Am I wrong to find it selfish of Ben & Jessa...?

[HereticHick]

I think its all talk to drum up interest in the Ben & Jessa "brand" and to distinguish themselves from the other Duggar couples. I doubt that anything will ever come of it. JB and Michelle have also talked about adoption, and I truly doubt that they will ever do it.

[Funwithfundies]

I think its all talk to drum up interest in the Ben & Jessa "brand" and to distinguish themselves from the other Duggar couples. I doubt that anything will ever come of it. JB and Michelle have also talked about adoption, and I truly doubt that they will ever do it.

ITA. I have a family member who used to say she was having three bio kids and then adopting one - years later, two bio kids and 0 adopted. Kate Gosselin used to talk about adopting 'just one more'. I think for *some* people, talking about adopting makes them feel interesting/different/morally superior - you know, without actually having to do the hard work of going through the process.

[Cleopatra7]

I don't think it would be selfish of Benessa to adopt when they are capable of having biological children. Plenty of couples adopt as well as have biological children. However, I do think that it would be ill-advised for Benessa to adopt given that they they would not be respectful of the native culture of a child of color, don't have real jobs, are purposely ignorant, way too young and immature, and would probably have the attitude that they need to "save" this hypothetical child. Frankly, I could see them rehoming a child a la Justin Harris if the child didn't immediately conform to their ridiculous Gothard/Pearl/VF expectations. I think Benessa would use an adopted child as an accessory and would probably be treated differently than a bio child.

[Full enough quiver]

Actually, I could totally see a birth mother choosing Bin and Jessa. Young, naive fundie or fundie lite girl gets pregnant, is forced to give away her baby to a more worthy married couple, sorry, I mean "chooses life", and decides that the Seewalds are such a lovely, wholesome couple. Lots of people see the Duggars on tv, and just see how wonderful and Christian they are. They don't see the dark side, and the poor, unsuspecting birth mother won't either, until it's too late. I'm not against adoption. However, there is serious need for reform. US domestic infant adoption is a profit driven system that is often coercive to birth parents that maybe, with a little extra support, could parent their children. It isn't about finding homes for children who need them, it's about finding(healthy white) babies for couples. If they truly feel called to adopt(which could be very unselfish), they should wait a few years, read books about parenting adopted children, transracial adoption issues (if they adopt a non white child) maybe take some classes, and choose an ethical agency to adopt internationally, or adopt from foster care. Adopted kids can have unique challenges. They need to be ready for those challenges so they don't turn out the way so many fundie adoptions do. There is potential for them to be good adoptive parents, if they're willing to step outside their comfort zone and educate themselves.

[Mylnijya]

My guess is that once they have a few children of their own, the adoption thing will fall by the wayside. Adoption is a lot more tricky than picking out a shirt at the store. In general I think that the families who are best suited to adopt while having biological children are those who are a little older (late 30s) and their first kids are older than the kids being adopted. I think especially if adopting a child who looks quite different from the family, it takes an extra dose of understanding. I do think adoption is quite a bit easier bonding-wise if the child is the same race and is a newborn when placed.

[twinmama]

In my opinion, this is the other side of the "it's not the job of the infertile to adopt the world's needy children" coin.

While I don't wish "know it all but really know nothing," practically teenage B&J as parents on any kid, they can do whatever they want. I hope they don't use a horrible agency to adopt, but I'm sure they will. It will most likely be up to the pregnant woman to make a good choice for her baby and NOT choose them. Also hope they are honest in how they will raise that child, if it includes violence.

[Nishi621]

First of all, I am shocked to see that there are people in the world who believe only infertile couples/people should be allowed to adopt. That is just so wrong in so many ways.

Secondly, people on here keep talking about a woman/young girl choosing Ben and Jessa as adoptive parents. That is not the only way adoption works. There are still closed adoptions in the States and tons and tons of people adopt outside of the US where there is no birth mother choosing parents, it is adopting a child from an orphanage or what some countries call a "children's home". This is how people in my own family adopted and take a look at The Little Couple, that is how they adopted recently also. Outside of the US and from orphanages.

[Rachel333]

Secondly, people on here keep talking about a woman/young girl choosing Ben and Jessa as adoptive parents. That is not the only way adoption works. There are still closed adoptions in the States and tons and tons of people adopt outside of the US where there is no birth mother choosing parents, it is adopting a child from an orphanage or what some countries call a "children's home". This is how people in my own family adopted and take a look at The Little Couple, that is how they adopted recently also. Outside of the US and from orphanages.

