Lori - V-Day Causes Divorce - Now With Moar Ken! Part 2

[formergothardite]

Thank you for finally answering.

~In response to the comment that Lori gives advice without knowing the whole story you said this:

Working in that and it may take time to see any real changes,

This sounds like you agree with me, she is giving out advice without knowing the whole story and this is not a good idea, but either she can't see this or she is letting pride get in her way. If she cannot see that it is a horrible idea to give blanket advice without knowing the whole story then I question why we should think she would be a wise mentor. If she is letting pride get in the way of her being able to correct her past mistakes, then that also means that she isn't qualified to be a mentor.

~In response to her negative bias:

Her negative bias comes out of her own life and the life of many she has mentored. Do you know how many timers IO have heard from a woman at work, "Well you just don't know how nasty women can be" or other put downs on women vs. how generally easy going men are in the work place? You don't want the negative bias, but my question to you is does what Lori is saying actually exist in marriages and how many treat their husbands? One often cannot give the cure apart from speaking frankly about the problem to create the awareness necessary for change

First of all, don't you think a wise mentor would try to approach a situation without a bias and be aware of their biases so that they can do their best to not allow it to cloud their judgment? Lori does not even appear to attempt to do that. Yes, sometimes the marriage problems stem from the wife's attitude, but not always. I'm not going to deny that Lori's advice will help some, but when she ALWAYS assumes that the woman is to blame because she is biased to think that way, then she is letting it cloud her judgment. She needs to try and approach each situation as bias free as possible and give advice that is tailored to that situation. Submission is not the cure all that she treats as.

~In response to Lori assuming things:

You respond that the woman was fed up with her man and had any or little grace left for him. Yes she was fed up with him, BUT that does not mean that she has little grace left for him. It means nothing but that she is fed up with his behavior. As a wife who has been in a similar situation where I was fed up with how my husband was treating me, the kids and himself, I can say that I did have grace, love, compassion and respect for him during this time. And submission would not have helped. Telling him to leave and come back when he was ready to work on our marriage did.

This is what Lori assumes:

After the warm, fuzzy feelings wore off, she probably began focusing on his faults instead of his good qualities. She doesn't know this. She is letting her bias cloud her judgment. Is it possible, yes, it is also equally possible that she has been trying to focus on his good qualities. Pointing out a person's mistakes does not mean that they are focusing on them.

She began having contempt for him instead of respect Also just an assumption. I read no contempt in the woman's question. I read desperation, sadness, frustration, but contempt, no.

Thus, the vicious ugly cycle begins and the marriage goes downhill. She shows him contempt and they both begin treating each other with contempt, instead of with gentleness and forgiveness.

Lori has no idea if this is what happened. This is not what happened in my marriage, I can assure you. Is it possible, yes, but it is also possible that it isn't true. Making assumptions when giving advice is never a good idea. Give advice on the facts presented before her, don't assume the woman has not been submissive, don't assume that the woman has been selfish, don't assume that she has shown him contempt. Lori doesn't know if this is like my marriage where a "Leave until you are ready to straighten your life out and make our family a priority" is the key to getting the marriage back on track. I assure you, if I had tried submission my husband would have gone down a very dark road and destroyed himself and the family.

To send the women away with no advice? Or not exactly what Lori is thinking?

If she is going to continue giving advice, I would suggest that she does not give blanket advice without knowing as much about the situation as possible. Don't give advice unless she can distance herself from her negative bias towards women because that will cloud her judgment. Don't make assumptions when giving advice. Stick with the facts.

Further suggestions is to study how abused women act. Realize that they often blame themselves for the abuse so when asking for advice they will try and take on the blame because they are ashamed to admit the truth. Realize that emotional abuse can be just as damaging as physical abuse so STOP TREATING IT SO LIGHTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (for real like it isn't a big deal) Think about the fact that chances are at least one or two of those "success" stories are really abused women who have learned to cope and cover up the abuse better. Chances are, they aren't going to come back and tell you. They might even act like everything is fine and Lori's advice "worked" when all they really learned is to heap more blame on themselves and how to better walk on eggshells to avoid being abused. Realize that this sort of a life is extremely damaging to the person being abused, not just physically, but emotionally.

