Lori - V-Day Causes Divorce - Now With Moar Ken! Part 2

[Ken]

Close the blog. If something is on the internet, it risks getting talked about. We get free speech too. Blogger allows you have a private blog if you only want certain people to read what you write. Put a lock on your door and close the shades if you want to be left alone. There is a pattern here of you trying to turn the blame around when the faults so far have been with you and your wife.

I do not mind if you talk about the blog, and I did not know that Bloogers has a lock on it. That might ruin some of your fun, but certainly something with considering because Lori's ministry is for Christian women who desire to be great wives and moms, not really to everyone. We have been under the assumption that those who would view the blog do so by choice, it certainly is not a forced thing in any way.

[Nettie]

No, we're not trying to set the rules for the internet - but it does seem to be commonly held amongst everyone I know that it's wise to limit the amount of personal information you put on there. It's not to do with sliding in the gutter, it's to do with exercising caution and realising that anyone can read (and quote) what is out there.

[formergothardite]

Imagine this in The Count's voice: "One time of being ignored!"

And no, Ken, the vague, "you have given us some things to think about" isn't responding. It is a classic way to pretend to respond without having to actually respond. Responding will be taking each point and addressing it. If you don't agree explain why.

You all do exactly what you accuse Lori of me of doing, and it is part of the nature of responding to the written word.

Last time I checked we haven't set ourselves up as wise mentors delivering God's advice.

The Count again: "Two times of being ignored!" Or maybe he is working on answering and this is premature?

[Mama Mia]

Thank you. It is not easy, because Lori started out just wanting a fun hobby and a way of sharing her journey. She has enjoyed the family on her blog and has no desire to hurt or harm anyone. I am a supportive husband and do see the ministry she has which is powerful. I would not be here on this Forum if I did not feel that the best way to continue to grow in life as a person, professional and spiritually, is to speak to your critics. It is not easy hearing other people's perceptions and thoughts, and I am not about to give up my fundamental beliefs in the power of God's Word and what it teaches, but I hate the idea that what we teach and say comes across as unloving or "darn right Christians": the Bible told me so. I have worked hard in my professional life as a consultant to overcome the perception as "darn right" but I have not yet figured out how to do this on the spiritual side of things. I am making baby steps in this area of my life, but this is perhaps my next major area of necessary change, for me. I cannot speak for Lori, but things do tend to rub off in a close marriage.

I think that is a very good way to look at it. I have never blogged, but I can see how it would easily spin out of control. I think that as far as the attitudes toward food go, I'd like to suggest you might be perceiving weight and health from a very specific sub-culture, not to stereotype, but upper middle class Southern California is hardly the norm regarding the amount of obsession on appearance, and particularly weight. I think, in this area, it might be helpful for you to learn about how other people in other areas/socio-economic status/cultures deal with food and weight. While on paper being a healthy weight is a great thing, the obsession that some sub-cultures have with weight can be very unhealthy and out-weigh ( ha, unintentional :lol: ) the benefits. For example if Lori had not battled for hours over salad it's very likely your daughter would have come to enjoy salads in any case, but without the food issues. Just an observation.

[salex]

Ken,

Where and how do you feel any of you are being victimized by the people at FJ?

Basically, people here occasionally pipe up their disagreement and disapproval of what she is posting. she rags on about evil un-submissive women and how she is sure they are disobeying god. We occasionally discuss how we hold disdain for her opinions and actions. How is our disdain (ie, the disdain of people who she holds in disdain) victimizing anyone?

[Ken]

Imagine this in The Count's voice: "One time of being ignored!"

And no, Ken, the vague, "you have given us some things to think about" isn't responding. It is a classic way to pretend to pretend to respond without having to actually respond. Responding will be taking each point and addressing it. If you don't agree explain why.

You all do exactly what you accuse Lori of me of doing, and it is part of the nature of responding to the written word.

Last time I checked we haven't set ourselves up as wise mentors delivering God's advice.