No one is saying that's the only way adoption works, just that it's probably the most likely scenario that would allow Ben and Jessa to adopt as few agencies would take them right now.

[Nishi621]

No one is saying that's the only way adoption works, just that it's probably the most likely scenario that would allow Ben and Jessa to adopt as few agencies would take them right now.

I did not say people on here were saying that is the only way, I just stated that it was not the only way. Sometimes I hate posting anything here because it will get nitpicked apart. Back to reading, thanks!!

[SnazzyNazzy]

While I don't think it is selfish of them to adopt because they can physically have their own children, I do think they would adopt for selfish reasons.

[brownlhe]

I think it was selfish of them to talk adoption in the first place. I can't count the times J'Chelle has said they have been praying about adoption. Jessa said the same line for publicity IMO. I don't think any of them will ever do it, they'll just talk about it to make themselves look good. They always say adoption is the option better than abortion, but none of them has done that!

[Gobbles]

Sorry, I may be a bit prejudiced (and this is not directed at you, but at the idea of the 'perfect child') , but I know people who have adopted 'those imperfect' children. Very successfully. They are better people than I am. No child is perfect, there are no guarantees with children. Children are also not tools to increase ones ratings and hence, incomes. They are human beings, individuals. They are a person, not a means to an end.

This is also not directed at anybody. I know nobody who adopted a child but I'm myself someone with Autism and I know that it is hard sometimes (no normal school career, no normal work, ect.), but any child can suddenly become "un-perfect". Accident or whatever. If you plan on having children you have to consider that. Or even your husband can suddenly get ill. That is why it says "in sickness and in health".

[eri]

I think the biological parents of all those unwanted children in the world are the selfish ones.

If I were to adopt, there is NO WAY I could take on a child with special needs or behavior problems. I know my limitations and personality, and such a situation would be a poor fit for me and the child. I would never judge others for not doing what I'm unwilling to do myself.

If BJ want to further add to their family via adoption, it's ok with me. They are not responsible for the unwanted children, or for leaving the healthy young ones to infertile couples.

I agree with the second and third paragraph.

Regarding the first paragraph: Giving up a child is really difficult to do. Unless you lost your child to the foster care system for good reason and make their life hell by petitioning to get your child back, how are you selfish? Pro-lifers feel that giving up a child for adoption is the better alternative to abortion. Are abortions less selfish? How do you decide?

[eri]

In my opinion, this is the other side of the "it's not the job of the infertile to adopt the world's needy children" coin.

While I don't wish "know it all but really know nothing," practically teenage B&J as parents on any kid, they can do whatever they want. I hope they don't use a horrible agency to adopt, but I'm sure they will. It will most likely be up to the pregnant woman to make a good choice for her baby and NOT choose them. Also hope they are honest in how they will raise that child, if it includes violence.

It isn't the job of the infertile to seek IVF either. What's your point? People do it and it happens.

[Coldwinterskies]

I agree that I expect Ben and Jessa will adopt a kid from another country if they do adopt. I would be shocked if they actually adopted an American child through foster care.

I am friends with a couple who have adopted older children with a history of abuse from foster care. One of their children adapted to the family pretty easily. The other kid has had a lot of struggles in adapting since he had learned some maladaptive and manipulative behaviors from his mother (a crack addicted prostitute) that have caused a lot of problems. I think he'll still grow up to be a stable person, but it has taken a lot of work and has been stressful at times.

Since there is that potential of having a child who has a lot of behavior challenges, I think adopting from foster care requires a lot of maturity, patience, empathy, and pragmatism that I just do not think that any of the Duggars are capable of having.

[melaney]

First of all, I am shocked to see that there are people in the world who believe only infertile couples/people should be allowed to adopt. That is just so wrong in so many ways.

Secondly, people on here keep talking about a woman/young girl choosing Ben and Jessa as adoptive parents. That is not the only way adoption works. There are still closed adoptions in the States and tons and tons of people adopt outside of the US where there is no birth mother choosing parents, it is adopting a child from an orphanage or what some countries call a "children's home". This is how people in my own family adopted and take a look at The Little Couple, that is how they adopted recently also. Outside of the US and from orphanages.