[latraviata]

That is complete baloney. Force-feeding your kid had nothing to do with her eventually growing up to like vegetables. Your palate as a child and as an adult are not the same. As an adult I eat pretty much the entire produce section, gleefully, I'd eat even more fresh organic vegetables it if it weren't so expensive. As a kid, the only fruit or vegetable I liked was kiwis. What did I get from my parents trying to force me to eat iceberg lettuce? A lifelong aversion to iceberg lettuce! I haven't eaten iceberg (any other kind of lettuce, oh yes) in fifteen years. I gag LOOKING at iceberg. Which is fine since it's nutritionally void anyway, but what if my parents had tried that with something actually worth eating?

All my FAVORITE vegetables are vegetables my mother couldn't stand (because her own parents made HER eat them until she puked), so they were never served at our house. I didn't pick up an aversion to squash, asparagus, brussels sprouts, beets, okra, chard, spinach, or any of the dozens of other vegetables I enjoy at every meal.

I liked all kinds of foods as a kid that I think are nasty now, and vice versa. It had precisely nothing to do with the Food Wars and everything to do with just getting older and having my palate change.

Eating should be pleasant for a child, should be an association with sociability and a sense of security. Let them eat at the table with the rest of the family, that is really a stimulus. The less fuss the better. If they don't want to eat, well don't then, don't give them anything else other than what's on the table and try to maintain a good atmosphere.

If not eating is really problematic and the child shows even a hint of growth or weight problems go to a pediatrician.

Don't make it a power struggle!!!

For the older children, put nutricious, tasty and healthy food on the table and skip all the drivel about weight and body shapes.

[latraviata]

Thank you for finally answering.

~In response to the comment that Lori gives advice without knowing the whole story you said this:

Working in that and it may take time to see any real changes,

This sounds like you agree with me, she is giving out advice without knowing the whole story and this is not a good idea, but either she can't see this or she is letting pride get in her way. If she cannot see that it is a horrible idea to give blanket advice without knowing the whole story then I question why we should think she would be a wise mentor. If she is letting pride get in the way of her being able to correct her past mistakes, then that also means that she isn't qualified to be a mentor.

~In response to her negative bias:

Her negative bias comes out of her own life and the life of many she has mentored. Do you know how many timers IO have heard from a woman at work, "Well you just don't know how nasty women can be" or other put downs on women vs. how generally easy going men are in the work place? You don't want the negative bias, but my question to you is does what Lori is saying actually exist in marriages and how many treat their husbands? One often cannot give the cure apart from speaking frankly about the problem to create the awareness necessary for change

First of all, don't you think a wise mentor would try to approach a situation without a bias and be aware of their biases so that they can do their best to not allow it to cloud their judgment? Lori does not even appear to attempt to do that. Yes, sometimes the marriage problems stem from the wife's attitude, but not always. I'm not going to deny that Lori's advice will help some, but when she ALWAYS assumes that the woman is to blame because she is biased to think that way, then she is letting it cloud her judgment. She needs to try and approach each situation as bias free as possible and give advice that is tailored to that situation. Submission is not the cure all that she treats as.

~In response to Lori assuming things:

You respond that the woman was fed up with her man and had any or little grace left for him. Yes she was fed up with him, BUT that does not mean that she has little grace left for him. It means nothing but that she is fed up with his behavior. As a wife who has been in a similar situation where I was fed up with how my husband was treating me, the kids and himself, I can say that I did have grace, love, compassion and respect for him during this time. And submission would not have helped. Telling him to leave and come back when he was ready to work on our marriage did.

This is what Lori assumes:

After the warm, fuzzy feelings wore off, she probably began focusing on his faults instead of his good qualities. She doesn't know this. She is letting her bias cloud her judgment. Is it possible, yes, it is also equally possible that she has been trying to focus on his good qualities. Pointing out a person's mistakes does not mean that they are focusing on them.

She began having contempt for him instead of respect Also just an assumption. I read no contempt in the woman's question. I read desperation, sadness, frustration, but contempt, no.

Thus, the vicious ugly cycle begins and the marriage goes downhill. She shows him contempt and they both begin treating each other with contempt, instead of with gentleness and forgiveness.

