Sparkling Adventures Pt 10 - David Pleads Guilty - Merge

[docmom]

I think her latest posts look good. looks like theyve got some kind of home .

Hmmm, not sure about that. Her FB entry from Sept 10 shows the bus, covered in snow. Apparently they keep warm with blankets, hugs and hot water bottles. Must be perishingly cold...

[Miggy]

It was 29oC here yesterday. Lauren may be a little further south than us but still, cold really isnt an issue at this time of year.

[iweartanktops]

Fell down the rabbit hole... *heart broken* no other words...

[DaffyDill]

Hmmm, not sure about that. Her FB entry from Sept 10 shows the bus, covered in snow. Apparently they keep warm with blankets, hugs and hot water bottles. Must be perishingly cold...

Not terribly cold in Tasmania at the moment. I mean, it's nowhere near as warm as we've had in Sydney, but it's not freezing. These are Celcius temps btw.

[morri]

I have only looked at her instagram and didnt see snow etc. but sth that looked like a patio of a living room.

[FJismyheadship]

Do any of you 90s kids remember the Disney Channel movie The Color Of Friendship? You had the white girl from Africa coming to America to be an exchange student with the black family from America? And both parties had assumed what the other was going to be like, they were both disappointed they were wrong, found out how to be friends anyway and learned from each other.

Anyway, this thread is making me think of this.

So my dad's paternal side pretty much hit a dead end with his fathers grandparents. My great grandmother I could research way back and still do not think I have hit a dead end. I even found a photo of my great grandfather with my great grandmother! Super cool!

Then one person from FJ helped me find great grandfather's family. I think I was able to go back two more generations and got stuck on when GGF's grandfather came over from Scotland.

I can also trace my moms family back for many many generations, and my grandmother. I found out a guy I dated once was like a sixth cousin or something

[browncoatslytherin]

Do any of you 90s kids remember the Disney Channel movie The Color Of Friendship? You had the white girl from Africa coming to America to be an exchange student with the black family from America? And both parties had assumed what the other was going to be like, they were both disappointed they were wrong, found out how to be friends anyway and learned from each other.

Anyway, this thread is making me think of this.

So my dad's paternal side pretty much hit a dead end with his fathers grandparents. My great grandmother I could research way back and still do not think I have hit a dead end. I even found a photo of my great grandfather with my great grandmother! Super cool!

Then one person from FJ helped me find great grandfather's family. I think I was able to go back two more generations and got stuck on when GGF's grandfather came over from Scotland.

I can also trace my moms family back for many many generations, and my grandmother. I found out a guy I dated once was like a sixth cousin or something

i remember that movie! i actually became aware of apartheid in south africa because of it.

[IreneIssh]

Fell down the rabbit hole... *heart broken* no other words...

I fell down this one a couple weeks ago too. I completely relate. :(

[lilith]

There's a new post up. So damn self righteous

[DaffyDill]

So initially there's this part...

In an unconscious moment, I resorted to bribing one of my daughters. “If you clean up, I’ll hang the dreamcatcher where you want it,†I said. Without turning her head, she looked at me sideways and casually drawled, “That sounds like something another person’s mother would say.â€

My motivation was all wrong in the first place. I was feeling pressured to clean up by a voice in my head who wanted to impress someone outside our family. As I was not feeling good about it, I was trying to pass the physical responsibility to someone else. Unconsciously, I located a weakness in my daughter’s world and sought to exploit it. Nothing about that self-analysis is good, and I’m thankful that I was saved from my own actions by my enlightened daughter.

Then some paragraphs with Lauren's own special brand of mental gymnastics...and then...

After talking it all through — apologising, giving her the word “bribery†as an identification for that kind of behaviour, clarifying that it’s not a healthy way of relating at any level and exposing my own emotional baggage — I rephrased my request. “I’d like you to clean up. And I know you want me to hang the dreamcatcher for you. Let me know when you want it done.â€

So essentially, she still bribed her daughter. The end result is still the same. I'll hang your dreamcatcher up after you have cleaned up. But because this is Lauren though, it took paragraphs of self reflection, navel-gazing and postulating to change the way she said it, and in her mind that made some kind of earth shattering difference. Conscious parenting, apparently.

Okaaaay... UGH! The self righteousness of this woman makes me want to slap someone.

sparklingadventures.com/index.php?id=2058

[DaisyD]

I hope you're not saying that bribing your children is bad. The only people I know of that don't have to bribe their kids to do stuff, beat them into submission. Honestly, the world runs on bribery. My husband is bribed into going to work everyday with the promise of a paycheck.