In no way did I mean, or do I believe only infertile couples should be able to adopt.

My belief may be the minority but I do feel as though people whether they are infertile, same sex (whole different debate I dont want to start) or for whatever reason cannot experience a child from the newborn stage themselves have that opportunity if it is something they truly desire. All I am saying is to adopt domestically from the newborn stage is a lengthy and expensive process, and there are waitlists in most areas.

I am all for adopting, and am a major advocate of it, I guess what I am saying is IMO, those who can have there own children should foremost consider adopting the older children, even if that means a 1 year old (I am also by no means saying that infertile couples shouldnt adopt older children either).

I am having trouble verbalizing my beliefs. I just really feel empathy for the couples who cannot have children, and want them and are stuck spending insane amounts of money, and enduring long waits to experience the joys of raising a baby.

[SnowShine]

I kind of feel like there's a bit of "damned if you do, damned if you don't" directed Jessa and Ben's way here, in somewhat the same way women in particular are judged for having 1, 2, 3, 19 kids.

Let's face it, if they only had biological kids, there would people judging them for not adopting (overpopulation!). Now that they're still talking about adopting, they're selfish for adopting, or they should only adopt a certain type of child in order to not be selfish--even though everyone here seems to agree that they should not be adopting a special needs child, or a child from a different culture.

If the Seewalds look around in a year and a half and decide adoption isn't for them, more power to them. If they decide to go full steam ahead, well, as long as they have more/better skills than they do now (and/or a solid financial plan to provide for the kid), again, more power to them. If they decide a young healthy baby of their same background is best for them, good for them. If they decide a gay teenager from a different background that is also emotionally stunted, has learning disabilities, and only one leg is the perfect addition to their family, good for them. I admit I would be more than a little terrified for the latter, but hey, people surprise me sometimes. Maybe that kid would be the one that changed Ben and Jessa's attitudes.

I have a feeling that if Jessa (in particular) is really as cold and non-maternal as people (myself included) seem to think she is, it's going to be "one and done" anyway.

[boxerdoggie]

For Ben and Jessa to adopt an older child would be difficult since Ben is a teenager

[Rainytown]

There are many, many people who cannot have children, and the waitlist for adoption is extensive, whats your opinion on adoption so young, and with clearly no fertility issues?

It's not going to happen. The Gospel According To Gothard does not allow adoption under any circumstances. The insistence that they will adopt has been cooked up by a publicist in order to make the Duggars more sympathetic and garner more positive press. After all, if they weren't mouthing off about adoption, the "journalists" in question might actually ask more difficult questions about their home life and their true religious beliefs and practices.

Fact: There is not a reputable adoption agency (or a state in the union) that will give these children -- and that's what they are, children playing house -- any child via adoption. They won't make it through the initial paperwork and financial screening, especially since their jobs are "reality TV personalities".

[Rainytown]

This is how people in my own family adopted and take a look at The Little Couple, that is how they adopted recently also. Outside of the US and from orphanages.

Let's talk about the differences between The Little Couple and Ben and Jessa Seewald, shall we?

Binessa

19 and 21 years old

Have known each other for a year

Got pregnant 3 months after the wedding

Both unemployed (ooops, they're "reality TV personalities")

Have no financial stability

Have no financial assets. Do not own their home.

Have no training for a future career

Ben and Jessa allegedly have GED's. Ben has "some" college.

Belong to a religious cult that believes it's acceptable to swat an infant that crawls off a blanket, for starters

Bill Klein and Jen Arnold

Bill and Jen are in their 40's. I believe they have been married for seven years.

Bill owns at least two successful businesses.

Jen earned her MD and is a neonatologist.

They are financially stable.

The Arnold Kleins own their home.

After many attempts to conceive their own children, they researched and went through the process of adopting two special needs children. They financed their children's adoptions themselves.

"The Little Couple" is not their sole financial support.

They have a strong support network of family and a nanny.

There's no comparison. Bill Klein and Jen Arnold knew what they were getting into and have the family and financial support to raise their kids. Binessa probably think that adopting a child is like checking a book out of the library.

[eri]

In no way did I mean, or do I believe only infertile couples should be able to adopt.

My belief may be the minority but I do feel as though people whether they are infertile, same sex (whole different debate I dont want to start) or for whatever reason cannot experience a child from the newborn stage themselves have that opportunity if it is something they truly desire. All I am saying is to adopt domestically from the newborn stage is a lengthy and expensive process, and there are waitlists in most areas.

