How I Lost My Daughter to Religious Fundamentalism

[samismad]

Agree with lawlifelgbt, remember that we're only hearing the one side of the story, and not just in terms of the breakdown of the relationship, but also in regards to the money situation. In a related manner, my mother recently criticised me to several family members as "always coming over whenever (I'm) sick" but never wanting to have anything to do with her the rest of the time. The truth with all that is that the hospitals I was admitted / released to usually insisted that I notify my next of kin and she'd insist. Even though I'd made other plans.

There's always a reason for someone emotionally leaving their family, especially if it's brutal.

[2xx1xy1JD]

There were a couple of odd bits that didn't make sense. The most glaring was the part about the kerchief, because the main groups involved in Orthodox campus outreach do NOT encourage unmarried women to do this. The other part was about not attending a party with people who are not keep Shabbat. There are a number of things in Orthodox Judaism that do depend on whether somebody keeps the Sabbath (like reliability as a witness in religious matters or ability to cook kosher food for others without supervision), but attending a party for a parent is not one of them.

3 possibilities comes to mind:

1. The author and/or editor accidentally got some details wrong. Fine, but then I wonder about the accuracy of the other points.

2. The author's daughter was involved with a fringe group that's quite different from the main Orthodox/ultra-Orthodox groups. Fine, but then that group should be identified. The author's broad swipe at organized kiruv (outreach) suggests that she's talking about one of the big organizations (Chabad, Aish HaTorah or Or Samayach), so if this didn't happen with them, that should be stated because this article suggests that they act like this.

3. The author is using a number of details, either from some personal experience or gathered from public sources, but some or all of the story is fictional.

Re financial support:

I don't like the idea of using financial support to control the actions of your kids.

If this involved another dispute (child coming out a gay, parent not liking a partner, child becoming less religious), many people here would say that the parents are being manipulative and controlling if they threaten to take away support.

If we take this account at face value, it sounds like the parents had a fair bit of money, and the daughter may have already been a bit spoiled. Note the reference to the family having 3 ovens. I think it's good for kids, even if the parents have funds, to know that there is no magic wallet and that they will be expected to make reasonable contributions to their own expenses and encouraged to work toward financial independence. I've known a number of people who suffered because their parents gave them too much, didn't prepare them to be financially independent and responsible, and then used money to show favoritism or exercise control over their grown children.

Re general "kiruv" approach to family members:

This varies from group to group, and from rabbi to rabbi. I don't know every single group, and it has also been 20 years since I graduated university. I do know many people who became religious through Chabad or Aish HaTorah, and a good friend of ours became religious through Ohr Samayach.

I haven't personally encountered any groups that will say, "cut off parents altogether, even if they are supportive and tolerant of your observance." I have encountered groups that will say the exact opposite, and encourage people to make the effort to honor parents even if they get resistance.

I have seen a range of approaches to how people are encouraged to view their less observant family members and how they are encouraged to resolve disputes. Some focus on potential problems, others focus on solutions.

Some practical issues DO arise. It's a challenge when an adult child announces that they cannot eat your food, or cannot drive to you on Saturdays or holidays, or won't attend a non-Orthodox synagogue, or will only plan a wedding/Bar Mitzvah if there is separate dancing for men and women. My experience is that practical issues have solutions, as long as everyone gets along and shows some respect and goodwill. Problems tend to arise when people stop dealing with things on a practical level, and it becomes all about feeling hurt.

IMHO, some problems also arise because people tend to become more religious in their late teen/early 20s, and the disputes are really about the child becoming more independent and making choices that the parents don't like. My husband and I were slightly atypical, since we didn't do a sudden transformation, and we were in our 30s by the time we finally became strictly kosher and Sabbath observant. For some, there's a certain amount of typical "you can't tell me what to do", combined with a certain amount of self-righteousness that comes along with this age and stage.

[2xx1xy1JD]

An editor at Kveller has published a follow-up post, on why she chooses to believe women.

http://www.kveller.com/why-i-choose-to-believe-women/ [unbroken because it's not a fundie blog]

The response is pissing me off.

1. This is NOT about a woman reporting sexual assault to authorities. It's about a mother complaining that her relationship with her daughter went downhill. Not. The. Same.