~Lori is giving marriage advice over the internet without knowing the full story.(Example: the woman locked out of her house. Lori does not know if this is an escalating pattern of abuse, a one time incident, worse than the writer made it seem because abused women will do that when discussing problems. She doesn't know, yet gave advice to submit more not knowing if that would be helpful or dangerous. Also, the time she gave out advise to the woman about spanking without knowing that she had been spanking hard enough to worry about breaking bones.)

Working in that and it may take time to see any real changes, but it certainly is on our minds now how important you think this is.

~Lori is giving marriage advice over the internet starting with a negative bias about women(Example: post with the woman locked out of the house. Lori automatically blamed the woman for not being submissive enough or respectful to her husband. She has no way of knowing if this is true, she just has a negative bias against women.)

Her negative bias comes out of her own life and the life of many she has mentored. Do you know how many timers IO have heard from a woman at work, "Well you just don't know how nasty women can be" or other put downs on women vs. how generally easy going men are in the work place? You don't want the negative bias, but my question to you is does what Lori is saying actually exist in marriages and how many treat their husbands? One often cannot give the cure apart from speaking frankly about the problem to create the awareness necessary for change.

~Lori assumes things about the situation when giving advice.(Example: back to the woman locked out of the post. She assumed that the woman started getting disrespectful and unsubmissive with out knowing if any of that is true.)

No, the women herself showed that she was fed up with her man and had little or any grace left for him. I will agree that we all read too much into the story. point well taken that we must be careful to at least give a disclaimer first that we do not know your full story. I can see from most of the accusations on this Forum against us that their is a sliver of truth that has been made into a mountain because you do not have all the facts... just what you see in the writing and then fill in the gaps with your own bias and opinions, whereas if you had more facts at least the strength of your original thinking would be significantly watered down.

~So we have a woman giving advice based on not knowing the whole story, a negative bias, and assumptions. Please explain to me how that is a wise idea. Especially since you have accused us of making assumptions about things on your blog because we have a negative bias. If it is bad for us, when we aren't even giving advice, how much worse is it for Lori who is setting herself up as a mentor?

Again point taken, and Lori's position right or wrong is that if this women is looking for advice from her she is going to get her advice as best she can give it. To send the women away with no advice? Or not exactly what Lori is thinking? There is a big difference when someone is asking for advice and when some one is offering advice without it being requested. One generally assumes that the one asking the advice will come back with further clarification if the advice giving does not hit the problem, or they will accept the advice, or reject it and move on. The Internet is a wonderful thing, and your friends have explained to me that it is a dangerous place at times when bad people, or bad advice is given out. To ask Lori to give no advice is not fair to the one's seeking it. To ask her to think about a broader set of possibilities instead iof just what she sees in the question,. and to evaluate her biases as she responds, probably great advice.

Now getting that into the mind, keeping it in mind and learning and growing in how one does this, that is the challenge going forward.

And now, Lori is it promoting marriage rape, although she is much more aware to better screen the quotes she uses? She finds a quote and likes it not sometimes because she agrees with it, but because she think is it will make her point or get her readers thinking about things. You see harm in this, and perhaps there could be, but not a one of her readers outsider of your group even knew who this guy was, or at least few if any contacted her to express their concerns, again, I speak of her regular participants.

I hope this clears up your questions. You make some good points, but only Lori an g=figure out how to become a better blog writer and adopt better approaches to giving advice.

[OkToBeTakei]

Thank you. It is not easy, because Lori started out just wanting a fun hobby and a way of sharing her journey. She has enjoyed the family on her blog and has no desire to hurt or harm anyone. I am a supportive husband and do see the ministry she has which is powerful. I would not be here on this Forum if I did not feel that the best way to continue to grow in life as a person, professional and spiritually, is to speak to your critics. It is not easy hearing other people's perceptions and thoughts, and I am not about to give up my fundamental beliefs in the power of God's Word and what it teaches, but I hate the idea that what we teach and say comes across as unloving or "darn right Christians": the Bible told me so. I have worked hard in my professional life as a consultant to overcome the perception as "darn right" but I have not yet figured out how to do this on the spiritual side of things. I am making baby steps in this area of my life, but this is perhaps my next major area of necessary change, for me. I cannot speak for Lori, but things do tend to rub off in a close marriage.

