Jill and Jessa Duggar Special Sunday Dec 13 - Merge

[HarleyQuinn]

Unconditional love in marriage?

 

Poor Jinger seems to easily manipulated. 

Also is it just me or does Anna look super gaunt? Her cheeks are so sunken in compared to what they used to be.

[SilverBeach]

54 minutes ago, ladyaudley said:

I'm not rating him against others - he'd  be far worse off then! I just don't find him cute and I think there's nothing worse than this cultural norm where we are obliged to say a baby is cute because it's a baby. I hope for him he grows into his looks. 

 

@Silver Beach suit yourself. I've not seen many babies who look so unresponsive / has such little range of expression. 

Yes, I will, and you do the same. You haven't seen Izzy at all, just pictures that might not be good ones. You are not obliged to say a baby is cute, how about saying nothing, FFS? When you see a non-cute baby IRL do you comment? A baby cannot defend itself, while adult fundies can come here and do just that. Plus, what you call unresponsive/limited range of expression just might be a future chilled out person in the making. Note that  I never once said Izzy was cute, or not.

[SassyPants]

My open letter to all Duggars, Dillards and Seewalds younger than Michelle-

It may seem as if your family is being unfairly targeted, but in the real world, crappy and unfortunate things happen to all people and families. IMO, it is rather unique that your folks, in their quest to protect your purity, purposely limited all of you. Lack of parenting, severely limited educations, isolation, strict choices based on physical anatomy only, overt parental sexuality continually thrown in your faces have left you all with a skewed notion of how the real world operates.

For some, faith is a wonderful resource and tool to use as a way to more readily, easily and successfully navigate the situations and events that happen in all lives, however, merely being faithful is no guarantee of a problem free life.

Each of you have unique talents, skills, strengths and weaknesses. For those over 18, it is time to spread your wings and explore your options. There are many paths to living a Godly, happy, healthy and productive life.

JB and Michelle Duggar got to make their own choices, and by law, you are all able to do the same.

The real world is a pretty nice place to live.

[ladyaudley]

Just now, SilverBeach said:

When you see a non-cute baby IRL do you comment?

Not always, but yes, I have. 

1 minute ago, SilverBeach said:

You haven't seen Izzy at all, just pictures that might not be good ones. 

I'd say constant media coverage from the day you're born is a fairly large sample, but you're right. I have not seen him in person. Have you?

3 minutes ago, SilverBeach said:

Plus, what you call unresponsive/limited range of expression just might be a future chilled out person in the making.

I hope so! It would probably do him a world of good in the crazy family he's born into

 

Just fyi and because text does not convey tone, I have no issue with you down-voting me or being angry with me, or indeed with you possibly thinking I'm a horrible human being. Contrary to many others, I was brought up by a mother who said "In life, you're going to offend someone no matter what you do, so say what you think." But I see where you are coming from. If it's any consolation, I think I wasn't overly cute as a baby myself, either. 

[SilverBeach]

1 minute ago, ladyaudley said:

Not always, but yes, I have. 

I'd say constant media coverage from the day you're born is a fairly large sample, but you're right. I have not seen him in person. Have you?

I hope so! It would probably do him a world of good in the crazy family he's born into

 

Just fyi and because text does not convey tone, I have no issue with you down-voting me or being angry with me, or indeed with you possibly thinking I'm a horrible human being. Contrary to many others, I was brought up by a mother who said "In life, you're going to offend someone no matter what you do, so say what you think." But I see where you are coming from. If it's any consolation, I think I wasn't overly cute as a baby myself, either. 

I was an adorable baby myself, with a full head of hair, as was mine, LOL. I am never angry with any poster, just the thought conveyed. How could I think you were a horrible person when I don't know you?  When it is called for, I speak up no matter who it offends, but the older I get the more I learn not to say certain things that may offend that are of no consequence. I am way more circumspect at 60 than I was before.

Never saw Izzy in person, never said he was cute either. I said he resembles Pecan Thief to me, and I left it at that. And if you had said anything negative about my baby within my earshot, I would have run you over with the stroller!

