Jill and Jessa Duggar Special Sunday Dec 13 - Merge

[helenprev]

On 12/16/2015 at 0:19 PM, Smchugh1304 said:

Episode on YouTube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5SbS3q9w6o

Ack! Missed it already - it's been pulled. Now I have no choice but to stop procrastinating and do some housework...

[lascuba]

I think if/when the Duggars return to TLC with the same schedule they had before, their ratings will be the comparable to what they were pre-scandal. Whatever amount of actual fans they've permanently lost--and I don't think it's that many--will be offset by an increase in hate-watchers. The question is if TLC will be able to get enough sponsors, and for that to happen sponsors will have to decide if the amount of viewers will make up for the amount of people who will stop using their products. And honestly, I don't think there would be a big enough boycott to be concerning to them. They've begged off for now because the scandal is so recent and the negative publicity so hot, but they'll be back, slowly but surely, and once that happens and the show has been back on for a while, the media will go back to being as credulous regarding the Duggars as they always were.
 

In other words, the world is a terrible place and terrible people always win.

[HarleyQuinn]

I'm a few pages late but count me as one of those that doesn't get too bent out of shape when people say babies aren't cute. Not all are. I was definitely not a cute baby. I don't think Israel is either, but it's okay. He could grow out of his Jim Bob looks some day. Most get cuter once they start getting more of a personality anyways. 

[Funwithfundies]

2 hours ago, InThePrayerCloset said:

I in no way want to diminish you're experience with EDS. I'm genuinely curious - why do i get lots of zebra's when i google image Ehlers Danlos Syndrome?? My results are 80% zebras... and i'm confused... Is it an animal emblem of the disease? Like Neurontin uses porcupines for chronic pain? Or is my google just fucking with me?

Totally agree with your comments regardless of what specific genetic issue (if any) is going on with d.

I also have Ehlers Danlos Syndrome (type 3, the most 'common').  Over the years, the zebra has become the 'mascot' of EDS due to the difficulty folks have in getting an accurate diagnosis.  It references that old line that (apparently) most docs are taught in med school: "If you hear hoof beats, think horses, not zebras".  Which is all well and good, but many doctors rely on it too heavily, thinking that even patients with matching symptoms can't possibly have such a 'rare' disorder.  

 My son was very sick for years - I can't tell you the number of doctors I asked whether he has EDS, only to be told no (and some not so nicely, at that).  These were docs who should have known better (rheumatologists, physical medicine, etc).  We finally found a good medical geneticist who confirmed what I suspected but was too afraid to ask given how my questions had been treated to that point:  All five members of my family - me, DH, and three kids - have EDS.  Long story short, it's not nearly as rare as most docs were taught in med school.  And if they don't bother to keep up with the literature, they don't know, and continue to label zebras as horses...

[Funwithfundies]

2 hours ago, nastyhobbitses said:

As I've said before, I think that if Israel was disabled, they'd milk that shit for all it's worth. They'd have a big Yay We Didn't Abort You self-congratulation speaking tour. Josie got to be the "We're so great for not leaving our not-completely-perfect baby on a hillside to die" mascot, and she, as far as we know, is pretty much fine apart from possible epilepsy. If Israel had a major genetic issue or disability, they'd jump on that as part of their redemption/We're So Godly/please give us money tour.

I totally agree, however many folks with connective tissue disorders (Ehlers Danlos Syndrome, Marfan) have no idea until their health (or that of a family member) takes a nosedive.  Even then, you'd have to either be willing to research on your own, and/or find a CTD knowledgable doctor, something I don't see these people doing.  Derrick may very well have a CTD, in which case odds are that quite a few of their future bazillion kids will as well, but they appear to be clueless about Derick's (obvious to me) health issues, so I doubt they're on the lookout for any signs with Israel (most of which are very hard to see in a baby anyway).

[slickcat79]

9 hours ago, Kittikatz said:

At risk of being run over by a hit-stroller, I have to say I'm with you on this. To me, babies are the furthest thing from cute - they all look like terrifying aliens intent on leaking bodily fluids from every available orrifice . I don't think I have ever told a friend that their baby was cute or not cute. Protocol for Kittikatz meeting an infant is usually  something along the lines of telling the parent(s) congratulations, and that it looks to be growing well, or is in possession of a lot of hair, or wearing a nice outfit, followed by a quick pet of the child's hair (in the direction of hair growth so as not to risk causing it any upset) and a "good baby" directed toward the infant, cue smile and slide away ... Non specific things that focus on positives while making my discomfort with said baby apparent - all in a valliant effort to avoid being made to hold the dread baby. 