Unfortunately it does come across as darn right Christian. I honestly see no way around it if your faith is based on evangelism and a great part of it revolves around spreading the word, in fact being instructed as part of your faith to do so. I suppose maybe if you respect that 2xx believes Judaism is the true path, theologygeek believes atheism is the true path, Abigail believes Catholicism is the only true path and they believe this as strongly as you believe your path. The difference though is although I SUSPECT that is what they feel, they have never tried to impose their beliefs in the manner you do. Just as it may appear charismatic and attractive to some, for others it is extremely off-putting and probably does your faith and message a disservice.

I believe none of you are wrong.

(using names as examples only.)

[Koala]

I do not wish to downplay my daughter's views of food and body issues, but they have lots of company on these issues. Can you tell me that a majority of young women do not at some point struggle with these issues and how about 90% of all ballerina's? Now imagine growing up in a house with a professional ballerina. Alyssa and I had regular ice cream together many nights and both daughters talked to me about their feelings and issues and we worked though them in a loving and caring way. But I see little difference with my daughters than I see in other families when it comes to food with one big exception. Those who ate whatever whenever either had the metabolism to do so, or they got heavy. We taught our kids that we try to stay within 5-8 pounds of a normal weight, and when we reach that point we cut back the calories to get back in shape. We rarely said anything directly to our children about weight, but indirectly they would know their parents philosophy on the subject. Were we no not to live our lives in front of them?

Lastly, our goals were always looking to the fruit of self discipline in the future. To say someone had a struggle but is now a better person for it and not struggling, or at least not much... isn't that a success story?

Are you kidding me? You have two adult daughters who have both seen fit to blog about their struggles with body image (one even going as far as to say she was on the verge of anorexia), and you have the gall to downplay it? To say that because they came out in one piece the way you and Lori raised them was a success? No. They are responsible for their success. You are Lori failed them both miserably in this area, and then Lori has the nerve to entice other fools to follow her advice without mentioning what the end result of her food/weight obsession was.

Further, if you blame one daughter's issues on her being a ballerina, then why on earth did you allow her to purse it? If my child's hobby came at the cost of their view of themselves, then it would no longer be their hobby.

You are unfair when you reach into the past, find an issue and blame for it when the results turn out great. And no, you do not get to dictate what Lori writes on her blog. You can make suggestions, but she gets to do what she feels is right, or you and me, we would be controlling and dominant, exactly what we both do not believe in.

No, I can't dictate what Lori writes on her blog, but I can sure shine a spot light on it.

[Koala]

So now yo are setting the rules for the Internet and how it is supposed to be? Or you are just sliding right along into the gutter with others and that is OK because why? Others do it too. Well there are many things I try not to do just because the crowd is doing it when they are unfair, unkind and mischaracterizations.

I have absolutely no moral objection to quoting a public blog and commenting on said quotes. You cry mischaracterization, but when presented with your own quotes and a chance to clarify you ignore it.

[Koala]

Thank you. It is not easy, because Lori started out just wanting a fun hobby and a way of sharing her journey. She has enjoyed the family on her blog and has no desire to hurt or harm anyone. I am a supportive husband and do see the ministry she has which is powerful.

Advising people on marriage and child rearing is not a fun hobby to keep a bored housewife busy. This is peoples lives, and your wife's "fun hobby" led her to advise an abusive mother to hit her child harder.

I would not be here on this Forum if I did not feel that the best way to continue to grow in life as a person, professional and spiritually, is to speak to your critics.

Then why did you state that you would not allow your wife to read here?

[Ken]

Ken,

Where and how do you feel any of you are being victimized by the people at FJ?

Basically, people here occasionally pipe up their disagreement and disapproval of what she is posting. she rags on about evil un-submissive women and how she is sure they are disobeying god. We occasionally discuss how we hold disdain for her opinions and actions. How is our disdain (ie, the disdain of people who she holds in disdain) victimizing anyone?

