Do You Believe In Prayer?

[lilwriter85]

I believe in prayer for two reasons :because I believe in physics and because I believe in the power of the mind.

I think that prayer induces the "power of positive thinking." If you are praying for something, or you know others are praying for you, there is something very positive about that, and I think staying positive and believing that things will get better or you will get better works. Think of it as a mental placebo effect. If prayer or meditation or working magic is what helps keep you mentally fit, focused and able to tackle the day, then yes it works.

My second theory is totally a speculative hypothesis about the nature of the universe, but it makes sense to me, so I am going with it. All matter, at its core, is made up of energy. I personally believe that some, if not all people, have the ability to manipulate that energy via various ritualistic means. Prayer, folk magic, high magic are all essentially the same thing. They are ways to get your mind in the right frame of reference to manipulate those subtle energies, therefore allowing the person to transform things in subtle ways.

So, do I believe there is a great heavenly hotline? No. Do I believe that there is some power behind directed, meditative thinking, which prayer is a part of? Yes, I do.

Well said Alecto on the "power of positive thinking." I don't really believe in prayer at all because I became atheist in the past couple of years. But I agree positive thinking can help people stay mentally fit.

Recently a cousin of mine went through a health crisis. A majority of my relatives are Catholic and they keep talking about the power of prayer and during that time I focused more on positive thinking and hoping for the best.

[Patsy]

I had my share of rude comments and I would love to see one of my 'rude comments.'

A sampling:

Despite your later insistance within the thread that everyone was being SO RUDE to assume what you meant (even though you didn't actually bother to clarify that that wasn't what you meant until after a few pages of drama had gone on):

You cannot wear black at a wedding!

Please, give me a break and don't pretend you know me.

god forbid I have not the same standards or habits you have.

Why not a public flagellation?

spare me the pedantic tone

you are a bloody hypocrite.

you are as nasty, unpleasant and dishonest as the average fundie.

Oh please again the exaggerations, a persecution complex and a ridiculous and completely irrelevant comparison.

And I am now done with this part of the thread. I think these statements seem accurate summaries:

If she didn't really mean what she wrote in that thread, and was just joking, she should have said so the second it became obvious people were misreading her. But she didn't, she let the drama go on and on for pages and didn't mention till the very end that her original posts in that thread were not supposed to be taken seriously. If it was a language issue, she should have been thankful people took the time to explain why everyone was upset, but instead she acted insulted.

you seem to have very different standards in regards to how you expect to be treated versus the way you treat other people.

[latraviata]

A sampling:

Despite your later insistance within the thread that everyone was being SO RUDE to assume what you meant (even though you didn't actually bother to clarify that that wasn't what you meant until after a few pages of drama had gone on):

And I am now done with this part of the thread. I think these statements seem accurate summaries:

Yes, well done to post some of my comments or posts without any context at all. But still where is the name calling, the rudeness?? Except the last one of course, addressed to LPL, but have you seen her last comment to me?

End of discussion.

[formergothardite]

Honest, non-snarky question Latraviata. Why didn't you explain at the very beginning of that thread that we were not to take your posts seriously? That whole thread wouldn't have happened if you would have done that. But you waited to the very end to the thread to explain that you weren't being serious with those very offensive sounding post. Tone is hard to read online and I've seen this same thing happen all the time, but most people clear it up immediatly, not let it go on for pages.

[defrauding]

To return to the original topic, I find traditional Jewish prayers powerful, albeit in a secular sense. Jews around the world have kept these prayers alive for centuries -- despite everything they've experienced -- and reciting those same prayers strengthens my sense of connection with the Jewish people. Along those same lines, an American can visit a synagogue in Russia, for example, and participate meaningfully in services without knowing a word of Russian.

So, yes, I believe in the power of prayer. Whether it serves as a divine telephone line, though, is another question.

[latraviata]

Honest, non-snarky question Latraviata. Why didn't you explain at the very beginning of that thread that we were not to take your posts seriously? That whole thread wouldn't have happened if you would have done that. But you waited to the very end to the thread to explain that you weren't being serious with those very offensive sounding post. Tone is hard to read online and I've seen this same thing happen all the time, but most people clear it up immediatly, not let it go on for pages.

