Jasmine Baucham is Engaged!

[FoxyMoxie]

I didn't expect any congratulations for Lourdes' marriage. They wouldn't want to advertise the DPIAR situation, Lourdes and her husband were outspoken about criticizing patriarchy, and it seemed the wedding was fairly rushed and maybe not a church ceremony (i.e., no pretty pictures to post).

However Jasmine did everything "right." Courtship, no dating. Godly young man who got to know her father and became parents-approved. White wedding with father giving a blessing and (I'm sure) lots of talk of purity. So the lack of a congratulation on this one does raise an eyebrow. To me it's either that a) the Botkins really are jealous (or embarassed) or b) The women have actually moved significantly away from their views in RofD, and don't want to advertise it anymore.

Or c) the Botkins are secretly racist :shhh:

I'm not meaning to accuse, I'm just curious as to whether there was ever a racist element to VF/the Botkinettes. Given DPIAR's choice of events for dressing up and glorification of imperialism, I wouldn't be surprised if there was a racist element to his followers.

[thoughtful]

I think the VF crowd tried hard to look inclusive, and Dougie certainly went out of his way to find "look -- I love little brown children" photo ops:

How any of them really felt is anybody's guess.

I'm more curious about whether the Phillips family was invited to this wedding, or sent congratulations, than I am about the Botkins. Wasn't Voddie involved with VF?

[justlurking]

While I don't particularly care for Jasmine's choice of wedding dress or bridesmaids dresses (hate floral print :ew: )the look very much matches what I gather to be her personality--at least based upon some of the things she has written about herself online--and for that I think it's cute. If I were her though I'd be upset about the shoes her husband chose to wear, especially for their pictures. I don't know what it is with fundies not wearing a pair of nice dress shoes for weddings...

I know someone mentioned that the theme was "Great Gatsby", but it doesn't look that way to me. The photographer said something about fairies, and knowing Jasmine's literary interests I'm wondering if the theme is Shakespearean.

[hoipolloi]

I think the VF crowd tried hard to look inclusive, and Dougie certainly went out of his way to find "look -- I love little brown children" photo ops:

How any of them really felt is anybody's guess.

I'm more curious about whether the Phillips family was invited to this wedding, or sent congratulations, than I am about the Botkins. Wasn't Voddie involved with VF?

No indication that any Phillips was there.

Re: Voddie & his ties to VF. Voddie was VERY involved with VF for a few years, appearing at various events & featured in Doug's Blog at least several times a year. IIRC, he sort of dropped out of sight at least a year before the 2013 cascade of debacles. Could be he saw how wrong so much of it was & backed away (but of course wasn't manly enough to say anything publicly) or it could be he figured he could make as much if not more $$$ peddling the fundie shite on his own rather than relying on VF marketing shticks.

Re: wedding guests. Mercy Morecraft was there but as friend to Jasmine - no sign of her parents.

Re: wedding. Thought that the wedding dress was lovely and the bridesmaids' dresses were great. So nice to see ALL of the women wearing things that flatter them individually and look comfortable as well instead of the usual dreck with a modesty panel shoved into the front.

[nausicaa]

Or c) the Botkins are secretly racist :shhh:

I'm not meaning to accuse, I'm just curious as to whether there was ever a racist element to VF/the Botkinettes. Given DPIAR's choice of events for dressing up and glorification of imperialism, I wouldn't be surprised if there was a racist element to his followers.

Oh, I definitely think there's enough racism floating around the movement, but do you think the Botkins would do anything as blatantly racist as not giving an update about one of their movie's stars just because she's black? After all, if they were of the "we just want to pretend black people don't exist" school of thought, they wouldn't have included her in the doc in the first place. She did everything by the book and she is the perfect example for them to use if they want to argue that their SAHD movement isn't just for wealthy white women (which it seemed they were going for by including Lourdes and Jasmine in the documentary). Their silence really doesn't make sense to me.

Also, I am this close to buying a copy of Return of the Daughters off of Amazon. It goes in my shopping basket every few months. Someone talk me out of this.

