Maxwell Corner: Stay at home adult daughters

[sparkles]

I also think they'd be okay in the real world. The Maxwell women are neither unintelligent nor uneducated, it's just that the education they did receive is incredibly limited and narrowly focused. They certainly have a good work ethic (although it remains to be seen if that's just the result of constant monitoring and scheduling) and I don't doubt that they have the capacity to learn and learn quickly. I don't think they'd be limited to menial/fast food type jobs either. They're not bad looking (not a skill but it still does count in today's job market), they have helped run a successful business, and notwithstanding the snarking about what stellar conversationalists they all are (and minus the religious component), they do seem to be able to handle themselves with a variety of people. We (and I'm using we VERY generally) tend to dismiss a lot of fundies with a broad stroke by saying they'd never make it in the real world, that they don't have the skills or talents (Josh Duggar comes to mind), but we really don't know what they're capable of achieving, given the opportunity, the education, the skills and a bit of mentoring. Many of them are really an unknown quantity and I wouldn't count any of them out.

[kpmom]

They've been brought up to believe that they need protection, though. Could they really get over that idea enough to go get a job outside the home if they had to?

[ILoveJellybeans]

Yeah, I think the main thing getting in the way of them being able to cope in the real world if the parents die isn't their intelligence, but more their lack of social skills and fear and paranoia about the world.

[Cleopatra7]

Link please? I'm always interested in frumkeit.

Here's a representative post:

haemtza.blogspot.com/2013/01/the-impact-of-tznius-on-shiddach-crisis.html

You can also google "shidduch crisis" and get a lot of hits.

[twin2]

Eh, I'm going to go against the hive mind and say that those girls could definitely get menial jobs. While they don't have any experience, most low-paying jobs are still meant for people with no skill in that area, meaning that they train everyone, even people who have college degrees. They don't expect anyone to show up at Starbucks (I manage a cafe location) knowing how to work at Starbucks- even people returning to the workforce and people with post-graduate degrees are trained for several weeks, and there's nothing that those girls aren't capable of learning how to do. It's not the easiest job, but their life doesn't exactly seem easy to me as it stands. While it doesn't pay very well, there are certainly a lot of people living off those wages currently, and if there's three of them sharing expenses in one house it would be absolutely fine. If I met them and informed them that the work was dirty, tough, and they would be on their feet a lot and they seemed ready and willing to try I would absolutely hire them with no work experience- I am often encouraged to hire people with little to no work experience (which is why Starbucks allows high schoolers to work in their locations). I only look for people with knowledge of the job when I'm understaffed and need someone who can pick things up easily, otherwise I am allowed labor and time to train people from the beginning.

Is it ideal? Absolutely not. Did they deserve a chance to decide if that's what they wanted? Absolutely. Are they going to be homeless and penniless when their parents die? I really, really don't think so.

It is not that they are uneducated or unskilled or would not have the capability to do different jobs, it is that they have been so sheltered, that most likely they would be too uncomfortable to have to interact with worldy people. They have been so sheltered, they wouldn't be able to cope. Maybe if they did something like house cleaning, but they would have to go into business for themselves, since most likely they would not know how to deal with a boss, and even then they would have to obtain and interact with clients.

[latraviata]

It is not that they are uneducated or unskilled or would not have the capability to do different jobs, it is that they have been so sheltered, that most likely they would be too uncomfortable to have to interact with worldy people. They have been so sheltered, they wouldn't be able to cope. Maybe if they did something like house cleaning, but they would have to go into business for themselves, since most likely they would not know how to deal with a boss, and even then they would have to obtain and interact with clients.

There is a nice German word for it: Weltfremd...

[Mama Mia]

I think they could probably get jobs, but I think if their parents want to have them live at home and not work outside the home well into adulthood the only responsible thing would be to carry sufficient life insurance to cover their expenses long term.

When my kids were young I had term life insurance that would of helped provide for them until they were all adults. I didn't renew it the year my youngest turned 20 , because they were all to a point where they could at least get by if I dropped dead, not completely financially stable, but close enough.

When the Maxwell parents pass away they very well could have a 50 year old daughter who has never held a job outside the home, presumably hasn't paid into social security ( except she writes books? So maybe something has gone to taxes? ), and will be basically in the same position as your average 19 year old.

[Lillybee]

I think that Home Health Aide would be the perfect job for the Maxwell women. Most of those jobs involve working with the "elderly". They would be doing mostly cleaning, cooking and making sure their clients took their meds. It is not a nursing job.

