Bates Family Part 16 - Babystep Bates

[season of life]

7 minutes ago, Melissa1977 said:

Can we finally put her officially  in the fundie lite/conservative side? 

I think she and John may be, but I won't believe it until a year or two, so I can see how fast Alyssa attempts to have kids. I do hope, for their sake, that they are using some form of prevention. 

[formergothardite]

I"m not sure how far she has left. She still is still allowing herself to be used in to attract people to IBLP. 

I'm guessing she is still probably still pretty damn fundie and she still shares the same awful beliefs as her FIL Taliban Dan.

It is hard for me to admire someone too much who is still making money off making the cult lifestyle look innocent and harmless. Victims of Gothard are doubted because that show makes the Bates look so nice and harmless. She is helping hurt people who have already been hurt and making money while she does it. 

[Melissa1977]

Just now, season of life said:

I think she and John may be, but I won't believe it until a year or two, so I can see how fast Alyssa attempts to have kids. I do hope, for their sake, that they are using some form of prevention. 

Well, she implied that when saying they're not in a rush at all and that she wants to enjoy Allie. It's a way to say people "stop asking if I'm pregnant!", without saying they're using birth control. I understand they cannot say "birth control" at Bates home. But Alyssa's comment is not quiverful at all.

Anyway, Allie is more than 1 year old. Considering Alyssa and John age and their honeymoon pregnancy, they would be probably pregs or even with a second baby already if they weren't preventing.

[JermajestyDuggar]

I'm very glad Alyssa isn't going to have 19 kids like her mother. I think it's actually very possible she could have a very large family because 1) she got pregnant soon after marriage so she's probably fertile 2) she uses bottles so that could increase her fertility after baby and 3) she's only 21 so she probably has 24 more years of childbearing. 

At least she is not going to make her older children raise her younger children because she has too many to raise herself. And hopefully she won't grift as much as her father because they can actually support the size of her family. 

But it's possible she still holds a lot of fundie beliefs. It's hard to know since she really doesn't spout off about God and religion all that much.

[formergothardite]

All of the Bates have clamped down on being more obvious about their awful beliefs. They are smart enough to realize that to keep up their happy, shiny image, they need to keep that side of them hidden. 

Comparing Kelly in the old blog where she was so obvious about all the terrible things they believed to the new and "improved" Kelly is very interesting. 

[Melissa1977]

4 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I'm very glad Alyssa isn't going to have 19 kids like her mother. I think it's actually very possible she could have a very large family because 1) she got pregnant soon after marriage so she's probably fertile 2) she uses bottles so that could increase her fertility after baby and 3) she's only 21 so she probably has 24 more years of childbearing. 

At least she is not going to make her older children raise her younger children because she has too many to raise herself. And hopefully she won't grift as much as her father because they can actually support the size of her family. 

But it's possible she still holds a lot of fundie beliefs. It's hard to know since she really doesn't spout off about God and religion all that much.

I'm sure she has fundie beliefs! But I can't help smiling watching a Bates saying she wants to enjoy her child and wait some time before having more. It's refreshing to listen that and not the same old song "children are like flowers, you can't have too many, etc". Alyssa seems to live in the real world.

[JermajestyDuggar]

25 minutes ago, Melissa1977 said:

I'm sure she has fundie beliefs! But I can't help smiling watching a Bates saying she wants to enjoy her child and wait some time before having more. It's refreshing to listen that and not the same old song "children are like flowers, you can't have too many, etc". Alyssa seems to live in the real world.

Alyssa knows damn well you can have too many because she had to help raise her siblings and got the fuck out ASAP! I hope Tori takes a page out of Alyssa's book and limits the amount of children she has.

[crazysnark]

I don't think we can lump Alyssa into Taliban Dan's beliefs. Just because he is her father in law does not mean she shares every single belief. I honestly don't know what Alyssa believes. It's not my job nor any one else's to state exactly what it is Alyssa believes. What I do know is she is doing her daughter a great favor of not giving her too many siblings and is ensuring that her daughter has the time she needs to flourish and grow. She found a man that wouldn't force her into being a brood mare that she didn't want to be. She knew what she was doing. Also, while she might not want to live the life her parent's live she might not yet be aware that lifestyle is dangerous. It took me years to see that I was raised in a dangerous cult, even after I had left 

[JermajestyDuggar]

I can only speculate on what type of BC Alyssa is using but I bet she's been told many lies about hormonal BC and is not using it. Michelle Duggar was told her birth control caused her miscarriage and believed it. I bet Alyssa has been told it causes miscarriages and infertility. And she's probably been also told the hormones fuck up her body and will make her fat. So since hormonal birth control has been demonized all her life, she probably only has a few options. Condoms, pull and pray, and natural family planning (charting her cycle and avoiding fertile days). It would not surprise me at all if she was doing one or more of those. 