[uber frau]

See if you can get it through an interlibrary loan first. I know someone else (MJB)? ) did a few years ago and posted a review.

[danvillebelle]

<<>>

I still have my copy buried in a box somewhere. I will be more than happy to send it to you, pm me with your address. I don't need it back, feel free to pass it on (or ritually burn it, or whatever you might think of...) :whistle:

[MamaJunebug]

Nausicaa, buy it, I say. It's important that we have a record that it actually existed. I'm sure its producers would love nothing more than to see it go away.

My library in Mid-America was able to get it through interlibrary loan from California, if I remember correctly. I remember that there was not one scene in there of a daughter at home that was presented in standard time. Every shot of daughters interacting with their sisters or with their fathers – – mothers were conspicuously absent – – was in slow motion. I mean excruciatingly slow motion.

I remember wondering if part of the reason for that was to make it all look dreamy and perfect. It did nothing of the sort for me, instead, it gave a decided sense of unease. It was similar to when a handsome young man was convicted of brutally murdering his beautiful young wife, and every time local news showed the perp walk of the convicted creep, they put him in slow motion. I remember equating that with the "Daughters" movie treatment of all its subjects.

Were the news producers trying to indicate that it was a bad dream for the murderer?, I wondered when I saw the news coverage. Then, as I watched the "Daughters" movie, I likewise wondered, "Were they trying to show that staying at home was a beautiful dream for the daughters?"

I've no idea of the legal ramifications of it, but it idea occurs that it would be pretty powerful to use excerpts from "Daughters" showing Lourdes and superimposing graphics to indicate that she was the victim of her father's highly esteemed employer, the man to whom her father sent her in lieu of "having his own vision" for her to support.

[Marian the Librarian]

I've just checked the "store" section on the Botkins' Western Conservatory website, and lo and behold, "The Return of the Daughters" is nowhere to be had. And I'll bet they're wishing they could recall every copy ever sold. So, I'm seconding MJB's advice to buy those used copies languishing out there on Amazon/eBay/wherever. Get 'em while they're hot!

I've watched it twice, and transcribed and posted portions of it here on FJ. It is decidedly creepy: the Vaseline-lensed, soft-focus slo-mo, the syrupy score, the glazed eyes and robotic delivery of the Botkinettes. And then there are the extras - extensive interviews of Peter and Kelly BRADRICK! (did you know Kelly's father, Scott, fell in love with Peter before she did??), and DougPhillipsIsATool himself, going on at great length about how the wimminfolk need to know their place, and keep to it, because Jesus.

Yep - it should be Exhibit A, if and when Lourdes and Dougie ever have their day in court.

[hoipolloi]

Return of the Daughters is still available on Ebay although not in as large a quantity as it was even a month or two ago - maybe the Botkins have been buying up the copies? :lol:

Agree with all here who say this piece of patriarchal shite needs to be kept front and center, particularly since none of the featured interviewees (excepting Lourdes, of course) have ever publicly renounced what ROTD promotes and, by association, what they have endorsed.

[nausicaa]

<<>>

I still have my copy buried in a box somewhere. I will be more than happy to send it to you, pm me with your address. I don't need it back, feel free to pass it on (or ritually burn it, or whatever you might think of...) :whistle:

Oh thanks Danvillebelle! That's really sweet, but alas shortly after my last post I broke down and just bought it off amazon. It was $8.45 including shipping from a used book store in Washington state. I'll let everyone know my impression after I get through it. (I'm thinking I'll need wine and M&Ms? Lots of wine.)

[justlurking]

Jasmine's husband Phillip has posted a 3 minute video on his personal blog which highlights scenes from their wedding day. You can watch it here: phillipmholmes.com/our-wedding-video-is-here/

I'm surprised to see that Jasmine did the first kiss during the ceremony, as I remember her previously stating that if she were to get married she would probably want to do it privately (like what Jessa ended up doing).

[naatashamaru]

i really like her reception dress its cute and goes much better with her necklace...