Staying Pregnant Out of Obligation

[fun2beme]

You can have a hysterectomy as a Catholic.

A tubal is not permissible.

Two of my friends have had them, and they were both for medical reasons brought on by pregnancies.

I thought the Church was OK with hysterectomies for medical reasons but not birth control? In her case, I took it that she was doing it for the latter but maybe I misunderstood.

[slickcat79]

I read the post and comments last night and as of then she seemed to be waving red flags of needing mental health care, and yet NO ONE suggested that for her. Another interesting thing to me was that someone suggested adoption and at least one person flipped out at that suggestion. Given that adoption's portrayed as the happy-frappy alternative to abortion, and that many women who choose abortions have kids already . . . seems that person may need to put their money where their mouth is.

I agree that flipping out over the idea of adoption isn't really consistent with a "pro-life" ideology, but adoption was probably a bad suggestion because it wouldn't solve this woman's problems. I don't get the impression that she doesn't want another child, she just doesn't want another pregnancy. I just hope she's able to get some real help before the baby is born, because potential PPD on top of serious physical/emotional distress could be a recipe for disaster.

I also think it would be smart to look into a scheduled c-section and have them perform the hysterectomy while she's already in there. It's been over 2 years since her last baby...it's actually surprising that she hasn't been pregnant before now. It makes me kind of sad/angry that she believes there is no acceptable way to stop getting pregnant than to have something as drastic as a hysterectomy. Her god sounds like a right bastard.

I called the doctor's office two weeks ago to schedule my first prenatal appointment, and the doctor caled me back horrified. I had a hysterectomy scheduled...what was I thinking? And the pressure began for termination. And that's the irony, isn't it? I will spend the rest of this pregnancy fighting for the life of the baby that I never wanted to pregnant with.

Riiiight. Well, she may not be projecting the happy-happy joy-joy image, but she certainly has Pro-life Martyr down pat :shrug:

[Rescinded and Mended]

As someone who was raised Catholic, the idea that a woman cannot have a tubal ligation to avoid unwanted pregnancy and must instead choose to have a full hysterectomy strikes me as completely ridiculous and inappropriate.

A hysterectomy is far more invasive, requires more recovery time, and can seriously affect a woman's libido in comparison to a tubal ligation.

It's so nice that, once again, the Patriarchy has stepped in and decided what's best for the health of a woman and the choices she makes regarding her own body. :roll:

Also agree with others that she is definitely in need of a good support system. I hope she gets the help that she needs.

[FakePigtails]

I thought the Church was OK with hysterectomies for medical reasons but not birth control? In her case, I took it that she was doing it for the latter but maybe I misunderstood.

That's the case. Procedures that would prevent pregnancy are only permissible if done for a medical reason. That includes taking the pill, or having ovaries removed or a full hysterectomy. The primary purpose of the intervention MUST be medical - diseased organ, hormone problems, etc. with the pregnancy prevention as only a secondary effect.

Given that, I was surprised at her planning a hysterectomy. Though she may have been told by a priest that after so many pregnancies her uterus was essentially diseased. I think I've heard of priests giving that "out" when women are told their uterine walls are paper-thin.

[Coconut Flan]

I'm going with there was a reason beyond just no more pregnancies if the OB freaked out about and brought up termination. There is probably a health risk to her with another pregnancy.

[2xx1xy1JD]

This is better than the pro-life people who've never had their ideology challenged with a pregnancy they desperately wished wasn't happening. She's in that position now, and she's holding firm, even though she's going to be hearing from the fundies how she's wrong for not wanting this baby and hearing from pro-choice people that her life is sad, pathetic, and she should go against her beliefs and abort. I hope she's getting support from someone who won't judge her.

At least this is one example of someone applying their pro-life beliefs to their OWN actions and struggles, instead of just telling others what to do.

That said, I hope she'll have support and someone keeping an eye out for possible post-partum depression.

[singsingsing]

I can totally understand being pro-life and choosing to stay pregnant even though it's the last thing you ever wanted. I get that. What I don't get at all is being so desperate to not get pregnant again that you're willing to have a hysterectomy, but NOT willing to a) use birth control or b) abstain from sex until the procedure. I feel for her, but if the idea of getting pregnant again was so abhorrent to her, WTF was she thinking?