2. If you'd listen to my grandmother when I was growing up, my mother was a horrible daughter. She repeatedly told us how everyone else treated their mothers better, everyone else treated her better, everyone else's daughter was smarter than my mom, everyone else daughter wasn't as fat as my mom, etc. In fact, my mom put up with tons of shit and has spent countless hours arranging social services, ensuring that grandma got proper medical care, paying out of her own pocket for a private caregiver at the nursing home, etc. She's also a very petite, slim woman with a Master's degree.

My MIL constantly heard from her mother that she was the worst daughter in the world. In fact, she has bend over backward to constantly accommodate a woman who is emotionally abusive.

3. I listen to men too. Women don't have a magic monopoly on truth.

4. I don't automatically believe anything or anybody. This is not a sign of disrespect. It's a sign that I have a functioning brain and critical thinking skills. I'm not saying that someone's story shouldn't be told. I'm saying that asking questions is not the same as silencing someone. Asking questions is also not oppositional, or a sign of persecution.

5. Sometimes, people don't tell the truth. Razing Ruth is one example. Many of my cases also involve information that is wrong or fabricated. We figure out the truth by thinking critically, looking for evidence, and asking questions.

[Firiel]

An editor at Kveller has published a follow-up post, on why she chooses to believe women.

http://www.kveller.com/why-i-choose-to-believe-women/ [unbroken because it's not a fundie blog]

The response is pissing me off.

1. This is NOT about a woman reporting sexual assault to authorities. It's about a mother complaining that her relationship with her daughter went downhill. Not. The. Same.

2. If you'd listen to my grandmother when I was growing up, my mother was a horrible daughter. She repeatedly told us how everyone else treated their mothers better, everyone else treated her better, everyone else's daughter was smarter than my mom, everyone else daughter wasn't as fat as my mom, etc. In fact, my mom put up with tons of shit and has spent countless hours arranging social services, ensuring that grandma got proper medical care, paying out of her own pocket for a private caregiver at the nursing home, etc. She's also a very petite, slim woman with a Master's degree.

My MIL constantly heard from her mother that she was the worst daughter in the world. In fact, she has bend over backward to constantly accommodate a woman who is emotionally abusive.

3. I listen to men too. Women don't have a magic monopoly on truth.

4. I don't automatically believe anything or anybody. This is not a sign of disrespect. It's a sign that I have a functioning brain and critical thinking skills. I'm not saying that someone's story shouldn't be told. I'm saying that asking questions is not the same as silencing someone. Asking questions is also not oppositional, or a sign of persecution.

5. Sometimes, people don't tell the truth. Razing Ruth is one example. Many of my cases also involve information that is wrong or fabricated. We figure out the truth by thinking critically, looking for evidence, and asking questions.

UGH. I agree with you.

NOT. THE. SAME.

I had niggling doubts while reading this story not related to the specific religious elements (which I know next to nothing about). For me, I just got the same kind of perpetual victim vibe I see in my mom. I feel like my mom could have written this piece (and truly believed it) when we had our falling out (completely unrelated to religion). Like the daughter's actions are a personal and intentional affront to the mother and any pain the daughter might be feeling is completely eclipsed by the mother's experience. And actually, reading this piece kind of triggered those feelings of guilt and inadequacy in me again. The fact that a woman wrote this is NOT why I doubt the veracity/fairness of it. It's because it reflects so directly an experience I had.

[NachosFlandersStyle]

I'm kind of fascinated by the response that so many have, especially since here we often talk about the damage that these isolating cults do to families. I wonder what kind of essay the author could have written that would not provoke disbelief. Is it off-limits for a parent to write mournfully about their child's direction in life?

[Firiel]

I'm kind of fascinated by the response that so many have, especially since here we often talk about the damage that these isolating cults do to families. I wonder what kind of essay the author could have written that would not provoke disbelief. Is it off-limits for a parent to write mournfully about their child's direction in life?

It was the tone for me. I'm sure I could analyze specific instances if I had the time, but it just seemed so one-sided. Even here, we discuss what might have driven people to fundamentalism. The author doesn't reflect on that at all. It's all about the evil cult, the ungrateful child, and the victim mother. Real people aren't archetypes.