Lori has no idea if this is what happened. This is not what happened in my marriage, I can assure you. Is it possible, yes, but it is also possible that it isn't true. Making assumptions when giving advice is never a good idea. Give advice on the facts presented before her, don't assume the woman has not been submissive, don't assume that the woman has been selfish, don't assume that she has shown him contempt. Lori doesn't know if this is like my marriage where a "Leave until you are ready to straighten your life out and make our family a priority" is the key to getting the marriage back on track. I assure you, if I had tried submission my husband would have gone down a very dark road and destroyed himself and the family.

To send the women away with no advice? Or not exactly what Lori is thinking?

If she is going to continue giving advice, I would suggest that she does not give blanket advice without knowing as much about the situation as possible. Don't give advice unless she can distance herself from her negative bias towards women because that will cloud her judgment. Don't make assumptions when giving advice. Stick with the facts.

Further suggestions is to study how abused women act. Realize that they often blame themselves for the abuse so when asking for advice they will try and take on the blame because they are ashamed to admit the truth. Realize that emotional abuse can be just as damaging as physical abuse so STOP TREATING IT SO LIGHTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (for real like it isn't a big deal) Think about the fact that chances are at least one or two of those "success" stories are really abused women who have learned to cope and cover up the abuse better. Chances are, they aren't going to come back and tell you. They might even act like everything is fine and Lori's advice "worked" when all they really learned is to heap more blame on themselves and how to better walk on eggshells to avoid being abused. Realize that this sort of a life is extremely damaging to the person being abused, not just physically, but emotionally.

That's why she is not qualilfied to give any advice at all.

[lipstickgoalie]

I do not know that I feel victimized at this point having gotten to know you many of you a little better. I will say that I see a lot I consider unfair, and mischaracterizations, some out right lies. What got me onto the forum was really one main thing. It read some absurd speculation and accusations about me, about Lori and my family. How I abused Lori and that is why she writes what she writes. Like I am some Philips guy with is controlling and dominating and using God's word to force Lori into writing her blog. That I am the driving force behind her. Many nasty and untrue things were said about me. I know it is the Internet and I just need to suck it up if my wife is going to blog things that you all disagree with... Right?.

I do not mind healthy disagreement and I actually invite it in all who I live with and work with. But the way things were so out of touch with reality, and it seems that some where actually concerned about the lies that they or others had made up. It was weird reading someone lie about me, then others chiming in to be sympathetic about a lie. So I jumped on to at least try and illuminate things.

I think some of you have done a job of strongly stating your opinions, and even throwing in your face comments back me. I get get, you feel you are in a fight or you need to pile as much humiliation on me as you can, etc. I am considered the enemy. But when I see outright attempts to mischaracterize things, pulling words out of context to make a point, it looks to me like a Jay Leno video with the President singing a few words at a time to make a funny song that has nothing gto do with what he would ever say or do. It's just words put into our mouths.

Don't get me wrong. Lori has well over 1000 posts so finding your ammunition should not be hard to make your points. Just do it like you are advising us to do, with recognizing there is a much bigger picture than just what is on the piece of paper.

To illustrate... I caught it regularly for being a horrible husband because I went out and played basketball while I had a sick wife at home. Sacrificial love would have said no basketball ever for you so long as your wife is ill for 25 years. Look back and you will see it thrown at me many times, when the full story is sooooo far from the reality of things. That is just one of over 50 illustrations I could give you and if you look at many accusations I already have given to you.

Victim, or victimized not yet.... but what about the ones who want to destroy my business... fair game right. That si moral; and ethical. What about SEO issues and breaking Google SEO rules to try and put profanity beside Lori's name. Fair or victimizing? You disagree with us, fine. Then battle us in the world of ideas and not personally and personal attacks which have been many on this site.

Ken, I have to ask you to look at the original thread again. When someone brought up contacting your clients about your beliefs that was smacked down pretty quickly by several of us. I was the first one to do so. To be perfectly clear in that statement I refered to you and your wife as "oxygen pirates" because I find your beliefs totally repugnant. Nothing you have said here has caused me to reevaluate that opinion. I find the assertion that we are "out to destroy your business" is disingenuous and hyperbolic.

Edited: because punctuation.