[slickcat79]

I read back to some old blog entries, trying to figure out what was traumatic about her last daughter's birth...and I can't find anything. I mean, it sounds like she was in labor/false labor off and on for a couple of days, and got really hormonal. She also has some griping entries about weight gain and hip pain and other random things that make pregnancy really unpleasant, but nothing out of the ordinary. Seriously, if a normal pregnancy causes this much distress, why go through it over and over and over? This is why people use birth control. IDK, maybe I'm missing something.

I don't mean to disregard her emotions, because I know what she feels is real, and that depression/anxiety have real consequences. But I'm not surprised that it was Abigail who linked to her blog. They may be 2 peas in the same narcisistic pod :think:

I'm going with there was a reason beyond just no more pregnancies if the OB freaked out about and brought up termination. There is probably a health risk to her with another pregnancy.

Whenever a prolife person claims that someone (especially a doctor) told them they should terminate, I always take it with a huge grain of salt. They seem to translate the suggestion that termination is an option to "OMG THEY WANT ME TO ABORT!!11!1"

[polecat]

She's entitled to make any choice that she believes is right for her. I only hope that she gets help because it truly sounds as though she's struggling with serious depression that is undoubtedly worsened by the hormones coursing through her system right now. There are certainly treatment options that are considered safe and effective during pregnancy.

[blackkatya]

I would guess the fact that she was even able to get a hysterectomy scheduled indicates some other serious health problems. My mom had a hysterectomy at the age of 46 last December following a lot of issues (she hadn't even been pregnant in 20 years), and had to exhaust other options before she could get the surgery.

Granted, every doc is different, but I have a hard time believing any would agree to a major surgery like that strictly for contraceptive reasons.

[2xx1xy1JD]

I went back and read the entry, and a bit of some other ones.

Yes, it is highly personal information that she's putting out there and baby-to-be may have feelings about that one day....but I am supportive of the idea of women having space to be able to vent, to be honest about their fears and struggles, and to be real about how they are feeling.

There needs to be a place for that in the dialogue.

I also liked this post of hers:

http://shovedtothem.blogspot.ca/2012/01 ... doing.html

It goes along with my belief that "life" and "choice" are not opposites, that life does not end at birth and that one can support life without opposing women having autonomy over their bodies.

[RosyDaisy]

I don't think what Abigail is feeling is uncommon for a lot (not all) of women in her situation. Maybe, just maybe this experience will make her and her daughters realize that they do indeed have a choice and that Christianity isn't a religion of strict rules.

[Coconut Flan]

Yes, I don't know of any OBs who schedule hysterectomies because a woman wants one. They have to have a medical justification and birth control isn't an acceptable one. My mother was put through the same thing of trying a, b, and c before finally getting a hysterectomy.

[GeoBQn]

I can totally understand being pro-life and choosing to stay pregnant even though it's the last thing you ever wanted. I get that. What I don't get at all is being so desperate to not get pregnant again that you're willing to have a hysterectomy, but NOT willing to a) use birth control or b) abstain from sex until the procedure. I feel for her, but if the idea of getting pregnant again was so abhorrent to her, WTF was she thinking?

She was using NFP, though she also said she was using it diligently when she got pregnant the last time.

I can understand freaking out over the offer of adoption because the (anonymous) commenter was offering to adopt the baby himself. How would anybody ever think that was an appropriate thing to do?

[Black Aliss]

I will spend the rest of this pregnancy fighting for the life of the baby that I never wanted to pregnant with.

And that's what it means to be Pro-Life.

Because sometimes Pro-Life means sobbing on your kitchen floor and begging God for the test to be wrong, and wishing with everything in you to be un-pregnant. It means crying yourself to sleep at night in fear and frustration...and anger. Goodness yes, the anger.

No, actually, that's what it means to be pro-choice. To have the option to terminate an unwanted and possibly dangerous pregnancy and to choose whether to carry the baby to term or to abort. She has made that choice for herself but she would deny other women to make that choice for themselves.

[nausicaa]

I would hope this isn't true. After all, the point of being pro-choice is that the woman gets to choose what she does with her body. I also hope she's getting professional help as the outcome could be tragic.

