Jessa, Ben & Spurgeon Part 3

[Charliemae]

I like to pretend that they've agreed that Ben names boys and Jessa names girls. So that years from now they'll have a pack of boys named things like Sourgeon, Gothard, and Washer. Next to  little girls named Elizabeth, Sarah, and Mary.

We won't know for awhile, but the thought makes me chuckle. 

[habert]

19 hours ago, actuallyjessica said:

Big name nerd here too. If you go back through my posts I actually listed a few of those names as my guesses for Spurgeon's name.

I honestly thought Jessa was having a girl and thought she would go some sort of trendy update on an old fashion name, something like Adalynn or Livia or whatever.

Although I've never heard Spurgeon before, it didn't surprise me. I think Jessa wants to separate her image from her parents, and wanted something "old timey" to give off intelligence. Picking a last name as a first is a good start, but unfortunately Spurgeon is...not great 

 

1 hour ago, JesSky03 said:

I actually really like Gideon, it's second on my list for boy names if I ever have one. Somehow we ended up with all biblical names picked out for the boy names...Gabriel, Gideon, and Eli (not Elijah...I like Eli but not Elijah). 

I actually like most of those names I listed and think they are quite usable, even Ulysses

[Dandruff]

That video is adorable, and I see lots of love there.

[AlwaysExcited]

If they are going to be honest about their beliefs, the next baby will be Duggar after a christian hero JimBob. Dillard for the middle name, after a missionary couple, also true christian heroes.
Duggar Dillard Seewald. Just gives strong, unique message, y'know.
For the girl, they can switch names, as "Dillard Duggar Seewald" sounds a bit more feminine.

[mizandry]

Spurgebob is honestly so frickin cute, I can't even handle it sometimes. I'm probably getting ahead of myself in the wishful thinking, but...

This video of him trying to sing along with Ben to Three Blind Mice makes me so happy for so many reasons - I just really, really hope the rest of his babyhood is as sweet and loving and engaged as this video portrays. I'm being very hopeful here, but I truly hope that their love for this baby leads them down a healthier, more worldly (& intellectually + critically engaged) path as he gets older - so that they can devote more time and attention and love into him as he grows up, rather than replicating the cesspool of emotional neglect Jessa (and quite possibly, imo, Ben) grew into. This probably won't happen, and I'm not saying this video is an inherent sign that it will -- but if we start seeing Bin get his financial act together and pursue work outside of the Duggarsphere... there might be some hope.

I will admit: I do check Jessa's instagram pretty regularly just for baby updates, because 1) I too am pleasantly surprised by how loving and genuinely connected she seems to be towards her baby* and 2) HE IS JUST TOO CUTE. TOO. CUTE. I can't stop playing this video because it's really doing things to my heart. As much as I judge the crap out of Ben... I really hope he's being hands-on like this all the time (especially since he's able to make that time), rather than tossing aside the care of his son as "women's work" while he mows Daddy JimBoob's lawns. I hope this isn't a rare occurrence in that household: it surprised me to see Ben this present and engaged with him. 

(* = Much of why I got the impression that Jessa wouldn't be very loving as a mother was because of her attitude during her Sister Mom duties; she just seemed really tired and burned out by it all... I'm starting to reconsider just how much of that was out of her personal feelings towards younger children, and how much of that was out of resentment towards her shitty parents for making her be a Sister Mom 24/7)

And yes: I see a STARK, stark contrast to Jill's approach with Izzy compared with Jessa's approach to Spurgeon so far. There's just a vibe I'm getting from Jill's videos that makes me uneasy all the time - and between that and the one specific blanket Izzy has that always has toys on it, and the age-inappropriate swaddling... I'd be surprised if he wasn't being abused behind closed quarters, honestly. I'm not saying anything for sure, but the signs I'm noticing are questionable at best... and that's one too many signs for me to be comfortable with, knowing this family's past and Jill's unending desire to make her parents proud.

Of course, time will tell and my opinion may change, but... even with Izzy's earlier months, I just felt scared for him. With Spurgeon, I feel a very, very slight shred of hope for his future. Please, Ben and Jessa... PLEASE do the right thing and start working towards getting the hell away from this cult - not just for Spurgeon, but for the two of you as well. You have the capacity to be loving parents: take that love and let it drive your family towards planning for a happier, healthier life outside of the cult - however you can make that happen, getting as far away and independent as you can from the toxic Duggar regime is an investment in your future well worth making, over anything else...