I do not know that I feel victimized at this point having gotten to know you many of you a little better. I will say that I see a lot I consider unfair, and mischaracterizations, some out right lies. What got me onto the forum was really one main thing. It read some absurd speculation and accusations about me, about Lori and my family. How I abused Lori and that is why she writes what she writes. Like I am some Philips guy with is controlling and dominating and using God's word to force Lori into writing her blog. That I am the driving force behind her. Many nasty and untrue things were said about me. I know it is the Internet and I just need to suck it up if my wife is going to blog things that you all disagree with... Right?.

I do not mind healthy disagreement and I actually invite it in all who I live with and work with. But the way things were so out of touch with reality, and it seems that some where actually concerned about the lies that they or others had made up. It was weird reading someone lie about me, then others chiming in to be sympathetic about a lie. So I jumped on to at least try and illuminate things.

I think some of you have done a job of strongly stating your opinions, and even throwing in your face comments back me. I get get, you feel you are in a fight or you need to pile as much humiliation on me as you can, etc. I am considered the enemy. But when I see outright attempts to mischaracterize things, pulling words out of context to make a point, it looks to me like a Jay Leno video with the President singing a few words at a time to make a funny song that has nothing gto do with what he would ever say or do. It's just words put into our mouths.

Don't get me wrong. Lori has well over 1000 posts so finding your ammunition should not be hard to make your points. Just do it like you are advising us to do, with recognizing there is a much bigger picture than just what is on the piece of paper.

To illustrate... I caught it regularly for being a horrible husband because I went out and played basketball while I had a sick wife at home. Sacrificial love would have said no basketball ever for you so long as your wife is ill for 25 years. Look back and you will see it thrown at me many times, when the full story is sooooo far from the reality of things. That is just one of over 50 illustrations I could give you and if you look at many accusations I already have given to you.

Victim, or victimized not yet.... but what about the ones who want to destroy my business... fair game right. That si moral; and ethical. What about SEO issues and breaking Google SEO rules to try and put profanity beside Lori's name. Fair or victimizing? You disagree with us, fine. Then battle us in the world of ideas and not personally and personal attacks which have been many on this site.

[Koala]

***Quoting myself again, because you have accused me of mischaracterizing you and you should at least have the integrity to show me how these quotes do so.***

You have further implied that Lori's free speech is being impeded and I'd like for you to address that as well. You are good at making accusations Ken, but I find that when someone addresses them you retreat and ignore.

Ken wrote:

OK Koala, your chasing me out of your playground soon. I cannot compete with your cut and paste to make everything look like you want it to look. Mischarcaterizations at best, and an unwillingness to recognize that one can hold two thoughts in the brain at once and both be accurate.

Ken wrote:

Yes, Koala, you can put works on apiece of a paper well to serve your purposes,but have you ever thought of trying to serve fairness in your life, or at least fairness with me?

You know, the more I think about your assertion that you have been mischaracterized, the more irritated I get. You want fairness. Here's fairness.

You say I put words on paper? Here's your chance to tell me these are not your words.

You say you were mischaracterized, here's your chance to clarify.

Here's your chance set the record straight. If you ignore it then I will assume that these were indeed your quotes and you were not mischaracterized as you claim:

1)

Mom:

I had one that would never give in to anything, regardless of punishment, spanking did nothing but make her worse, time outs where a joke, finally I picked her up and threw her under a cold shower

Lori Alexander:

A spanking will work if it is hard enough

Mom:

Not with her, we tried hand, and although I was against it belt, wooden spoon, cane everything she would just keep going, I stopped after I thought I broke her arm...

Ken Alexander:

Listen I get the issue that we need to protect against abuse, but you know full well this was not an abusive mother.

Alright, there it is Ken. Are the words I attributed to you yours? If so, how did quoting them mischaracterize you?

2)

SSM

Repeal marital rape laws – not because men are just dying to rape women (they aren’t) but because these laws give women the mistaken impression that they have the right to refuse sex with their husbands.