Because it is my personal ambiguity, I was brought up with very rigid rules regarding manners and etiquette. As I am getting older I became more appiciative about what my parents have tought me. I am European and these things are apparantly different from the American mores.

I gave a summery of my personal hobbyhorses (or my mother's for that matter) with some sort of irony and initially I thought people would understand that and my god what was so offensive about it? No black on a wedding, no barefoot, no hat after five who on earth is offended by that?

Because we all have things we do because we were thaught so and on the other hand we snark on it.

That is all there is to it. But when people started accusing me of racism, being arrogant and yes the boorish thing was a bad choice of word and I apologised for that, one even had the audacity to accuse me of using my late son to protect me from critisism, that is offensive not a summery of some ancient rules from a last years turnip. I really feel sorry though about one thing, that I told you lot about my son, really, really sorry.

On a certain point it didn't matter what I said, conclusions were drawn.

Let me be clear about some things, I am not arrogant, don't look down on people at all, I am not rude, direct yes and I am most certainly not a racist, fool, fake, bad breed or troll. The prayer chain story of LPL really pushed me over the edge, how is it possible that somebody who claims to be so much better as a christian than the fundies we snark on, writes a comment so presumtuous and hateful to a person she has never met and yes I referred to the wrong comment, but frankly the original one was even worse. LPL is level headed? As long as people believe in fairy tales they are not level headed, not in my book.

I didn't want to bring it up, because this is not verifiable for you, but I'll do it anyway, I have sent this thread to some friends and relatives with the question what do you think?

Well, somebody called some posters a bunch of hyenas.

I leave it at that and I appriciate your effort to ask me about my motives I thank you for that.

[formergothardite]

Because it is my personal ambiguity, I was brought up with very rigid rules regarding manners and etiquette. As I am getting older I became more appiciative about what my parents have tought me. I am European and these things are apparantly different from the American mores.

I gave a summery of my personal hobbyhorses (or my mother's for that matter) with some sort of irony and initially I thought people would understand that and my god what was so offensive about it? No black on a wedding, no barefoot, no hat after five who on earth is offended by that?Because we all have things we do because we were thaught so and on the other hand we snark on it.

That is all there is to it. But when people started accusing me of racism, being arrogant and yes the boorish thing was a bad choice of word and I apologised for that, one even had the audacity to accuse me of using my late son to protect me from critisism, that is offensive not a summery of some ancient rules from a last years turnip. I really feel sorry though about one thing, that I told you lot about my son, really, really sorry.

On a certain point it didn't matter what I said, conclusions were drawn.

Let me be clear about some things, I am not arrogant, don't look down on people at all, I am not rude, direct yes and I am most certainly not a racist, fool, fake, bad breed or troll. The prayer chain story of LPL really pushed me over the edge, how is it possible that somebody who claims to be so much better as a christian than the fundies we snark on, writes a comment so presumtuous and hateful to a person she has never met and yes I referred to the wrong comment, but frankly the original one was even worse. LPL is level headed? As long as people believe in fairy tales they are not level headed, not in my book.

I didn't want to bring it up, because this is not verifiable for you, but I'll do it anyway, I have sent this thread to some friends and relatives with the question what do you think?

Well, somebody called some posters a bunch of hyenas.

I leave it at that and I appriciate your effort to ask me about my motives I thank you for that.

What was so offensive was that you didn't write it as just your personal hobby horse, you wrote it in ways that implied any culture or person who didn't do things just as you did lacked decorum, class and manners. It isn't offensive that you want to do those things, but you wrote things in a very offensive manner and nobody got the irony and you never cleared it up until the very end. If you want to be ambiguous about your posts fine, but you also have to accept that people are going to react to you in this manner and think you are a troll stirring up drama.That is just the nature of the beast when it comes to message boards. It is your choice. You can either clear things up when people don't get the irony of your posts and the drama will end then or you not do so and let drama go on for pages.

[latraviata]

What was so offensive was that you didn't write it as just your personal hobby horse, you wrote it in ways that implied any culture or person who didn't do things just as you did lacked decorum, class and manners. It isn't offensive that you want to do those things, but you wrote things in a very offensive manner and nobody got the irony and you never cleared it up until the very end. If you want to be ambiguous about your posts fine, but you also have to accept that people are going to react to you in this manner and think you are a troll stirring up drama.That is just the nature of the beast when it comes to message boards. It is your choice. You can either clear things up when people don't get the irony of your posts and the drama will end then or you not do so and let drama go on for pages.