 

[Drala]

45 minutes ago, BackseatMom said:

Did the following quote from this article give anyone else a weird vibe? I cannot pinpoint why:

Anna is amazing," says Jinger. "She displays to each one of us what it is to have unconditional love, and she's walking through this better than any one of us could have ever imagined." 
 

IMO, Anna is floating down a river in Egypt called Denial.  She's not ready to let go of the illusion of who she imagines Josh to be.  Anna hasn't lived with Josh since news of the AM scandal broke, which allows her to maintain a degree of emotional distance from the crazy-making reality of living with someone who's proven himself to be a dishonest, untrustworthy lover and who only comes clean when he's caught.  She continues to romanticize the relationship ("my first and only love") by expecting the RU "rehab" to fix what's wrong so that "good" Josh will return home.  She really does expect to wake up and find out it was all a bad dream.  Jinger may call Anna's response to Josh's infidelity "unconditional love," but I see an extremely powerful psychological defense mechanism at work.   

[ladyaudley]

Just now, SilverBeach said:

And if you had said anything negative about my baby within my earshot, I would have run you over with the stroller!

Strollers at dawn!

Peace? I was looking for an emoticon with an outstretched hand, but there's only wanking ones... 

 

[SilverBeach]

1 minute ago, Drala said:

Anna is floating down a river in Egypt called Denial. 

Excellent...I think the whole cult is on the barge.

2 minutes ago, ladyaudley said:

Strollers at dawn!

Peace? I was looking for an emoticon with an outstretched hand, but there's only wanking ones... 

 

I just gave you an upvote. Yes, peace.

[SassyPants]

2 minutes ago, SilverBeach said:

Excellent...I think the whole cult is on the barge.

I want those kids, even Josh, to know that their parents' way is not the only way.

The only hope for Anna and Josh's marriage is for them to break free from the clutches, constraints and bindings of JB and Michelle.

Welfare would be better than kowtowing to JB for the next 25 years.

[ladyaudley]

7 minutes ago, SilverBeach said:

Excellent...I think the whole cult is on the barge.

I just gave you an upvote. Yes, peace.

I think we just broke the internet - adults adulting on the internet! 

 

On topic: if anyone who is like me geographically disadvantaged wants the link I used, let me know! It should get the other two episodes once they've aired, too. 

[EmCatlyn]

2 hours ago, IreneIssh said:

Awww. Why does everyone have to rag on baby Izzy? I think he's so cute! Maybe not the cutest baby on planet earth, but do we really want to start rating babies against each other? It's not his fault he has two total dinguses for parents, or that he looks like his grandpa. I thought seeing him baby-about and be cute was one of the most watchable things about the special. 

All babies are cute. They are designed that way so we won't abandon them to the wolves when they wake us every two hours to be fed and have to be changed at 3 AM.

Some babies are ugly-cute and others are lovely-cute. Some are lively- cute, others quiet-cute; some are stolid, some are alert, some contemplative, some are goofy.  There are large babies and petite babies, plump babies an skinny babies...  But they are all cute.

 

[Timetostoplurking]

9 minutes ago, EmCatlyn said:

All babies are cute. They are designed that way so we won't abandon them to the wolves when they wake us every two hours to be fed and have to be changed at 3 AM.

Some babies are ugly-cute and others are lovely-cute. Some are lively- cute, others quiet-cute; some are stolid, some are alert, some contemplative, some are goofy.  There are large babies and petite babies, plump babies an skinny babies...  But they are all cute.

 

You sound like Dr. Suess.   

[OnceUponATime]

1 minute ago, EmCatlyn said:

All babies are cute.

I disagree. I find most babies really damn alien ugly. The younger they are, the uglier usually. I bite my tongue when visiting people's babies so I don't say what I think. I refuse to tell someone that I think their baby is cute when I don't, so if I must comment on the baby's looks, it's usually about an outfit.
 