[latraviata]

Please excuse the temporary derail-

OKTBT- Put that disgusting can away and put Little Stevie back up!

docmom- That tapeworm is so GROSS, and I am a woman who used to mouth pipette E. Coli back in the day. Why?

Everybody who couldn't let the worms go should be hanging their heads in the Prayer Closet. Just had to live dangerously, didn't we?

Carry on, I am about to go get some wine for my stomach and my other ailments thanks to the visuals from this thread. :shock:

I'm with you, στην υγειά σας!!

[theologygeek]

We taught our kids that we try to stay within 5-8 pounds of a normal weight, and when we reach that point we cut back the calories to get back in shape. We rarely said anything directly to our children about weight, but indirectly they would know their parents philosophy on the subject. Were we no not to live our lives in front of them?

That is one of the stupidest things I have ever heard in my life. Who proclaimed what the "normal weight" was for each person? Also, what sick person would instill in children to monitor their weight within a 5 to 8 pound range. NO PRESSURE THERE! NO SIREEE.

I stopped this post to ask two of my children the following question:

Me-Do you know what your normal weight is supposed to be? Son-No, what? Me-No, I was asking you if you knew. Son-I don't know. Why do you want to know? Me-Never mind.

Called my daughter up-Do you know what your normal weight is supposed to be? Daughter-Do you know what my normal weight should be? Me-You're not supposed to answer a question with a question. Daughter-Well do you know what my normal weight should be? Me-No. Daughter-If you don't know, then how would I know? Me-I don't know. I'll call you back.

[Koala]

Ken, I have to ask you to look at the original thread again. When someone brought up contacting your clients about your beliefs that was smacked down pretty quickly by several of us. I was the first one to do so.

Here, he doesn't even have to look it up:

moon2552 wrote:

Maybe we should email a link to Kens disciplining wives post to all the dentists featured on his Millennium page?

lipstickgoalie wrote:

As much as I hate these oxygen pirates that is crossing the line. It is kind of frowned upon around here.

Loveday wrote:

This. I'm really uncomfortable with any sort of targeting of Ken's business. It's totally secular as far as we know, and has nothing to do with Lori's blog or their personal beliefs. I say leave it alone and keep our snarking to the blog. Just my two cents.

Koala wrote:

I will chime in and agree...I get very uncomfortable when this crosses over into real life interaction (unless a child is in danger and we are reporting to CPS)

[salex]

I do not know that I feel victimized at this point having gotten to know you many of you a little better. I will say that I see a lot I consider unfair, and mischaracterizations, some out right lies. What got me onto the forum was really one main thing. It read some absurd speculation and accusations about me, about Lori and my family. How I abused Lori and that is why she writes what she writes. Like I am some Philips guy with is controlling and dominating and using God's word to force Lori into writing her blog. That I am the driving force behind her. Many nasty and untrue things were said about me. I know it is the Internet and I just need to suck it up if my wife is going to blog things that you all disagree with... Right?.

I do not mind healthy disagreement and I actually invite it in all who I live with and work with. But the way things were so out of touch with reality, and it seems that some where actually concerned about the lies that they or others had made up. It was weird reading someone lie about me, then others chiming in to be sympathetic about a lie. So I jumped on to at least try and illuminate things.

I think some of you have done a job of strongly stating your opinions, and even throwing in your face comments back me. I get get, you feel you are in a fight or you need to pile as much humiliation on me as you can, etc. I am considered the enemy. But when I see outright attempts to mischaracterize things, pulling words out of context to make a point, it looks to me like a Jay Leno video with the President singing a few words at a time to make a funny song that has nothing gto do with what he would ever say or do. It's just words put into our mouths.

Don't get me wrong. Lori has well over 1000 posts so finding your ammunition should not be hard to make your points. Just do it like you are advising us to do, with recognizing there is a much bigger picture than just what is on the piece of paper.

To illustrate... I caught it regularly for being a horrible husband because I went out and played basketball while I had a sick wife at home. Sacrificial love would have said no basketball ever for you so long as your wife is ill for 25 years. Look back and you will see it thrown at me many times, when the full story is sooooo far from the reality of things. That is just one of over 50 illustrations I could give you and if you look at many accusations I already have given to you.