IMO children start to get cute and interesting when they are old enough to be a little independent and do things in the real world. Kindergarten age and up often seem cute to me.... Of course, I have zero intentions of ever bringing a baby into the world, so my opinion isnt likely to wind up scaring an innocent chilld.  Cat babies all the way!

Hahaha, so me (hmm, that is a neat possibly-a-cat emoji)

I usually channel fundies and go with "precious" for babies because I'm sure the baby is very precious to its family. Or just focus on congratulating/commiserating with the parents who have had their lives turned upside down but are probably very happy and proud about the whole thing.

[hauntedoklahoma]

1 hour ago, freethemall said:

 

I liked how Derrick tried to feed her waffle and she waved it away

She had a mouth full of food and was chewing; I think that's why she waved it away.

[InThePrayerCloset]

46 minutes ago, Funwithfundies said:

I also have Ehlers Danlos Syndrome (type 3, the most 'common').  Over the years, the zebra has become the 'mascot' of EDS due to the difficulty folks have in getting an accurate diagnosis.  It references that old line that (apparently) most docs are taught in med school: "If you hear hoof beats, think horses, not zebras".  Which is all well and good, but many doctors rely on it too heavily, thinking that even patients with matching symptoms can't possibly have such a 'rare' disorder.  

 My son was very sick for years - I can't tell you the number of doctors I asked whether he has EDS, only to be told no (and some not so nicely, at that).  These were docs who should have known better (rheumatologists, physical medicine, etc).  We finally found a good medical geneticist who confirmed what I suspected but was too afraid to ask given how my questions had been treated to that point:  All five members of my family - me, DH, and three kids - have EDS.  Long story short, it's not nearly as rare as most docs were taught in med school.  And if they don't bother to keep up with the literature, they don't know, and continue to label zebras as horses...

Wow, thank you for your response! that makes perfect sense, i just wasn't sure if google image just had a bug in it! i hope your son is doing better now. xx

[SassyPants]

I can see special episodes here and there but there is no way part of this family is going to carry a series, UNLESS it's a group that has decided to walk away.

OTOH, Anna might be able to pull it off alone, if she decided to walk away.

[BackseatMom]

TLC returning to actual learning - ha! That will be the day.

[Funwithfundies]

1 hour ago, InThePrayerCloset said:

Wow, thank you for your response! that makes perfect sense, i just wasn't sure if google image just had a bug in it! i hope your son is doing better now. xx

Thanks - he still has a lot of health issues, but at least we (and his doctors) know what we're dealing with.  As an aside, I had a good laugh at Google messing with you - I can totally see how the zebra thing wouldn't make any sense at first!

[Cleopatra7]

5 hours ago, lascuba said:

I think if/when the Duggars return to TLC with the same schedule they had before, their ratings will be the comparable to what they were pre-scandal. Whatever amount of actual fans they've permanently lost--and I don't think it's that many--will be offset by an increase in hate-watchers. The question is if TLC will be able to get enough sponsors, and for that to happen sponsors will have to decide if the amount of viewers will make up for the amount of people who will stop using their products. And honestly, I don't think there would be a big enough boycott to be concerning to them. They've begged off for now because the scandal is so recent and the negative publicity so hot, but they'll be back, slowly but surely, and once that happens and the show has been back on for a while, the media will go back to being as credulous regarding the Duggars as they always were.
 

In other words, the world is a terrible place and terrible people always win.

The question, however, is whether the Duggars would want to be on a show that only revolves around airing their dirty laundry. They justified having the show in the first place by calling it a "ministry." There's no pretense now about Counting On being a "ministry" or even being an honest look at incest or infidelity. The Duggars may be glad to be on TV for the money, but they can't go back to being the Christian role models and political figures they once were.