As far as Lauren goes, some people get really hung up on how things are said. I know when I'm feeling emotional I tend to get upset by wording. Of course, I usually feel pretty foolish about it later. I wonder if Lauren does...

[morri]

I beg you pardon , I dont hit, and I dont bribe my child. at least 98 % of them time.

but it may depend on your definition of bribery. if you say you get a sweetie if you tidy up thats bribery, and I think it makes for a bad relationship to sweeties if you use them as a bribe. but if you ie say you can have a jelly after supper then I am not bribing I am just telling her right time. I am not saying she can only have it after she has cleaned her plate up but rather when she had enough of her food.

[blessalessi]

The self-righteousness that burns lies not so much in the discussion of bribery vs non-bribery, but in the fact that Lauren navel-gazes for several paragraphs, and then goes ahead and basically repeats the same behaviour, ie she still pairs her request for clean ing alongside a not-subtle reminder of a thing the child wants.

[morri]

Yes, what she should have done was forgetting about the cleaning and let her hang the dream catcher up anyway. Cleaning and hanging up stuff dont have any correlance it is not like you have to clean a spot for something otherwise it wont work etc(like cleaning shoes before polishing them or something like this)

[BleuTigre]

In previous threads there was concern/speculation about whether Lauren's daughters were there for the birth of Daniel. If you watch the video (linked up thread and in her post about the movie Gayby Baby) you'll see in one of the pictures of the birth in it a little girl standing off to the side in the pic. :(

[DaisyD]

I beg you pardon , I dont hit, and I dont bribe my child. at least 98 % of them time.

but it may depend on your definition of bribery. if you say you get a sweetie if you tidy up thats bribery, and I think it makes for a bad relationship to sweeties if you use them as a bribe. but if you ie say you can have a jelly after supper then I am not bribing I am just telling her right time. I am not saying she can only have it after she has cleaned her plate up but rather when she had enough of her food.

I didn't mean sweets necessarily. I don't keep candy in the house. Mostly I'm saying that if "I'll hang the dream catcher after you clean up" is bribery, then that's how you get kids to do things. You can go play after homework. You can watch TV after your room is clean. Do your chores if you want money for a soda. It's all part of growing up. The only alternative to this arrangement that I've heard of is do it or I'll beat you. If you do something different then please, I'm all ears.

[August]

My kids are right this very second working together to put their clean clothes away because they'll get to watch a minecraft video when they're done. It's like magic!

I will say, though, that food bribery is an awful idea. You're reinforcing any aversions they already have, by showing them that food is SO AWFUl that you need to be bribed to eat it, and the sweets are so good that they are a reward. You should always avoid all value judgements over their food, while remaining in control of what's offered.

[morri]

Oh Sweets were only an example from my side too. but what I meant was the difference between things that are required (If you want to have a bath you need to get undressed)or (if you want to go to the park you need to get downstairs) vs If you want to have the toy, or do something other pleasant you have to do this totally unrelated thing you don't like doing first .

At the moment obv my kid is only just shy of 3y so I haven't got that much exp yet, but I do try to be patient, non violent in words and actions and encouraging self responsibilty as apropriate for age.

[DaisyD]

Natural consequences/motivation are obviously ideal, that just doesn't always work. I take no shame in telling my kids that if they behaved at the store and didn't ask me to buy every damn shiny thing the stores make sure are highly visible, then I would give them a dollar to spend on whatever they want (the dollar toys at Walmart were very useful, since I usually said no candy). If we must find a life lesson in that, other than making mommy insane in public is bad, then they learned some self control and were rewarded for it. Now that they're older I let whoever comes with me pick out a treat and they help me bring in the groceries. It's more of a a barter system than bribery.

To me bribery really means getting someone to do something they aren't supposed to with some kind of reward for doing it. That's not how a lot of people use it though, when it comes to kids.

[August]

Morri, I don't mean this in a patronising way at ALL, so please don't take it that way.

For a two year old you can absolutely put on the cleanup song and power through the tidying. My kids loved to push a mop around or dry dishes at that age. However, for a quite large percentage of children after the crucible of hell that is the three year old it becomes harder and harder to get them to do stuff. My kids would be quite happy to just walk over an ever- deepening layer of toys to get around the house and wear filth-encrusted clothes 24/7 until they burst out of them like an insect shedding an outgrown exoskeleton.

