Do You Believe In Prayer?

[Crackedeggs]

In the warp and woof of the fabric of life, there are many hidden threads that we have no idea are there, or what they are for, should we happen to glimpse them. For some, praying to God makes the fabric pattern very clear and understandable, no matter what the answer. I do believe the more minds focused on manipulating the weave, the better the chance of having some success at that are. For that matter, once very strong mind can also do it, but there is no guarantee you will have any effect at all. By the same token, weeding your garden or cooking dinner, other temporal activities, do influence the weave.

Yeah, I read a lot of Starhawk before I tried the fundie trip.

[FundiesInMyFamily]

This is interesting for me - while I don't believe in praying to a deity and asking for somthing, I do wholeheartedly believe in the power of positive and collective thinking. Alecto put it way more elequently than I ever could. My son has been through many dozens of surgeries and many other procedures, and everytime he goes in I get the word out to "pray/meditate to the energy/deity of your choice" to friends and family - I think all that positive energy does have an effect on things. Even if it just makes us feel better, thats not necessarily a bad thing.

[dastarddamsel]

No. I don't believe in prayer. I also don't believe in karma, positive intention, or any ritualistic religious practice.

I will qualify this by saying I am a devout practitioner of yoga. But yoga (to me), is more about becoming personally in balance with yourself and your mind.

I try to live a happy, good and generous life. I try to refrain from screwing anyone over. I try to cultivate feelings of friendliness in others toward myself. I don't steal or cheat. If I do all these things, the theory is that no one will want to screw me, and then I won't need to pray. This isn't karma - I don't expect a payback in kind.

When it comes to things like cancer, illness or tragedy... I believe there's a scientific explanation for everything, and there's a way to work through each problem with logic. And sometimes, something just cannot be fixed. There's no use (in my mind) in praying.

So to sum up this TL;DR- I don't believe in prayer. I believe in science and comfort with our own mortality.

[O Latin]

I guess my answer is yes and no.

In my church choir, we have prayer request time at the end of every rehearsal where people share things they want prayed for ("my husband is having surgery," "my daughter is looking for a new job," etc.) and then the director leads us in prayer. I don't see why having the whole choir praying for your problems is going to help. God already knows your husband is having surgery. To me it feels almost like constantly nagging God. But that time of sharing and praying together is important for the people in the choir. It gives them comfort to know they're not alone. So whatever "answer" God decides to give, prayer has helped them.

Now the types who pray for all the lights to turn green so they won't be late for work and things like that...yeah, I don't think God gives a hoot.

[LilMissMetaphor]

Please don't correct my behaviour, I am too old for that.

You're never too old to have your behaviour corrected, if there's something wrong with it.

[aelar]

I'm an atheist, but I love "ritualistic religious practice". I think there are a lot of aspects of religious ritual, prayer among them, that do good work for the people that practice them. Not because there is actually anything supernatural out there answering prayers or providing strength. Rather, those rituals, and the belief in the ritual, tap into our natural reservoirs of strength and healing more effectively for some people when they are presented in a religious context, rather than a secular one.

As others have noted, our minds and our bodies are still mysteries, and exactly how they work, exactly how we can best marshal our resources when we are ill or in distress, are still unknown. We can't always say why one person gets lucky and another doesn't, why one person heals, or feels better, or is happier, and another doesn't. We certainly don't understand how the placebo effect works, and yet, the effect is startling, and quite real as scientific study has shown.

So to me, prayer is a way of using the placebo effect, and if it works, how wonderful! Even if it doesn't work, or even if you are praying for someone else who doesn't know you are praying for them, and therefore there is no logical reason that anything you do would have an effect on them, praying is a sort of positive busywork that can help people feel a sense of control in a situation where they have no actual means of control. So it seems sensible to me on a purely psychological level to pray if it gives a person a sense of comfort, and people who don't have the ability to pray and access that sense of comfort are missing a tool in the psychological toolbox of coping.

One of the interesting things about placebo effects is that they can work even when you know you are taking a placebo, so I have been known to pray, not to a deity, but to myself or the ether or the whims of fate. I know that it isn't actually doing anything concrete to help me or help the person I am thinking about, I know that fate isn't something that even exists, let alone something that can be bargained with. But it is still a more useful thing to do than aimless anxiety, and provides a sense of calm. So as long as I am prepared to accept that my thoughts and prayers did not change a negative outcome, I see no harm, and the possibility of good, in allowing myself a secularized version of this ritual behavior.

For people who actually believe in a God that has the ability to affect outcomes, I imagine the potential for both positive mental effects (feeling comfort in God's will) and negative mental effects (feeling betrayed by God) are far greater than my atheist's mind is subject to, and that's something that religious people have to manage on their own. I do think prayer can be harmful if it isn't used with the right mindset.

[emmyfair]

Yes and No.