[Rajah061014]

4 hours ago, Funwithfundies said:

I also have Ehlers Danlos Syndrome (type 3, the most 'common').  Over the years, the zebra has become the 'mascot' of EDS due to the difficulty folks have in getting an accurate diagnosis.  It references that old line that (apparently) most docs are taught in med school: "If you hear hoof beats, think horses, not zebras".  Which is all well and good, but many doctors rely on it too heavily, thinking that even patients with matching symptoms can't possibly have such a 'rare' disorder.  

 My son was very sick for years - I can't tell you the number of doctors I asked whether he has EDS, only to be told no (and some not so nicely, at that).  These were docs who should have known better (rheumatologists, physical medicine, etc).  We finally found a good medical geneticist who confirmed what I suspected but was too afraid to ask given how my questions had been treated to that point:  All five members of my family - me, DH, and three kids - have EDS.  Long story short, it's not nearly as rare as most docs were taught in med school.  And if they don't bother to keep up with the literature, they don't know, and continue to label zebras as horses...

Hi! I have EDS too (our geneticist actually thinks my brother and I have both Marfan Syndrome and EDS). It is actually a fairly rare disorder, so it's nice to run into to someone outside of my family who has it. 

[pnwgypsy]

I wonder if Derek was rushing to get his dental work done before he lost his insurance from WalMart?

Also, I wonder if Derek is getting regular medical care.  With his dad's health history, he's not exactly someone who should be avoiding routine check ups.

[lascuba]

39 minutes ago, Cleopatra7 said:

The question, however, is whether the Duggars would want to be on a show that only revolves around airing their dirty laundry. They justified having the show in the first place by calling it a "ministry." There's no pretense now about Counting On being a "ministry" or even being an honest look at incest or infidelity. The Duggars may be glad to be on TV for the money, but they can't go back to being the Christian role models and political figures they once were.

They wouldn't, and I don't think they'd have to. At a guess, these specials are to get the dirty laundry out of the way so they can get back to business as usual while claiming that they addressed the scandals so no more has to be said. I see no reason why they and TLC wouldn't still push the ministry angle...all they'd have to do is talk about the redemptive power of Christianity, and how you don't have to be perfect to be a good Christian as long as you repent and blah blah blah, and that's only if they bother alluding to the scandals at all.  It's bullshit, we all know it, but considering just how bad the show was long before the scandals--boring and obviously scripted--and how popular it was in spite of that, I think it's a bad idea to underestimate the naivete of viewers. TV execs are extremely cynical, and no one at TLC is going to have  problem letting the Duggars be Christian role models as long as the ratings don't suffer.

[mebeforee]

The question, however, is whether the Duggars would want to be on a show that only revolves around airing their dirty laundry. They justified having the show in the first place by calling it a "ministry." There's no pretense now about Counting On being a "ministry" or even being an honest look at incest or infidelity. The Duggars may be glad to be on TV for the money, but they can't go back to being the Christian role models and political figures they once were.

I don't think the Duggars would really care as long as they stay on the air. Money is king to them. They will find a way to spin it into still being ministry. It's not all that hard either, just something like 'it's important for people to see us walk through challenges and how our faith keeps us strong and connected as a family' etc. I also think that TLC has made it easy for sponsors to come back.

They talk about Josh but I don't think they'll ever have HIM back on the show again, even in a 'homecoming' episode. His face on tv, him getting money for an appearance, would be unacceptable. I also think they're aware that JB and Michelle have largely burned their bridges and cannot be a strong presence on the show anymore. As long as they stay focused on the sisters and older kids, and on Anna who people have probably the most sympathy for right now, they will probably get some sponsors to come back without guilt. But any episode Josh actually appears in probably will lose sponsor support.

[SassyPants]

1 hour ago, pnwgypsy said:

I wonder if Derek was rushing to get his dental work done before he lost his insurance from WalMart?

Also, I wonder if Derek is getting regular medical care.  With his dad's health history, he's not exactly someone who should be avoiding routine check ups.

Of course he did.

21 minutes ago, mebeforee said:

I don't think the Duggars would really care as long as they stay on the air. Money is king to them. They will find a way to spin it into still being ministry. It's not all that hard either, just something like 'it's important for people to see us walk through challenges and how our faith keeps us strong and connected as a family' etc. I also think that TLC has made it easy for sponsors to come back.