I know my soapboxing is most likely in vain, but at the very least, I hope they are considering their options now that they have a baby they clearly love in their care. 
 

[Valerie3kids]

I do think there is a big difference between Jill and Jessa as mothers. I was in the camp of "Jill will be better" and "Jessa will be too busy taking selfies". In my eyes, I have seen just the opposite. Jessa seems much more engaged with her child and more in tune with her child. We have gotten a lot of "it's so hard to do with a baby" from Jill. That is certainly something both girls would have known from their family life. Jill seems more concerned about Derrick. Derrick seems more concerned about Derrick. I am not sure who except Cathy is concerned for Izzy. The pictures unsettle me a great deal. It is not something that sets well with me. Especially since there are never any "explanations" as to what is going on. Yes, we can say Jill had a traumatic birth but then so did Jessa.

I am beginning to think Jessa may live in a more real world than Jill does. Not the real world we think of but she took longer to get pregnant and seems to be actually spending time bonding with her infant. I do not recall Jill doing this. Izzy always seemed like some type of prop to both she and Derrick. Derrick has checked out in my opinion. He lost his father and thought the Duggars would fulfill some void in his life and he had no idea what he was actually getting in to. Now he has no way out. So he runs.

I would hope that some child/grandchild would stand a chance. Some where some time.

[violynn]

I don't know if Jessa and Ben are absolutely besotted with little Spurgeon or if they've learned how crucial talking, singing, engaging with your infant is for its development, but they're clearly doing it right.  He's very engaged with both of them and is 'verbal' so they aren't just doing it for the cameras.  

[ksgranola1]

That is a very daring insinuation you are making based on a few snippets of video of Izzy. Remember that we have seen many more pictures of Izzy smiling and happy than we have of him crying. And Derrick is there; he grew up in a loving home & adores Izzy. He would not allow his child to be abused. What's wrong w/him being on a blanket w/a few toys around him. Maybe the floors are cold. You are assuming b/c he is on a blanket, that he is being "blanket trained?" That's really a stretch. I don't think Jill is the pinhead you are claiming she is. We don't really know what the hell they do down there. But I wouldn't assume it is as useless as has been portrayed here. Of course Jessa is enamored by her baby. He is her first and he seems content. Jill on the other hand, has chosen to pursue something other than SAHM. I'm just sick of the unsubstantiated bashing that goes on here. At least bash on something legitimate.

[violynn]

6 minutes ago, ksgranola1 said:

That is a very daring insinuation you are making based on a few snippets of video of Izzy. Remember that we have seen many more pictures of Izzy smiling and happy than we have of him crying. And Derrick is there; he grew up in a loving home & adores Izzy. He would not allow his child to be abused. What's wrong w/him being on a blanket w/a few toys around him. Maybe the floors are cold. You are assuming b/c he is on a blanket, that he is being "blanket trained?" That's really a stretch. I don't think Jill is the pinhead you are claiming she is. We don't really know what the hell they do down there. But I wouldn't assume it is as useless as has been portrayed here. Of course Jessa is enamored by her baby. He is her first and he seems content. Jill on the other hand, has chosen to pursue something other than SAHM. I'm just sick of the unsubstantiated bashing that goes on here. At least bash on something legitimate.

[What the fux say]

I've been trying to find all these pictures and videos of poor Izzy screaming and whatnot and I guess I finally found them.  I just don't find them... very compelling.  Babies is weird.  Toddlers is weirder and Kids, well we won't even go there.  Taking a literal snapshot of a snapshot of time says nothing.  I think it's weird to jump to all sorts of conclusions based on minutae in these pics.  As for the bruises he has, well yeah.  Those kids grew up feral, it doesn't surprise me one bit that her own child would sorta be allowed to play rough too.  It's not like they were black eyes or bruises of fingers holding his upper arms for christ sake.  The swaddling is weird, but hey, not only is babies weird, grown ups with babies be weird too.

The only sort of judginess I can muster up is that really, you couldn't have waited a minute or given Izzy a treat or something so that cute picture with dad with the wigs and sunglasses could REALLY be a cute pic instead of a happy dad/screaming toddler pic?  I know I have tons of screaming baby, toddler, kid pics but for the love of all that's holy, I don't post them up on Instagram!

