Josh's "Counseling" Location - Media, Pick this UP!

[Callipygian]

Has Clark Wilson's name been mentioned? He was on the moving in special, he butted heads a bit with Debra, the designer. He also worked on the Bates house.

clarkwilsonfamily.blogspot.com/p/about-us.html

edit: looks like he lives in the Springdale/Rogers area.

[drivingmishcrazy]

Fwiw, I sent this in to Perez Hilton as well for good measure. Yes, I know he's despicable, but he has a lot of influence especially with the younger crowd.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

Josh's counseling location was the Little Rock Training Center. He was "counseled" by the ministry of Molestor Bill Gothard in a building Hobby Lobby donated to the ministry of Molestor Bill Gothard

This is the "Old VA Hospital" referred to in the police report.

The training center was donated by Hobby Lobby to IBLP. Josh's work there would have been renovations. We know from Recovering Grace that IBLP workers often did renovations as part of their work for the ministry (the Nashville hospital is one mentioned frequently.)

"In 2000, Hobby Lobby donated a 529,717-square-foot building in Little Rock, Arkansas, to Gothard's outfit. The company had purchased this property, a former Veterans Affairs building, two years earlier for $299,000. The Institute now runs a prison ministry out of this location, providing curriculum to a faith-based Arkansas Department of Corrections program known as Principles and Applications for Life. For about a decade, according to Gothard, the Institute leased the ground floor of the building for $1 per year to the Little Rock Police Department for use as its downtown station. Now, Gothard says, the police are paying a regular rental fee."

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/201 ... principles

Gothard touts former governor of Arkansas Mike Huckabee's name on materials promoting his "Character Cities" initiative. The two were photographed together at a private campaign luncheon in Houston in late 2007.

For years, Gothard cultivated close ties to Huckabee, an alumnus of Gothard's "Basic Seminar", and to Jim Dailey, mayor of Little Rock. With encouragement from Mayor Dailey, Gothard opened his Little Rock Training Center in an empty VA hospital purchased by Hobby Lobby and donated to Gothard's Institute.

Despite Gothard's grandiose vision, the enormous structure WAS IN POOR REPAIR and was never utilized as fully as the Indianapolis facility. Still, it served as a base for the Institute's prison ministry. Gothard quotes Governor Huckabee's support for conducting his seminars for Arkansas inmates: "I am confident that these are some of the best programs available for instilling character into the lives of people." Having gotten his foot in the door in Arkansas, Gothard combined forces with CCA, the nation's largest operator of privatized correctional institutions, to promote his intense lecture-based seminars inside more prisons."

http://heresyintheheartland.blogspot.co ... thard.html

Here's a picture: http://www.arkansasties.com/Pulaski/Str ... spital.htm

I wonder how many people can go down with this ship.

[rosastrohhut]

This daily mail article is one of the most eye opening things for the mainstream public that could have happened, did they truely get their infos from fj? I mean... the Information density is huge for a daily mail article. I guess it is the first time except from the book "Quiverfull" I have read of a direct connection between Duggars/Gothard in mainstream press/literature.

Watching this ship going down...

[apandaaries]

I wonder how many people can go down with this ship.

I'd like to see a lot of the top players fall. Hey Buzzfeed! Gawker media! Slate! Look these directions!

[nomoxian]

How crazy that Gothard was probably having all sorts of creepers work in the same building as a police station? How ballsy.

Hidden in plain sight?!

Kind of hesitant to post this as it is about Joshs daughter but during the special last week Little M mentioned something (not exact quote) about, "no hugging or kissing or.... you can go to jail I think?" So sad that one day she might be led to believe it was pre marital contact and not her fathers and families....disgusting sickness.

If she is led to believe that, it would actually not be the worst case scenario, because that would at least mean Josh did not molest her.

[halcionne]

Hi Everyone,

This is just terrible and I have cried for those beautiful young ladies since yesterday and SHAME on those parents for breeding all day, probably where their kids could hear them, to the point they couldn't even watch the dozen plus kids they had at the time.