They talk about Josh but I don't think they'll ever have HIM back on the show again, even in a 'homecoming' episode. His face on tv, him getting money for an appearance, would be unacceptable. I also think they're aware that JB and Michelle have largely burned their bridges and cannot be a strong presence on the show anymore. As long as they stay focused on the sisters and older kids, and on Anna who people have probably the most sympathy for right now, they will probably get some sponsors to come back without guilt. But any episode Josh actually appears in probably will lose sponsor support.

What would a show with the Duggar girls and Anna (without Josh or his parents) look like? What would it be about? The girls don't do anything. What would be the premise? TLC cannot show them doing the dirty and the only other thing they do is give birth...3 ladies giving birth. Anyone who has witnessed a labor/birth or experienced those events, knows it's not that entertaining.

[EmmieJ]

15 hours ago, Arrowoftruth said:

... I'm supposed to get my paycheck tomorrow and am wondering if I do get a Christmas bonus, would it be in this check or is it more common to be given the day before the office closes on holidays?

I always wished employers would generally give out Christmas bonuses on the check issued near the 15th of the month, but it's been my experience more often than not, that the bonus comes right at the end of the year.  Either way, I'm glad to get the bonus but that has often meant I have to charge my Christmas gifts and then use the bonus check to pay off the credit card.

[mebeforee]

The show would end up being basically the same as it used to be, but focused on the young parents rather than JB and Michelle. Basically like every Josh and Anna special pre-scandals. A couple of young parents going on field trips with their adult siblings and babysitting all the younger kids while doing so. Discussing finances and goals and doing an occasional Bates party. Just as boring as it used to be only it includes the tragic figure that Anna has become (and in time probably elevating her to a living idol of forgiveness and mercy)

And it wouldn't be interesting to most people, who prefer shows with some kind of conflict and resolution. But all those people looking for a good wholesome family who are willing to disregard Josh as the single bad seed will still watch it, just like they used to.

[mebeforee]

ETA "good wholesome family" should probably be in quotations, since it's clearly not true.

[SassyPants]

But JB and Michelle were young parents with 19 children, making them vastly different from other families.

There is nothing unique about Jessa, Ben, Spawn or Jill, Derick and Izzy. I know the mission aspect is tying hard to fit that bill, but until The Dillards can effectively communicate and are shown to be actually working in the mission field, all it comes off as by most, is a longterm vacation in the tropics.

I'm  just not seeing it.

If people want to be entertained by mainstream American lives, they can turn off their TVs and look at the family lives surrounding them.

[mebeforee]

I think the whole issue is that they're not part of a mainstream family. Even though the couples in question have one baby each, both daughters still seem to consider their primary family unit to be the Duggar family. They are still part of that extended family and are both still living in Arkansas (when not on mission). They are going to still be there and still be wholly involved in the Duggar family circus.

The show is going to be shit like Jessa going out with Jinger, Jill doing buddy duties with Joy and James. It's going to be 19kac without JB and Michelle. It will be the same basic show.

It doesn't need a new gimmick, they'll keep using the old one until Jessa or Jill (or any other future married J kids) have enough children of their own to be a stand alone show. There's a reason they included both Jill and Jessa. They're banking on the fact that at least one of them will be doing something mildly interesting and Duggar-related at any given time.

I guess I'm not sure why people are concerned about the new show being boring as a drawback. The old show was boring and it was still a ratings juggernaut.

[Bad Wolf]

Well, I tried to watch it, but the screen wasn't much bigger than a postage stamp, and I fell asleep in the middle. I'll just stick to Buzzard's recaps.

[calimojo]

is there a clip anywhere that shows Jinger shopping with jessa.  From the descriptions it sounds like Jinger was not keeping all that sweet.  I would like to watch that part, just to see that.  Makes me wonder if there is a rift between Jinger/Jessa.  While Jinger has always talked about how close they were,  I am not sure if Jessa felt the same way.  I could see her being the kind of person who abandons their friends when a man enters the picture, and to be fair,  Gothardism probably encourages that. 

[mebeforee]

I thought it really seemed like Jinger and Jessa hadn't spoken in awhile. When they were talking about the pregnancy it seemed like Jinger was asking questions that Jessa would have at least texted her about if they'd been closely in touch. I felt bad for her.