Jill Duggar Dillard Part 9: They slosh through the rain.

[Johanna25]

14 hours ago, InThePrayerCloset said:

 

AT least SOS is very clear that they are only helping people in their afterlife, and not in their actual life...

Here is a question for all those that know fundie religious philosophy better than me... Do Gothards believe that suffering in life gives you an "express past" to heaven? I volunteered for an Anglican charity for about 4 weeks until it became clear that this charity focused on social disadvantage wasn't really into helping people in this life because their suffering on earth would speed up and ensure them salvation in heaven ... the focus was on converting them to ensure that all their suffering on earth paid off because they knew Jesus! Does Gothard / SOS have a similar philosophy? We're not going to give you clean water because, if you know Jesus, that cholera will really help you get into the express queue to heaven!

Glorification of suffering is more an aspect of Catholicism than Protestantism. As a matter of fact that is the big rap against Mother Teresa. Her hospitals did not attempt to cure or relieve the pain of her inmates, merely house them on their way to their deaths and encourage them to pray and repent. As a child in Catholic schools, the nuns told us to "offer up" our pain to Jesus in expiation for our sins. They might tell people with afflictions that God chose them for that cross to bear because he knew they could bear it. Pain in this world might earn you greater glory in heaven.

Protestants are more likely to glorify money and success as evidence of God's favor rather than pain and suffering. It's part ofthe "Faith" and "Works" arguments we've gotten into in the Shrader discussions. Offering up pain is like expecting good works to earn you a place in heaven.

[snarkysuki1724]

5 hours ago, Zola said:

Has anybody ever been to Hershey Park? It really, truly is the sweetest smelling place on Earth.

I would LOVE to go there!  I can't convince my DH and DS to go though!  

[snarkysuki1724]

14 minutes ago, Johanna25 said:

Glorification of suffering is more an aspect of Catholicism than Protestantism. As a matter of fact that is the big rap against Mother Teresa. Her hospitals did not attempt to cure or relieve the pain of her inmates, merely house them on their way to their deaths and encourage them to pray and repent. As a child in Catholic schools, the nuns told us to "offer up" our pain to Jesus in expiation for our sins. They might tell people with afflictions that God chose them for that cross to bear because he knew they could bear it. Pain in this world might earn you greater glory in heaven.

Protestants are more likely to glorify money and success as evidence of God's favor rather than pain and suffering. It's part ofthe "Faith" and "Works" arguments we've gotten into in the Shrader discussions. Offering up pain is like expecting good works to earn you a place in heaven.

Absolutely Johanna25 !!!!  I endured 12 years of Catholic schooling, mostly nuns for elementary school.  I had bad asthma as a child and the nuns were nice to me, they said that it was my "cross to bear" and that I was special in Jesus' eyes because I was sick all the time. I also remember being told that when I was upset or something was bothering me that I needed to "offer it up" to Jesus.

Sister Christina also told us that "colored"people had an extra bone that Jesus gave them just for dancing. (!!!!)  I believed it until Freshman year of high school when I mentioned it to a black friend and she was like "WTF are you talking about" 

 

 

 

[RabbitKM]

I wonder why people are always posting things like, "I wonder how Cathy feels about Derick" or "feels about Izzy" or any combo of things.  We haven't seen any signs that she is upset with the way things are turning out.  For all we know, she may have steered him in this direction.  Just something I was thinking about.

[Mercer]

I find it interesting that so many of the young adult Duggars and their spouses seem fascinated by jobs that require an education (midwife/nurse, pastor, missionary, counselor, political lobbyist/lawyer, etc.) but rather than going to school so they can obtain a job like that, they find a way to create a facsimile of it by essentially playing dress-up.

On the one hand, I blame Jim Bob and Michelle for not providing the kids with a solid education and not encouraging them to pursue the careers of their interest.

On the other hand, though, these are adults, married people, parents of children. At some point they have to be expected to take responsibility for their own future too. At this point there is no one who can prevent Jill from getting an education except Jill.

Unfortunately, I don't think the Duggar kids learned any self-motivation growing up, and they haven't developed any on their own.

I don't think Jill actually wants to do anything more than play dress-up, as sad as that is.

 

[sisterwives]

5 hours ago, kimhoward said:

Never go to Florida in August!  Period.  

My cousin works at Disney and gave me some free passes to use just before Christmas. It was a nice 75 degrees and there were no crowds. Plus the tickets were free. Disney is an entirely different place when you haven't paid $90/day to be there and desperately want to eek out every last ounce of fun.