The reason I am posting is because of two things I want to mention and even though I haven't gone through every page yet, I have gone through most of the relevant posts and I haven't seen these points mentioned and this seems to be the appropriate thread for these speculations.

1. I find it too coincidental that Jimbob sent Josh to counseling aka learn remodeling skills during the time or around the time he built that whole house with his kids. In other words he still spun it into a benefit in true Duggar "free training/ free labor" fashion.

2. I remember during one of the specials they had a contractor friend come and he helped them... I forgot who he was but its on my DVR. Not sure if this is the same special where Josh had his head shaved briefly but I have that on DVR also.

3. Kind of hesitant to post this as it is about Joshs daughter but during the special last week Little M mentioned something (not exact quote) about, "no hugging or kissing or.... you can go to jail I think?"

So sad that one day she might be led to believe it was pre marital contact and not her fathers and families....disgusting sickness, failures, irresponsibility...(how will they explain this to all the kids until they grow up?!?) that their family dynamic and routine changed so much when she was 5.

Ugh...I hope the young women are offered counseling as I am sure Josh and Jim Bob have kept most of the TLC money. If god exists then I hope Joshy, Ma and Pa burn in Hell.

Your number two sounds like Clark Wilson, mentioned a few posts below yours. He and his family worked on the Bates house upgrade.

The Duggar/Gothard connection and sexual sin pamphlet got picked up by Raw Story:

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/05/founder ... ung-women/

[eviek]

Ew, that's just awful. I love Hobby Lobby stuff though. WHAT TO DO.

[erkinai]

I do go to CFA but the people actually own the one near me. They actually care about me as a person which is more then I can say for some members of my family.They will give me free food from time to time and if its not busy eat with me, it can be the only time I have that for months until my parents come to visit or vise versa. I'm still new to town and dont know anyone really.

Aziz Ansari said it best: That whole Chick-Fil-A situation? Whew! That was quite a conundrum for me. ‘Cause you know, obviously I’m very pro gay-marriage, but I’m also very pro-delicious chicken sandwich. It’s like, “Uh! What do you do?!†I stopped eating Chick-Fil-A. I’m never going to eat Chick-Fil-A. I don’t eat it anymore. … I was so jealous of homophobic people. Man, what a delicious way to support your hateful cause.

[SportsgalAnnie]

Aziz Ansari said it best: That whole Chick-Fil-A situation? Whew! That was quite a conundrum for me. ‘Cause you know, obviously I’m very pro gay-marriage, but I’m also very pro-delicious chicken sandwich. It’s like, “Uh! What do you do?!†I stopped eating Chick-Fil-A. I’m never going to eat Chick-Fil-A. I don’t eat it anymore. … I was so jealous of homophobic people. Man, what a delicious way to support your hateful cause.

it's like my mom said "every ceo has something corrupt about them, you cant boycott everything"

[Aunt Bee]

Have we heard of how or if the girls received counseling?

And what about the other boy (can't tell one boy from another) who was sent to Alert several times. Does he have his own sin in the camp scenario?

[TaterThotHotDish]

The whole "Christian Counseling" center thing reminds me of Michele Bachmann's husband's center where they help people to "pray away the gay". Interesting that the place is there under the guise of Prison outreach. Isn't that what Anna's parents do as well? Exactly, what type of training is required for any of them to do this type of thing? Just a "servant's heart"? SMH. It's a shame Josh didn't receive legitimate therapy and is now the father of a daughter the same age as his youngest victim.

[smittykins]

I'm almost bummed out that I *can't* boycott Hobby Lobby or Chick-fil-A because they're not in my part of the country anyway.

Almost.

[jinseng]

The whole "Christian Counseling" center thing reminds me of Michele Bachmann's husband's center where they help people to "pray away the gay". Interesting that the place is there under the guise of Prison outreach. Isn't that what Anna's parents do as well? Exactly, what type of training is required for any of them to do this type of thing? Just a "servant's heart"? SMH. It's a shame Josh didn't receive legitimate therapy and is now the father of a daughter the same age as his youngest victim.