I am all for adopting, and am a major advocate of it, I guess what I am saying is IMO, those who can have there own children should foremost consider adopting the older children, even if that means a 1 year old (I am also by no means saying that infertile couples shouldnt adopt older children either).

I am having trouble verbalizing my beliefs. I just really feel empathy for the couples who cannot have children, and want them and are stuck spending insane amounts of money, and enduring long waits to experience the joys of raising a baby.

Domestic adoption is a breeze compared to international adoption.

Plus, talk to anybody who has adopted through foster care. There are easier ways to go about it.

[eri]

I kind of feel like there's a bit of "damned if you do, damned if you don't" directed Jessa and Ben's way here, in somewhat the same way women in particular are judged for having 1, 2, 3, 19 kids.

Let's face it, if they only had biological kids, there would people judging them for not adopting (overpopulation!). Now that they're still talking about adopting, they're selfish for adopting, or they should only adopt a certain type of child in order to not be selfish--even though everyone here seems to agree that they should not be adopting a special needs child, or a child from a different culture.

If the Seewalds look around in a year and a half and decide adoption isn't for them, more power to them. If they decide to go full steam ahead, well, as long as they have more/better skills than they do now (and/or a solid financial plan to provide for the kid), again, more power to them. If they decide a young healthy baby of their same background is best for them, good for them. If they decide a gay teenager from a different background that is also emotionally stunted, has learning disabilities, and only one leg is the perfect addition to their family, good for them. I admit I would be more than a little terrified for the latter, but hey, people surprise me sometimes. Maybe that kid would be the one that changed Ben and Jessa's attitudes.

I have a feeling that if Jessa (in particular) is really as cold and non-maternal as people (myself included) seem to think she is, it's going to be "one and done" anyway.

Lol if a woman has 1-3 kids nobody says anything. You can give the needed amount of attention to three children. Nine? To me that's "Fuck you, take an environmental science and child psychology class" territory.

[KimmySchmidt]

Of all the things I could snark on them about having an apparently real desire to adopt is not one of them. With that said, I could easily see them going though an a crisis pregnancy center. We had friends adopt this way. A girl comes in for counseling, chooses adoption and they pair her with a family. No agencies, just the pregnant girl and the intended parents. This method isn't risk free but it's definitely something I could see them doing because then they could claim to have saved the kid from abortion and actually be telling the truth.

[Nishi621]

Let's talk about the differences between The Little Couple and Ben and Jessa Seewald, shall we?

Binessa

19 and 21 years old

Have known each other for a year

Got pregnant 3 months after the wedding

Both unemployed (ooops, they're "reality TV personalities")

Have no financial stability

Have no financial assets. Do not own their home.

Have no training for a future career

Ben and Jessa allegedly have GED's. Ben has "some" college.

Belong to a religious cult that believes it's acceptable to swat an infant that crawls off a blanket, for starters

Bill Klein and Jen Arnold

Bill and Jen are in their 40's. I believe they have been married for seven years.

Bill owns at least two successful businesses.

Jen earned her MD and is a neonatologist.

They are financially stable.

The Arnold Kleins own their home.

After many attempts to conceive their own children, they researched and went through the process of adopting two special needs children. They financed their children's adoptions themselves.

"The Little Couple" is not their sole financial support.

They have a strong support network of family and a nanny.

There's no comparison. Bill Klein and Jen Arnold knew what they were getting into and have the family and financial support to raise their kids. Binessa probably think that adopting a child is like checking a book out of the library.

I was not comparing The Little Couple to Ben and Jessa at all. I was just saying how many, many people adopt from outside the US with no birth mother involved in the decision and was using Bill and Jen Klein as examples of THAT since it was so openly broadcast on TV. That is all, of course there is NO comparison between the Kleins ability to raise a child both financially and emotionally compared to the Seewalds!

[SnowShine]

Lol if a woman has 1-3 kids nobody says anything. You can give the needed amount of attention to three children. Nine? To me that's "Fuck you, take an environmental science and child psychology class" territory.

Haven't you heard? Moms with one child are selfish for not giving their child a sibling. Also, her kid will be selfish and spoiled and lonely. Moms with two kids aren't real mothers. :/ (Just some stereotypes I've heard, not at all a representation of my actual thought process.)