TL;DR - Saw the infamous pics of Izzy, I don't think he's abused, I think it's all being blown way out of proportion.  And babies be weird (important concept to be noted at least 3 times per post about babies)

[Bad Wolf]

Just saw the video, and it is definitely cute. Maybe they're reading books or checking the internet for good ways to stimulate the baby. Maybe they're just naturals.

I've often wondered about the littles being over stimulated with the chaos in the TTC.

That's TTH, not TTC. 

[mizandry]

54 minutes ago, ksgranola1 said:

That is a very daring insinuation you are making based on a few snippets of video of Izzy. Remember that we have seen many more pictures of Izzy smiling and happy than we have of him crying. And Derrick is there; he grew up in a loving home & adores Izzy. He would not allow his child to be abused. What's wrong w/him being on a blanket w/a few toys around him. Maybe the floors are cold. You are assuming b/c he is on a blanket, that he is being "blanket trained?" That's really a stretch. I don't think Jill is the pinhead you are claiming she is. We don't really know what the hell they do down there. But I wouldn't assume it is as useless as has been portrayed here. Of course Jessa is enamored by her baby. He is her first and he seems content. Jill on the other hand, has chosen to pursue something other than SAHM. I'm just sick of the unsubstantiated bashing that goes on here. At least bash on something legitimate.

This isn't ~unsubstantiated~, and you're making a huge assumption that it is. Also - way to put words in my mouth: I made a point to be very clear that this is just a feeling I get from context clues - that I would be surprised if it wasn't the case, but at no point did I state absolutes. You are the one doing that.

 I come from a background where I've had to identify abuse and my family's intense cycle of normalized abusive behavior from an early age, so yeah -- I'm not one to ignore any warning signs when I see them. Having some pictures of a smiling baby IS NOT PROOF that abuse isn't going on. Kids are able to smile even when their homelife is less than okay - that's a harmful idea to perpetuate, and I'm not saying you can't disagree - but coming at me like this for voicing concern? That's fucked up.

My whole point is that I see a difference in parenting styles JUST based on what little has been shared with the general public, and that's just what they're willing to share. You're drawing a lot of conclusions from my sentiments, and the knee-jerk defensiveness over concerns about abuse going on is a much bigger issue to me than the idea that my suspicions might not be accurate to real life. I'd rather worry and keep my eyes open than ignore a very real possibility we can't truly know either way - you'd have a standing if I'd actually made a factual assertion that he's being abused. I didn't.

I'm SUSPECTING based on what we know about the family's parenting methods (see: police reports) and Jill's unending desire to be just like her family. My feelings are coming from a VERY personal place, and I find it hurtful that this is your ultimate takeaway from my comment. I wasn't drawing a final conclusion about Izzy's home life, I was voicing concern over the many red flags I've been seeing. As someone who comes from a long family line of very severe physical, verbal, and sexual abuse --- I've heard many a story of red flags going ignored, for the sake of not "assuming." Which only made things worse. 

Again: not saying anything with absolute certainty - and it's not just about there being a blanket on the floor in some photos. That is not my issue. I just notice a pattern of there being ONE specific blanket he is ALWAYS on, with toys ALWAYS on it - do correct me if I'm mistaken, because I could be, but you never see pictures of the toys out of reach while he goes for them, of him being on a different blanket than the one they keep using, or on a rug -- and this is a family with PLENTY of "hand-me-downs" to choose from. That combined with JBoob and Michelle's parenting choices (again, see the police report)... just watch the show and you will see Jill has a reputation for fearing and wanting to please her parents, moreso than the other children. And in my mind, this only makes me more concerned for Izzy, because that likens the probability of her repeating the shitty things her parents have done under the guise of Godliness.

And that was only one example: another includes their choice to take photos of a sobbing, scared baby being swaddled so late in his life? That's just cruel on so many levels - and again, something they thought was okay to SHARE. What about the things they choose not to share? There is a really messed up thought process that goes into posting photos like that for the world to see, with no explanation or accountability towards that decision.

I hate the way people treat voiced suspicions about abuse -- like we all need to be silent when we get a bad sense until there is absolute confirmation that abuse is happening; that's exactly how people get away with it. This culture of silence needs to end.

And if they're not abusing Izzy? Great! I don't want that to be the case! But you are in no place to tell me I can't be worried by what I'm seeing, just because you're not noticing the red flags.
 

[Mercer]

59 minutes ago, ksgranola1 said:

Jill on the other hand, has chosen to pursue something other than SAHM.