This last line gave me the chills, and not in a good way:

And when she looked at me, I could see that, despite the distance between us, in that brief moment she finally realized: For some things in life, a girl will always need her mother.

The moment of victory is a moment in which the mother believes that the daughter recognizes she is dependent on the mother. Not a moment in which they come together despite differences, but a moment of power and possession. Yuck.

[Idolatry]

UGH. I agree with you.

NOT. THE. SAME.

I had niggling doubts while reading this story not related to the specific religious elements (which I know next to nothing about). For me, I just got the same kind of perpetual victim vibe I see in my mom. I feel like my mom could have written this piece (and truly believed it) when we had our falling out (completely unrelated to religion). Like the daughter's actions are a personal and intentional affront to the mother and any pain the daughter might be feeling is completely eclipsed by the mother's experience. And actually, reading this piece kind of triggered those feelings of guilt and inadequacy in me again. The fact that a woman wrote this is NOT why I doubt the veracity/fairness of it. It's because it reflects so directly an experience I had.

I completely agree about the victim vibe from the whole thing. Reminds me of my oldest sister. She would leave out the part where she told everyone at the wedding showing knees they are going to hell and that she never thought you'd make it through college anyway.

Also from the response on Kveller: "I stand with every writer we have or ever will have. I believe you." LOL. Obviously, women don't lie, and writers don't lie. Glad we worked that one out.

[NachosFlandersStyle]

It was the tone for me. I'm sure I could analyze specific instances if I had the time, but it just seemed so one-sided. Even here, we discuss what might have driven people to fundamentalism. The author doesn't reflect on that at all. It's all about the evil cult, the ungrateful child, and the victim mother. Real people aren't archetypes.

This last line gave me the chills, and not in a good way:

The moment of victory is a moment in which the mother believes that the daughter recognizes she is dependent on the mother. Not a moment in which they come together despite differences, but a moment of power and possession. Yuck.

I agree that it would have been nice to see more discussion of WHY someone would do something so drastic rather than simply describing the effects of the daughter's choice. But I'm also uncomfortable with the idea that if someone's life goes off track it's because they had terrible parents. My parents could easily tell a comparable story about my brother-- his issue is drugs, not religion, but a lot of the story is the same. I would hate to think that someone would hear my parents talk about the distress he has caused them and about their efforts to help him, and be interpreted as selfish, overbearing liars.

[Idolatry]

I agree that it would have been nice to see more discussion of WHY someone would do something so drastic rather than simply describing the effects of the daughter's choice. But I'm also uncomfortable with the idea that if someone's life goes off track it's because they had terrible parents. My parents could easily tell a comparable story about my brother-- his issue is drugs, not religion, but a lot of the story is the same. I would hate to think that someone would hear my parents talk about the distress he has caused them and about their efforts to help him, and be interpreted as selfish, overbearing liars.

Would your mom write a whining piece to strangers listing all the things they did to be perfect parents, and how sad the drugs have been FOR HER? When real mothers go through this, they hurt for their child, not for their weird possession-thing that eventually comes around to realize mom is always right. The tone is so off.

My mother is crushed I'm not a fundie because her brainwashing believes I'm wasting my life with worldly triviality and I'll go to hell, not because it's all about her. If she were to write this article about losing me, she would barely be in it. I would imagine it's the same for your parents and the drugs. But, what do I know, my mom is not this dramatic and whiny, so she'd never write this.

[Rachel333]

I didn't mind the article. I really hate that when something goes wrong with a kid a lot of people immediately rush to blaming the parents. Mothers used to be blamed for schizophrenia, autism, stutters, and a lot more. It's only within the past few years that clinicians have begun to accept that eating disorders are primarily genetic in nature, not the fault of bad parenting.

I've had my own issues, and it bothered me a lot that doctors and therapists would jump straight to blaming my parents. Bad parents can certainly make things worse, but a lot of times these things happen on their own.