Gosh I wish I could've gone during a colder month but my nephew's birthday is in August so it was a birthday trip for him. We tried to convince my sister to maybe go later in the year but she refused saying "It wouldn't be the same as going on his birthday!" So a group of 11 of us travelled over there and the rest is history. Going in December sounds amazing, I'll probably do that in a few years.

[PennySycamore]

24 minutes ago, sisterwives said:

Gosh I wish I could've gone during a colder month but my nephew's birthday is in August so it was a birthday trip for him. We tried to convince my sister to maybe go later in the year but she refused saying "It wouldn't be the same as going on his birthday!" So a group of 11 of us travelled over there and the rest is history. Going in December sounds amazing, I'll probably do that in a few years.

We went in early December and everything was decorated for Christmas and Hannukah. They even had a "snow" shower at night in the Magic Kingdom. Or maybe it was Hollywood Studios.  Some days were really cold though as Orlando had a cold snap.  If you do go in December, do bring some warm clothes even if it's predicted to be warm. You'll enjoy it more if you're not freezing.  And go go see the life-size gingerbread house in the Grand Floridian.  It is amazing and the aroma is divine!  The monorail stops at the hotel.

[fraurosena]

8 hours ago, RabbitKM said:

I wonder why people are always posting things like, "I wonder how Cathy feels about Derick" or "feels about Izzy" or any combo of things.  We haven't seen any signs that she is upset with the way things are turning out.  For all we know, she may have steered him in this direction.  Just something I was thinking about.

I've been wondering this too. I remember in one of the episodes, after Derick came back from Nepal, everyone was gathering at the TTH. Cathy was also there and she hugged Michelle, who was gushing about Derick being so godly and all. I remember Cathy said something like: "Well, I raised him just like you did yours." Or something to that effect. I've been trying to find that scene for some time now, but so far I haven't had any luck. As soon as I do I will post it here.

Anyway, combine this with the fact that there is photographic evidence (someone on FJ posted it, don't know who) that Cathy and JB and M knew eachother before the whole courtship stuff, I'm pretty convinced Cathy has at least drunk some of the koolaid. So I agree with you, it is entirely possible that she steered him to the Duggars. Or at the very least gave her blessing to it. 

[WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?]

17 hours ago, kimhoward said:

When I was a kid in the 70s, I had a 45 record that played "it's a small world" in four different languages! I can still sing the song in some of them. :-)

I've been enjoying the Disney drift.  My siblings and I shared a 45 record of "It's a Small World"! It had a story on one side about a boy who got lost at Disneyland and the song on the other side. 

My aunt and uncle used to live about an hour from Disneyland, so we got to visit there every few years. (I've never been to WDW. Maybe someday.) My 3 most memorable visits were in 1976 (the bicentennial celebration, stars and stripes everywhere!), the summer of 1984 (the LA Olympics left the park almost empty), and just after Christmas later in 1984 (record attendance and a HUGE contrast to the empty summer visit). I remember how fun it was when they stopped requiring tickets for the rides. (There never seemed to be enough E tickets to go on all the good rides.) Now I'm all nostalgic. 

[nokidsmom]

19 hours ago, amandaaries said:

<snip> I'm still trying to parse Derrick.  He did make that comment about leaving Arkansas to protect his family, but I'm still confused about how he's doing that.  My best bet is that, sadly and irrationally, he moved away from the secular world and into the gravitational pull of JB and the cult intentionally.  I still suspect that his father's sudden passing greatly impacted this horrible decision.  Grief is strange.  I lost my father at a fairly young age, while in college, and some of the decisions I made even years after his death were clearly influenced by that sense of loss.  For Derrick, finding this close-knit family and a pseudo-father figure/prayer partner in JB, and then getting hooked up with a loving and adoring-eyed wife -- what a find!  Clearly God's blessings, right?  Until he has to face the long-term aspects of this union and all it stands for, including having Josh as a BIL and discovering...let's say, the deficits of his wife's education and personal development.

The theory that Derick's father's death may be behind Derick's decisions leading him into the Duggar clutches is quite plausible and I have wondered about it myself.  It were be perfectly understandable for Derick to seek a father figure, see JB as this great dad of the "wholesome Christian family" and seek him out as a prayer partnter and dad figure.  I personally know one guy who has done this in the wake of his parents' divorce, he went very fundie, marrying into a fundie family, incidentally the daughter of the man he himself sought out as a prayer partner.  So this has played out before.