I believe in the power of positive energy, and that putting our hopes and wishes into verbal form can be really helpful for focusing and grounding us. That being said, I believe in the power of action a million times more than the power of prayer. Someone once told me "God helps those who help themselves" - and that really sticks with me, even to this day.

Personal opinion, of course.

[slh12280]

Yes, I believe that God listens to our prayers but does not always give us the answers we want or expect.

[doggie]

prayer can have power as others have pointed out. But to think you can change gods mind with it is on the arrogant side. Plus if god fills your prayers in other ways how do you know it is him doing it and not your actions? thats the biggest problem you can never really know if it is you or god. Because other people who don't believe in your version of god or god at all have those same things happen.

[ladypuglover]

Well you probably don't read my comment since I severely ruffled your feathers during a discours about wedding attire and your responses to me were predictably 'christian and loving' especially the ones about me taking the SSRI to cope with my late sons timely death.

I would like to comment on your post anyway.

Have you asked yourself the question, what about all the other parents praying (not me to be clear on that) and their children didn't make it any way? Their parents didn't pray enough or they didn't form a prayer chain?

How about all the starving children all over the world? Your 'god' doesn't seem to bother about them at all, but he specifically picked your son to heal? Why? Because you all prayed?

Sometimes a body heals itself, according to my son, who is a medical specialist (radiologist) it happens all the time.

No doctor, at least in this part of the world, unless he is a (religious)freak and over here we don't have many of those , will talk about a miracle or devine intervention.

Fortunately your son was very lucky, that's all there is. I fully understand you are grateful and relieved, but I am afraid it had nothing to do with the '' prayer chain' or praying for that matter.

I never responded to you about your son's death or you taking meds in a Christian way or a Non Christian way. I never responded to you period. I'm sorry but you have me confused with someone else and I don't know why you feel the need to single me out so much and bash my veiws and get upset when others do the same to you. Please, stop and leave me alone as I am doing with you.

[bbfreethinker]

How about all the starving children all over the world? Your 'god' doesn't seem to bother about them at all, but he specifically picked your son to heal? Why? Because you all prayed?

Sometimes a body heals itself, according to my son, who is a medical specialist (radiologist) it happens all the time.

No doctor, at least in this part of the world, unless he is a (religious)freak and over here we don't have many of those , will talk about a miracle or devine intervention.

And how about amputees?

http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/god5.htm

edited to fix link

[AtroposHeart]

No, Even when I was a christian I realize that prayer had no effect.

[fundiefan]

No, I don't. Personal experience but the world in general tells me not to waste my time. Of course, I don't believe in the Christian god, so who would I pray to?

If individual, specific prayers are answered, yet world changing prayers are not, I want no part of it. If someone prays for a job and gets one, or money for this months rent and gets it, yet someone else is praying for life, health, peace, safety - and doesn't get it - I can't make that work in my brain.

I don't remember the exact quote or who it was by, but it kind of sums up my thoughts.

No soldier goes to war without thinking god is on 'his' side.

Outside the quote, a mother with a sick child prays for a cure but plans a funeral instead, while someone else prayed for $800 to make rent this month and gets it? Wrong. On all counts and in all ways.

How could god possibly be on both/all sides? If god answers the prayer of an American soldier in Afghanistan, he is refusing to grant the prayers of those on the 'other side'. As a firefight happens or bomb is dropped, those in the line of fire are praying for their lives. Yet, it strikes, some praying people die and those who sent the bomb think their prayers were answered. What the fuck, really?

There is nothing that allows me to believe praying does anything other than give the one praying something to do.

And, I should note, I have nothing against that. If life is more tolerable with prayer, go for it. If it gives you comfort and peace, have at it. We all have our own life and coping tools. Just, please, don't pray for me or tell me your prayers and really, really don't tell me your prayers were 'answered'.

**Edited to clarify and fix typos

[anniebgood]

Yes. I pray because I need an outlet. Whether the deity in the ether of the universe is listening to me or not, it's something that I do and rely on.

I don't judge others by their beliefs or non beliefs. For me, it's a part of my daily life, just as making the sign of the cross is every morning and every night.

I may not be the best Christian out there, but I have seen the collective power of prayer and the energy that has been focused on a person's healing. It doesn't always work, true, but when it does, there is cause for happiness.

[fundiefan]

No. I don't believe in prayer. I also don't believe in karma, positive intention, or any ritualistic religious practice.

.

I don't know if I ever actually believed in karma but it was always a nice though. But the last couple of years have given me an entirely different view of the concept.

People create their own karma. It's not a universal, cosmic thing, it's a consequence thing.

Make your choices and act on them. The consequences of those choices are your karma. We all create our own karma by the choices we make. Yes, sometimes it can take years but in the end, those choices and consequences do and will have an impact on you.

I learned / realized/ took notice of, this the hard way. An ugly, nasty, manipulative and fucked up divorce. In the end, the one who did the manipulating got 'screwed'. He never had to be 'screwed'. He never had to suffer. He made his choices though and chose the temporary over the long term. Now, that long term has a major impact on his life. That is, to me, his karma. His consequences. His choices and consequences playing out.

