Being one of 19

[nachtmusik]

I only have one sibling. The fact that my family life wasn't great coupled with our being so close in age (less than a year apart) didn't leave me wishing for another sister/brother to be running around the house. I don't think I would be able to survive in the Duggar household.

My mother, on the other hand, was one of 6. She was the third oldest, I believe. I think she has very mixed feelings about the whole situation. I've heard her praising the fact that she always had someone around to talk to/play with, but I've also heard her complain about the lack of privacy and her parents' struggle for money. She has said that her parents were quite good at making sure all of their children felt loved and important, though.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

I think that the size of the family doesn't matter so much as the quality of family interactions. I've known single children from wealthy families who had awful relationships with their families, and I knew a girl who was one of 10 (and a twin as well) living in a bit too small of a house driving a bit too old of a used bus/van type vehicle who had an amazing relationship with her entire family. The difference being those single children had parents who focused on the material goods, their children's grades, their social obligations, etc, but put little effort into quality time and meeting their emotional needs; however, the girl who was 1 of 10 was always able to have all of her needs, especially her emotional needs, met by her parents and her siblings.

[Johanna25]

I think a lot of you all who think parents, friends, etc. had good experiences in large families are too quick to accept the "good face" people put on their life experiences; you don't really know what's held secret in their hearts. Sure, I had fantastic experiences growing up, I always knew I was loved, I never went hungry, my needs were met, and they were always there for me when I really needed them. I love my parents and all 7 of my siblings. I have nothing to reproach them for. If anyone asks, I had a great childhood, and I'm grateful to have so many sibs. We all play the cards we are dealt and healthy individuals don't weep and wail over it, you put on your best face and get on with it.

It's almost the same as asking parents if they'd do it over again, what do you expect them to say?

It's probably only in a forum like this, between you, me, and the devil, that I can say, yes...but...It might have been better.

[SassyPants]

The problem I have seen, at 55 and a Catholic school attendee for 17 years, I was surrounded by large and mega families, most people do not necessarily parent large numbers of children well. There are only 24 hours in each day and there is no way to expand that space of time. 2 parents cannot morph into 6 or 8 parents. This is all before we consider the money and effort raising a large family requires.

Extraordinary people have a shot. People like Josh and his parents, not so much.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

I think a lot of you all who think parents, friends, etc. had good experiences in large families are too quick to accept the "good face" people put on their life experiences; you don't really know what's held secret in their hearts. Sure, I had fantastic experiences growing up, I always knew I was loved, I never went hungry, my needs were met, and they were always there for me when I really needed them. I love my parents and all 7 of my siblings. I have nothing to reproach them for. If anyone asks, I had a great childhood, and I'm grateful to have so many sibs. We all play the cards we are dealt and healthy individuals don't weep and wail over it, you put on your best face and get on with it.

It's almost the same as asking parents if they'd do it over again, what do you expect them to say?

It's probably only in a forum like this, between you, me, and the devil, that I can say, yes...but...It might have been better.

Yea, but I think anyone can say that. I mean, I love my siblings to death, but I think it would have been better if my parents had stopped at 2 or had made it to 4. I very often felt like the "odd man out" growing up because my brother and sister were glued at the hip, and didn't really make space for me all the time. And, since I was the oldest I was also the one who had the strictest set of rules, was blamed for all the things my siblings did, I was punished for all the things they claimed I did, etc. My parents obviously loved me, but I often felt like I was their least favorite (may or may not be true), which definitely bred resentment. Anyone who just happened to know our family would have seen us as a pretty normal family, but my friends knew all the problems I had because I'm not one to not rant about my issues when they're happening. So, yea, my life could have been better if there were different circumstances. But, they also could have been worse. I mean, with only 2, my parents could have been more strict, or my sister and I could have had an awful relationship. If I was an only child, it would have been boring and really sad (my family moved a lot when were were kids, so having siblings gave me a sense of stability I wouldn't have been able to replicate with friends). If there were 4 kids, there's no telling how that kid would have been. Could have been an absolute nightmare.

[Trynn]

I was an only child for my first 7 years of life, the my parents had a boy.

Boys are rare in our family, so it was quick to see who was the favorite.