'That is just the nature of the beast when it comes to message boards.'

And that justifies the insults? They were a lot worse than what I have said.

You know what, I don't give a toss anymore. I tried to explain myself over and over again, perhaps different culture, English not my first language. It doesn't matter. Apparantly I have been offensive, but the response was hugely blown out of proportion.

I am done, I have more important things on my head.

Good day.

[keeperrox]

I am European and these things are apparantly different from the American mores.

I gave a summery of my personal hobbyhorses (or my mother's for that matter) with some sort of irony and initially I thought people would understand that and my god what was so offensive about it? No black on a wedding, no barefoot, no hat after five who on earth is offended by that?

Let me preface this by saying that I am not offended by you. However, you come across as extremely arrogant, which could be something that's being lost in translation. Cultures are different and traditions change. You are potentially offending those who do wear black to a wedding, answer the door barefoot, and wear hats after five, just because they don't live by your personal rules of etiquette, which are far more strict than most of us are accustomed to. Yet, when questioned, you launch into an attack like you've been personally wronged somehow. You've dragged in drama from the old board that many of us either never saw or remembered, and you obviously harbor some major grudges or you wouldn't have gone after LPL like you did. What's the point of getting so riled up over a silly little message board and people you have no control over?

[treemom]

I thought about this yesterday and this morning and whether I would post this. But I decided...I wish people had told me this when it was happening to me.

latraviata - as you know I have also lived through unspeakable grief. I can look back on it now and see that during the worst the pain of it made me combative when I normally wouldn't have been. I am not offended by you, and I agree that at times it is probably the language/culture difference that has led to people misunderstanding you/you misunderstanding people. But I also think that some of this lashing out at people who aren't known to be contentious in general is probably tied to your grief. For me it took over every single bit of me.

It doesn't seem like it is always cathartic for you to post here and it does seem like you are particularly keen to grind axes over a tit for tat. I wonder how you feel when these things go down? Are you already in a emotionally rough place that day?

I feel like you will misunderstand this and lash out at me. I am not calling you crazy (although I have no shame in being crazy myself). I am expressing concern rooted in an understanding on how a loss of your son was probably devastating.

[latraviata]

I thought about this yesterday and this morning and whether I would post this. But I decided...I wish people had told me this when it was happening to me.

latraviata - as you know I have also lived through unspeakable grief. I can look back on it now and see that during the worst the pain of it made me combative when I normally wouldn't have been. I am not offended by you, and I agree that at times it is probably the language/culture difference that has led to people misunderstanding you/you misunderstanding people. But I also think that some of this lashing out at people who aren't known to be contentious in general is probably tied to your grief. For me it took over every single bit of me.

It doesn't seem like it is always cathartic for you to post here and it does seem like you are particularly keen to grind axes over a tit for tat. I wonder how you feel when these things go down? Are you already in a emotionally rough place that day?

I feel like you will misunderstand this and lash out at me. I am not calling you crazy (although I have no shame in being crazy myself). I am expressing concern rooted in an understanding on how a loss of your son was probably devastating.

Treemom no, I am not exactly my own sweet self lately, of course not, it is barely a year ago that my son passed away, what do you think??

I am in an emotional very rough place and I don't feel offended by your question regarding this matter, au contraire. However this might be an opportunity for someone to accuse me of using my son again, which I find very, very nasty and offensive and in no proportion to my 'insulting' statement about a black dress to a wedding and being barefooted, wow what an attack!!!

I was never intending to insult a single soul, you have to believe that and I was genuinely shocked by the responses.

Again a summery; racist (mind you), drama queen, fool, fake, bad breed, posh cat from a commercial, in desperate need of psychopharmaceuticals, feeling persecuted like a fundie, troll, using my son to generate compassion to give me a free pass to express my dispicable opinions. And for what? People felt offended because they are barefooted and they wear black dresses to a wedding? Really??

And over and over again well, you have to understand, that was very arrogant and I had to rephrase and to explain and use other terminology, well I bloody did and it had no effect at all, it made matters worse, the fat was already in the fire.

But you know, try to have a discussion with a few 'offended' women in a foreign language.