I know it's been disappointing for folks here to see Derick not lead Jill out of fundieland.   I myself thought that one they married, he might be able to launch Jill into the real world but unfortunately he seems to have been sucked into the Duggar borg.  To be fair, I don't think that he can withstand the power of JB which clearly hangs over his daughters.  Also, by going through courtship, he didn't get a chance to know Jill better before they married and now only after marriage does he really see how his wife is lacking in education and real world experience.

To the bolded: Derick and Jill have only been married for a short time, so I think he hasn't fully grasped yet how he married into, but I think he's had to have had some real WTF moments in recent months.

And as far as Cathy goes, who knows what she really thinks.   I think she's just trying to support her son and she probably had no inkling of the issues within the family any more than Derick.  What is she going to do now, other than just be there for her son, DIL and grandkid.  It's not like she can control the situation.   As far as questions that Cathy could "allow" Derick to marry Jill, Derick is a grown man, he doesn't need her permission.   There's no point in alienating them.  Maybe some day when the shit really hits the fan, she will need to be there for her son. 

[19 cats and counting]

16 hours ago, sisterwives said:

I went to Disney World this past summer in August and not gonna lie, it was probably the most miserable time of my life. I spent most of my time there crying and hiding in the air conditioned gift shops and only went on the water rides. It was just SO HOT, I felt like I couldn't breathe. Being in Florida for a week showed me that I'm not made for hot weather and the Midwest is perfect for me weather wise.

That was the time I went as a kid.  It was miserable and my fondest memories involve afternoon breaks at the hotel pool.  

I'd much rather deal with a permanent polar vortex than Orlando in August.

[Screamapillar]

6 hours ago, fraurosena said:

I've been wondering this too. I remember in one of the episodes, after Derick came back from Nepal, everyone was gathering at the TTH. Cathy was also there and she hugged Michelle, who was gushing about Derick being so godly and all. I remember Cathy said something like: "Well, I raised him just like you did yours." Or something to that effect. I've been trying to find that scene for some time now, but so far I haven't had any luck. As soon as I do I will post it here. 

I remember that too. I always tend to think the worst of Michelle, and the best of innocent bystanders in her path, so hoped it was just Cathy's way of being polite to a weirdo. It was a very weird thing (in my opinion) to say to a mother about her child, but we know that being godly is the only quality that JB and Michelle care about in children. It's not like Michelle was going to say, "Derick is so college educated, good job!" And Cathy did raise her children to believe in God, so when she said "I raised him just like you did yours" to Michelle, hopefully that's all she was referring to. Derick and his brother don't appear to have been blanket trained and prayer closeted, at least.

ETA: Is it wrong that I'm a little bit proud of triggering the Disney thread drift by bringing up It's a Small World? I love Disney!

[librarychick]

I have always wanted to go to Disney World. Unfortunately, I have a fear of heights so I would probably not ride anything once I got there. Plus I am uncomfortable with people in masks ( an irrational fear left from childhood) so I would be creeped out by the characters.  If I ever went to Disney, I would most likely end up just riding the teacups or something.  Lol

[keen23]

17 hours ago, sisterwives said:

I went to Disney World this past summer in August and not gonna lie, it was probably the most miserable time of my life. I spent most of my time there crying and hiding in the air conditioned gift shops and only went on the water rides. It was just SO HOT, I felt like I couldn't breathe. Being in Florida for a week showed me that I'm not made for hot weather and the Midwest is perfect for me weather wise.

My best friend in high school had a vacation house in Kissimmee FL (actually, her parents owned multiple homes in Kissimmee, but this is the one they saved for personal use). Her family would get annual passes every year, and spent every vacation at Disney. For two summers, I spent the month of July with them in Florida. We were teens, so we'd get up late, get dropped off at the park, and come home after it closed. It was fun for teens. I'd probably hate it as an adult.

[PennySycamore]

19 minutes ago, librarychick said:

I have always wanted to go to Disney World. Unfortunately, I have a fear of heights so I would probably not ride anything once I got there. Plus I am uncomfortable with people in masks ( an irrational fear left from childhood) so I would be creeped out by the characters.  If I ever went to Disney, I would most likely end up just riding the teacups or something.  Lol

There's plenty to enjoy even if you're afraid of heights, like the Mad Tea Party (aka the tea cups), Pirates of the Caribbean, Haunted Mansion, the various boat cruises (Jungle Cruise and Rivers of America and the boat ride between parks), the fireworks, Epcot, Animal Kingdom, and Hollywood Studios, and on an on.  As far as being afraid of people in masks, that's mostly the cartoon characters and Goofy is not going to rush up and hug you. Many of the characters are people in costumes like Mary Poppins and Mulan.  