I am pro-choice, and take the "choice" part of that seriously. I am not pushing an agenda. I have absolutely no say over other women's personal health decisions and whether a woman chooses to keep or terminate a pregnancy and I do not judge her one way or the other.

I have been tested on this, when my brother had a drunken one night stand and the woman became pregnant after taking the morning after pill. The two of them did not get along, she lived in another state, my brother had a burgeoning and demanding career making visitations difficult, and she did not have a job. She did not feel that abortion was right and I never, ever once questioned her or her motives. Not my body, so not my choice to make.

(Asde: we all love my nephew to bits )

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

I wouldn't go so far as to say she's clinically depressed. She is depressed, yes, but she's depressed due to a situation she feels helpless in. She has convictions that are hindering her happiness. While its true that you choose your convictions, it's not always easy to stick to them or change them. And doing either could be quite traumatic for a person. Plus, she's pregnant. Pregnancy does fucked up things to your emotions. If you're upset by something, pregnancy hormones are going to do anything but make it better.

The fact is, she's stuck in a hard place. She wants to stay true to what she believes is right, but she's also feeling like she's being betrayed by her god. I mean if you do everything you're supposed to do to avoid getting pregnant because of health reasons and you still end up pregnant, you're not going to be happy about it. Especially if you believe its "god's will."

[Arete]

I suspect that this pregnancy is particularly dangerous for her physically. You can't get a hysterectomy approved for birth control. Her life may be on the line trying to carry to term.

She did not do everything she could not to get pregnant. She was playing Vatican Roulette using NFP, that has a far greater failure rate than condoms, much less hormonal birth control. That is just playing with fire. If she had wanted to guard her health and still remain within Catholic teaching, she should have gone with abstinence until the surgery.

[Patsy]

I wanted to chime in with a "ditto" on punkcat's observation. My family history is not identical, but the key points - an unplanned, unwelcome pregnancy and my parents' honesty about that - are the same. There are things I regret about my parents choices, but their honesty about that situation is not one of them.

Edited because - grammar!

I feel similarly. My parents are dedicated to having positive relationships with me now, and that's what matters to me. Facts from back in the past don't influence my feelings of self-worth, and I prefer knowing the truth.

[bananacat]

This is better than the pro-life people who've never had their ideology challenged with a pregnancy they desperately wished wasn't happening. She's in that position now, and she's holding firm, even though she's going to be hearing from the fundies how she's wrong for not wanting this baby and hearing from pro-choice people that her life is sad, pathetic, and she should go against her beliefs and abort. I hope she's getting support from someone who won't judge her.

She's not better though. She's using this pregnancy as a prop for her beliefs. I hope that she can recover from this and really give this child a normal, loving home. But if she's feeling this resentment and it continues, how is that good for anyone? How is that good for a future child or for the current children? And if she had a traumatic experience last time, is she in danger now? If she has post-partum depression after this birth, could she do something drastic? This seems like the perfect set-up for something bad to happen. Hypocrisy is far better than hating a child but using them as a prop, or of dying in childbirth and leaving 7 or 8 children without a mother. I guess I'm just pragmatic, but some things are worse than hypocrisy, and this could turn out to be one of them. I hope I'm wrong and that everything turns out ok and that she gets to have a hysterectomy after this birth.

[scc12]

If her life or health are at stake,I don't see how anyone could blame her for choosing to end the pregnancy.Or how she could even blame herself.It's really sad.

I would think if she wasn't far along,they could've went ahead and done the hyst.anyway,all in one procedure.

[scc12]

I think the term is Situational Depression,not Clinical,which I think can occur with no outward reason (for Clinical).

[GeoBQn]

She lost the pregnancy.

shovedtothem.blogspot.com/2014/03/lost.html

[ILoveJellybeans]

That's so sad. She must feel awful after being so upset over being pregnant and not wanting another baby. I hope she realises that it isn't her fault.

[bea]

I hope she gets help. I mean, okay, not pregnant anymore,but still REALLY CLEARLY in need of some help. You can still get PPD without a live baby! I did!

I also hope hubby can keep it in his pants until she gets her hysterectomy.