Lazy Lyndsie's Cancer is Back

[Curious]

Have to admit I am disappointed in the decision not to change the title, shows a lack of compassion that surprises me. FJ might be a snark site but I always felt we where more of a discussion site without the mean slant of GOMI etc.

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{TEXT1}:

The mods/admins had a fairly long discussion about this. All of us feel badly about her current situation and wish her well. None of that erases her history, however. We tell people over and over that the internet is forever and that is true whether you have cancer return or you move to Alaska ;) She is known on FJ as Lazy Lyndsie because she EARNED that name. Just like Lori Alexander or Doug Phillips Frankly, I hope she has better things to do than see if FJ and/or other snark sites are talking about her.

[Hisey]

Wow. Personally, I don't believe in insulting people who are very ill, no matter what their "crimes" were in the past. That's not the kind of person I want to be.

I was always astonished at the level of fury at Lyndsie, back when she was raising money for her adoption. Was it a mature thing to do, to ask for money instead of earning it yourself? No, probably not, unless she was feeling really sick or something. But there are evil-er people in the world.

When we adopted our first daughter, we traveled in a large group of other adoptive families. One mom had a chronic illness that might very easily get worse (I lost touch with her so I don't know if it did). The father was not the healthiest person either. I remember my husband commenting that he felt it was wrong that they were adopting, since they might actually re-orphan the baby.

Oddly enough, there was another couple on the trip with an illness problem. Near the end of the year-long adoption process, when this couple already had a pic of the baby, the husband had a recurrence of his cancer. It was clear he would not live long after the baby came home.

His wife questioned whether they should continue the adoption process. The husband replied "Please continue the adoption. I don't want our daughter to be abandoned again." (We were adopting from China where the babies are literally abandoned, for complex socio-economic reasons).

Was Lyndsie wrong to adopt? Here are my feelings: I look at the kid's prospects for happiness. Often, there is not another family with a white picket fence waiting to adopt that child. The key question is: what are the kid's chances of being adopted if the current adoption is terminated because of a sick parent?

Unfortunately, to figure this out, you have to look at some ugly truths about adoption.

Lyndsie's babies were white, healthy newborns. They would almost definitely be adopted if she hadn't adopted them. So I do think it was selfish to subject those babies to the loss of their mother.

However, most adoptions in the US are not of white healthy babies. Most adoptions, actually, involve older kids in foster care. These children probably would not be adopted again. These kids would face a childhood in foster care. In that case, it's better for the child to suffer the loss of a parent than to face the multiple losses that foster care can involve.

In the case of foreign adoptions, like my daughters, it helps to know something about the future these babies face if they remain in their orphanages. It is not a bright future. So it is probably better for the CHILD if they are brought to the US, lose a parent, and are raised by the remaining parent (who frequently remarries anyway--that's what happened in the second family I mentioned above). Sadly, in these cases, it can be the choice between a rock and a hard place.

Edited to clarify.

[Minim]

The mods/admins had a fairly long discussion about this. All of us feel badly about her current situation and wish her well. None of that erases her history, however.

How very fundi-esque of you.

[snickerz]

I don't know what stage cancer she had/has, but her first cancer was a 7 inch tumor on one ovary, and the second time 2 years later was a 4 inch tumor on the other ovary plus cancerous fluid filling her abdomen. I would guess that would be stage 3 or 4. Ovarian cancer survival rates are DISMAL for stage 3-4. Something like 30% will survive 10 years. She is now in her 4th cancer occurrence. This is why reputable adoption agencies have RULES like, you know, going 5 years cancer-free before being eligible for adoption. I do think adopting in her situation was extremely selfish. She is now doing chemo again.