I'm not planning on having any babies so I guess I don't have to worry about abandoning them to the local crows and pigeons (because wolves don't seem to live around here). I don't think I've ever told anyone before that I find babies ugly.

[2manyKidzzz]

Anna's response is really what I thought it would be. She is relying on her "faith" to keep her strong, praying to God to help her. 

I cannot personally say I would stay in a marriage where my husband went on AM and also used a sex worker twice, who is suing him for violent behavior. Wouldn't work for me at all. 

[SassyPants]

All babies are not cute. {former nicu nurse}

I had a beautiful baby and another that was born looking like an older person, not at all like a baby.

Both are now nice looking adults.

That being said, I think Izzy is cute. He does have that rather bulbous nose, as did one of my children. I just hope that whatever condition ails his father, does not affect Izzy. 

[KSmom]

5 minutes ago, OnceUponATime said:

I disagree. I find most babies really damn alien ugly. The younger they are, the uglier usually. I bite my tongue when visiting people's babies so I don't say what I think. I refuse to tell someone that I think their baby is cute when I don't, so if I must comment on the baby's looks, it's usually about an outfit.
 

I'm not planning on having any babies so I guess I don't have to worry about abandoning them to the local crows and pigeons (because wolves don't seem to live around here). I don't think I've ever told anyone before that I find babies ugly.

A good friend of mine is a midwife and obviously she has to comment on the babies she catches. She told me that honestly a lot of babies are not cute, so she always says that they are sweet. 

[Mrsaztx]

"Look at those eyes!" "That hair! Oh my gosh!" Is how I comment on ugly babies

[gustava]

1 hour ago, BackseatMom said:

Anna is amazing," says Jinger. "She displays to each one of us what it is to have unconditional love, and she's walking through this better than any one of us could have ever imagined." 

I agree that it's odd, though not in the context of the Duggar family.  My stomach churns at the notion of unconditional love, given what he's done. 

[ThunderRolls]

My go to is usually "What a sweet little baby." Fortunately, I've only encountered two truly hideous babies in my lifetime - one that looked like Sloth from "The Goonies" and another one that looked like a tiny Stephen King (both females). In the first instance, the child quickly grew out of her squished appearance but the latter continues to look like she's about to write about pet sematarys and murderous telepaths. But she truly is one of the sweetest kids who absolutely loves animals - and really, a good attitude is a better thing to stress than a pretty face (although I do think it's OK to comment when a child is cute, and it won't instantly turn them into a vapid, superficial Barbie-wannabe). 

[accountingstar]

The Daily Mail also has the video.

Link: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3363049/It-betrayal-Anna-Duggar-fights-tears-detailing-moment-learned-love-one-Josh-having-multiple-affairs.html

Best Comments By Readers of The Daily Mail

Quote

I'm no fan of this family but I feel sorry for her. She seems sweet and nice and she's had the rug pulled out from under her. All of these people saying she has a low IQ, maybe she does, but it's not like she can help that!! Nor can she help how she was raised...that DOES come into play just like it does with all of us. Some people pare just mean as heck.

Anna you are not his one and only love and believe me you never will be. Throw him away just as he threw you and your babies away. If you stay with him you are headed for a horrendous disaster as he's not getting the proper help he needs and he knows with you and his family he can always get away with it.

Poor Anna. If she stays with him, she will always come out on the short end. No one that is married to a sociopath wins. Hes a narcissistic pig.

 

Best Comments By Readers of People

Quote

Even Tammy Wynette wouldn't have stood by her man in such a situation.

Poor Anna...I feel for her and all the women in this cult. What would Jinger do if this happens to her or her sisters? They're all kind of screwed with no education or job skills...I guess Jana has babysitting experience

I feel so badly for her. She just doesn't know what to do because of her faith and it is holding her back from making good decisions. Also the fact that she has no support system, very sad.

Instead of walking through this, she should run the other direction. Trust me, I know what I am talking about.

I'm not sure how you could forgive that kind of lying and cheating, or let him ever touch you again.