[uber frau]

And how would they cope when 'the elderly' aren't as quiet and passive as they've been lead to expect? As a fundie teen I worked in a fundie nursing home. I had to deal with old men losing their inhibitions and grabbing by boobs and my arse or masturbating in the hallway, I had to deal with residents having paranoid delusions and flashbacks of some pretty traumatic life events and most importantly, I spent a good deal of my day showering and toileting. That's an awful lot of nakedness. If Christopher was talked out of becoming a paramedic because it would involve working with ppl of the opposite sex and having to see a boob or genitals on occasion, I can't see nursing home work being any more acceptable.

And that presumes they're working with residents who are too far gone to be able to articulate unacceptable ideas. Old ppl can be pretty opinionated and *gasp*, maybe even intelligent and subversive.

[Jana814]

When the Maxwell parents pass away they very well could have a 50 year old daughter who has never held a job outside the home, presumably hasn't paid into social security ( except she writes books? So maybe something has gone to taxes? ), and will be basically in the same position as your average 19 year old.

Wow never thought of that. But I have to agree w/ u.

[Jana814]

I think that Home Health Aide would be the perfect job for the Maxwell women. Most of those jobs involve working with the "elderly". They would be doing mostly cleaning, cooking and making sure their clients took their meds. It is not a nursing job.

Maybe the place where they have church would hire them.

[YPestis]

I also think they'd be okay in the real world. The Maxwell women are neither unintelligent nor uneducated, it's just that the education they did receive is incredibly limited and narrowly focused. They certainly have a good work ethic (although it remains to be seen if that's just the result of constant monitoring and scheduling) and I don't doubt that they have the capacity to learn and learn quickly. I don't think they'd be limited to menial/fast food type jobs either. They're not bad looking (not a skill but it still does count in today's job market), they have helped run a successful business, and notwithstanding the snarking about what stellar conversationalists they all are (and minus the religious component), they do seem to be able to handle themselves with a variety of people. We (and I'm using we VERY generally) tend to dismiss a lot of fundies with a broad stroke by saying they'd never make it in the real world, that they don't have the skills or talents (Josh Duggar comes to mind), but we really don't know what they're capable of achieving, given the opportunity, the education, the skills and a bit of mentoring. Many of them are really an unknown quantity and I wouldn't count any of them out.

I don't think anyone's doubting the Maxwells' intelligence and even their lack of education would be no obstacle for low paying, menial jobs. It's their fear of the outside world and that lack of strict control in their lives that would ultimately make getting and keeping a job difficult. Even a simple waitressing job requires interacting with people who are so very different. Can you imagine them serving a gay couple? A nonChristian family? A tableful of bachelorettes who brought their penis straws?!

As for running their own business. I don't know if any of the younger Maxwell kids, or the Maxwell girls has the skills and initiative to start their own business without Steve guiding them. The children are so tightly controlled. Everything they do is directed by someone else. Every piece of information is given to them by Dad. I can't imagine a Maxwell girl striking out on her own, researching and planning a business.

The insurance thing has been discussed. The biggest issue I see is that money needed to grow old with is more expensive than money to grow up with. Children typically have few medical expenses. Orphaned children can be expected to grow up and get a job. A 50 year old SAHD who's never worked is far less employable, and will now need money for the next 30 years that can cover not only living expenses, but also medical costs. It's expensive to grow old these days.

No, I foresee the unmarried Maxwell girls living with the brothers, and surviving on the remnants of their parents' insurance policies and the house they will inherit. SAHD has no place in the fundie world. The entire fundie structure was designed with the idea that every woman will get married. Unmarried women are a sign of the system going wrong. And the Maxwells are the ultimate example of a family gone wrong.

[Vex]

That was a vile pile of sly, narcissistic utter bullshit. Those girls have no ability to be anything less than 100% content with their lot in life. Steve will allow nothing less.

[ThatSnark]

There's a business in a small town near here that's run by a group of adult siblings who were fundie homeschoolers and are now unmarried adults. It's one of those pack-and-ship places with mailboxes for rent. The Maxwells could possibly open up something like that with their shipping experience, and get the word out to churches that they're a Christian organization. This shop is full of Christian stuff, so a fundie would be very comfortable taking his/her business there.

Beyond that sort of thing? Not much.

[skankbiscuit]

I can see the girls being nannies/housekeepers for a wealthy Christian family. They would be amazing, I'm sure. And they could live under the "protection" of the Lord of the house. :roll:

[docmom]

I think that Home Health Aide would be the perfect job for the Maxwell women. Most of those jobs involve working with the "elderly". They would be doing mostly cleaning, cooking and making sure their clients took their meds. It is not a nursing job.

In many states being a HHA requires certification. A typical HHA course:

Get all the classroom education and clinical skills training you need

This program will provide the education and hands-on training you need to qualify for your Home Health Aide Certificate.