I felt a lot of sympathy for the mother in this article. It's a classic feature of cults to distance members for their family. Even Christianity emphasizes putting God in front of family. (I actually didn't remember how bad it is.) I'm the sure the mother here isn't perfect, and even if there weren't mother/daughter issues before, a situation like this is just going to cause more, but I found her narrative believable. We are only hearing one side, but cults are toxic and I don't see an immediate reason to think this is the mother's fault.

[NachosFlandersStyle]

Would your mom write a whining piece to strangers listing all the things they did to be perfect parents, and how sad the drugs have been FOR HER? When real mothers go through this, they hurt for their child, not for their weird possession-thing that eventually comes around to realize mom is always right. The tone is so off.

My mother is crushed I'm not a fundie because her brainwashing believes I'm wasting my life with worldly triviality and I'll go to hell, not because it's all about her. If she were to write this article about losing me, she would barely be in it. I would imagine it's the same for your parents and the drugs. But, what do I know, my mom is not this dramatic and whiny, so she'd never write this.

I guess I just read the tone a little differently. It's always a gray area when people publish writing about their real life, and it's tough not to focus on your own side of the story. You're right, she is talking more about what she and her husband are experiencing than what her daughter is experiencing. But we often wonder "what do the relatives of these fundies think about their choices?" And I think this probably describes how a lot of those people are feeling. I'm not defending it to take sides or anything, I just thought it was an interesting read.

[browncoatslytherin]

I guess I just read the tone a little differently. It's always a gray area when people publish writing about their real life, and it's tough not to focus on your own side of the story. You're right, she is talking more about what she and her husband are experiencing than what her daughter is experiencing. But we often wonder "what do the relatives of these fundies think about their choices?" And I think this probably describes how a lot of those people are feeling. I'm not defending it to take sides or anything, I just thought it was an interesting read.

i read the tone a little differently, too. i suppose unless we know all sides of the story, we don't really know the whole story, but the author may have written it the way she did for a specific reason, we don't know and won't know unless there is a follow up or a comment from her. i thought it was interesting for the same reason, nacho, because it described something that is very likely the same thing that relatives of the families we follow here go through. like michelle duggar's parents, zsu's parents, lorken's parents, etc. that's kind of the way i read it, at least. whether the story is totally true or not, or if there's more to the story that contradicts what we've read so far, i don't know. i'm just stating how i originally read it.

[Firiel]

I know that my own experience with a mother/daughter falling out colored the way I read this piece.

But I admit that I have no way of knowing whether it made me more perceptive or just too sensitive! :)

[2xx1xy1JD]

I'm kind of fascinated by the response that so many have, especially since here we often talk about the damage that these isolating cults do to families. I wonder what kind of essay the author could have written that would not provoke disbelief. Is it off-limits for a parent to write mournfully about their child's direction in life?

It depends on the purpose of the essay.

If someone is writing to express their subjective feelings of loss since an adult child has become more distant, that's fine if it is clearly labelled as such. Make it clear if you are writing under a pseudonym. Understand that others may accept that you are venting about your feelings, but may not blindly accept your version of the facts.

If, however, someone is writing to address what they believe is a harmful practice, be prepared to be specific and back up what is written.

For example:

"Rabbi X, campus rabbi for Y organization on Z campus, was working with my daughter in 2012. She was given books and handouts with the following excerpts dealing with non-observant parents: [insert quotes]. Rabbi X says that he encourages the parent-child relationship, but we also found him making the following statements: [insert quotes]. Here's a clip from a class that he recorded in 2013, where he is totally dismissive of the parent/child relationship: [insert clip].

We spoke to other parents on campus and compared notes. Here are a list of things that Rabbi X did to sabotage parent/child relationships: [give list with dates and full details].

We also met some students who had also studied with Rabbi X. They report that he taught the following: [give names, dates and details].

We contacted the parent organization about Rabbi X. Here was their response: [insert response]"

There are specific rabbis that I would avoid like the plague when it comes to family issues re observance. They are some that are extremely sensible and helpful. From listening to lectures and from hearing the stories of MANY people around me, I can tell the difference and would give someone advice on who to see and who to avoid if it came up. These stories come from people I know personally, from lectures that were given in public, and from patterns that are very clear. For example, someone telling me "Rabbi X encouraged our son to go to this specific yeshiva high school even though we made it clear that we would not support this choice due to lack of good academics. This caused a strain in the relationship, and he had no business telling a 15 yr old to go against his parents." It's not just about one unknown person making a general accusation about a whole group of people and blaming them for the loss of a relationship.

