Jahi McMath back in the news - Part 2

[Stynjen]

Her mother is seeking a court ordered reversal of the brain death declaration.

 

http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Ja ... 70271.html

[Four is Enough]

From the sounds of this, this girl should have been in the ground months ago. How horrible for the family. ETA: I mean the family who can accept the brain death concept, whether or not the heart is still beating.

[browncoatslytherin]

we're talking about it here...

viewtopic.php?f=81&t=20535&start=880

but the thread is 45 pages long. i wonder if this could be designated as the new thread?

[keen23]

This continues from the thread here: viewtopic.php?f=81&t=20535

The family has recently requested that the death certificate be rescinded.

[cindyluvs24]

Last published news said that she was at St Peters in New Brunswick. My local news (central NJ) says that she and the family are in a private home. Can people be kept on ventilators and feeding machines at home?

[Childless]

I hope California does the right thing and refuses to rescind the death certificate. The poor child is gone. The family needs to show her some respect and bury her.

[Toothfairy]

Way to add salt to an already open wound. Where's the proof. I want proof pictures not just of feet and nails. I want to see a video. No way they're not going to show something to the media if they make these claims. It's a way to make money since they're so hungry for it.

[littlemommy]

Here are the videos they released:

blog.sfgate.com/stew/2014/10/03/jahi-mcmath-videos-released/

[Mitz_]

Here are the videos they released:

blog.sfgate.com/stew/2014/10/03/jahi-mcmath-videos-released/

My husband , an M.D., say's that this is an image of a severely atrophied brain. This means that the brain has shrunken and hardened.

It isn't possible to tell from this image which parts of this brain, if any, might have activity.

The videos are involuntary movements .

[GiGi_41]

Any one else notice the big red text that says "not for medical use"

[Blahblah]

I watched the videos. Her foot spasmed upwards. If someone asks you to move your foot, this is not how you would respond. A large jerk of the foot upwards is a very unnatural movement.

And with the hand movement it looked to me as though her body spasmed under the blanket thus causing har arm and hand to move, as opposed to her moving her hand consciously. And clearly there is no muscle tone given the way that her hand just flopped down and whatever was lodged in it (I refuse to say "holding" ) just fell out of it.

And yes to Mitz_ that does not look like a functional brain - it appears shrunken with pockets between the brain and the skull as well as void areas in the middle.

[salex]

I saw the few seconds of video. If you are in charge of editing a video, you can stand around a twitching body and say "move your foot" for as long as you want, and eventually the foot will twitch and you can yell victory. Same with the hand.

Did anyone else notice that Jahi's toes look pretty iffy. If they are going to get her declared alive so they can get more than Uncle Sealey's chump change, they'd better hurry, because I suspect as soon as they are in the clear on that she'll, very sadly for them all, die...

[mirele]

I shamelessly stole this from the Wikipedia article on Terri Schiavo.

The picture on the left is a normal brain. The picture on the right is Schiavo's brain in 2002, 12 years after her accident. If you compare this to the picture in GiGi_41's post, you can tell that Jahi McMath's brain is not normal. And it's worth noting that McMath's brain has voids in it less than a year after the aftermath of the surgery which led to her death.

These people anger me so much, I can barely contain myself. Let this girl go, in the name of whatever god you worship. She's dead.

More on Terri Schiavo:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terri_Schiavo_case

[Stephanie66]

Ten years ago, there is no way a judge would rule to reverse a death certificate. Now, however, I don't know. I hope that there is no way the judge will reverse, but ya never know anymore. If a two celled embryo can be considered fully human, then I guess Jahi McMath could be, too.

[ADoyle90815]

I shamelessly stole this from the Wikipedia article on Terri Schiavo.

The picture on the left is a normal brain. The picture on the right is Schiavo's brain in 2002, 12 years after her accident. If you compare this to the picture in GiGi_41's post, you can tell that Jahi McMath's brain is not normal. And it's worth noting that McMath's brain has voids in it less than a year after the aftermath of the surgery which led to her death.

These people anger me so much, I can barely contain myself. Let this girl go, in the name of whatever god you worship. She's dead.

More on Terri Schiavo:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terri_Schiavo_case

I agree, at first I felt sorry for Jahi's family, but now it's obvious that they're only in it for the money they can get from various lawsuits and disability claims.

[Mitz_]

I agree, at first I felt sorry for Jahi's family, but now it's obvious that they're only in it for the money they can get from various lawsuits and disability claims.