[WonderingInWA]

I don't know what stage cancer she had/has, but her first cancer was a 7 inch tumor on one ovary, and the second time 2 years later was a 4 inch tumor on the other ovary plus cancerous fluid filling her abdomen. I would guess that would be stage 3 or 4. Ovarian cancer survival rates are DISMAL for stage 3-4. Something like 30% will survive 10 years. She is now in her 4th cancer occurrence. This is why reputable adoption agencies have RULES like, you know, going 5 years cancer-free before being eligible for adoption. I do think adopting in her situation was extremely selfish. She is now doing chemo again.

How do you know these details? I don't remember her blogging about them, but maybe I missed it?

[gustava]

From a poster above: Lyndsie's babies were white, healthy newborns. They would almost definitely be adopted if she hadn't adopted them. So I do think it was selfish to subject those babies to the loss of their mother.

And now these two once easily adoptable babies will be motherless because Lazy Lindsey and her husband and family wanted only white newborns.

So she may be dying, which is unfortunate for the babies, but Lyndsie got what she wanted....white, healthy newborns.

[Terrie]

Okay, I don't get why suddenly getting cancer (again) means certain types of snarking are suddenly off-limits. Frankly, if it bothers you now, it should always bother you, because getting cancer doesn't make someone a better person.

I'll also note no one wanted to change how we referred to PP when Zsu-Zsu lost one of her twins.

[WonderingInWA]

And...you can buy a t-shirt to support them financially!

http://www.booster.com/Lyndsiebrooker

[Rachel333]

So white babies don't deserve them as parents but for black babies Lyndsie and co. would be better than nothing? That's incredibly fucked up but I can't say I disagree. :? It's really awful that white babies are such commodities but there aren't enough people willing to adopt black babies.

[WonderingInWA]

So white babies don't deserve them as parents but for black babies Lyndsie and co. would be better than nothing? That's incredibly fucked up but I can't say I disagree. :? It's really awful that white babies are such commodities but there aren't enough people willing to adopt black babies.

I think it was implied by the way Lyndsie and Daniel did their adoption that a child of color wasn't going to be acceptable to them. They were not seeking international adoption (which was actually suggested to them via her blog when they lost Aubrey v.1) and they also ended up adopting privately in order to get children that resembled them. Interesting that her mother did in fact adopt 4 children of color recently, so apparently the whole family doesn't require white kids. In any event, there was a lot of discussion even on this board at the time that she had other options but it was believed she wouldn't have anything to do with the time it takes to adopt internationally or the fact that the children are colored differently and are usually not infants by the time the placement is finalized. Part of me thinks she knew this situation was bound to happen and the sooner she could fulfill "mother" on her bucket list, the better.

[Rachel333]

Oh yeah, I don't doubt that they only wanted a white baby, which is too bad.

[snickerz]

How do you know these details? I don't remember her blogging about them, but maybe I missed it?

From here: lincolnjournalonline.com/news/2008-07-24/front_page/003.html

[Mama Mia]

Agreed. I was older than her children when we discovered my mother had a terminal illness (a progressive, degenerative genetic illness) but it tainted my childhood terribly. It was hell.

Was it tragic that she got cancer at such a young age? YES, absolutely, but that doesn't change the fact that she knowingly brought children into this situation, knowing her time was likely limited and they'd grow up without her.

She and her husband showed a lot of immaturity throughout their intent to adopt, and were not fully transparent with the birth parents. That is beyond shitty.

I suspect she knew that treatment would fail, and being that she has been down that road (chemo), she decided to try and go the all-natural route to offer up as much time as possible. I'm curious what kind of treatments she'll be doing now though, and if it's just palliative to buy more time.

Either way, the kids she adopted lose yet again--first birth families, and now their adopted mom.

I don't have an opinion on the rest of it, but agree that she may have chosen the route she did based on the Cancer being highly likely to kill her no matter what. After watching a couple of relatives struggle with an aggressive mastecized Cancer, I know that in that position I would be going for quality, not quantity of time left. A year of being fairly mentally present for my children - while doing alternative treatments that might ease symptoms - over a few extra months but a lot of that time spent in chemo ? And all the side effects? I just had a close relative die who had an extremely aggressive Cancer. At first he fought it whole heartedly, but to the point that all he was doing was spending his very short time from diagnosis to death absolutely miserable.