[Dr. Fundie Stalker]

On June 23, 2016 at 1:29 AM, season of life said:

She could always make a separate account just for friends and family. Or Alyssa can choose to withhold pictures of Allie.

I really don't like the idea of people posting pictures of their children on the public internet so for Allie's sake I'm glad she will have less exposure. On whether she should or shouldn't have it reminds me of the saying it is better to give a resentment than to get one. sounds harsh but o well. by drawing a line people can resent her but she no longer has to resent them. If she even wants to be happy in her" Fundie Lite Not Quite" life she has to set boundaries.

[VelociRapture]

@crazysnarkIf Alyssa continues to support him as a candidate and politician then I will continue to believe that she shares his views on the issues.

@Melissa1977Personally, I can't define her or her husband as Fundie Lite yet - not while they continue to allow their images to be used in promoting the show and IBLP in general. 

As for their plans for their family - I give them credit for apparently giving this decision a good deal of thought and deciding what was best for their family. It'll be interesting to see how it plays out over the years and whether it's a decision they decide to stick with.

Same with the Paines - it'll be interesting to see how Erin's condition impacts their family planning choices over the years.

[Dr. Fundie Stalker]

5 hours ago, 19 cats and counting said:

I'd love to see that kid make a clean getaway when she's older.  She very well might be the Bates to do so since her parents will be much older as she comes of age (and her sister mom flew the coop last August).

Hopefully she'll pave the way for the next generation.

Yes I love Callie - I read discussion about the name of the board pertaining to Jinger's Courtship.....FREECALLIE.ORG or perhaps a spin off for the next Gen of Poor Arrows born into these families. I almost cried when I saw Zsu Zsu had given birth to another one and a Girl none the less. I had been out of her "Are they all yours????" loop. 

[Palimpsest]

2 hours ago, Melissa1977 said:

Well well well, Alyssa has clearly said that she's deciding how many kids she wants. And if she's not in a rush for more babies considering she has just one easy baby, I bet she won't have a big family. 

Can we finally put her officially  in the fundie lite/conservative side? 

Despite her beliefs, I admire her because she's just 21 and she's leaving the Gothard hole and taking her own decisions. Leaving a cult is not easy. Maybe she will remain very conservative, but the important is not that she breaks everything, but that she decides how to live. 

No.  Because I've yet to see any evidence of the above.

[princessmahina]

45 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I can only speculate on what type of BC Alyssa is using but I bet she's been told many lies about hormonal BC and is not using it. Michelle Duggar was told her birth control caused her miscarriage and believed it. I bet Alyssa has been told it causes miscarriages and infertility. And she's probably been also told the hormones fuck up her body and will make her fat. So since hormonal birth control has been demonized all her life, she probably only has a few options. Condoms, pull and pray, and natural family planning (charting her cycle and avoiding fertile days). It would not surprise me at all if she was doing one or more of those. 

I could see them using NFP. Pulling out has the Onan stigma attached to it. There's a certain amount of "letting God decide" with going the natural route, and it doesn't leave evidence for nosy relatives to find like condoms. 

[Palimpsest]

1 hour ago, crazysnark said:

I don't think we can lump Alyssa into Taliban Dan's beliefs. Just because he is her father in law does not mean she shares every single belief. I honestly don't know what Alyssa believes.

I think we can reasonably believe that Alyssa supports Taliban Dan's platform.  After all, she has volunteered for his campaign, stumped for it, met her now husband while working for it, appeared on it as a married woman, and appears to support it to the hilt.

When she officially renounces it - why then we can assume that she isn't fully on board on Taliban Dan's agenda - with bells on.

Some of you lot are really just grasping at straws about Alyssa.  I do have to wonder why.

[Casserole]

Every time this conversation comes up, I struggle with an internal conflict of when to judge the "adults" who were brainwashed and raised in the cult. Part of me is sympathetic; While their beliefs are toxic, brainwashing is real, stockholm syndrome is real, the fear of questioning everything they've ever known (and the consequences they're told will happen if they do) is very, very real. It could take a decade or longer to really unravel the chaos in their minds and one million baby steps before the outside world sees any change. Yes, some kids RUN, but I feel like most don't. It's got to be terrifying to leave. 

The other part of me is like "I'll make judgement when they're married." But then, their parents choose kids just as brainwashed and fearful so now two people have to work through the damage done and it could take even longer. So then I'm like "okay, yes it could take long, but I'm making judgement when they have kids because they're now bringing up other humans into this horrible, viscous cycle." And then I go back to the beginning of feeling bad for judging them but being so angry that they continue to support such volatile things and encourage others into it. 

