Lori Talks about Women

[Coconut Flan]

In really not news, Lori talks about women in church:

lorialexander.blogspot.com/2013/08/women-silenced-in-church.html

 

It seemed about time we had a new Lori and Ken thread.

[samurai_sarah]

Oh Lori, thinking things through really isn't your strong point, is it?

Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says.

The law is subject to change, and differs from nation to nation. You could argue OT, but the OT didn't set anything in stone, except the Ten Commandments.

I have heard several women argue against these verses by using the

account after Christ's resurrection when He told the women to

“Do not be afraid. Go and tell my brothers to go to Galilee; there they will see me.†{Matthew 28:10} So they think that it must be alright for women to speak and be leaders in the church if Jesus told them to proclaim His resurrection to the disciples.

For one thing, there was no church when Jesus told the women this. It started later, after He was ascended into heaven. God had Paul teach the people how church meetings were to be conducted. There must have been some chaos in the churches.

There was a church. But you, Lori, won't like the answer. Jesus was kind of specific, when he said that Simon-Peter was the rock he was going to build his church on. Technically that makes the Catholics the" one true church", because Peter was the first bishop of Rome. The chaos came later.

There were divisions. "I am of Apollos." "I am of Paul." "I am of Christ." {I Corinthians 1:12} Paul quickly taught them that there should be no divisions and we worship one Lord. Then he told them they needed to select elders, specifically men, so there would be leaders in the church. These men had to be above reproach and walk blamelessly as an example to others.

{I Timothy 3}

And the main authority was the Holy See in Rome. Catholicism!

The women must have been talking too much in the church which women are prone to do. Have you ever been in a Bible Study with men and women and noticed the women usually dominated the conversation? We definitely like to talk more than most men, therefore, Paul commanded the women not to speak in the church.

Women aren't prone to talk more. You are!

I am not sure how far he wanted us to take this command. I know he doesn't want women in leadership positions over men in the church and teaching them. He is very clear about that. I don't think he meant for women not to sing or teach children or other women. He just wanted to silence a woman's inclination to speak out and speak her mind which would lead to chaos in the church.

If your deity is as good and merciful as you claim, your deity would have no issue with anyone speaking their minds.

This never means that God values women less than men. God is a God of beauty and order and this brings order to the church and gives men honor. It offends me in no way and I don't think it should offend most women who love walking in obedience to God.

Yes, it means that your deity values women less. If your deity silences women's voices, your deity is not listening to half of the Creation! It means that half of your deity's Creation will never be heard, their prayers are useless, and their hopes are futile. Now, tell me again, how your deity values women as much as men!

Lori, if you stand by your interpretations, becoming Catholic would be the logical thing to do.

P.S.: Lori Alexander is a monster.

[jerkit]

This post is old - how did this come up?

Appropriate though since our transitional priest's wife preached today at church :P

[SPHASH]

I went to church this morning. My pastor is a women. It was also the Sunday School Christmas program so Santa Claus made an appearance. And I was an usher (a man's job). Guess we are all going to hell.

[kpmom]

Yes, it means that your deity values women less. If your deity silences women's voices, your deity is not listening to half of the Creation! It means that half of your deity's Creation will never be heard, their prayers are useless, and their hopes are futile. Now, tell me again, how your deity values women as much as men!

It always drives me nuts when fundies claim men and women are completely equal under patriarchy, they just have different roles!

Interestingly, women always come out with the short end of the stick in these roles.

[samurai_sarah]

It always drives me nuts when fundies claim men and women are completely equal under patriarchy, they just have different roles!

Interestingly, women always come out with the short end of the stick in these roles.

I agree with you. It's the old "equal but different" stuff. Funny how that doesn't work out as equality...

P.S.: I didn't make it clear in my initial post. I am not advocating for the Catholic church. I'm an atheist with Catholic roots. That's all.

[reina]

So why is it OK for Lori to assume what GOD meant with a verse but when I post a reply to her blogs expressing my thoughts on what i think it is meant in a particular verse she attacks me with "we can't choose to believe what we want, the Bible is really clear on that"

HYPOCRITE

[Four is Enough]

Hello, PAUL was the one with his knickers in a twist about women, not GOD. She should learn to read.

[salex]

I wonder if Lori realizes a lot of the verses she reveres are considered by many not to really have been written by "the" Paul... but by some anonymous person either named Paul or using "the" Paul's name and changing Paul's message.

huffingtonpost.com/john-dominic-crossan/apostle-paul-letters_b_890387.html

There is also a strong (but not massive) consensus among much of modern scholarship that a further three of those 10 letters were not written by Paul. In other words, we have seven letters certainly from the historical Paul (Romans, 1-2 Corinthians, Galatians, Philippians, 1 Thessalonians, Philemon), three others probably not from him (Ephesians, Colossians, 2 Thessalonians) and a final three certainly not from him (1-2 Timothy, Titus). Those are all, of course, historical conclusions and not dogmatic presumptions.

huffingtonpost.com/john-dominic-crossan/historical-paul-gender_b_921319.html

......This is simply a visual image of that reactionary post-Pauline and anti-Pauline command that "no woman [is] to teach or to have authority over a man; she is to keep silent" (1 Timothy 2:12).

That is not, of course, the view of the historical Paul whose letter to the Christian communities of Rome was delivered -- that is, read and explained -- by a woman named Phoebe, an administrator of a house-church near Corinth (Romans 16:1-2). Neither is it the position of the historical Paul who described the woman Junia as "prominent among the apostles" (Romans 16:7) -- an "apostle" is somebody "sent" by God with authority to found new Christian communities.

[DaffyDill]

The leghumpers commenters are babbling on about head covering being a part of submission in church as well.

Says one:

I think that you are not going to find divorce in a relationship where the wife has her head covered.Unless the woman takes off her head covering, and fights for her independent wishes, that is.

So, keep a doily or hanky on your head and you won't fight with your husband or boyfriend, unless you take it off. Interesting.

This article of Lori's is from over a year ago, too. Is she recycling them because she can't think of anything else to say?

[Rebelwife]

I went to church this morning. My pastor is a women. It was also the Sunday School Christmas program so Santa Claus made an appearance. And I was an usher (a man's job). Guess we are all going to hell.

Forget female priests, female ushers were truly the last frontier in our liberal church. We had a female assoc. Rector and the head of the whole national church was a woman before we had a single female usher. The current ushers, whose average age is about 267.4 years old, had a hard time with the idea in the beginning, but they seem to have gotten over it. :lol:

[browncoatslytherin]

Women aren't prone to talk more. You are!

lol in most churches i've been in, the men are the ones with the reputations for standing around talking forever after services :lol:

[jerkit]

This post is old - how did this come up?

Quoting myself because I still want to know. Coconut Flan, were just down the Lori rabbit hole or did you see this posted somewhere?

[FundieFarmer]

Even as someone who comes from a very conservative denomination that does not allow for women to be ordained as church-wide ministers, Lori's interpretation is still wrong. There is a context for why the Pauline letters include that verse, among others. Even 5 minutes in a study Bible's footnotes would tell her that. I'll spare y'all the drawn out theories (unless you want to hear them)...but Lori, where are you getting this nonsense!?

[Coconut Flan]

My apologies. We were over 20 pages on the cumulative Lori/Ken thread so I wanted to begin another thread. I typed in always learning and thought it would take me to the top of the blog/most current entry. I was trying to get out of town so didn't check the date. Please carry on with current Lori anti-woman sentiment.