[browncoatslytherin]

It depends on the purpose of the essay.

If someone is writing to express their subjective feelings of loss since an adult child has become more distant, that's fine if it is clearly labelled as such. Make it clear if you are writing under a pseudonym. Understand that others may accept that you are venting about your feelings, but may not blindly accept your version of the facts.

If, however, someone is writing to address what they believe is a harmful practice, be prepared to be specific and back up what is written.

For example:

"Rabbi X, campus rabbi for Y organization on Z campus, was working with my daughter in 2012. She was given books and handouts with the following excerpts dealing with non-observant parents: [insert quotes]. Rabbi X says that he encourages the parent-child relationship, but we also found him making the following statements: [insert quotes]. Here's a clip from a class that he recorded in 2013, where he is totally dismissive of the parent/child relationship: [insert clip].

We spoke to other parents on campus and compared notes. Here are a list of things that Rabbi X did to sabotage parent/child relationships: [give list with dates and full details].

We also met some students who had also studied with Rabbi X. They report that he taught the following: [give names, dates and details].

We contacted the parent organization about Rabbi X. Here was their response: [insert response]"

There are specific rabbis that I would avoid like the plague when it comes to family issues re observance. They are some that are extremely sensible and helpful. From listening to lectures and from hearing the stories of MANY people around me, I can tell the difference and would give someone advice on who to see and who to avoid if it came up. These stories come from people I know personally, from lectures that were given in public, and from patterns that are very clear. For example, someone telling me "Rabbi X encouraged our son to go to this specific yeshiva high school even though we made it clear that we would not support this choice due to lack of good academics. This caused a strain in the relationship, and he had no business telling a 15 yr old to go against his parents." It's not just about one unknown person making a general accusation about a whole group of people and blaming them for the loss of a relationship.

oh i understand what you're saying, here. and i do agree, if the writer's purpose is to speak out against something harmful, then pile on the facts and specifics! if that was indeed her purpose, i'm sure she would want to warn against certain people so that other parents could avoid her heartbreak.

i suppose her purpose wasn't terribly clear, which is why i sort of read it as emotional essay looking back at a child's descent into an extreme form of religion. most of the time, i tend to think the best of people and their intentions, so i'll freely admit that if this is not the case, then my original assumption was wrong.

[2xx1xy1JD]

oh i understand what you're saying, here. and i do agree, if the writer's purpose is to speak out against something harmful, then pile on the facts and specifics! if that was indeed her purpose, i'm sure she would want to warn against certain people so that other parents could avoid her heartbreak.

i suppose her purpose wasn't terribly clear, which is why i sort of read it as emotional essay looking back at a child's descent into an extreme form of religion. most of the time, i tend to think the best of people and their intentions, so i'll freely admit that if this is not the case, then my original assumption was wrong.

There's a part of the article where she writes:

The enterprise, known as kiruv, or “bringing close,†stems from the fervent belief that a Jew can only live a true Jewish life by adopting ultra-Orthodoxy. Today, it is executed with corporate-style efficiency. Thousands of “kiruv professionals†work across the U.S. and other countries, on hundreds of college campuses, “reaching out†to non-Orthodox students. Training institutes, both in Israel and the U.S., provide resources to the many Orthodox men and women who choose kiruv work as their life’s passion.

That sounds like a warning, and it also sounds like it's making an allegation against everyone involved with kiruv/Jewish outreach.

[browncoatslytherin]

There's a part of the article where she writes:

That sounds like a warning, and it also sounds like it's making an allegation against everyone involved with kiruv/Jewish outreach.

i guess it could sound like a warning, but when i initially read it, it just sounded like a little bit of background information based on what the writer knows from personal experience.

again, just the way i initially read it. i don't doubt others, especially those affected by a toxic parental relationship, would read this differently.