Why: If we want men to have to marry in order to have access to sex – which is necessary if we are going to foster traditional sex roles and enhance family formation – they must have assurance that they will actually get sex after they marry. If a woman wants to live in a man’s house and eat of his bread, she had better be willing to serve him in this way (barring illness of course); if she refuses to give it to him, he should have the option to take what is rightfully his.

Ken Alexander:

I see a brilliant writer and advocate for submission in a Christian marriage, but you and your friends are giving Lori and me pause to reevaluate

.

Are the words I attributed to you yours? If so, how did quoting them mischaracterize you?

3)

SSM:

Consider asking your husband if he would be willing to spank you as part of foreplay.

Please don’t panic. Spanking is not a slippery slope that will lead to BDSM, disturbing fetishes or deviant sexual practices. I can promise you that from personal experience; you won’t be spanked one day and in leather restraints the next. Some people practice Christian Domestic Discipline, but that is actually not what I am recommending either. This is only to be about increasing your attraction to him by having him display dominance via consensual sexual aggression.

It is his decision if he would be willing to try this; this may be outside his comfort zone completely, and he may be feeling very mistrustful of you, but if he is willing to try it, you may not be sure of what to do. Here is one possible way to go: first, ask him to buy a wooden hair brush that has a very flat back (the curved ones tend to leave more bruises). The brush should be on your dresser.

He can sit down on the edge of the bed and tell you to bring the brush to him. Get it, and then kneel down on the floor in front of him and hand the brush to him. He can then pull you firmly but lovingly across his lap, either with lingerie on or no bottoms. It might be easier to have your legs supported on the bed, but your hands off the bed so that you are slightly off balance. He can then administer the spanking; he might want to know that he can swat fairly hard without causing bruises, but even if you do have a bruise the next day, you won’t die.

The number of strokes should be up to him, not you; he decides when the spanking is over (h/t 7man for that idea), not you. When he is done, get on your knees in front of him and say thank you to him. You should thank him because he is doing something that may be outside his comfort zone in order to help you, and you do not deserve it. He is doing this out of love for you, so show him the gratitude he so richly deserves.

Scripture to meditate upon: For the moment all discipline seems painful rather than pleasant, but later it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it. Hebrews 12:11

(AFTER reading these quotes Ken Alexander said):

BUT SSM made very clear to Lori she is not an advocate of Domestic Discipline

SSM is teaching some sex training for a previous whore

Are the words I attributed to you yours? If so, how did quoting them mischaracterize you?

4)

Ken Alexander:

just because a wife is emotionally abused does not mean she should leave her man or take him to the elders, or separate.

Are the words I attributed to you yours? If so, how did quoting them mischaracterize you?

[polecat]

I will point out that yes, anyone who blogs puts their life out there, but if they are victimized are we to blame them or the one's doing the victimizing? Kind of like blaming the submissive wife who is getting controlled and dominated by her unloving husband because she put herself in that spot. Yes, she married the jerk, but he is one victimizing her, and she is not to blame. Sorry if you think this is a poor analogy, and it certainly is at two different levels, but just because someone blogs doers not make them fair game for all types of messages and words, unless you don't believe that human responsibility belongs even to those hiding behind their fake monikers.

Ken, unless people are visiting your wife's blog and leaving hateful messages (not just messages that disagree, mind you) or directly emailing her with nasty messages, I'm not sure how she's being victimized. Discussing her (very public) stances and beliefs in another forum is not victimizing her. If the former is happening, I understand your feelings and agree that it's not ok, but if it's just the latter? People have the right to discuss their own reactions to her words without being accused of bullying.

Lastly, our goals were always looking to the fruit of self discipline in the future. To say someone had a struggle but is now a better person for it and not struggling, or at least not much... isn't that a success story? You are unfair when you reach into the past, find an issue and blame for it when the results turn out great. And no, you do not get to dictate what Lori writes on her blog. You can make suggestions, but she gets to do what she feels is right, or you and me, we would be controlling and dominant, exactly what we both do not believe in.