Victim, or victimized not yet.... but what about the ones who want to destroy my business... fair game right. That si moral; and ethical. What about SEO issues and breaking Google SEO rules to try and put profanity beside Lori's name. Fair or victimizing? You disagree with us, fine. Then battle us in the world of ideas and not personally and personal attacks which have been many on this site.

[Koala]

That's why she is not qualilfied to give any advice at all.

This was posted by Ken in the comments of Lori's blog:

She typically does not like to present both sides of the story because when she does she feels that many women take it as a cop out.

[formergothardite]

If I was going to give advice like to a person in the one lady's situation I would find out if this is a one time thing with her husband leaving her stranded in the cold with their child(it doesn't sound like it). Find out what steps she has taken to try and work on her relationship with her husband. And, if I believe like Lori, find out if she has tried submission. Find out if his treatment of her has been escalating. Find out if she feels scared of him. Find out why he has refused all marriage counseling. Try to find out if she is exaggerating or downplaying what is going on in the marriage. I would want to know all these things and more before I even attempted to give her advice.

Lori doesn't do any of that. She gives blanket advice.

Doesn't the Bible say that not many should be teachers because teachers are held to a higher standard? Or something like that?

[theologygeek]

I had more trouble eating my dinner tonight because I had the worms stuck in my head.

[Ken]

Pickiest things? Your wife's "ministry" includes child rearing advice and your daughter was borderline anorexic. That should have humbled you and your wife enough to keep your mouths shut regarding how to raise children.

You're not getting it. Lori went all Joan Crawford on one of her children to get her to eat and she has a daughter with food issues so bad that she almost ended up with anorexia. That is not a little oops, Ken. That is big and very bad. People have died from anorexia. You and your wife are not taking fault for that. My kids are grown. They can eat half this board under the table. When I say they can eat, I mean they can eat. If I told you what one of my kids does for a living and where she does it, you would be embarrassed at what you wrote above. Latraviata knows because I told her. Suffice to say, my daughter is an excellent cook and she has a love for food. I'm Italian Ken. We have a romance with food to begin with.

Take that up with your wife and children. They have their first and last names plastered on the internet, along with their personal business. It's like running naked through Times Square and asking for privacy while doing it.

Perfect example again. The fact that Daughter #1 struggled with a little weight and body issues because her desire was to be a top ballerina, that's the parents fault right? Like the world she is working in doesn't care?

She talked to me a number of times about her issues and I helped her work through them in a healthy way. She was never anorexic like others in her group, and always ate well... she just carried a little extra weight for a ballerina and we were OK with that, but we also wanted her to get to her dreams. I would say up to the age of 18 we may have mentioned or talked about weight 3-4 times and all related to her feelings.

I don;t get the blame here? Are parents to be blamed for all their kids issues, real and perceived? We never pushed ballet on her, and actually tried to pull her a bit away from it. So I don't get what you are referring to here.

[Ken]

Close the blog. If something is on the internet, it risks getting talked about. We get free speech too. Blogger allows you have a private blog if you only want certain people to read what you write. Put a lock on your door and close the shades if you want to be left alone. There is a pattern here of you trying to turn the blame around when the faults so far have been with you and your wife.

Free speech is fine... I am all for it. Responsible speech is what I am asking for.

[samurai_sarah]

Free speech is fine... I am all for it. Responsible speech is what I am asking for.

I'd like to see that on Lori's blog.

[Mama Mia]

Perfect example again. The fact that Daughter #1 struggled with a little weight and body issues because her desire was to be a top ballerina, that's the parents fault right? Like the world she is working in doesn't care?

She talked to me a number of times about her issues and I helped her work through them in a healthy way. She was never anorexic like others in her group, and always ate well... she just carried a little extra weight for a ballerina and we were OK with that, but we also wanted her to get to her dreams. I would say up to the age of 18 we may have mentioned or talked about weight 3-4 times and all related to her feelings.

I don;t get the blame here? Are parents to be blamed for all their kids issues, real and perceived? We never pushed ballet on her, and actually tried to pull her a bit away from it. So I don't get what you are referring to here.

Well, no offense intended, but you kind of set yourself up for this. If as a parent you want to take credit for your children's successes, and attribute it primarily to your parenting methods, then you also have to take the primary blame when they have problems. It's only fair.

