How I Lost My Daughter to Religious Fundamentalism

[Burris]

Why in hell would anyone put up with this?

When Jenny finally returned home, nine months later, she was nearly unrecognizable. Gone was every glimmer of cheer from her personality, every sign of the affection she had once had for us. Still, she continued to live in our home. We bought her a car and gave her a credit card for her daily needs. Days would pass and I wouldn’t see her. She’d sneak in and out, eat her kosher food alone in her room.

[Idolatry]

Why in hell would anyone put up with this?

Assuming her mother is being totally honest, here, then this kid gave up free schooling in a supportive family so that she might pursue ultra-orthodoxy - and yet her parents gave her a car and a credit card so she could keep spitting in their faces with their money. And in the next paragraph, this...

So - breaking the first of the manward commandments - is that something her rabbi taught her?

[Burris]

Yea who the hell would do this??? It makes no sense. And if you did, who would write a dramatic article to whine to the internet? I would imagine the other side to this story is interesting.

[louisa05]

I wonder if these weren't helicopter parents of the worst kind. Notice the mention of the parents working very hard to get the daughter into the graduate school they considered prestigious. If that is the case, then her conversion could be an extreme rebellion. And I've always suspected that it takes the most extreme types of rebellion to escape the most extreme types of helicopter parents.

[Emme]

I took a similar class, and they present it all in a very logical way and basically can answer any question less religious Jews have. So I see how she could have gotten sucked in. I got a hair more religious for about a month, but I knew I would never really be religious when I heard that the men walked up the stairs first so that they weren't tempted by a woman's butt. (And that you sleep in two different beds) Making women responsible for the behavior of men is a pet peeve and major deal breaker for me.

[Terrie]

it's hard for me to believe, too. maybe there really are people out there who need the extreme "stability" brought by following a bunch of rules, but me being me, it's hard for me to picture, because i'm pretty much the opposite of that. i like to do what i like to do and i don't want to have to be forced to stop and think and consider the little rules and regulations and shit like that. man, fuck it, if i wanna do it, i do it! lol so, knowing that i'm like that, i kind of have to keep in mind that other people are different, and some may even find solace in it, though i don't believe that all that follow fundie lifestyles do genuinely have that solace. jmo.

[shedemei]

I'll write more later unless someone else gets to it, but what this girl got sucked into was a cult like Lev Tahor, NOT orthodoxy or even ultra-orthodoxy. One of the early giveaways is the headcovering as only married Jewish women cover their hair. The farthest the ultra Orthodox usually go is requiring unmarried women to have their hair tied back and never loose.

The accommodations to keep Kosher and Shabbat at first sounded totally normal and respectful to me as well as reasonable for the daughter. The head covering, alienation, and hostility is what comes with the cult.

I wonder which group she joined.

[browncoatslytherin]

I'll write more later unless someone else gets to it, but what this girl got sucked into was a cult like Lev Tahor, NOT orthodoxy or even ultra-orthodoxy. One of the early giveaways is the headcovering as only married Jewish women cover their hair. The farthest the ultra Orthodox usually go is requiring unmarried women to have their hair tied back and never loose.

The accommodations to keep Kosher and Shabbat at first sounded totally normal and respectful to me as well as reasonable for the daughter. The head covering, alienation, and hostility is what comes with the cult.

I wonder which group she joined.

[Avalondaughter]

Stories like these are not all that uncommon. I remember my mother telling me a story about her coworker who could have been this woman. Coworker's daughter turned orthodox and married and moved to Israel. She and her husband had very little money and when her sister was getting married, the mother paid for the daughter's entire family to fly to the US and come to the wedding. Unfortunately, the daughter utterly refused to enter the temple where the wedding took place because it was reform. The mother was livid. What exactly did she pay for?

[anachronistic]

Wow. It's fascinating that this story plays out across so many different religions: Christianity, Judaism, Islam. I'm quite glad that my becoming a dedicated Unitarian Universalist did not affect my family in any way........

[meep]

I see. So if her parents were such horrible people, why did she continue living with them? Apparently it was okay to accept a car and credit cards from them while simultaneously treating them like shit. And she still ONLY calls so she can GET stuff from them. And of course the mother is going to comply, just to get a glimpse of her daughter and grandchildren. It's the daughter's way of manipulating her. I've seen this behavior in my own family I know how this works. Nothing else to say except the daughter is a conniving little bitch. I hope the author doesn't think the whole birth experience is a sign of her daughter letting up, because she won't.

[DGayle]

per the article, they didn't have a problem with her converting to orthodox...but they didn't know she was converting to the orthodoxy that she did. if they'd fully known what their daughter was getting into, perhaps they would have tried to head her off. the vibe i got from it was that she kind of kept the more radical aspects of it quiet around her parents until it was basically too late. and at that point, what are you going to do? your child is deeply entrenched in something that you didn't even realize they were getting into, or getting into at the level that they were.** cutting her off would mean she would completely cut them out as well, and i think it scared them because they didn't want to completely lose their daughter.