[treemom]

Treemom no, I am not exactly my own sweet self lately, of course not, it is barely a year ago that my son passed away, what do you think??

I am in an emotional very rough place and I don't feel offended by your question regarding this matter, au contraire. However this might be an opportunity for someone to accuse me of using my son again, which I find very, very nasty and offensive and in no proportion to my 'insulting' statement about a black dress to a wedding and being barefooted, wow what an attack!!!

I was never intending to insult a single soul, you have to believe that and I was genuinely shocked by the responses.

Again a summery; racist (mind you), drama queen, fool, fake, bad breed, posh cat from a commercial, in desperate need of psychopharmaceuticals, feeling persecuted like a fundie, troll, using my son to generate compassion to give me a free pass to express my dispicable opinions. And for what? People felt offended because they are barefooted and they wear black dresses to a wedding? Really??

And over and over again well, you have to understand, that was very arrogant and I had to rephrase and to explain and use other terminology, well I bloody did and it had no effect at all, it made matters worse, the fat was already in the fire.

But you know, try to have a discussion with a few 'offended' women in a foreign language.

People accused you of using your son when you basically said, how could you be mean to me...my son just died last year. Listen I get it...I really do. It is systemic, grief affects every part of you. I know for me...well it did seem like people who were just going about their normal internet snarking routine and treating me just like everyone else....were being exceptionally cruel. But they honestly weren't. It was just I was so emotionally wrecked and fragile everything seemed like cruelty. People misunderstood you, but I also think you misunderstood people as well and took offense when it wasn't there.

I guess what I am saying is this place might not be the best place to be on your worst days. And ignore is an option that probably could save you a lot of hurt feelings.

[latraviata]

People accused you of using your son when you basically said, how could you be mean to me...my son just died last year.

Where did I say that or suggested that?

I went over the thread again and again, I took responsibility for the boorish thing, I am trying to explain myself over and over again, I give up.

I couldn't get it right then and I cannot get it right now.

I said terrible, hurting things and I have to be punished.

[latraviata]

and took offense when it wasn't there

No?? I find racist, drama queen, fool fake, troll, just to name a few, rather offensive.

[formergothardite]

Latraviata, I didn't read the French mom thread, so I don't know about that one, but in the wedding thread, people only called you those thing after you implied that other ways of doing things were low class and lacking basic manners and decorum. And you did not bother to explain till the very end that you weren't being serious with your posts. If you had of explain in the beginning that you were joking, the name calling would not have happened. You could have ended the drama and name calling right at the beginning of the thread but chose not to. I think acknowledging that would go a long way in having people forget about it all and stop bringing it up. JMO

[latraviata]

Latraviata, I didn't read the French mom thread, so I don't know about that one, but in the wedding thread, people only called you those thing after you implied that other ways of doing things were low class and lacking basic manners and decorum. And you did not bother to explain till the very end that you weren't being serious with your posts. If you had of explain in the beginning that you were joking, the name calling would not have happened. You could have ended the drama and name calling right at the beginning of the thread but chose not to. I think acknowledging that would go a long way in having people forget about it all and stop bringing it up. JMO

I never implied anything.

I explained why I find some sort decorum important and where it comes from.

People jumped to conclusions, because apparantly that is the mores of a forum, well good luck with that.

http://freejinger.yuku.com/topic/7069/W ... ing?page=4

[treemom]

People accused you of using your son when you basically said, how could you be mean to me...my son just died last year.

Where did I say that or suggested that?

I went over the thread again and again, I took responsibility for the boorish thing, I am trying to explain myself over and over again, I give up.

I couldn't get it right then and I cannot get it right now.

I said terrible, hurting things and I have to be punished.

No one punished you. An internet post is not punishment. A certainly not now. I am not implying you aren't getting it right...because honestly there isn't a right to be gotten.

I interpreted your initial post to LPL on this thread.

Anyhow I don't want a tit for tat, I was trying to show you as someone who wasn't even involved in those thread really that quite possibly you are making a mountain out of a molehill and it could be due to the emotional anguish of grief. It might be good for you to take a break or at minimum just put people on ignore. And for sure stop dragging issues from one thread to another.

[treemom]

and took offense when it wasn't there

No?? I find racist, drama queen, fool fake, troll, just to name a few, rather offensive.

You were offended way before that.

But really? Drama queen is offensive?