/leghumping because you know who I never worry about passing judgement on? The pieces of shit parents that CHOSE this life and inflicted it on their children; the children they were supposed to nurture, love, and protect from the evils of the world and instead they became the evil in the world. 

 

Sorry I'm rant-y today. Anyone else have this internal conflict or am I becoming overly invested in these crazy people and becoming a crazy person myself? lol

[JesusCampSongs]

3 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

And Nathan has realized Ashley isn't a meek submissive wife. 

I've suspected the same, myself, and that they were having differences of opinion over post-wedding life. 

Tbh, Ashley strikes me as someone who is very outgoing, social, and prefers to be going places and doing things, while Nathan seems to be more of a homebody, low-key type. I don't think introverts are better than extroverts or vice versa, but strongly believe that a big mis-match in that area is a one-way ticket to relationship hell. It's happened to me quite a few times. 

Either way, I'm glad that they are pulling back rather than continuing on to the wedding plans at full tilt. 

[Coconut Flan]

Giving up quiverful in no way means someone is giving up being fundie.  There are tons of not quiverful fundies in the world. 

[theinvisiblegirl]

46 minutes ago, Casserole said:

<snip>

Sorry I'm rant-y today. Anyone else have this internal conflict or am I becoming overly invested in these crazy people and becoming a crazy person myself? lol

I feel this. I've been guilty of grasping at straws, too, I suppose, but I'm also very back-and-forth on how harshly to judge the second generation that didn't actively choose the lifestyle but were, instead, raised in it. I think, as humans, some of us are inclined more to give the benefit of the doubt? But, with most of these fundies, I eventually reach a point where I can't give them that doubt anymore.

[marmalade]

1 hour ago, Palimpsest said:

No.  Because I've yet to see any evidence of the above.

I agree. Didn't Alyssa post something to social media support Taliban Dan's run for Speaker of the House after Boehner stepped down? 

[Kaylo]

I'm sure that this has been discussed but I'm not sure where - I'm fairly new to the Bates threads, but Damn it seems like Chad Paine is head over heels in love with his wife. Am I wrong or did she, in fact, hit the jackpot?

[OrchidBlossom]

6 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

And Nathan has realized Ashley isn't a meek submissive wife. 

I don't get why people say this. Not knocking you, I just don't see it. There are funny, articulate, outspoken fundies. Even women. It does't mean they aren't submitting joyfully to their husbands and meekly serving the lord. Ashley had a blog from a few years ago all about how she was praying to the lord to lay it on her heart to become a good, submissive, godly wife. Admittedly the blog is a few years old, but her parents are still steeped in IBLP and she courted/is courting a Bates. There's no evidence that meek submission isn't in her future just because she's loud.

 

[Purrl]

FWIW, my husband and I never used birth control which I guess equals leaving it up to God to decide the size of our family. We had one child early on then no more - no miscarriages, no still births, nothing. So, one can have a small family while still not using birth control of any sort, even NFP. 

[Melissa1977]

7 hours ago, Palimpsest said:

I think we can reasonably believe that Alyssa supports Taliban Dan's platform.  After all, she has volunteered for his campaign, stumped for it, met her now husband while working for it, appeared on it as a married woman, and appears to support it to the hilt.

When she officially renounces it - why then we can assume that she isn't fully on board on Taliban Dan's agenda - with bells on.

Some of you lot are really just grasping at straws about Alyssa.  I do have to wonder why.

I'm not grasping any straw. I said several times that I'm sure Alyssa has fundie beliefs. But what defines Bates family and Gothardism is to have the more kids the possible, and Alyssa has clearly leaved this train just after the first baby. Fundie or not, it takes some courage to do it and to tell it in TV.

Maybe I like Alyssa and I prefer to be possitive about her. But there's a lot of people that said BC was the evidence of a real change, and now she talks about it and people now says it's no important. I don't get it. I really think that birth control is one of the most important decisions in a woman's life.

[actuallyjessica]

I'm not grasping any straw. I said several times that I'm sure Alyssa has fundie beliefs. But what defines Bates family and Gothardism is to have the more kids the possible, and Alyssa has clearly leaved this train just after the first baby. Fundie or not, it takes some courage to do it and to tell it in TV.

Maybe I like Alyssa and I prefer to be possitive about her. But there's a lot of people that said BC was the evidence of a real change, and now she talks about it and people now says it's no important. I don't get it. I really think that birth control is one of the most important decisions in a woman's life.

Take it from me - this is not worth arguing over.