Hours are from 8 a.m. to 4:30 p.m. Monday – Friday

Daily attendance & punctuality are required

Homework will take 1-2 hours each day

Optional review classes are available to help you master the content and earn your Certificate

To successfully complete the program, you must score 75% or higher on a series of quizzes and the final written test.

Find out how to qualify

To apply for our Home Health Aide Training program, you need:

Preferred education: a high school diploma or General Equivalency Diploma (GED), ability to read, write, and speak English and ability to follow verbal and written instruction

Preferred experience: one or two years of a positive work history

Required certification/licensure: a clean, valid drivers license (no major violations within the last 5 years) and/or reliable transportation

Physical demands: ability to lift up to 40 pounds unassisted (over 40 pounds with a lifting device or other assistance)

I'm not sure they'd qualify and it is a very hard job- not ideal for an over-50 never worked before type. This is a major problem with the homeschool, no college approach. Most real jobs nowadays actually require some form of certification...

[Burpies]

From my own observations, the men who make the most noise about "protecting" their daughters and keeping them "safe" are protecting them from other men just like themselves.

The more predatory a man has been toward women, the more casual a user he has been of women as sex toys, the more women he's lied to or intimidated in order to get sex from them, the more aggressive he'll be about keeping his daughter "safe." Men like that tend to assume all other men are just as callous and contemptuous of women as they are, and that they would use his daughter (his property) with as little respect. And, of course, they think back to all the women they've used, think of them as stupid and/or slutty, and can't stand the idea of their little girl (their property) in that role. So they'll tend to be very strict with their daughters about clothing and curfews and where they can go and what they can do, and they'll play intimidation games with their boyfriends.

So I look at the patriarchalists, and how they insist they must protect their daughters, and I think, "Yeah, I know what's going through your mind when you look at other men's daughters, and what you'd like to do to them. And I'll wager you've already done your share of it." I look at Steve Maxwell, and you can't tell me he wasn't a naughty, naughty boy while stationed in Thailand. All that "protection" of his daughters? He's protecting them from men who are exactly as callous and sexually predatory as himself. And since he's a narcissist (as so many of these patriarchalists are), he can't fathom that not all men are like him. He also doesn't trust his daughters not to fall for men just like him, who will use them just as he once, very likely, used other women.

And what's fucked up is that this is exactly what will prob happen if his daughters ever went out in the big wide world on their own b/c they don't have any savvy and will be attracted to a 'protector' just like daddy.

[kpmom]

And how would they cope when 'the elderly' aren't as quiet and passive as they've been lead to expect? As a fundie teen I worked in a fundie nursing home. I had to deal with old men losing their inhibitions and grabbing by boobs and my arse or masturbating in the hallway, I had to deal with residents having paranoid delusions and flashbacks of some pretty traumatic life events and most importantly, I spent a good deal of my day showering and toileting. That's an awful lot of nakedness. If Christopher was talked out of becoming a paramedic because it would involve working with ppl of the opposite sex and having to see a boob or genitals on occasion, I can't see nursing home work being any more acceptable.

And that presumes they're working with residents who are too far gone to be able to articulate unacceptable ideas. Old ppl can be pretty opinionated and *gasp*, maybe even intelligent and subversive.

What??? You mean not every elderly person is sweet? But the Maxwells say they are so it must be true.

[twin2]

I can see the girls being nannies/housekeepers for a wealthy Christian family. They would be amazing, I'm sure. And they could live under the "protection" of the Lord of the house. :roll:

This is their destiny, just not for a wealthy Christian family, it will be for their married brothers.

[theologygeek]

I also think they'd be okay in the real world. The Maxwell women are neither unintelligent nor uneducated, it's just that the education they did receive is incredibly limited and narrowly focused. They certainly have a good work ethic (although it remains to be seen if that's just the result of constant monitoring and scheduling) and I don't doubt that they have the capacity to learn and learn quickly. I don't think they'd be limited to menial/fast food type jobs either. They're not bad looking (not a skill but it still does count in today's job market), they have helped run a successful business, and notwithstanding the snarking about what stellar conversationalists they all are (and minus the religious component), they do seem to be able to handle themselves with a variety of people. We (and I'm using we VERY generally) tend to dismiss a lot of fundies with a broad stroke by saying they'd never make it in the real world, that they don't have the skills or talents (Josh Duggar comes to mind), but we really don't know what they're capable of achieving, given the opportunity, the education, the skills and a bit of mentoring. Many of them are really an unknown quantity and I wouldn't count any of them out.