Here is a pretty good recent link:

http://sprocket-trials.blogspot.mx/2014 ... again.html

The first post in the comment section is a medical interpretation of the MRI that Dolan presented. It has a lot of medical terminology that most of us won't understand but my husband translated it for me. I won't attempt to repeat what he told me but what it means is that the owner of the brain on the MRI doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell of ever having any sort of life or recovery.

Dolan has admitted that the brain is severely damaged and he isn't even trying to prove that Jahi has any chance to actually live a life, he is just arguing that the brain death diagnosis is not correct. They know very well that there is no "hope" for Jahi...it would take even more than if " Maybe God will spark her brain awake" , she would need a whole new brain.

It IS all about money, there is nothing for Jahi in this.

[Toothfairy]

I wonder why the lawyer is speaking on this and not a legitimate doctor. No one finds it strange that the lawyer is the only one making the statements and no doctor or neurologist have confirmed the movement voluntary or involuntary.

[CallmeChaCha]

I wonder why the lawyer is speaking on this and not a legitimate doctor. No one finds it strange that the lawyer is the only one making the statements and no doctor or neurologist have confirmed the movement voluntary or involuntary.

Maybe they're waiting until the trial to bring out all their 'experts'?

[browncoatslytherin]

Here is a pretty good recent link:

http://sprocket-trials.blogspot.mx/2014 ... again.html

The first post in the comment section is a medical interpretation of the MRI that Dolan presented. It has a lot of medical terminology that most of us won't understand but my husband translated it for me. I won't attempt to repeat what he told me but what it means is that the owner of the brain on the MRI doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell of ever having any sort of life or recovery.

Dolan has admitted that the brain is severely damaged and he isn't even trying to prove that Jahi has any chance to actually live a life, he is just arguing that the brain death diagnosis is not correct. They know very well that there is no "hope" for Jahi...it would take even more than if " Maybe God will spark her brain awake" , she would need a whole new brain.

It IS all about money, there is nothing for Jahi in this.

here is the interpretation posted in the comments:

it's markedly abnormal. There's significant loss of gray-white differentiation in the cerebral cortex; the straight sinus in the tentorium cerebellus is widely dilated, as are the lateral ventricles; the cerebellum itself appears amorphous, with no visible sulci; the sella turcica appears to be obliterated as has the pons; there's an increased amount of CSF in the fourth ventricle; there is one large and four smaller infarcted areas near the corpus callosum (actually, I don't even see a corpus callosum) and within the lateral ventricles. All the extra fluid represents areas of necrosis where tissue has been lysed and resorbed.

oh yeah, if that is your brain, you are fucked. i'm not a clinician, but as someone in the medical field who handles records and even specifically radiology records for a time...this is death. can't tell the difference between gray and white matter? cerebellum is amorphous? can't see any sulci? necrosis (aka tissue death)? cerebrospinal fluid (csf) leaking into the brain area? oh yeah. and (i've personally found) especially when a clinician uses terms such as "obliterated" in professional, medical circumstances, that's when you know shit's gotten serious.

as far as the "brain death" diagnosis not being "correct" i have no idea how he will try to argue this. i'm extremely curious about the "experts" he is planning on having testify and how much said experts really are experts and how much they have actually interacted with jahi, if they even have at all. the best they can probably hope to do is confuse the hell out of anyone.

[Blahblah]

I don't know how the legal system works over there (Aussie here). Who would have to foot the bill for the lawyers to oppose this? Is that a tax payer thing because it was a judge who ruled brain death? Or the poor hospital where she died in the first place?

And if by some bizarre twist they are successful, who pays for her to be hooked up to machines forever? The implications for medical facilities are horrific - the system would potentially be clogged up with dead people hooked up to machines forever because of the risk of another McMath case. Who would fund that? How would the U.S. as a country resource that? Beds, nurses, equipment, fluids, nutrients.... It's mind boggling.

And what if a family wanted to remove their loved one from the machines? Would you get anti-euthanasia protesters running all over the place?

[Mitz_]

I don't know how the legal system works over there (Aussie here). Who would have to foot the bill for the lawyers to oppose this? Is that a tax payer thing because it was a judge who ruled brain death? Or the poor hospital where she died in the first place?

And if by some bizarre twist they are successful, who pays for her to be hooked up to machines forever? The implications for medical facilities are horrific - the system would potentially be clogged up with dead people hooked up to machines forever because of the risk of another McMath case. Who would fund that? How would the U.S. as a country resource that? Beds, nurses, equipment, fluids, nutrients.... It's mind boggling.

And what if a family wanted to remove their loved one from the machines? Would you get anti-euthanasia protesters running all over the place?

