. Is it a question of say it loud enough, and enough times, and it is accepted? Why has no TV political commentator challenged this? It has become accepted by the electorate so that she is not trusted by a higher percentage than GW was!

Hillary has had a target on her back for many years.  As I've mentioned previously, extremely well funded groups like Judicial Watch have been propagating lies about the Clintons for years.   And yes, when right wing media says it enough, it becomes an echo chamber.  Hillary Clinton is an incredibly powerful and intelligent woman and also very shrewd -- characteristics which do not endear her to the far right, who seemingly prefer Sarah Palin types. 

 

[sawasdee]

As a Brit, I find the hatred targeted against Hillary because of her gender ludicrous! I hated Maggie - but that had nothing to do with her gender, only her policies! And I don't exactly fan swoon over Theresa May either - but again, I dislike Boris Johnson more!

[nausicaa]

38 minutes ago, Mecca said:

For the record: I certainly don't go looking for trouble, but I also don't like to be pushed around. I will stand up for myself and for others. The polling places here are really strict and been very professional in the past, but I don't know how people will act in the parking lot. I do have some anti-Trump stickers on my car, so that might make me a target. Who knows. 

I don't go looking for trouble either but I hope some self-appointed Trump Soldier of Fucked up Fortune approaches me at the polls. After months of listening and reading hateful misogynistic and racist drivel, I have a lot of angry tirades pent up. Try and confront me. Please try. 

(My polling place is a Methodist Church in a super uptight, bourgeois town, so this is unlikely to happen, but would be quite the scene if it did.)

I know people have said this before, but what on earth are these "Vote Inspectors" going to do? There are already tables set up outside of the polling stations for the various political parties that anyone is free to volunteer for.  It's a felony to barricade the doors. With zero authority they're gonna interrogate people who can just tell them to screw off? They are going to start assaulting women walking into the polling places since they're statistically more likely to vote for HRC? Yeah, that'll go over well...

[AmazonGrace]

No surprise that Trump has no sense of humor

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/37673337/donald-trump-says-saturday-night-live-spoof-stinks

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/10/16/heres-the-snl-that-finally-went-too-far-for-donald-trump/

 

Pence was trying to rein Trump in

http://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2016-37673797

But Trump's not having it

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trump-rigged-election_us_5803876de4b0162c043c7d1f?

[Cartmann99]

4 minutes ago, AmazonGrace said:

No surprise that Trump has no sense of humor

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/37673337/donald-trump-says-saturday-night-live-spoof-stinks

In case anyone missed it, here's the skit SNL did last night about the Town Hall debate:

And the Melanianade one:

 

[AmazonGrace]

Watching that I think he got the maddest about the bit where they declared Hills the president

[sawasdee]

I'm being barred from watching from watching these videos with a Thai language explanation that I can't read.....

[47of74]

I'm voting early this year because I'll be away for school during the election week, and will vote at the annex the election people set up.  Anyone who gets in my way is going to have a date with my foot.