No, no, no, no, no, no. No, the ends do NOT justify the means. When abused children grow up to be decent human beings, do their parents get to pat themselves on the back? No. No, they do not. They grew up into decent people in spite of their parents. Not because of them. And I say this as a survivor who managed to grow up into a decent person in spite of my own parents.

[Arete]

Please excuse the temporary derail-

OKTBT- Put that disgusting can away and put Little Stevie back up!

docmom- That tapeworm is so GROSS, and I am a woman who used to mouth pipette E. Coli back in the day. Why?

Everybody who couldn't let the worms go should be hanging their heads in the Prayer Closet. Just had to live dangerously, didn't we?

Carry on, I am about to go get some wine for my stomach and my other ailments thanks to the visuals from this thread. :shock:

[theologygeek]

I do not mind if you talk about the blog.

You have no say in who talks about a public blog. What you put out for the entire world to see may get talked about by the entire world. Why do I have to explain to you how the internet works? This is something even children know.

and I did not know that Bloogers has a lock on it. That might ruin some of your fun

It wouldn't ruin my fun. I only read your wife's blog a couple of times, and it made me sick. I am curious about a post you made here regarding your children's fruits. You said you would match up your children's fruits with anyone, any day. What are they? I'm interested in hearing what your children's fruits are.

[theologygeek]

If OK can do it, so can I. He's a hookworm.

It looks like a beheaded penis.

[theologygeek]

I am about to go get some wine for my stomach and my other ailments

You caught the worms!

[Coconut Flan]

My biggest question tonight has become which bottle of wine to open. Patriarchy, internet naïveté, worms, that chicken again, and a rain storm with all but one thing being this thread alone is enough for one afternoon.

[lawfulevil]

When one is careful what one eats, food and healthy food become a much more important topic and part of ones life. That is the reason for the focus on food, and one daughter is an excellent cook. but her first love is a huge organic salad, proving that keeping your kid at the table for two hours a few times to get them to eat their veggies may be well worth it in the long run. At least it was for one daughter.

That is complete baloney. Force-feeding your kid had nothing to do with her eventually growing up to like vegetables. Your palate as a child and as an adult are not the same. As an adult I eat pretty much the entire produce section, gleefully, I'd eat even more fresh organic vegetables it if it weren't so expensive. As a kid, the only fruit or vegetable I liked was kiwis. What did I get from my parents trying to force me to eat iceberg lettuce? A lifelong aversion to iceberg lettuce! I haven't eaten iceberg (any other kind of lettuce, oh yes) in fifteen years. I gag LOOKING at iceberg. Which is fine since it's nutritionally void anyway, but what if my parents had tried that with something actually worth eating?

All my FAVORITE vegetables are vegetables my mother couldn't stand (because her own parents made HER eat them until she puked), so they were never served at our house. I didn't pick up an aversion to squash, asparagus, brussels sprouts, beets, okra, chard, spinach, or any of the dozens of other vegetables I enjoy at every meal.

I liked all kinds of foods as a kid that I think are nasty now, and vice versa. It had precisely nothing to do with the Food Wars and everything to do with just getting older and having my palate change.

[lawfulevil]

It's not just me, either, re: changing tastes. My final for Speech class is a 10 minute persuasive, my topic is "Try Something You Hate". The audience is mostly 18-22 years old and I think the best message I can give them that they'll actually be willing to listen to is that being 18, even if you still live at home, IS different from being 8. Why should you try something you 'know' you dislike? Because research (which Ken, if you like, I can show you) shows that your tastes aren't the same all your life.

Ken somehow raised a daughter open-minded enough to give salads another try despite "knowing" they are disgusting and terrible. That's great for his daughter, but I don't think it had anything to do with him...