Personally, my theory is that my kids successes and struggles are a mixture of their own personalities, the world they grow up in, various circumstances that happen and, of course, the good and bad things I did as a parent.

[theologygeek]

Perfect example again. The fact that Daughter #1 struggled with a little weight and body issues because her desire was to be a top ballerina, that's the parents fault right? Like the world she is working in doesn't care?

She talked to me a number of times about her issues and I helped her work through them in a healthy way. She was never anorexic like others in her group, and always ate well... she just carried a little extra weight for a ballerina and we were OK with that, but we also wanted her to get to her dreams. I would say up to the age of 18 we may have mentioned or talked about weight 3-4 times and all related to her feelings.

I don;t get the blame here? Are parents to be blamed for all their kids issues, real and perceived? We never pushed ballet on her, and actually tried to pull her a bit away from it. So I don't get what you are referring to here.

It's like you're holding your hands over your ears and saying "La la la, I can't hear you." One of your daughters came right out and blamed her mother for her near anorexic condition.

[Ken]

***Quoting myself again, because you have accused me of mischaracterizing you and you should at least have the integrity to show me how these quotes do so.***

You say you were mischaracterized, here's your chance to clarify.

Here's your chance set the record straight. If you ignore it then I will assume that these were indeed your quotes and you were not mischaracterized as you claim:

Are the words I attributed to you yours? If so, how did quoting them mischaracterize you?

[Ken]

Yes Polecat, Lori received and receives many comments and nasty statements, many of which came from this Forum according to Goggle. My guess almost all of the nasty people are part f this group. I remember reading years ago when she was getting the comments from this group and a few were saying. "that can't be from our group." Yes, your group perpetuates hate and nasty comments although I do find that many here seem quite responsible individuals which I appreciate.

Why do you continue to mischaracterize and falsely accuse. Show me where the abuse is in my family. Any abuse. You disagree with our approach to discipline, but to characterize this as abuse is to say that almost all parents are abusive/ 75% of parents still spank, and for a reason. It is a very effective and proven tool for raising great kids when done right.

[theologygeek]

As the parent of a daughter I have been approached about dance, pageants and the like. We said no because we were concerned about that very issue. We feel that it's highly inappropriate to place a child in a situation where they will be judged on the basis of their looks, or where they are in a situation that body image issues are a given. It doesn't make a hill of beans to us whether the child wishes to be in that situation or not. As parents we can see around corners that they can't always see around and it's our job to protect them..

Same here. My daughter had five years of dance-ballet, tap, and jazz. She wanted to join the company which was different from regular dance lessons. The company traveled around the country and did competitions. I said no. She wanted to be a ballerina and I said nooooo way. I told her that she could be almost anything but that. Call me a bad mother. I really don't care. I had long talks with her about how there would be too much pressure on her to stay thin, and that it might lead her down a dangerous path. I also told her that no job is worth it if it is based on body size. After all the hard work I did to keep my kids from having body, weight, and food issues, I was going to let her do that? I don't think so.

[theologygeek]

So we are bad parents for allowing Alyssa to dance in ballet… her choice, her request, and her mom’s huge 5 day week driving to get her there. We did not have your wisdom Koala. You prove again you are smarter than us, but you also don’t acre about your child’s ambitions or desires.

What ambitions and desires? Is your daughter doing that now? According to your wife's blog, your daughter isn't doing it now. She's married now. Soon the babies will come. By the time she is ready to go back to work, she will be too old and out of shape to get a job dancing. My daughter is a college graduate and has an excellent job. Even if she takes time off to have babies, she can always go back to her field. Your daughter can't, so where did it get her? That she got to experience it for a while? So did my daughter. She had dance lessons where she could dance her heart out all she wanted. It's pretty sad when a person is told that they are too old and don't have a nice enough body to continue pursuing their dream.

[Ken]

Can you please clarify this statement? :evil-eye:

Responsible people should be able to separate out the difference between differing opinions and ideals that a blogger posts, and who they are as a person. If we showed such hatred to other countries with which we disagree with their socialism, communism and dictatorships we could find little harmony. Lori and I are good, kind, generous and thoughtful people who just have a different worldview then you do. Our world view is not new and is help by billions around the world. I get that you hate our world view, but to hate us and write hateful things to and about us, is not decent human behavior... even if you think it is fun. You certainly would not condone it if a Fundie Forum was saying these things about you and trying to promote it in the Googgle SEO:

Lori is a hateful horrible specimen of humanity on Valentine's Day or any other day.