So I have a lot of resentment over that. However....

I'm glad I had at least one sibling. He was too young for me to really play with, BUT he got the attention off of me, which was, in hindsight, a good thing.

My little brother didn't start tying his own shoes till he was 11 or 12 because "I already know how to do it, so why shouldn't mom and dad just do it for me?"

Also, he was about the same age when my parents stopped getting him his food in the line at potluck.

He was also majorly babied, even at school, and spoiled rotten.

And that could've been me. If I hadn't had a sibling, my mom might've still been tying my shoes at age 12, and getting me my food at that age, etc.

I know youngest children are often spoiled, but I feel like my brother's case is a bit extreme.

So, I'm glad I had a sibling, because heaven help it if I turned out like my brother.

That said, when I was an only child, I wanted a sibling, but only a female, and close enough in age to play with would've been nice. There's only so many games a 7 year old can play with a baby before boredom sets in, which is something I still hate my parents for not understanding....

[Rescinded and Mended]

Mr. R and M came from a large family. He was one of the younger kids, and he often complains how there wasn't enough to go around. Food, attention, resources, you name it. He always felt his mother was mostly interested in having a new baby to cuddle on a regular basis.

It reached its peak when my husband's parents actually kidnapped one of their grandchildren. Their excuse was that the baby was being abused. Problem was, there were two other children in the household. The mom had passed away, so why not just call the police on their son and petition to get custody of all three? But no, they grabbed the baby and fled across several states and raised him as their own. Hubby's brother was a violent alcoholic at this point, so it is quite possible that he simply didn't care. But it still doesn't justify the kidnapping or the fact that two other innocent children were left in that situation.

Even worse, my husband was only about 11 or 12 when that happened. They essentially abandoned him.

Grandbaby Rabies, indeed.

[Jana814]

Mr. R and M came from a large family. He was one of the younger kids, and he often complains how there wasn't enough to go around. Food, attention, resources, you name it. He always felt his mother was mostly interested in having a new baby to cuddle on a regular basis.

It reached its peak when my husband's parents actually kidnapped one of their grandchildren. Their excuse was that the baby was being abused. Problem was, there were two other children in the household. The mom had passed away, so why not just call the police on their son and petition to get custody of all three? But no, they grabbed the baby and fled across several states and raised him as their own. Hubby's brother was a violent alcoholic at this point, so it is quite possible that he simply didn't care. But it still doesn't justify the kidnapping or the fact that two other innocent children were left in that situation.

Even worse, my husband was only about 11 or 12 when that happened. They essentially abandoned him.

Grandbaby Rabies, indeed.

That is just NUTS!!!

[Miggy]

The Duggar children have to pray thanks to God for the 7 (?) unchangeables of family life. One is their gender (or was that sex?), one is their place in the family and I think one is the number of siblings they have. So Jill has to pray thank you that she is female, that she is number four and that there are nineteen of them. If you grow up with someone making you pray that everyday, it would be pretty hard to turn around and say "Well actually, I don't like being in a big family." (I was amazed when Alyssa Bates came close to saying that.)

The unchangeables are one of Gothards teachings and it's in one of the Duggar books. I'll see if I can find the actual list.

[mebeforee]

The unchangeables are one of Gothards teachings and it's in one of the Duggar books. I'll see if I can find the actual list.

I've never heard about this before, I'd love to know what else is on the list!

[eh02]

I was amazed when Alyssa Bates came close to saying that.

When did Alyssa say that? I must have missed it. I don't want to get too optimistic early on, but I really think a lot of the Bates kids will NOT have jumbo sized families. I could easily see Alyssa having 3-4 in a row and stopping.

The Bates kids know way better than the Duggars how financially difficult it is. If Alyssa is already helping her husband work at a cleaning company for extra funds...well, she just doesn't really strike me as a woman who would want that lifestyle forever. I think she will want nicer things, and nice things cost money that you don't have with 10 children.

A lot of people have been critical of Alyssa for seeming cold or unfriendly, but I think it's kind of nice to see a fundie woman that doesn't have the 24/7 forced smile. I get the feeling Alyssa is pretty savvy and independent compared to some of the others.