[Escapefromfundiedom]

I read this article and it definitely triggered my own personal mom-trauma. I am confident that this story is quite similar to one my mom would have peddled about me 10 years ago when I left home. Although I left home to marry the man I loved. It was her distorted and unrealistic sense of what our relationship (and how much control she should get over my adult choices - like who to marry) should be that made it a "him or me" choice. I choose my husband over my angry, abusive, manipulative, narcissistic mother (and in her mind, her precious devoted daughter was "stolen" by a mean man) - it wrecked my relationships with the rest of my family for over a decade and still causes pain today, but it was the BEST choice I ever made. And btw - during a recent run-in with my mother, she screamed at me on the phone that I have grown up to be a very mean and angry woman and not at all how I was raised. That was fun. This was around the point in the conversation when I told her that since I am no longer her little child, respect between us is a two-way street and is earned, not obligated. /mommy issues sidetrack

For me what made this story suspicious was the way the mother talked about how her daughter in grade school said "mommy is my best friend" and she seemed to expect that as a normal and healthy long-term outlook for their relationship. And then, as others have pointed out, at the end, her small moment of triumph is during her daughter's labor where it basically comes down to - hah, see, you *still* need me.

Not to discount the destructive nature of fundamentalism when it comes to breaking family ties in the name of purity and holiness - but this story raised some red flags to me...

[Firiel]

For me what made this story suspicious was the way the mother talked about how her daughter in grade school said "mommy is my best friend" and she seemed to expect that as a normal and healthy long-term outlook for their relationship. And then, as others have pointed out, at the end, her small moment of triumph is during her daughter's labor where it basically comes down to - hah, see, you *still* need me.

Yes, thanks for reminding me of that.

The "mommy is my best friend" comment jumped out at me too.

[2xx1xy1JD]

I read this article and it definitely triggered my own personal mom-trauma. I am confident that this story is quite similar to one my mom would have peddled about me 10 years ago when I left home. Although I left home to marry the man I loved. It was her distorted and unrealistic sense of what our relationship (and how much control she should get over my adult choices - like who to marry) should be that made it a "him or me" choice. I choose my husband over my angry, abusive, manipulative, narcissistic mother (and in her mind, her precious devoted daughter was "stolen" by a mean man) - it wrecked my relationships with the rest of my family for over a decade and still causes pain today, but it was the BEST choice I ever made. And btw - during a recent run-in with my mother, she screamed at me on the phone that I have grown up to be a very mean and angry woman and not at all how I was raised. That was fun. This was around the point in the conversation when I told her that since I am no longer her little child, respect between us is a two-way street and is earned, not obligated. /mommy issues sidetrack

For me what made this story suspicious was the way the mother talked about how her daughter in grade school said "mommy is my best friend" and she seemed to expect that as a normal and healthy long-term outlook for their relationship. And then, as others have pointed out, at the end, her small moment of triumph is during her daughter's labor where it basically comes down to - hah, see, you *still* need me.

Not to discount the destructive nature of fundamentalism when it comes to breaking family ties in the name of purity and holiness - but this story raised some red flags to me...

Yeah, I wondered about that line too.

Look, I'm really close with my kids, and I would feel devastated if we lost that. I expect, however, that they are going to become independent adults.

Some other points that I found weird:

- why was a family therapist involved? Why would that therapist be telling the mother about the engagement?

- why is the daughter her "closest confidant"?

- the reference to thick seamed stocking is also weird, although not as out of place as the kerchief reference. There are a few Hassidic groups that wear this type of stockings, but the major groups involved in campus kiruv (outreach) do not. [Again, this makes me question if someone was looking online for details, as opposed to observing these details themselves.]

- she write that she and her husband had worked hard to get the daughter into grad school for psychology and spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on tuition fees. Isn't getting into grad school something that the daughter would have accomplished, not her parents?

- there are constant references to money. They gave the daughter one of their 3 ovens and a dishwasher. They paid hundreds of thousands for tuition. They donated to the rabbi. They bought their grad school daughter a car and gave her a credit card. They are pissed off that the rabbi covered the cost of the trip to Israel. Ok, we get that she's got money. I'm getting the sense that they never expected the daughter to work for her money, and maybe used money to buy love and control.