I start to feel bad that they are married to such assholes, but then I remember they "teach" that being a douchelord should be normative and how dare any woman expect different.

~ Yes that is me they are talking about with no facts as to what I do for Lori.

I'm going to have to give you a virtual high-five for introducing me to the term "douchelord." I'm going to make a sincere effort to work it into my regular rotation of insults.

Oh and: Lori Alexander is a fucking monster on Valentine's Day

So clearly, Lori and SSM are selfish bitches if they ask to be appreciated and treated with respect. Or something.

Just remember that karma is a bitch, and you and your kind have it coming in spades. FUCK YOU AND LORI!

I will end on that one… but I bet the list is mile deep and not just with me and with Lori. I will no repost all of the libelous lies told about me, and name calling.

There is a good reason why the owner of this Forum needed to take it private, perhaps behind a LLC or Nonprofit. The fear of being sued over what was being said is a real fear, I get it. They cannot control the irresponsible people who get onto the Forum and refuse to police the comments.

[Ken]

That is one of the stupidest things I have ever heard in my life. Who proclaimed what the "normal weight" was for each person? Also, what sick person would instill in children to monitor their weight within a 5 to 8 pound range. NO PRESSURE THERE! NO SIREEE.

I stopped this post to ask two of my children the following question:

Me-Do you know what your normal weight is supposed to be? Son-No, what? Me-No, I was asking you if you knew. Son-I don't know. Why do you want to know? Me-Never mind.

Called my daughter up-Do you know what your normal weight is supposed to be? Daughter-Do you know what my normal weight should be? Me-You're not supposed to answer a question with a question. Daughter-Well do you know what my normal weight should be? Me-No. Daughter-If you don't know, then how would I know? Me-I don't know. I'll call you back.

Sorry... the "we" refers to Lori and to me. We have b=never a clue what our kids weigh. We may have suggested to them our approach to maintaining weight, but I cannot remember. If we did, we believe in allowing each person to determine what their "normal" weight should be. Can you not tell me your normal weight? The weight you would like to be and not get more the 8 lbs over that weight?

Sorry, mu=y fault for not being clear... no children in this pack to keep weight in check. I think it healthy for all couples to make this pact, the be gracious when a spouse struggles with weight. I do more than Lori, but just because I made the pact to try, I try harder than I would if I has not made the commitment. It is just food. Stop eating as much when overweight.

[Ken]

Honestly, I have no concerns about being linked to Lori's blog, nor with my clients. Again, a wrong conclusion, but what you are thinking generally would make sense. I will not explain why, but suffice it to say with 30 years at the top of my profession, and such a scattered profession around the world, I might actually enjoy less work. But why would you want to harm me? That does not seem very responsible to fight in the world of ideas so you go after someone in their business??? Weird thinking to me, but it is kind f what I see in liberalism and activists. It you cannot shout them down, be nasty.

[theologygeek]

Can you not tell me your normal weight? The weight you would like to be and not get more the 8 lbs over that weight?

I have no clue what my normal weight is supposed to be. The weight I would like to be is the weight that I am at. I like my body.

[Ken]

Do you know what I mean by this? Lori read every marriage book she could get her hands in for years and each one if them taught both sides of the marriage equation. Every time she read the husband's responsibilities she copped out on her's waiting for me to change to her liking. It was only after reading "Created" which is on purpose a one sided book (The husband's book was just published) it finally registered that she had to do her part no matter what, and that might lead to a great marriage.

Guess what... it worked... but mainly because she changed her focus off of me and put it into her own behavior. This is Personal Growth 101 which I have taught for years. Look in the mirror and solve your side of the issues, then see where things stand.

So Lori's sense s that if she starts focusing in on the husband, first she cannot change him, and second, the wives she mentors will cop out like she did for years. Her message is simple. You want a great marriage, work on you and make sure you make your side of the marriage inviting, fun and joyful. Most men are built to follow along. Don't cop out on your responsibilities just because your spouse is not yet doing his part.