Yes, I bribe them or withhold treats to get them to do housework. That's what pocket money and minecraft videos were invented for! Their brains just do not work the way ours do, which is why unparenting like the sparkling one does is just stupid. They're magical thinkers and struggle with delayed consequences and just plain have a way higher dirt tolerance than we do.

[chaotic life]

I have NO qualms about bribing sometimes. Sometimes we ALL operate by bribes.

I am FAR more disturbed that she thinks her reframing into passive aggression is somehow better and healthy than a straight up bribe.

Sadly, Lauren has a complete lack of authority to tell her children to do something and they obey. She wants to be authentic and equal and this world is not made by equals. Generally, when I want my children to clean up, I simply tell them to do so. If they then want me to do something else, I explain it can happen once they have done what they were instructed to do.

[DaffyDill]

Natural consequences/motivation are obviously ideal, that just doesn't always work. I take no shame in telling my kids that if they behaved at the store and didn't ask me to buy every damn shiny thing the stores make sure are highly visible, then I would give them a dollar to spend on whatever they want (the dollar toys at Walmart were very useful, since I usually said no candy). If we must find a life lesson in that, other than making mommy insane in public is bad, then they learned some self control and were rewarded for it. Now that they're older I let whoever comes with me pick out a treat and they help me bring in the groceries. It's more of a a barter system than bribery.

To me bribery really means getting someone to do something they aren't supposed to with some kind of reward for doing it. That's not how a lot of people use it though, when it comes to kids.

To the bolded: When mine were little and we'd go grocery shopping, I told them if they behaved all the way around, I would buy them a treat at the end. Behaving included not running off, not touching everything, and not asking for this and that. "Look with your eyes not with your hands!" was a constant phrase*. And if one didn't behave, he didn't receive his treat, if the other one did, he got his. You have to be prepared to go through with the consequences, so they learn that you mean what you say, otherwise, they will never do as you ask.

*Last week shopping somewhere, I had my younger son with me. I picked something up to look at it and a deep voice says "Mum. Look with your eyes, not with your hands". I asked if I behaved all the way around would he buy me a treat, but he refused :cry:

Generally, when I want my children to clean up, I simply tell them to do so. If they then want me to do something else, I explain it can happen once they have done what they were instructed to do.

Exactly! It's pretty much the same as "Treat others as you would be treated".

[DaisyD]

My oldest has such a deep voice now that it took a second today to realize that it was not my husband on the phone, but him. I'm a little freaked out by how we've found ourselves at this point. Then he randomly falls asleep in the middle of the living room and he's my baby again. The whole thing is so surreal. Raising children is such a trip.

Morri, you'll find what works for you, and there's bound to be some things along the way that you swore you'd never do. It happens to all of us. Just do what feels right and stick to your gut. It'll get you through the tough spots. No matter what anyone says, you have to be the one who is always there, so it's up to you. In the end, you are their champion. We all have struggles with our kids. I believe that they are sent here to shore up our weaknesses. That's just from my own experiences. You are so early on, and I don't want to sound condescending. That's not my intention. I just wish someone had told me that whatever you think, that's not how it will go. Stay on your toes, and be open to creative solutions. No one has all the answers, but a few have some good ideas to try. If you do your best, hopefully they'll only need a little therapy. ;)

[DaffyDill]

My oldest has such a deep voice now that it took a second today to realize that it was not my husband on the phone, but him. I'm a little freaked out by how we've found ourselves at this point. Then he randomly falls asleep in the middle of the living room and he's my baby again. The whole thing is so surreal. Raising children is such a trip.

.../snipped

My sons are 23 and 21 and both around 6'2", while I stand tall at 5'1", so I'm well used to the deep voices coming from above - it's not God, it's just the boys. I did find it funny that he remembered me parroting that phrase to him and his brother though lol. He even added "and if you're good all he way around I'll buy you a Yowie* each".

And yeah, raising children is indeed a trip. I feel for Lauren's little girls so much. I mean, what will become of them? Will they ever receive an education? Get a job? I just don't know.

*(A Yowie being a mythical Australian animal, but these were made from chocolate, and had a little capsule containing bits of a miniature native Australian animal to build. They used to have all these little wombats, possums, and kangaroos all along their window ledges.) Like a Kinder Surprise.

[Miggy]

Ahhh Yowies. For years I had a chart on the fridge and if my kids did seven days of music practice and got seven ticks on the chart, they got a Yowie. Those toys were as bad as Lego if you stood on them! My son is doing Music (Bass Guitar) at uni and my daughter has just passed 8th Grade Oboe, so I don't know if Yowies are bribery or a reward but whatever they are, they helped my kids develop the discipline of daily practice.