[lilwriter85]

I think it was implied by the way Lyndsie and Daniel did their adoption that a child of color wasn't going to be acceptable to them. They were not seeking international adoption (which was actually suggested to them via her blog when they lost Aubrey v.1) and they also ended up adopting privately in order to get children that resembled them. Interesting that her mother did in fact adopt 4 children of color recently, so apparently the whole family doesn't require white kids. In any event, there was a lot of discussion even on this board at the time that she had other options but it was believed she wouldn't have anything to do with the time it takes to adopt internationally or the fact that the children are colored differently and are usually not infants by the time the placement is finalized. Part of me thinks she knew this situation was bound to happen and the sooner she could fulfill "mother" on her bucket list, the better.

Yep, they had a profile on an adoption site. On preference for race/ethnicity, only Caucasian/European was listed for them. To be a fair, they could have been confused on the form.

[lilwriter85]

Fertility treatments are selfish?

All infertile couples should be selfless and adopt? Fuck you!

Then all those fertile couples should stop breeding like rabbits and adopt the poor orphans too.

ETA: Lyndsie doesn't have a uterus or ovaries, so adoption was her only family building option. I agree it was a selfish option since she wasn't 5 years out, and couldn't afford to adopt.

I did wonder if Lyndsie and Daniel ever considered surrogacy with donor eggs and Daniel's sperm. But, money could have been a factor for them especially since they already had issues not having money for adoption home study.

[Feberin]

I feel so sad for her children. I never understood why they were in such a rush to adopt. Waiting until she was five years cancer free would have allowed her to work so they could save up the money and they were both relatively young she still would have been under 30 when they adopted. I wonder if her sister has moved into their house to care for the children while Lyndsie stays with their parents. I also would think the garage bedroom is to give her space and quiet.

[WonderingInWA]

I figured her sister Kendyl (deer-in-the-headlights Mary Kay-spackled Barbie pose) was probably helping out. She's been dating the same guy now for a few years and no ring on her finger, so plenty of free time to help out. Maybe she's decided not to marry until her sister is healed, which is noble, but she's no spring chicken in terms of southern girls go (I think she's probably 25-ish now?).

Lots of logistics for that family, for sure.

[Milly-Molly-Mandy]

Oh yeah, I don't doubt that they only wanted a white baby, which is too bad.

Not true, her adoption website said any race. Any I happen to know one of the adoption that fell through was mixed race.

[Mama Mia]

So white babies don't deserve them as parents but for black babies Lyndsie and co. would be better than nothing? That's incredibly fucked up but I can't say I disagree. :? It's really awful that white babies are such commodities but there aren't enough people willing to adopt black babies.

Saying there " aren't enough" adoptive homes for healthy, adoptable infants of any race is kind of a stretch. There can be a longer wait, but there aren't tons babies of any race who are willingly being put up for adoption to strangers ---and I'm not finding anything that says there aren't enough parents wanting to adopt. I did find an article saying that some non-white babies are actually adopted internationally.

Kids in foster care are a different issue. They are likely to be older, or have special needs, or be part of a sibling group . lots of people don't want to take that on. And of course most kids in foster care aren't actually eligible for adoption anyway.

[whoviana]

I don't know why is it a crime to go straight for adoption. Cancer or not, adoption is very much looked down on. People are obliged to go through the whole 9 yards before society doesn't spit at the sight of them. IVF, surrogacy, anything with their own sperm and egg, but children who are already dropped on this planet and live mother-, and fatherless are the last after the last option. Why?

[Rachel333]

Saying there " aren't enough" adoptive homes for healthy, adoptable infants of any race is kind of a stretch. There can be a longer wait, but there aren't tons babies of any race who are willingly being put up for adoption to strangers ---and I'm not finding anything that says there aren't enough parents wanting to adopt. I did find an article saying that some non-white babies are actually adopted internationally.