**i use the general "you" in these two sentences, not directed at anyone in particular, just to be clear

This is why I can't blame the parents for the money spent. Anything to keep from further distancing their daughter. They were trying to buy her back. It was a losing battle.

Daenerys, I think she would have gone still. Her rabbi footed the trip, and might have supported her if her parents said no and used that as proof they needed to be cut out.

[FloraKitty35]

Sad, but the Mom sounds like an enabler and the daughter like a spoiled brat.

[DGayle]

I see. So if her parents were such horrible people, why did she continue living with them? Apparently it was okay to accept a car and credit cards from them while simultaneously treating them like shit. And she still ONLY calls so she can GET stuff from them. And of course the mother is going to comply, just to get a glimpse of her daughter and grandchildren. It's the daughter's way of manipulating her. I've seen this behavior in my own family I know how this works. Nothing else to say except the daughter is a conniving little bitch. I hope the author doesn't think the whole birth experience is a sign of her daughter letting up, because she won't.

Yeah, this sounds like my brother-in-law. My MIL keeps paying up because it's the only way to not get cut off from her other grandkids (she's got my husband and his brother for kids, and grandkids by each). The last day of her last visit here was spent trying to keep BIL's ass out of jail. He calls when he wants something. His wife calls when she wants something. MIL told me she feels relief with a DIL calls and it's me because I treat her like my daughters' grandma instead of an ATM.

I'm not blaming my MIL for any of this, but I'm really annoyed that she had to give her other son the money she was going to give my husband and I to put toward a house. her childhood family farm was sold and the money split among the kids. She was going to give us money and her older son money, but then found out BIL managed to get 17 years in arrears on his older kids, and it caught up. Pay up, or jail, and if he went to jail, he and his wife swore she couldn't see the kids anymore since they'd have to move too much and that would make it impossible and all kinds of bullshit reasons. I know we aren't entitled to the money either, but I'm just really pissed that she had to renege on a promise because she was put in a position of buying access to her other grandkids who are already neglected.

I'm not sure what manipulated people are supposed to do when there are kids involved. It's either give in and pay up, or lose the kids. Maybe I'm heartless, but if my kids didn't have kids and pulled this shit, I'd pull back on the financial support. If there are grandkids, I'd be paying anything to get to see them.

[Daenerys]

This is why I can't blame the parents for the money spent. Anything to keep from further distancing their daughter. They were trying to buy her back. It was a losing battle.

Daenerys, I think she would have gone still. Her rabbi footed the trip, and might have supported her if her parents said no and used that as proof they needed to be cut out.

I don't fault them for letting her come back and live in their house, it's right of them to provide an open door for her to come back when she's their child.

It's the active support that bemuses me. I dropped out of college at one point and my parents were FURIOUS but they still let me stay at home. What they didn't do was give me any money, transportation or means to just enable me to lounge around doing whatever I wanted. I was expected to find a job if I wanted money to do anything with, and actually look after myself beyond the most basic of needs. It forced me to get out the house and do something, which was the catalyst for me eventually turning my life round and going back to college to do something I liked.

The line was basically that I could live in my room, have a set of keys and eat the food that they had cooked: but if I'd wanted to do something different to how they did it, like become vegetarian, I would have had to pay for and cook all my own food.

I wonder if joining this cult was the daughter's way of looking for belonging she hadn't found at home. She seems to have been well provided for materially, but I wonder if it was in any way covering up for a lack of emotional input. The mother still tries to express her love through buying things, which I just can't imagine my own mother ever doing.

[Jana814]

Stories like these are not all that uncommon. I remember my mother telling me a story about her coworker who could have been this woman. Coworker's daughter turned orthodox and married and moved to Israel. She and her husband had very little money and when her sister was getting married, the mother paid for the daughter's entire family to fly to the US and come to the wedding. Unfortunately, the daughter utterly refused to enter the temple where the wedding took place because it was reform. The mother was livid. What exactly did she pay for?

Wow!! That is true that really religious Jews would go into reformed temples. But that is sad cause it was her sister's wedding.

[Coldwinterskies]

I wonder if these weren't helicopter parents of the worst kind. Notice the mention of the parents working very hard to get the daughter into the graduate school they considered prestigious. If that is the case, then her conversion could be an extreme rebellion. And I've always suspected that it takes the most extreme types of rebellion to escape the most extreme types of helicopter parents.

I agree. Perhaps she resented that the parents were putting academic pressure on her. I can see how if she had felt forced or coerced to pursue an academic path/career that she didn't consider rewarding that she may have found solace in an extreme religion that (I would expect) probably doesn't expect women to work at all.

It would definitely be interesting to hear the daughter's perspective on what happened. She may very well be brainwashed by a cult, but the way the parents kept showering her with money does seem like a sign of unhealthy enabling behavior.

To me, it sounds not much different than the parents who enable their adult child who has a drug/alcohol problem. Yes, it is understandable that a parent might feel that giving money to their heroin addicted daughter is better than the daughter becoming a prostitute (I would probably feel the same impulse if I were a parent of a heroin addict), but that doesn't mean the enabling behavior is healthy.