Annas father does Prison outreach in Florida for IBLP. He teaches prisoners from a range of Gothard resources including the 'Basic Seminar' - The first point of indoctrination into the cult.

I have read that Little Rock training centre is largely unoccupied but it does function as the IBLP HQ for their prison ministry. However Anna's dad is stationed in Florida. The Duggars discuss doing prison ministry in Florida in their book Growing up Duggar. All the Florida based IBLP prison missions trips begin at the Keller household.

[FloraKitty35]

Maybe I'm putting in my tinfoil hat here, but could this be the tip of the iceberg with something more widespread and sinister going on in Arkansas (i.e. the British high profile pedophile ring), or is the place just rife with pederasts and molesters?

JB sends his molester son to atone for his sin by working on a building for a "sort of" mentor who turns out to be molester, Bill Gothard. Josh returns home and is taken by JB and church elders to speak to family acquaintance Arkansas State Trooper, Jim Hutchens who , years later, was arrested twice for child pornography.

The media need to investigate this and put the pieces together and not allow the Duggars to get away with their explanation that anyone involved received adequate therapy and support. How much must it suck to be a child or a woman in Arkansas when this could be seen as an appropriate way to deal with abuse? It just seems like more than a coincidental worst case scenario that so many predators/criminals are involved in this unfortunate incident.

The Duggar girls and Josh's other victim deserve justice and support. Their abuser was referred to other abusers for "mentoring" and lecturing, while the girls were sent multiple times to Journey Through the Heart, also run by Gothard, who may have even preyed upon them while there. Please, someone get justice for these abused girls and hold JB and Michelle responsible for, at the very least, a bungled response to the initial abuse at the hands of their own brother.

I do agree with you in that this is probably just the tip of the whole vile iceberg.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

Hidden in plain sight?!

If she is led to believe that, it would actually not be the worst case scenario, because that would at least mean Josh did not molest her.

I agree. I would rather her think that than be a victim herself.

[hellakitty]

I agree. I would rather her think that than be a victim herself.

Hope im quoting right...

I without a doubt hope Mack isnt a direct victim and when editing my thoughts I think I lost what I meant, and I am not the best at expressing myself always...but what I meant was eventually, one day when Mack hears about all this, from her family, the internet, wherever...that she doesnt harbor resentment towards the "outside world" for "ruining her dads life" or that shes been even more conditioned into believing that Daddy was "tempted" by Satan and all the evil in the world took away our whatever instead of forgivenss...

Basically what I am saying is I hope the young Duggar mothers use this as an example to maybe be a little more progressive when it comes to dealing with sex education with their children. Or at least the next gen of grandkids (Johannna on down including Macks kids) as the youngers all seem a tad more rebellious.

Thanks for the replies to my comment

[KittenMitten]

Hope im quoting right...

I without a doubt hope Mack isnt a direct victim and when editing my thoughts I think I lost what I meant, and I am not the best at expressing myself always...but what I meant was eventually, one day when Mack hears about all this, from her family, the internet, wherever...that she doesnt harbor resentment towards the "outside world" for "ruining her dads life" or that shes been even more conditioned into believing that Daddy was "tempted" by Satan and all the evil in the world took away our whatever instead of forgivenss...

Basically what I am saying is I hope the young Duggar mothers use this as an example to maybe be a little more progressive when it comes to dealing with sex education with their children. Or at least the next gen of grandkids (Johannna on down including Macks kids) as the youngers all seem a tad more rebellious.

Thanks for the replies to my comment

I love your name! It would be heartbreaking to me if Mack views her Aunties as people from Satan, as they 'tempted' her dad. I do think, and I so hope I'm wrong, that Mack will view the outside world as evil. All her grandparents buy into this crap. They follow Gothard. I would love to save these children, this stuff sucks.

[KittenMitten]

BTW, thanks mods for your work, especially over the past few days.