[Rescinded and Mended]

That is just NUTS!!!

Indeed. Mr. R and M stayed with his siblings in the family home for a little while longer after that...until one of his brothers burned it down. His parents actually came back and asked if he wanted to go with them into hiding. He refused and went to work for one of his brothers who lived far away. He made his own way into the world at a very young age.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

When did Alyssa say that? I must have missed it. I don't want to get too optimistic early on, but I really think a lot of the Bates kids will NOT have jumbo sized families. I could easily see Alyssa having 3-4 in a row and stopping.

The Bates kids know way better than the Duggars how financially difficult it is. If Alyssa is already helping her husband work at a cleaning company for extra funds...well, she just doesn't really strike me as a woman who would want that lifestyle forever. I think she will want nicer things, and nice things cost money that you don't have with 10 children.

A lot of people have been critical of Alyssa for seeming cold or unfriendly, but I think it's kind of nice to see a fundie woman that doesn't have the 24/7 forced smile. I get the feeling Alyssa is pretty savvy and independent compared to some of the others.

I also don't remember her saying anything close to not liking being one of 19. I think she MIGHT be relieved that she doesn't have to live in chaos every day, and she probably understands her limitations which is why she says she doesn't know how many kids she could actually raise herself; but neither of those things means she doesn't like having 18 brothers and sisters.

[singsingsing]

She's said she doesn't think she could handle 19 kids. That maybe she could handle 8, or 10. I think she's in for a rude awakening.

[Bethella]

I've never heard about this before, I'd love to know what else is on the list!

The Unchangeables

1. Who our parents are
2. Who our siblings are
3. The order in which we are born into our family (oldest, youngest, etc.)
4. Our nationality
5. Whether we're a girl or boy
6. Our mental capacity
7. The time we were born in history
8. Our physical features
9. The natural aging process
10. The date we will die

From Growing Up Duggar p. 8

[Jana814]

She's said she doesn't think she could handle 19 kids. That maybe she could handle 8, or 10. I think she's in for a rude awakening.

Agree!

[roddma]

Anyone with common sense would know there is no possible way for 19 kids to get more attention from parents than two kids. I think it is overly sanctimonious for any of the Duggars to even say that considering they never actually 100% parented the last half of the kids. JIm Bob has never homeshcooled and Michelle no longer homeschools. A parent at home means nothing. If you even spent half an hour with each one daily, thats a chunk out of the day which I doubt would happen.

[formergothardite]

The Unchangeables

1. Who our parents are
2. Who our siblings are
3. The order in which we are born into our family (oldest, youngest, etc.)
4. Our nationality
5. Whether we're a girl or boy
6. Our mental capacity
7. The time we were born in history
8. Our physical features
9. The natural aging process
10. The date we will die

From Growing Up Duggar p. 8

And here is how you can sing it:

[bBvideo 560,340:2pt9ni74]

[/bBvideo]

Nothing says fun like teaching kids to sing a cheerful song that includes that ends with them singing about their deaths.

[txmommyof4]

Ohhhhh my! That song was just horrible. It made me laugh and almost gave me chills at the same time. Alright kids, today we are gonna learn a happy little ditty about death! :dance: (oops, I guess the dance smiley was a bad choice!) :lol:

[LittleOleMe]

And here is how you can sing it:

[bBvideo 560,340:9yyqz21j]

[/bBvideo]

Nothing says fun like teaching kids to sing a cheerful song that includes that ends with them singing about their deaths.

That is fucking creepy. "saying goodbye to this world is saying hello to eternity" .. Maybe it's just me, but having the kids say that kind of stuff and JB telling one of the howlers that grandpa was probably sad for them bc they were here and not in heaven yet while looking at his corpse, is incredibly unhealthy. What happens when a younger child, who doesn't fully understand everything, decides to commit suicide because heaven is better and so-and-so just died and is sad I'm not there so I'm going to meet Jesus bc he's the best. :angry-banghead: It's not like this hasn't happened before. (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ather.html) and this girl wasn't even raised in a crazy religious family where she was taught to sing a happy song about her own death.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

That is fucking creepy. "saying goodbye to this world is saying hello to eternity" .. Maybe it's just me, but having the kids say that kind of stuff and JB telling one of the howlers that grandpa was probably sad for them bc they were here and not in heaven yet while looking at his corpse, is incredibly unhealthy. What happens when a younger child, who doesn't fully understand everything, decides to commit suicide because heaven is better and so-and-so just died and is sad I'm not there so I'm going to meet Jesus bc he's the best. :angry-banghead: It's not like this hasn't happened before. (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ather.html) and this girl wasn't even raised in a crazy religious family where she was taught to sing a happy song about her own death.