I've done stupid things myself and paid a price. It's not a supernatural process. Karma is consequence.

[linnea27]

I believe that there are things in this world that we do not or cannot understand. I'll leave it at that.

I will say, however, that like a previous poster, it drives me insane when I see a fundie (or anyone) pray to find a parking spot, that their hockey team will win the game, that they choose the right outfit to wear, get a good mark on an exam they didn't study for, etc. I mean, really? You believe you have a direct link to god and you're not asking for world peace, an end to suffering, etc? How shallow can self-absorbed can you get?

[allyisyourpally5]

I really don't know how I feel about prayer. I am a Christian, in that I do believe there is a God, I struggle to believe (in fact do not believe)that everyone else will go to Hell (if there is one, I think it's more metaphorical, but thats another discussion).

Prayers wierd. I join in prayer, but rarely do alone. I don't play for a sympathy vote, but I've had a lot of shit happen. why does it not happen to everyone?

I don't think it is always God.......luck, yes. Why do our favourite fundie families pray for Gods protection on the road,then see a crash....and praise God for his protective hand? Do i SERIOUSLY THINK god protects a Christian girl praying while walking alone and let another girl get attacked because she didnt ask (sorry an example I once heard at church)? NO!

We had an interesting incident as a family.....my sister was very suck, her boyfriend of the time came from a very uber religious family. My dad believs in prayer, and prayed for her. the BFs family visit, and pray for her there in the hospital. the next day she is considerably better, to which the BFs family call up and say that they're prayer circle is certainly Gods work and thats why she is better. To which my dad got incredibaly upset and stated "what about my prayers?"

Anyway

I dont believe God is the one answering these little requests. I don;t believe he sends the nORTHERN Lights, I don't believe he lstens to requests about modesty, schedules, buses, music, grand pianos, constant askings for money, to do well in tests blah blah blah, but I think he is there, and I believe in prayer to an extent, but also positive thought, luck, chance, karma and human instinct. God doesnt provide everything, humans give alot too! my 2 cents, hope no offense, to be completely honest I really have no clue what i believe

[allyisyourpally5]

I also should clarify, I do not want shit to happen to everyone :oops: no no no no, but it seems to happen to those who pray and those who dont. i always wonder why

[ladypuglover]

We had an interesting incident as a family.....my sister was very suck, her boyfriend of the time came from a very uber religious family. My dad believs in prayer, and prayed for her. the BFs family visit, and pray for her there in the hospital. the next day she is considerably better, to which the BFs family call up and say that they're prayer circle is certainly Gods work and thats why she is better. To which my dad got incredibaly upset and stated "what about my prayers?"

Anyway

I think you better change the word suck to sick or it could mean that your sister was defrauding her boyfriend.

[Effie]

Prayer is like magical thinking to me. And I don't think magical thinking is very productive...

[NurseShannon]

While I pray, I stopped asking God for things...except a calm spirit and clear mind. *shrug* I was just raised that you could ask God for anything, but it doesn't mean that He'll give it to ya!

[Childless]

No. The only thing prayer does is make the person praying feel better. There's nothing wrong with that at all. If it makes you feel better, then pray away. However, it won't change the outcome. What will happen will. If a child isn't going to survive an illness, then they aren't going to survive. Praying will not change that fact.

[snarkykitty]

I believe in prayer, perhaps more now than I did before. Most of my prayers are for things like strength, patience, courage, or peace for myself and others, and not "please don't let my car cost more than $1500 to fix," because praying isn't the same as making a wish. It's a subtle nuance, but I hope that it makes sense (even if you don't agree with it).

I also believe in "positive energy" and karma.

Just as important as prayer is being thankful for my blessings. A (somewhat) reliable car, good health insurance coverage, a safe home, food on the table - things that a lot of people don't have. Why I have certain things and others don't, the only way I can explain that is to look at the fact that others have blessings that I do not. No one has "everything." Even the wealthiest person can be lonely, the most popular person can be sick, and the smartest person can be homeless. Life can "always be worse," so I try to make sure that I am grateful for what I have in life, and that I can give to others who may need something that I can provide.

To the notion that "Religion is the opiate for the masses" (not the person who posted it) - if I am wrong about my beliefs, I guess I'll know for sure when I die.

[lawfulevil]

In the sense that it's a useful form of meditation. As a direct appeal to a deity... well, no, I'm an atheist.

[fundiefan]

For all my personal opinions and beliefs, I am often kind of blown away whenever I see Evan Almighty. For all its cheesy-ness, Morgan Freeman's god says something that really gets me.

Paraphrasing. When someone prays for strength, does god give him strength or the opportunity for strength? When someone prays for courage, does god give him courage or the opportunity to find courage?

The link to it.