Doctors declared her brain dead, the court or the judge just upheld that decision (yes, a taxpayer thing). It kind of looks like the court they filed in thinks it doesn't even have jurisdiction so who knows what will happen tomorrow.

If they successfully had her declared " alive" Jahi could ride that hospital bed forever on the taxpayers dime. She would get other benefits as well.

It won't happen.

People can remove their loved ones from life support, provided criteria is met, with no problem. It isn't considered euthanasia for people who can't breathe on their own. Every now and then family members will oppose each other and then public will take sides and courts get involved but unless someone is fighting against it, disconnection from life support happens quietly.

The hospital hasn't even been sued yet. It could be that they have no liability at all in the Mcmath case. Just because someone died or whatever after surgery doesn't mean that the hospital did anything wrong.

[bionicmlle]

I really don't think this will get overturned, but if it does, I'd like to open a care center for people with devastating brain injuries. Talk about raking in [dirty] money....

As for the lawsuit coming to the hospital.... Don't worry, it's coming. The family doesn't have much to sue over right now. They can't file wrongful death because then they acknowledge she is dead. They are wrangling to get her back on state-paid care (where-ever that is, I suspect they will try in CA first, then try other places...) then sue the hospital for damages and to pay the bills. Currently there are no "bills" to pay... she is dead and being supported by donations. This "declare her alive" thing is just a set-up for the big show of a lawsuit.

[Mitz_]

So, I listened to the entire press conference while I was cooking dinner last night, don't attempt it unless you have some time to kill or you are doing something productive at the same time because it's a mess. Poor uncle Omari stood there looking important the whole time but didn't get in a single word. One of the Doctors had such a heavy accent, I couldn't understand a word he said. But these are the doctors that did the testing on Jahi and they will provide their professional opinion at the hearing.

The first thing Dolan said was " now these are doctors that believe in brain death" but the deal on these Dr.s is that they are researchers with a keen interest in the brain and it's ability to regenerate. They don't really agree with the entire concept of brain death and they believe that the human brain can regenerate the way it can in some animals. Think Dr. Frankenstein, they are working on reanimation...bringing people back to life.

So they get very excited when a case like Jahi Mcmath comes along, and evidently they do come along now and then but Jahi is a very interesting test subject for them because her brain can still be defined on an MRI, it didn't liquefy and they think she is producing some hormones which is pretty major for this situation. They don't try to kid you into thinking that Jahi is going to be a functioning person one day or anything like that they are just very fired up about what their findings indicate the brain is capable of. Now they do say that Jahi is very much alive just because they believe that her brain is not dead. They talk briefly about a woman they worked with using electrical stimulation who progressed from pretty much the shape Jahi is in to opening her eyes and staring into space or something like that...like it was a very exciting accomplishment or something. They didn't say what happened to her but gave the impression that it was past tense. Anyway this is the sort of thing that gets them fired up. It is definitely not mainstream stuff and Jahi's mom doesn't seem to mind pimping her out for research so we will see what happens.

[Mitz_]

Dolan wants the hearing postponed because the court appointed expert doesn't agree with the findings:

http://m.ksbw.com/news/expert-rejects-d ... -10-months

[DGayle]

I don't know how the legal system works over there (Aussie here). Who would have to foot the bill for the lawyers to oppose this? Is that a tax payer thing because it was a judge who ruled brain death? Or the poor hospital where she died in the first place?

And if by some bizarre twist they are successful, who pays for her to be hooked up to machines forever? The implications for medical facilities are horrific - the system would potentially be clogged up with dead people hooked up to machines forever because of the risk of another McMath case. Who would fund that? How would the U.S. as a country resource that? Beds, nurses, equipment, fluids, nutrients.... It's mind boggling.

And what if a family wanted to remove their loved one from the machines? Would you get anti-euthanasia protesters running all over the place?

The taxayers would fund all of this Potentially decades and untold millions of dollars that could be going to medical care for people who are alive, or trying to find cancer cures, or even trying to find ways to preserve the brain and protect it against damage when something like this happens. But nope, they want to keep a dead person on the public dime, which would of course mean getting disability money and other money for her.

It would take MORE than 4 full-time nurses to attend to this one girl. That's at least a couple grand in nurses a year. Hospital rooms are easily $2k a day, just to be there. $730,000 for a year. We're looking at a cool mil without adding in any treatment at all. Private facilities cost more than public hospitals.

If a judge overturns her death, the precedent will bankrupt California. Every person who is brain dead could stay on life support forever, and if the family can receive disability cash for it, a lot of people would suddenly decide to keep dead people around.