I'm sure there's a lot of talking in that cult about how suicide wont get you into heaven. When I was growing up and going to CCD/private school, that's what we were taught; and none of my churches were fundamentalist churches.

[eri]

The Duggar children have to pray thanks to God for the 7 (?) unchangeables of family life. One is their gender (or was that sex?), one is their place in the family and I think one is the number of siblings they have. So Jill has to pray thank you that she is female, that she is number four and that there are nineteen of them. If you grow up with someone making you pray that everyday, it would be pretty hard to turn around and say "Well actually, I don't like being in a big family." (I was amazed when Alyssa Bates came close to saying that.)

The unchangeables are one of Gothards teachings and it's in one of the Duggar books. I'll see if I can find the actual list.

That actually reminds me of some of the Buddhist 'prayers.' (Buddhist prayer = words or poems to appreciate during meditation, not really equivalent to theistic prayer.) A few of them specifically address contentment for gender, family, bless your enemies, etc.

[LittleOleMe]

That actually reminds me of some of the Buddhist 'prayers.' (Buddhist prayer = words or poems to appreciate during meditation, not really equivalent to theistic prayer.) A few of them specifically address contentment for gender, family, bless your enemies, etc.

And that's fine - to extent. But like always, the Duggars/Gothard take everything way too far and turn it into something creepy and disturbing.

[KelseyAnn]

I come from a family of six, and even though that's not even half of what the Duggar's have, I hated it too.

The order went Boy, Boy, Girl, Boy, Girl, Girl.

The Boys, especially the oldest two, got all the attention for being boys and got all the best food while me and the youngest girl scrougned for 'good food.'

I never got any attention at all.

The youngest girl got all the attention because she was the baby,

and the oldest girl got all the attention because she was the first girl.

ALL the boys got attention, too.

Which meant that I was largely ignored.

In such a large family, there really isn't any way NOT to have preferential treatment of certain children.

And much like the Duggars,

the oldest girl got EVERYONE ready for school,

while the bous were catered too.

[19 cats and counting]

I think that part of Josh regrets being one of 19 (well he left the nest before 18 and 19 were born) but another part does not. In the early specials, he happily recites the family's talking points (and moreso than any of the others). Sure he had some hard times, but the Kool Aid is in his system (4 kids in 6 years of marriage).

I'm one of 2. All the traits displayed by Jill last season (golden child, tattle tale, makes everything about her, etc) are my sister. The reason she is my least favorite Duggar girl is because I grew up with a sister like her. It got to the point where she got presents on my birthday because my parents could not handle her fits. We don't get along now that we're in our 30s. IN fact it was only 2.5 years ago that I put her number in my phone (I spoil my nieces with clothes and want pics of them wearing my fashions). I was the MOH at her wedding, but when she asked me I asked her why she chose me and not her best friend (the wedding party was only family). In reality I was the MOH in name only. Her best friend gave the speech, threw the bachelorette party (I wasn't invited), was the official witness to the marriage, etc. All I did was wear clothes I'll never wear again and $150 shoes that gave me blisters.

I never wished to be an only child, but given our opposite personalities, I wish there were 1-2 more of us because I wish I had a sibling I could call a friend. My dad and his youngest brother (12 years apart) are best friends (and have been for most of my lifetime) and it's sad knowing he has something that I will never have.

That said, as much as I don't like the Duggar dorm rooms, it could be worse. There's a hint of personalization there (I saw Jill's map of Nepal hanging over her bed) and I sense that they get SOME individuality. They could be Erika Shupe's kids where they can't have more personal possessions than what fits in a small plastic storage chest drawer.