Kids in foster care are a different issue. They are likely to be older, or have special needs, or be part of a sibling group . lots of people don't want to take that on. And of course most kids in foster care aren't actually eligible for adoption anyway.

This is true. It's really interesting to think of American babies being adopted internationally because I think of it being the other way around only, but I've read of trends of Europeans adopting non-white American children. International adoptions in places like Ethiopia show too that there are more parents wanting to adopt those babies than there are babies to be adopted.

[whoviana]

I think people that are eager to have a family will adopt from wherever they get the least amount of torture. Any kind of drunk, jobless, substance abusing, child beating, child raping asshole is allowed to keep their kids and the worst they are likely to have to go through is a few visits from the cps.

Hard working, sober, clean, tidy, loving couples are given all kinds of shit before they can adopt a child and they drag out the adoption process for as long as they can, for no good reason whatsoever.

[Peas n carrots]

I think people that are eager to have a family will adopt from wherever they get the least amount of torture. Any kind of drunk, jobless, substance abusing, child beating, child raping asshole is allowed to keep their kids and the worst they are likely to have to go through is a few visits from the cps.

Hard working, sober, clean, tidy, loving couples are given all kinds of shit before they can adopt a child and they drag out the adoption process for as long as they can, for no good reason whatsoever.

Wait a sec...this isn't a black/white dichotomy. There are plenty of adoptive parents who are less than ideal and there are birth mothers/fathers who could be good parents with support but for a variety of reasons feel unable to care for a child.

I think one of the huge problems with adoption is the lack of access of information to adoptees. As an adult, I would need my mother's written permission in order to get access to my original birth certificate. I also had no way of accessing any medical info of my birth father's so I had no clue what health issues were possible (I have been reunited with my birth father for about 5 years now).

Internationally, there are issues such as lack of oversight, and children not being "orphans" in the sense of having no family to care for them. Many families in Africa and Latin America are extremely impoverished and feel this is the only option for their kids to have a better life. Not to mention in some places families are coerced by being told their kids are being sent to America to get an education and are not savvy enough to understand that their children are being taken away from them forever.

I know you mean well with your statement but I think you need to do more research to learn more about the adoption triad and other issues surrounding adoption. It's not all sunshine and unicorns.

[nelliebelle1197]

I figured her sister Kendyl (deer-in-the-headlights Mary Kay-spackled Barbie pose) was probably helping out. She's been dating the same guy now for a few years and no ring on her finger, so plenty of free time to help out. Maybe she's decided not to marry until her sister is healed, which is noble, but she's no spring chicken in terms of southern girls go (I think she's probably 25-ish now?).

Lots of logistics for that family, for sure.

Are you trying to say everyone in the south gets married at 12 or some other ridiculous thing like that? Just FYI, a quick google search will show you that Washington and most of the southern US have the same average marrying age -26 - while youngest ages are closer to you in Utah, Idaho & Wyoming. So she really she is no spring chicken in terms of girls out west and younger than average for the south.

[lilwriter85]

I feel so sad for her children. I never understood why they were in such a rush to adopt. Waiting until she was five years cancer free would have allowed her to work so they could save up the money and they were both relatively young she still would have been under 30 when they adopted. I wonder if her sister has moved into their house to care for the children while Lyndsie stays with their parents. I also would think the garage bedroom is to give her space and quiet.

I think part of the rush to adopt was because of the fundie lite subcultures they are a part of. Daniel was 25 and Lyndsie was 23, when they started the process and they had only been married a year. Some of their friends and relatives that were around the same age were already starting their families. I think Daniel and Lyndsie could have been feeling that they didn't quite fit in with fundie lite friends and relatives. I don't know if D&L had friends that weren't fundie lite/fundie. I remember on the first blog Lyndsie would write about whenever friends or relatives had babies. Maybe, if D&L weren't fundie lite, there might not have been a rush to adopt.