- the whole wedding story - she goes to the wedding, then her feelings are hurt because her daughter seemed distant so she runs out early? Her main thought while walking down the aisle is that she hates everyone who is happy for her daughter on her wedding day? Why is it all about the mother's feelings, and why is she not focused on her daughter? She cries in the car alone for 20 min and then basically the husband and son are forced to leave the wedding too?

[Terrie]

The mom as best friend thing also made me raise en eyebrow. (Okay, two eyebrows. I can't do the Spock thing to my great disappointment). My mom and I are very close, in part because of my severe anxiety issues as she is my primary support system for that. She is still not my best friend.

[meee]

Yeah, I don't believe a word of this. Way too many inconsistencies, and I've been involved in enough kiruv organizations to know that this is not remotely how they work. The mother sounds unstable.

[Eponine]

While I agree that it seems like there is more to this story, I have to say I don't think the parents giving financial support indicates much about the parent-child relationship. A lot of parents will do anything they can to hold onto a child who seems to be slipping away from them. My older brother tried to keep his immediate family at bay for a variety of petty reasons when he first got married and started having kids, and my parents absolutely bent over backwards to try to spend bits of time with him and his children. They did (and still do) enable his behavior but it's hard to blame them for it - it's either do that or not see their grandchildren.

And from another angle - when I had a nervous breakdown and proceeded to move across the world, the only thing my dad knew how to do was try to throw money at the problem: offer financial support, paying for visits to/from my new country, paying for therapy, anything that he felt like might help. It wasn't because there was anything terrible in our relationship, but my parents are well off and my dad just didn't know how to help and figured that taking care of any financial stress I had was the best thing to do. So..to the question of, "Who would do that??" - my parents definitely would. Without any kind of manipulation or malice.

Not saying I think this is entirely accurate, but that part is believable to me, and I don't really blame them. As for the rest? :think:

[MamaJunebug]

What appears as nothing more than a bunch of highly structured rules to an outsider is perceived and integrated differently in someone living a particular way of life as part of the culture they love.

The traditions and the rules and the structure continue to matter even though it often takes a lot of effort and juggling because so many GOOD memories and so much love have gone into their continuation and preservation.

Thanks, Arête Jo. Enlightened me a little. Reminded me of when an e-correspondent mockingly asked me about the Lutheran doctrine of the Eucharist (she was Baptist, and smirked some questions about how long the benefits of Communion "would last" if I died too long after taking it).

I hope I didn't sound mocking in my op---until you put it to me that way, I'd just not had that frame of reference for why the traditions/rules would be so appealing.

[2xx1xy1JD]

While I agree that it seems like there is more to this story, I have to say I don't think the parents giving financial support indicates much about the parent-child relationship. A lot of parents will do anything they can to hold onto a child who seems to be slipping away from them. My older brother tried to keep his immediate family at bay for a variety of petty reasons when he first got married and started having kids, and my parents absolutely bent over backwards to try to spend bits of time with him and his children. They did (and still do) enable his behavior but it's hard to blame them for it - it's either do that or not see their grandchildren.

And from another angle - when I had a nervous breakdown and proceeded to move across the world, the only thing my dad knew how to do was try to throw money at the problem: offer financial support, paying for visits to/from my new country, paying for therapy, anything that he felt like might help. It wasn't because there was anything terrible in our relationship, but my parents are well off and my dad just didn't know how to help and figured that taking care of any financial stress I had was the best thing to do. So..to the question of, "Who would do that??" - my parents definitely would. Without any kind of manipulation or malice.

Not saying I think this is entirely accurate, but that part is believable to me, and I don't really blame them. As for the rest? :think:

Oh, it wasn't the financial part that made me wonder if this was real. It was the kerchief while the daughter was still single, and to a lesser extent, the seamed stockings. Those are both little details that someone could notice in a Hassidic community or read about online, but if parts of the story were fabricated, she might not realize that only married women would cover their hair or that only certain groups would do that style of stockings.

I do believe that there are parents who throw money at kids, and parents who use money as a means of controlling adult children, because I've seen it. I've also seen helicopter parents who really do view getting a child into academic programs as THEIR job, not the child's. Neither of these things ultimately do children any good.