[Soulhuntress]

Kiruv was a word used a lot: Aish Ha Torah is apparently the organizer? http://stopkiruvnow.blogspot.com/

[Coldwinterskies]

i'll be interested to read your (or someone else's) post. while i know about certain cults, especially christian in nature, i'd never heard of many jewish cults before.

Cults are an area of interest for me (that's what the "BITE" graphic I use refers to : https://www.freedomofmind.com/Info/BITE/bitemodel.php )

When you start looking for the signs, it is really quite disturbing just how prevalent mind control techniques are in various types of groups (and not just religious ones). I feel that a lot of organizations out there use unethical techniques to attract and retain followers even if they are not full blown cults.

[browncoatslytherin]

Cults are an area of interest for me (that's what the "BITE" graphic I use refers to : https://www.freedomofmind.com/Info/BITE/bitemodel.php )

When you start looking for the signs, it is really quite disturbing just how prevalent mind control techniques are in various types of groups (and not just religious ones). I feel that a lot of organizations out there use unethical techniques to attract and retain followers even if they are not full blown cults.

thanks! i like new reading material :)

[Ex 2x2]

I'll write more later unless someone else gets to it, but what this girl got sucked into was a cult like Lev Tahor, NOT orthodoxy or even ultra-orthodoxy. One of the early giveaways is the headcovering as only married Jewish women cover their hair. The farthest the ultra Orthodox usually go is requiring unmarried women to have their hair tied back and never loose.

The accommodations to keep Kosher and Shabbat at first sounded totally normal and respectful to me as well as reasonable for the daughter. The head covering, alienation, and hostility is what comes with the cult.

I wonder which group she joined.

Just watched two documentaries on Lev Tahor. I'd never heard of it before. Absolutely fascinating!

[cindyluvs24]

These groups also play into the secular parents' embarrassment at being non-observant Jews (remember, we invented guilt). So the parents gave money and help to this rabbi - I bet he convinced them they "needed" to become better Jews or whatever. I know two people who got sucked into this crap and they won't visit at their parents' home. God forbid the glasses are not kashered and a drink of water might expose them to a molecule of trayf, but they have no problem as adults, from accepting money from daddy to help defray Yeshiva tuition for the six kids. Never mind that daddy is still working as a tax attorney at 73 because he has "expenses." These groups are very good at capitalizing on chinks in the family relationship. Had momma not provided so much financial help to the daughter, i think this story would have turned out differently. Now, grandma will end up with at least 2 more grandkids in the next 5 years which means sending more money to her daughter in order to keep contact. It stinks all around. If and when the daughter gets her shit together and wants to leave, she'll have a devil of a time with custody and support from him.

[Arete]

I enjoy reading Kveller but try as I might, I never do grok the benefits folks perceive from highly structured lives. Mayim Bialik's Modern Orthodox way of life, alone, perplexes me. FWIW. Off to read the story in the OP.

What appears as nothing more than a bunch of highly structured rules to an outsider is perceived and integrated differently in someone living a particular way of life as part of the culture they love.

The traditions and the rules and the structure continue to matter even though it often takes a lot of effort and juggling because so many GOOD memories and so much love have gone into their continuation and preservation.

[Soulhuntress]

What appears as nothing more than a bunch of highly structured rules to an outsider is perceived and integrated differently in someone living a particular way of life as part of the culture they love.

The traditions and the rules and the structure continue to matter even though it often takes a lot of effort and juggling because so many GOOD memories and so much love have gone into their continuation and preservation.

The structured life reminds me in a way of the cloistered life. my issue is with the outright shunning of families and bait and switch from scuba to virtual burkhas.

[lawlifelgbt]

It's interesting to me, to read people's perspectives on the financial support this girl's family provided. I'm actually finding myself more on the other side of the coin. I'm the "bad daughter" who left, except it was to get married, not to be a fundamentalist. I know that I don't have much relationship with my parents any more, and I also realize that on some level, I've hurt them by choosing to get married young to a same-sex partner they don't like, and by not spending time with them.

But it's a bit different for me. We may be quite poor, but I don't ask my mother for outright money, and we don't live with my family. I've only asked her for one thing since I got married 11 1/2 months ago- books for prepping for the bar. If I'm asked what I want for Christmas/birthday, or given money when I do see my family (my dad usually forces a 20 or two into my hand when I leave), I take it. But, I don't ask my parents to support my life like that girl did.

Then again, when I was home between college and law school, I saved most of my work money, lived with my parents, and ate their food, while avoiding them as much as possible. I knew, though, that I shouldn't antagonize them or just not work and still expect support, and I helped by watching their dog so they could go on trips to see my brother or vacation. But I counted the days until I could leave.

From my perspective, then, I think you may not be asking all applicable questions. As well as "but why are the parents still supporting her?" what about asking "why is there a disconnect like this in the first place?" Because from my experience, that level of isolation and dislike for one's family generally has a really good reason. So before you call the girl a hypocrite or a mooch, consider that you might not know enough about her situation. Just because the parents seem good may not mean anything- my mother ties herself into knots to look like a good parent and to have a good reputation, but was vicious, hyper-critical, and controlling through guilt as long as I was living with her (and still now, through technology).