[Gimme a Free RV]

7 hours ago, fraurosena said:

I remember Cathy said something like: "Well, I raised him just like you did yours." Or something to that effect. I've been trying to find that scene for some time now, but so far I haven't had any luck. As soon as I do I will post it here.

IIRC, she said "Well, we raised them from the same book!"--meaning, the Bible, meaning, Jill and Derrick each had a biblical upbringing.  Cathy probably didn't realize, at that time, just how legalistic and Goatheard-ized the Duggars were.

[2manyKidzzz]

As I have watched the DuggarTrainwreck, what I noticed about Cathy Dillard Byrum is that she is just not full of herself. Meechelle thinks she is so Speshul, and so does her Headship. Cathy is low key and did not, whatever her religious beliefs, have a bzillioin kids. I admire herstrength enduring the cancer treatment. And as was stated upthread, Derick does not need to ask her permission as to whom he marries. She seems to stand out as a sane person in the Trainwreck Dialogue. She is not extreme one way or the other. And I have learned all of  this from watching her on TV so it must be true. 

[karen77]

11 hours ago, PennySycamore said:

We went in early December and everything was decorated for Christmas and Hannukah. They even had a "snow" shower at night in the Magic Kingdom. Or maybe it was Hollywood Studios.  Some days were really cold though as Orlando had a cold snap.  If you do go in December, do bring some warm clothes even if it's predicted to be warm. You'll enjoy it more if you're not freezing.  And go go see the life-size gingerbread house in the Grand Floridian.  It is amazing and the aroma is divine!  The monorail stops at the hotel.

We were just there at the beginning of last month!! definitely cooler and lower crowd levels (hit it in July of the year before). Was quite pleasant, other than we weren't staying in the villas this time.

[Pixiedust1960]

I want to go to Disney World. It's been around 12 years since I've been. 

[MoonFace]

6 hours ago, librarychick said:

I have always wanted to go to Disney World. Unfortunately, I have a fear of heights so I would probably not ride anything once I got there. Plus I am uncomfortable with people in masks ( an irrational fear left from childhood) so I would be creeped out by the characters.  If I ever went to Disney, I would most likely end up just riding the teacups or something.  Lol

The Teacups are great.   Also, there are rides that don't go up in the air - like It's a Small World .   Also loved the little boat like ride  in "Mexico" in Epcot. 

 

[MatthewDuggar]

1 hour ago, MoonFace said:

The Teacups are great.   Also, there are rides that don't go up in the air - like It's a Small World .   Also loved the little boat like ride  in "Mexico" in Epcot. 

 

Plus all the shows, parades, fireworks, roaming characters, food, hidden mickeys, art, etc etc etc  - There is way more than just rides high in the air....

[Valerie3kids]

13 minutes ago, MatthewDuggar said:

Plus all the shows, parades, fireworks, roaming characters, food, hidden mickeys, art, etc etc etc  - There is way more than just rides high in the air....

I like to go and ride the monorail. Yes. very silly but we all get a kick out of watching all the people and how they handle themselves.

[twinmama]

On 1/7/2016 at 4:32 AM, Karma said:

We went on Pirates 17 times in three days (what can I say except mr karma is addicted to it).  At about 15 minutes a ride, that's over 4 hours. It was winter, and there was no queue.  It was weeks before "yo ho ho oh a pirates life for me" stopped playing in my head.

For a while I lived maybe 10 minutes from Disneyland and sometimes my roommate and I would have dinner and just be all "Hey wanna go ride space mountain a few times?" and we'd go to Disney just to do that, since we had annual passes. THAT was fun, just going to do a few things rather than 12 hour days there in long lines and heat. Though I'm 99% sure my favorite ride was Indiana Jones, by far!

[MatthewDuggar]

1 hour ago, Valerie3kids said:

I like to go and ride the monorail. Yes. very silly but we all get a kick out of watching all the people and how they handle themselves.

Not silly at all.  They seriously need to expand the monorail system and get rid of the horrible bus system.

[Bad Wolf]

I took my parents to DL when they were in their 70s. My mother laughed so hard on the jungle cruise, I thought she would fall out of the boat. My dad loved the train, and the aaall aboooard.

When we took our kids and later grandkid, we always rode those in their memory. Haven't been for 6 years, but love Disneyland.