 

[EmCatlyn]

1 hour ago, HarleyQuinn said:

Unconditional love in marriage?

 

Poor Jinger seems to easily manipulated. 

Also is it just me or does Anna look super gaunt? Her cheeks are so sunken in compared to what they used to be.

I think unconditional love is different from unconditional approval or unconditional support or even unconditional liking.

I love my children unconditionally.  But they have both done things that I did not accept or support, and especially with my son, there have been times when I have not been sure I liked him.  He has done things that embarrassed and hurt me as well as worried me about his future.  And at various points (sometimes out of love for him, other times to protect my sanity) I have had to set harsh limits. But I love him. Unconditional love is not about endless forgiveness, it is about loving even when you can't fully forgive or forget.

There is nothing wrong with unconditional love in a marriage.  We all want to feel that we will still be loved even if we screw up.  But loving is not the same as accepting and allowing everything.  And unconditional love doesn't have to be endless, it can be worn out if it is not respected and/or reciprocated.

If Anna still loves Josh "unconditionally," that is sad, because he doesn't love her back.  But it is not a tragedy so long as she doesn't confuse loving with giving in and forgiving the unforgivable.  She needs to set boundaries and clear expectations that will get her the respect she deserves.  I doubt that she will, but that is not because she loves unconditionally but because she doesn't know that love can and should set limits in a marriage, not just with kids.

[Georgiana]

Oh man, I think MOST newborns are not cute.  I think they generally look like aliens or really old monkeys.  I mean, I would never say that to the parents, but I do express it to my friends. Really, babies are like pez dispensers: they have huge heads and little bodies and they only do like 2 things.  

Once they start interacting more, I find them a lot more appealing.

For all your old looking baby needs:

https://www.reddit.com/r/oldbabies

[tsukinokawa]

just finished watching the special and god it was boring as hell. 

even watching white wall is more interesting than watching these duggar girls talking about the "oh so awful second incident never mind the first one which oh happened so many years ago and should not have gone out in the first place" while some insipid stuff  about benissa's little,the little izzie with jillrick, the so called missionary thing, sisters shopping for baby items is thrown in the pot. Not sure if I wanna watch the second one as of now. 

seriously I need some good game to entertain me 

[EmCatlyn]

48 minutes ago, OnceUponATime said:

I disagree. I find most babies really damn alien ugly. The younger they are, the uglier usually. I bite my tongue when visiting people's babies so I don't say what I think. I refuse to tell someone that I think their baby is cute when I don't, so if I must comment on the baby's looks, it's usually about an outfit.

I'm not planning on having any babies so I guess I don't have to worry about abandoning them to the local crows and pigeons (because wolves don't seem to live around here). I don't think I've ever told anyone before that I find babies ugly.

That's okay.  You can think all babies are ugly.  But aren't some of them cute anyway?

Seriously, I think the whole point about "cute" is that the word implies a level of appeal that is not connected specifically to judgments of beauty.  What you seem to be saying is that babies don't appeal to you.  I can relate because though I mostly like babies, I didn't understand the fuss people made about them until I had my own.  I still find toddlers and preschoolers much more interesting than babies.

What I meant by my post is that "cuteness" can be found in all babies, not that everyone who looks at a baby will find it cute.

[nolongerIFBx]

2 hours ago, JayElBee said:

(redacted)

Also! (ok, three thoughts) When Jill was talking about Josh and his affair being a reason to "set boundaries" and be "accountable" totally irked me. The courtship model that these people follow does NOT allow any transparency and makes it EASY to cover up your crap "character" and lie about who you are. Why can they not see this!?  

I desperately wanted the producer to ask, "What do you mean by set boundaries?" because Jill knows the words to say but I'm not sure she knows what the words mean. It does not mean to lock your children in their rooms at night so your molesting son can't get in. "What does 'being accountable' mean to you?" because it seems like it means tattling to your parents about every little thing your siblings do that doesn't fit the mold.