[halcionne]

People has picked up on the ATI/IBLP angle:

http://www.people.com/article/inside-jo ... treatment-

[singsingsing]

Check out the headline. "Inside the 'Treatment' Josh Duggar Received" - pretty damning coming from bright & sunny People magazine!

I hate that it had to happen like this, but thank God the mainstream media is finally reporting on Gothard, IBLP, Doug Phillips, and the dark side of Christian fundamentalism in general. I had no idea about any of this stuff until I found Free Jinger. Most people won't read FJ, but they will read People, or the Washington Post, or other mainstream media. This will change more than a few perspectives and hopefully encourage other mainstream media to dig deeper and expose this world for what it is.

[Palimpsest]

When mealy mouthed, fame whoring, probably a contract with TLC, and demonstrably Duggar worshipping People Magazine gets it almost right -- holy crap, perhaps there is a God!

Or perhaps the revolting TLC is dropping the Duggar Franchise in the dirt. The comments are predominantly negative on the People article so far too.

But it could just be a TLC/People 7 day wonder. They might return to business as usual and exploit the victims at any moment, so I'm trying to subdue any premature jubilations.

[Sundaymorning]

When mealy mouthed, fame whoring, probably a contract with TLC, and demonstrably Duggar worshipping People Magazine gets it almost right -- holy crap, perhaps there is a God!

Or perhaps the revolting TLC is dropping the Duggar Franchise in the dirt. The comments are predominantly negative on the People article so far too.

But it could just be a TLC/People 7 day wonder. They might return to business as usual and exploit the victims at any moment, so I'm trying to subdue any premature jubilations.

Sadly, I also think that TLC and people just want to make the money with the Duggars they still can, so they bash them and exploit the victims.

Realistically, I don't think that the show can go on like it did before. I wonder what TLC will do. And there is a big difference between let's say Honey Boo Boo and the Duggars. From what I've gathered, Honey Boo Boo was basically watching the life of people many thought were crazy/trashy/bad role models in first place. From the beginning, there was no good reputation to loose, since they already had a bad one. No one in their right mind would have described them as "wholesome" or the "ideal family", like many did with the Duggars. Now that they their "nice, loving family" appeal has gone down the drain, I wonder what kind of episodes they could ever sell, unless they just do specials with Jessa and Jill.

[AB45377]

Sadly, I also think that TLC and people just want to make the money with the Duggars they still can, so they bash them and exploit the victims.

Realistically, I don't think that the show can go on like it did before. I wonder what TLC will do. And there is a big difference between let's say Honey Boo Boo and the Duggars. From what I've gathered, Honey Boo Boo was basically watching the life of people many thought were crazy/trashy/bad role models in first place. From the beginning, there was no good reputation to loose, since they already had a bad one. No one in their right mind would have described them as "wholesome" or the "ideal family", like many did with the Duggars. Now that they their "nice, loving family" appeal has gone down the drain, I wonder what kind of episodes they could ever sell, unless they just do specials with Jessa and Jill.

People wants to keep the Duggars as relevant as possible in current news. Its easy $$$.

[SassyPants]

Sadly, I also think that TLC and people just want to make the money with the Duggars they still can, so they bash them and exploit the victims.

Realistically, I don't think that the show can go on like it did before. I wonder what TLC will do. And there is a big difference between let's say Honey Boo Boo and the Duggars. From what I've gathered, Honey Boo Boo was basically watching the life of people many thought were crazy/trashy/bad role models in first place. From the beginning, there was no good reputation to loose, since they already had a bad one. No one in their right mind would have described them as "wholesome" or the "ideal family", like many did with the Duggars. Now that they their "nice, loving family" appeal has gone down the drain, I wonder what kind of episodes they could ever sell, unless they just do specials with Jessa and Jill.

So much worse for the Duggars because THEY put themselves up on that highest of pedestals. THEY were better than all of us, except they really weren't.

JB has always worshipped at the altar of the greenback- this time, it came back to bite him in the ass.

HE needs to be fully investigated by CPS, IMO.