[Koala]

but just because someone blogs doers not make them fair game for all types of messages and words,

Can you please clarify this statement? :evil-eye:

[polecat]

That is complete baloney. Force-feeding your kid had nothing to do with her eventually growing up to like vegetables. Your palate as a child and as an adult are not the same. As an adult I eat pretty much the entire produce section, gleefully, I'd eat even more fresh organic vegetables it if it weren't so expensive. As a kid, the only fruit or vegetable I liked was kiwis. What did I get from my parents trying to force me to eat iceberg lettuce? A lifelong aversion to iceberg lettuce! I haven't eaten iceberg (any other kind of lettuce, oh yes) in fifteen years. I gag LOOKING at iceberg. Which is fine since it's nutritionally void anyway, but what if my parents had tried that with something actually worth eating?

All my FAVORITE vegetables are vegetables my mother couldn't stand (because her own parents made HER eat them until she puked), so they were never served at our house. I didn't pick up an aversion to squash, asparagus, brussels sprouts, beets, okra, chard, spinach, or any of the dozens of other vegetables I enjoy at every meal.

I liked all kinds of foods as a kid that I think are nasty now, and vice versa. It had precisely nothing to do with the Food Wars and everything to do with just getting older and having my palate change.

This is pretty common, actually. Kids have about twice as many tastebuds as adults do, so they may pick up on more subtle flavors. I used to hate broccoli and similarly strongly flavored veggies as a kid, but I love them now. I'd say that was the rule rather than the exception.

[Koala]

In fairness to my children, who are all wonderful, but independent people and independent thinkers, I think is unfair to plaster their names all over the Forum. If you need to talk about them lease refer to them as daughter 1 or daughter 2, unless of course your desire to protect other women, does not apply to them.

Thanks!

You almost immediately followed this quote with the following:

Alyssa and I had regular ice cream together many nights and both daughters talked to me about their feelings and issues and we worked though them in a loving and caring way.

This leads me back to my point that not only are you inconsistent (often contradicting yourself and in this case your own wishes), neither you nor Lori seem to grasp that the words you put on the internet have both weight and permanence. You don't get to type out a story and then declare it in the past and therefore exempt from discussion. You don't get to make a heartfelt plea, and then immediately do what you have pleaded for others not to do- well, I guess you can do it, but you don't appear very sincere if you do.

[lizziesmom]

I am constantly amazed at those who put their views out on the internet for all the world to see and then get defensive and downright hostile when people disagree with or criticize their product. Ken -- If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.

[latraviata]

Thank you. It is not easy, because Lori started out just wanting a fun hobby and a way of sharing her journey. She has enjoyed the family on her blog and has no desire to hurt or harm anyone. I am a supportive husband and do see the ministry she has which is powerful. I would not be here on this Forum if I did not feel that the best way to continue to grow in life as a person, professional and spiritually, is to speak to your critics. It is not easy hearing other people's perceptions and thoughts, and I am not about to give up my fundamental beliefs in the power of God's Word and what it teaches, but I hate the idea that what we teach and say comes across as unloving or "darn right Christians": the Bible told me so. I have worked hard in my professional life as a consultant to overcome the perception as "darn right" but I have not yet figured out how to do this on the spiritual side of things. I am making baby steps in this area of my life, but this is perhaps my next major area of necessary change, for me. I cannot speak for Lori, but things do tend to rub off in a close marriage.

This is really disturbing. Advising to spank children from a very age on? Advising women to stay and submit to their abusive husbands. Are you insane? Fun hobby for wifey?

I can't see the fun in her appalling and unhealthy advice regarding child rearing and marital problems. Is it so much fun to beat up a tiny toddler and spank harder when it doesn't have any affect or making a torture of every meal because it prevents picky eaters. Oh joy I am my husband's godly doormat. How for the love of sanity she feels so compelled to provide advice to others? Is she authorised? I am authorised and I am most certainly not giving any advice on the internet to random readers of a (my) blog

Oh right she does it for fun.

Stop denying and downplay what has been written, we all read it. Try to honestly answer Koala's legitimate questions for a start, you are the headship, man up!

What are you exactly complaining and whining about? Your wife has chosen to display her 'profundities' without any restraint and without any embarrassment on her blog for everyone to read. You are really surprised people respond to that? You and your wife feel untouchable because the messages she broadcasts are so christian and godly, one can't possibly criticise so much wisdom and devoutness.

I am glad I am an atheist.