Wait, what does Jill do other than being a SAHM?

My understanding is she quit language school and is not involving herself in delivering babies because she has Izzy at home.

[Bad Wolf]

Well, she's a SAHM in another country where she doesn't speak the language, so that's a bit different.

[SassyPants]

To be fair, Jill lives in a foreign country and is isolated without much day to day help with Izzy. Jessa lives down the road (or at least close by) to Duggarville, so her life IS much easier. In addition, Jessa has ALWAYS had a stay at home spouse to help out. There is no reason (unless health issues are involved) that Jessa shouldn't be happy, easy going and loving her set up.  Also, SS is an immobile baby, whereas Izzy is mobile which really changes the game. The Dillards were foolish for quitting a decent, local job and running off to a Central American praycation. Stupid move.

TTH- every.single.time= Tatter Tot House in my mind. LOL!

[Mercer]

For the record, there's nothing wrong with being a SAHM in the slightest, nor does it mean the person's time isn't occupied... I just don't see how it's an inaccurate description of Jill's lifestyle.

[catlady]

32 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

TTH- every.single.time= Tater Tot House in my mind. LOL!

haha!  when i was a newbie here, i honestly thought that's what people meant!!

[mizandry]

43 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

To be fair, Jill lives in a foreign country and is isolated without much day to day help with Izzy. Jessa lives down the road (or at least close by) to Duggarville, so her life IS much easier. In addition, Jessa has ALWAYS had a stay at home spouse to help out. There is no reason (unless health issues are involved) that Jessa shouldn't be happy, easy going and loving her set up.  Also, SS is an immobile baby, whereas Izzy is mobile which really changes the game. The Dillards were foolish for quitting a decent, local job and running off to a Central American praycation. Stupid move.

TTH- every.single.time= Tatter Tot House in my mind. LOL!

This is definitely true, and something I should keep in mind re: my levy of praise towards Jessa/comparisons between her and Jill. I can definitely understand that playing a pretty significant role in their attitudes towards their babies; for that oversight, I apologize.

I don't think Jill is an evil person, by any means: I believe she has really good intentions, but I also believe she's under immense pressure to be just like her parents. And knowing what little we know about her parents... they have a number of seriously dysfunctional ideas they have spent their entire adult lives trying to brainwash their kids into following as THE Godly Path. Their "ministry" show certainly didn't help matters, by any means.

It's the context through which I read most of her updates, because I'm concerned for this next generation of Duggars. Jill loves the crap out of her parents, and seems unwilling to challenge them in any conceivable way. Much of the praise towards her from Jim Bob and Michelle seemingly comes in the form of depicting her as the Example Child, who is an example because of things like being terrified enough of her father's anger to run and hide from him as a child and instantly obeying her parents with little question as to why, repeating all the party lines to her siblings because her parents are The Duggars, aka their God and primary role models for how to live life and avoid hellfire. She seems to operate almost entirely out of fear and that has consistently made me a bit sympathetic and concerned for her and her decision-making abilities.

I'm not just basing my impression off of one thing - it's a collective of observations from tormenting myself through almost every episode of the series just to try and understand WTF is going on with these people. I don't know the inner workings of that household to a T, but neither do any of us -- I can only go by what I'm taking from their facade and the police reports, and it strikes me as pretty bad.

Even without Jessa in the picture, my ongoing concern about the Dillards is definitely still there (and something I've largely kept to myself until now) -- but I realize this is off topic to the thread, and it's definitely not something I'm not looking to impress upon others as something they need to agree with or believe, or whatever. I'm still not completely sure myself -- just really suspicious. I just don't take kindly to being told my red flags going off and daring to try and voice that is somehow me just looking to "bash" a Duggar. That's a gross simplification of something I'm having really complex feelings about (which I recognize may not have come across over text - but is still relevant to my perspective).

The accusation couldn't be further from the truth, and it most definitely reads to me as a form of silencing re: discussions about abuse in general. It is a pattern I'm very familiar with, and in a lot of ways triggering for me.

(Also - I know your comment isn't entirely to or about me, I'm just aware that I changed the tone of the thread momentarily/am accounting for that in making this reply. To be clear, I'm not assuming your stance on any of this - just going off your comment to correct my unfair comparison + clarify my position re: Jill & Derick.)

[GreenTea]

21 hours ago, Bethella said:

But wasn't her name Prudence not Purity?