None of that makes a bit of difference if they can't cope with the outside world. Those girls have got to be all kinds of screwed up in the head. Yesterday I was in the bank. I was the only customer in the bank at the time and the atmosphere was laid back and mellow. I also know everyone in there so the tellers were relaxed and conversing. The tellers were discussing where they should get take out for lunch. One of the tellers said "You know that I have to pick up the food. I won't eat it unless I can see them putting it in the containers." The other tellers were teasing her and the one with the issue said "Hey we all have issues that our mothers gave us. My mother would not eat food unless she saw it going in the dish." The other tellers shook their heads in agreement and we all shared our issues that our mothers put on us. Now multiply that by 7 days a week, 24 hours a day, and you have the Maxwell daughters. It would be a miracle if they weren't paralyzed with paranoia and neurosis.

[sparkles]

I think there are two questions at play here and I probably wasn't very clear in my post. The first, that was brought up in this thread and in the previous thread about the same Corner, is COULD the Maxwell daughters make it in the real world with the skills and training they currently have. And yes, I do think they COULD. They have skills that are easily translatable to secular working world, skills that at least put them on par with many of their non-fundie peers (some of the resumes I received when I was helping my boss hire a co-worker--people who were supposedly well-educated and trained in graphic design--made me want to cry). I don't think the fact that they're not college educated would hold them back. Yes, college is important, but not every job requires a college education (and I think we're going to see a seismic shift in the coming years as to how we approach higher education as it relates to job training.) So if they were able to adjust to life on the "outside," I think they'd do fine. But that's a big IF and it leads into the second question--WOULD they and COULD they withstand the culture shock and life outside the highly controlled compound. And my answer to that is NO. At least not unless they rejected anything and everything they've ever known, including family members who remained in the cult, and that seems about as likely as pigs flying. They've been way too isolated and indoctrinated and I can't see it ever happening, even though Steve keeps saying they have the "choice" to live their lives as they see fit. (Uh huh. And what are the consequences should they chose to reject your teachings, Steve? What have you threatened them with that leaves them with no real choice whatsoever?) So the Maxwell girls--and they will ALWAYS be girls as far as I'm concerned--will continue to live inside the bubble, serving the patriarch until he kicks and then their married brothers until they get married off to any available male as a matter of convenience to get them off the brothers' hands.

[Justme]

It's possible, too, the "girls" may marry later in life after Steve has passed. Sarah, in her mid-50's, may marry a widower with older "children" at home who has no idea how to run a household. Not a "love" match, but a marriage of convenience. There could be caring, respect, and kindness towards each other. But not the deep passionate love young adults generally feel upon marriage. (KWIM??)

I'm sure many of us have family members who became widows/widowers after long loving marriages, who have remarried in their golden years. This type of marriage is often very different from those of our youth.

[mirele]

I don't know if the Maxwell daughters could be home health aides. Our family hired one this week and she is very competent but she's also able to deal well with my father, who has advanced Alzsheimer's. I just can't see a Maxwell daughter dealing well with my dad, not because he's inappropriate, but because when he starts talking, he's sometimes back in the 1970s and they just don't have the experience to separate out fact from fantasy.

[singsingsing]

No way could they be home health aids. They're far too delicate, and I don't mean physically.

I think finding jobs they could support themselves with would be difficult. In my job search my biggest obstacle has been my lack of work experience, and I have far more work and volunteer experience than the Maxwells daughters do. If something were to happen and Sarah had to get a job sometime down the road, one of the main things employers would want to know is why a woman in her 30s or 40s has never worked at all.

[twin2]

The Maxwell ladies will never work for anyone's business outside their family's PERIOD.

Now, they could go to work for their brothers themselves, they do have options, but they are going to be very, very limited as they will most likely severely limit their clientele to Good Christian Families™ in need of a nanny are going to be few and far between. Any Titus2 woman worth her weight in rubies will be able to manage her own home, thankyouverymuch! and any Titus2 headship worth leading his family is not going to waste money on something the bible tells him his helpmeet should be doing. So that leads secular families. Forget it. What happens at 2:30 when little Johnny has his daily allotment of "Jake and the Neverland Pirates?" Or when little Gretchen asks to be read some fairy tales? Or when 11-year Madison refuses to do the dishes? The only thing Sarah is going to know what to do is quote bible verses at them and ask them if they know where she will go when they die, commence firing.

3) Cleaning business - Most plausible of the 3 options since they will not have to interact with people when the work, but still depends on how they limit their clientele. Cleaning other peoples homes and businesses, who knows what kinds of sinful things they would find! Temptation would be too great.

Let's face it, when Steve and Terrie kick the bucket, most likely one of the boys will move into Chez Maxwell with this brood (even if it is in the girls names) and whatever Maxwell ladies are left (and I suspect it will be all three) will go on to live and serve their brothers in exchange for food, board and a small stipend to spend on gifts, just like now.