It was, but the nickname still works. Pure is better then Purity. Not by much though. 

[bingbangboom]

On February 3, 2016 at 3:28 PM, fraurosena said:

Awwww...you include Grover but leave out Elmo? 

When mr.boom was a baby, His dad apparently lied to an elderly neighbor about him being a twin for a few months. He said mr. Booms twin was named Elmo Lincoln.

[bjr70]

But wasn't her name Prudence not Purity?

Yeah it was definitely Prudence.

I went to school with sisters Prudence and Patience. There was also Cricket and her sister Rainbow, and Stormy, Misty, and Cloudy. In a school with just under 400 kids. [emoji15]

[nst]

1 hour ago, mizandry said:

This is definitely true, and something I should keep in mind re: my levy of praise towards Jessa/comparisons between her and Jill. I can definitely understand that playing a pretty significant role in their attitudes towards their babies; for that oversight, I apologize.

I don't think Jill is an evil person, by any means: I believe she has really good intentions, but I also believe she's under immense pressure to be just like her parents. And knowing what little we know about her parents... they have a number of seriously dysfunctional ideas they have spent their entire adult lives trying to brainwash their kids into following as THE Godly Path. Their "ministry" show certainly didn't help matters, by any means.

It's the context through which I read most of her updates, because I'm concerned for this next generation of Duggars. Jill loves the crap out of her parents, and seems unwilling to challenge them in any conceivable way. Much of the praise towards her from Jim Bob and Michelle seemingly comes in the form of depicting her as the Example Child, who is an example because of things like being terrified enough of her father's anger to run and hide from him as a child and instantly obeying her parents with little question as to why, repeating all the party lines to her siblings because her parents are The Duggars, aka their God and primary role models for how to live life and avoid hellfire. She seems to operate almost entirely out of fear and that has consistently made me a bit sympathetic and concerned for her and her decision-making abilities.

I'm not just basing my impression off of one thing - it's a collective of observations from tormenting myself through almost every episode of the series just to try and understand WTF is going on with these people. I don't know the inner workings of that household to a T, but neither do any of us -- I can only go by what I'm taking from their facade and the police reports, and it strikes me as pretty bad.

Even without Jessa in the picture, my ongoing concern about the Dillards is definitely still there (and something I've largely kept to myself until now) -- but I realize this is off topic to the thread, and it's definitely not something I'm not looking to impress upon others as something they need to agree with or believe, or whatever. I'm still not completely sure myself -- just really suspicious. I just don't take kindly to being told my red flags going off and daring to try and voice that is somehow me just looking to "bash" a Duggar. That's a gross simplification of something I'm having really complex feelings about (which I recognize may not have come across over text - but is still relevant to my perspective).

The accusation couldn't be further from the truth, and it most definitely reads to me as a form of silencing re: discussions about abuse in general. It is a pattern I'm very familiar with, and in a lot of ways triggering for me.

(Also - I know your comment isn't entirely to or about me, I'm just aware that I changed the tone of the thread momentarily/am accounting for that in making this reply. To be clear, I'm not assuming your stance on any of this - just going off your comment to correct my unfair comparison + clarify my position re: Jill & Derick.)

its totally on topic 

you say Jill doesn't question her parents which is true

Ben and Jessa both said in their people magazine article before the pregnancy - they question now and it's ok because they know their parents made mistakes 

so ding dong - ben may be the edgypreacher - but he is questioning his upbringing so I bet he will make Jessa to a degree question hers and if that means singing a normal song 

all the more power to her 

[bashfulpixie]

15 minutes ago, bjr70 said:

Yeah it was definitely Prudence.

 

I went to school with sisters Prudence and Patience. There was also Cricket and her sister Rainbow, and Stormy, Misty, and Cloudy. In a school with just under 400 kids.

Rainbow, Stormy and Cloudy?  Did you go to school with the My Little Ponies?  Or the Care Bears?  All joking aside, why would someone do that to their child?

[Kjaerringa]

When I taught near Lafayette, Indiana, I had twins....Stormy Dawn and Misty Dawn.....and in the same class had a girl named Summer. In another grade, I had Spring, Rain, and Willow.

[HarleyQuinn]

20 hours ago, FundiesInParis said:

Did that really happen?

That's so sad. 

Yep. When Jill and Derick were on the Today show (I think?) Right after they announced she was pregnant and she was still trying to stick her stomach out to make herself look like she was more than just bloated.